Lovecraft vs. Warhammer!

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Which pantheon of cosmic entities/deities reigns supreme?

I'm rooting for a Nyarlathotep-Cthulhu tag team to tentacle-whip the shit out of the Chaos Gods. Except maybe Tzeentch. He is a magnificent scheming bastard.

Whoever wins, you lose, mortals!!

Team Cthulhu all the way

Cthulhu gets hit by a boat and is stunned, I'd love to see what would happen when Khorne pimp smacks him.
I see all the Great Old Ones getting manhandled by all the Chaos Gods and C'tan. Hell I'd think a few Bloodthirsters could do the job. The Outer Gods on the other hand, I'm not so sure.

MammothBlade:
Whoever wins, you lose, mortals!!

But we can just worship a Chaos god if they win, no?

I'd like to see an Old One in a scrap with a couple of primarchs. "I will destroy the... I will destroy... Oh for fucks sake Guilliman, give me back my tentacles!"

"Russ, why aren't you being driven insane?"
"I'm a wolfman from a death world, I don't think I can get any more mental."

Isn't there a guy in the Lovecraft universe that will end the universe if he ever becomes aware of it? That pretty much trumps everything.

Cthulu is relatively weak when compared to Lovecraft's Outer Gods Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth.

Look at this artist's interpretation of Azathoth.
image

When I look at this, I imagine him as unfathomably immense. At the center of all infinity.

dyre:
Isn't there a guy in the Lovecraft universe that will end the universe if he ever becomes aware of it? That pretty much trumps everything.

That would be Azathoth, the blind, gibbering idiot god at the center of all creation.

Really, that's the advantage the Lovecraft's creations have over Warhammer's. Warhammer's "gods" are actually rather underpowered. For something so omnipotent, they really don't do a lot of omnipoting. I cite as proof of this the fact that Holy Terra has yet to explode. The Chaos Cultists are really just equivalent to the Star Spawn, who are lightweights by the standards of Lovecraft's racism-fueled imagination. If Azathoth, or even just Yog-Sothoth managed to manifest fully, then the game is over; everything is either dead or betentacled.

Ok, the warhammer chaos gods could probably beat Cthulu without too much trouble...

But Azatoth? No way man...No way. As far as I'm aware, his attack ranges from "Destroy the very fabric of the universe and plunge everything into nothingness" to "Destroy the very fabric of the universe and plunge everything into nothingness" with no room in between...

There are loads of little easter eggs in the Black Library books and the lore relating to the Mythos. The entire Necron back story for example is very similer to the story told in the version of the play King in Yellow in the story More Light. There's a nice reference to the Emperor being the Lama of Leng in Tales of Heresy. There's even a really blatent reference in Thousand Sons stating that the thousand son's holiest book is the Necronomicon (they've got a statue of Al Hazred in the capitals plaza, also Ahriman also makes a show of saving books from the libray that have the names of some Mythos famed books).

PaganAxe:
Cthulu is relatively weak when compared to Lovecraft's Outer Gods Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth.

Look at this artist's interpretation of Azathoth.
image

When I look at this, I imagine him as unfathomably immense. At the center of all infinity.

Wow, that's pretty amazing. Do you know where I can find more of this artist's works?

PaganAxe:
Cthulu is relatively weak when compared to Lovecraft's Outer Gods Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth.

Look at this artist's interpretation of Azathoth.
image

When I look at this, I imagine him as unfathomably immense. At the center of all infinity.

Why, yes, isn't it a beauty? I personally like this picture of Shub-Niggurath more, but Azathoth is not without its merits.

image

That forest down there? With the fleshy nightmarish tree thingies? And that small stone circle among them? The black specks there would be people. Welcome to Lovecraftland. My money goes on the things that are more powerful than the Chaos gods, while not being actual gods. And, no Cthulhu isn't really that powerful. Nyarlathotep loves messing with people but I don't know if ol' Crawling Chaos there

can beat some of the WH40K thingies. I'm betting it can. Or at least would mess with them. He is very Deceiver-ish, as far as I'm aware.

Deathleaper:

MammothBlade:
Whoever wins, you lose, mortals!!

But we can just worship a Chaos god if they win, no?

As a mortal, you have a very interesting definition of "not losing".

Threads like these that make me want to read up on both Lovecraft and Warhammer Lore...except, it's so vast I don't have a fucking clue where to begin.

imahobbit4062:
Threads like these that make me want to read up on both Lovecraft and Warhammer Lore...except, it's so vast I don't have a fucking clue where to begin.

While the Cthuhlu Mythos is vast Lovecraft's work in it isn't that large. I'd read Call of Cthuhlu first and Shadow over Innsmouth next if i could redo it

(Idk how this happened but sorry about it all the same)

from the old rpg. even if you nuke cthulhu he will just reform later on

I don't think we can really have a contest between these 2 entities. The Chaos gods can't ever really manifest in the material universe and only ever work through intermediaries, which is also where they draw their power from. The only way to destroy the Chaos gods would be to either kill every living thing in the material universe, or enter the warp directly, at which point you'd be outnumbered by an infinite amount of deamons. Any battle fought in the warp would also involve immense psychic power and would probably be completely incomprehensible to mere mortals.

Admittedly though I don't know a lot about the Lovecraft horros and their powers, so I can't say how much psychic power they have.

While he is dead, I'm fairly certain hitting H.P. Lovecraft in the head with a warhammer would have killed him while he was alive.

Hard to say in a god v god slobberknocker since most of them don't have clearly defined attributes or powers.

So instead I'll look at their followers.

A handful of raving cultists vs an entire legion of planet destroying Chaos Marines.

Hell you could even narrow it down to just The Emperor's Children and I'd still put my money on them.

It's already been said but, yeah, Azathoth. If anything tried to kill him; "oh, you exist? not anymore you don't"

Imthatguy19:

imahobbit4062:
Threads like these that make me want to read up on both Lovecraft and Warhammer Lore...except, it's so vast I don't have a fucking clue where to begin.

While the Cthuhlu Mythos is vast Lovecraft's work in it isn't that large. I'd read Call of Cthuhlu first and Shadow over Innsmouth next if i could redo it

Personally I think you should start with Lovecraft's earlier works, the stuff that only mentions the elder gods before they were bound into a true continuity, ie most of the stuff pre-Dunwich Horror; I would recommend the Nameless City, its one of my favourites. However if you're wanting to delve right into the middle of the Mythos, Thatguy19 is right(a word of warning though, Call of Cthuhlu is my least favourite, and almost ruined Cthuhlu for me, if I could redo it I would leave that one for later.) The first Lovecraft I read was The Doom That Came to Sarnath and I loved it, but it's got nothing to do with any of the central pantheon.

Warhammer and 40K are based partially in Lovecraftian/Cthulhu mythos.

imahobbit4062:
Threads like these that make me want to read up on both Lovecraft and Warhammer Lore...except, it's so vast I don't have a fucking clue where to begin.

Well for 40k the codices and novels are the best place for lore, particularly the codices for Necrons and Eldar, but being GW they cost a bomb soooo... Lexicanum online might be your best bet. Read the pages on the Fall of the Eldar, The Old Gods and The Emperor and you'll have a handle on the more important people in the universe.

nasteypenguin:
It's already been said but, yeah, Azathoth. If anything tried to kill him; "oh, you exist? not anymore you don't"

Imthatguy19:

imahobbit4062:
Threads like these that make me want to read up on both Lovecraft and Warhammer Lore...except, it's so vast I don't have a fucking clue where to begin.

While the Cthuhlu Mythos is vast Lovecraft's work in it isn't that large. I'd read Call of Cthuhlu first and Shadow over Innsmouth next if i could redo it

Personally I think you should start with Lovecraft's earlier works, the stuff that only mentions the elder gods before they were bound into a true continuity, ie most of the stuff pre-Dunwich Horror; I would recommend the Nameless City, its one of my favourites. However if you're wanting to delve right into the middle of the Mythos, Thatguy19 is right(a word of warning though, Call of Cthuhlu is my least favourite, and almost ruined Cthuhlu for me, if I could redo it I would leave that one for later.) The first Lovecraft I read was The Doom That Came to Sarnath and I loved it, but it's got nothing to do with any of the central pantheon.

Also as a word of caution avoid August Derleth's writings he may of been essential to Lovecraft gaining recognition but his take on the mythos is rather 'flawed'.

a webcomic already did a crossover of 40k and lovecraft here.
http://www.goominet.com/unspeakable-vault/vault/341/

"edit" i mostly wanted to get this link in here

imahobbit4062:
Threads like these that make me want to read up on both Lovecraft and Warhammer Lore...except, it's so vast I don't have a fucking clue where to begin.

Buy a Lovecraft book. That's a good start. They have pretty good story collections. Just any, I suppose, most are a collection of stories, more often than not related. Or maybe there is a the whole Cthulhu mythos contained in several books somewhere. At any rate, there isn't a start or an end to Lovecraft's works - they are just some stories that are only connected through the setting and sometimes through common names referenced. Some stories even contradict or misrepresent facts from others. It's rather fitting though, knowledge of some beings can shatter the minds of mortals. A lot of stories are told from the point of view of a character who is relaying their experience with the forbidden knowledge, as such they are already either insane or on the brink.

Hawk of Battle:
I don't think we can really have a contest between these 2 entities. The Chaos gods can't ever really manifest in the material universe and only ever work through intermediaries, which is also where they draw their power from. The only way to destroy the Chaos gods would be to either kill every living thing in the material universe, or enter the warp directly, at which point you'd be outnumbered by an infinite amount of deamons. Any battle fought in the warp would also involve immense psychic power and would probably be completely incomprehensible to mere mortals.

Admittedly though I don't know a lot about the Lovecraft horros and their powers, so I can't say how much psychic power they have.

See, this is the problem, the Chaos gods need their servants and followers. The Lovecraftian horrors don't. They aren't gods as much as aliens so powerful that humans don't even fit on their power scale and are below their attention. And we are. Few of the Lovecraftian abominations are even concerned with humanity, much less malicious or evil. Their thought process and morality are incomprehensible to people. We are but ants compared to them, maybe even less than that.

Lovecraftian beings don't need followers. Perhaps they don't even want them in the first place. They cannot even be reasonably confronted, much less "killed" by us. Unlike Chaos gods that can only be directly influenced in the Warp, the Lovecraftian "gods" simply cannot - they exist in more layers of reality than we, humans, can actually comprehend or access. Also, anything that can be called a god will most likely destroy every human being that came close to it. Without conscious effort or even without noticing. Much like you might not noticing stepping on an ant. When Cthulhu awoke only briefly, at least a quarter of the planet felt it - nightmares, shaken mental health and other manners of strange things. And that was only for its brief waking period, it wasn't fully awoken or active. And Cthulhu isn't considered a god. It isn't as powerful or important as some of the other beings out there.

I tend to go with original material. Since most writers who do "dark gods of the universe from another dimension who will reign supreme when the stars are right" stuff are ripping off Lovecraft to do it, I hold that any cheap copies of Lovecraftian horrors are not, in fact, as good as the real thing.

Yes, I'm aware Lovecraft in turn was probably ripping off some ancient Eastern mythology no one but an enthusiast or superstitious native would know about today. Point stands.

Chaos would just twist the LC Gods around their little fingers or use them as pawns for some messed up end game.

True story.

imahobbit4062:
Threads like these that make me want to read up on both Lovecraft and Warhammer Lore...except, it's so vast I don't have a fucking clue where to begin.

I'll sum it up:
tzneetch:likes manipulating people
slaneesh:biggest snuff fan in the history of the universe
nurgle:the grandfather every single pathogen
khorne:likes to kill things

cthulu and friends:unspeakable horror

Aren't we forgetting Michael Moorcock and the Elric universe, the one which sparked inspiration for Dungeons and Dragons and the Warhammer universes?

Arioch: the one who pulls all the strings.

Team Chtluhlu (or wtf it's spelling is)

Biodeamon:

I'll sum it up:
tzneetch:likes manipulating people
slaneesh:biggest snuff fan in the history of the universe
nurgle:the grandfather every single pathogen
khorne:likes to kill things

cthulu and friends:unspeakable horror

fun fact about Khrone

he actually has an 'honor code' .... don't look at me like that its true ....
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khorne#.T34dGtU-ZUY

Khorne is said to have inherited a martial nobility and honour, and considers the weak and helpless to be unworthy of his wrath.

MammothBlade:

PaganAxe:
Cthulu is relatively weak when compared to Lovecraft's Outer Gods Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth.

Look at this artist's interpretation of Azathoth.
image

When I look at this, I imagine him as unfathomably immense. At the center of all infinity.

Wow, that's pretty amazing. Do you know where I can find more of this artist's works?

It was on some guy's deviantArt. Unfortunately, he deactivated his account.

The Chaos Gods would likely walk over the majority of Lovecrafts Deities.... But Azathoth.

I dunno.

I still say tzeetch win no mater what

40k stuff works on a (supposedly) galactic scale, Lovecraft mostly on a planetary scale.

Cthullu would be the equivalent of a daemon prince, I'd say, and they are nasty, but 40k has lots of them.

On the other hand, even in Lovecraft's work, Cthullu is a celebrity more than a monster, it gets named dropped lots of times, but rarely actually harms anyone.

Now we're talking. Enough with the "gee, I wonder who would win, harby and the starchild or FUCKING CHAOS."

...

My money's on Team Mythos. As mentioned, Lovecraft had quite the prolific racism-fueled imagination. Here's a description of Yog-Sothoth:

It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self - not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence's whole unbounded sweep - the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH, and which has been a deity under other names; that which the crustaceans of Yuggoth worship as the Beyond-One, and which the vaporous brains of the spiral nebulae know by an untranslatable Sign...

I mean, how do you fight that?

Off topic: is Tzeentch Nyarlathotep, or is Nyarlathotep Tzeentch?

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