Can we talk about the "friend zone" and "nice guys" for a moment?

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Since this is a predominantly male community, I figured talking about this here would result in the most interesting feedback. And I suppose I'm in the mood for a little controversy.

So you become friends with a female, and you really like her in that way. You spend time with her, you're kind to her, and you're always doing her favors. Eventually you pluck up the courage to confess your attraction and then GASP! she doesn't like you that way, and wants to stay friends! So now you go to all your buddies and cry that you were "friend zoned". Oh my goodness how dare that biotch not have any romantic feelings towards you!! You weren't a jerk to her so you were entitled to a relationship with her! And since your plans to get a little action were in vain, you cease being friends with the girl. And now the girl is left without a friend, and the knowledge that you were only friends with her in hopes of getting in her pants.

Do you realize how ridiculous whining about being "friend zoned" is? And that if you really wanna be a nice guy, that you should be nice to girls even if you don't want in their pants?

Also, when a girl says "I wish I could find a guy like you" but they don't want you, think of it this way: (stealing the metaphor from a friend of mine) Say you are out shopping and you want to buy a red pair of shoes. You get to the shoe store and find a nice pair of red shoes, but that particular pair of shoes isn't exactly suited to your taste so you continue looking and maybe you end up getting a pair of shoes completely different to what you were originally looking for. So when a girl says, "I wish I could find a guy like you" it means she likes your qualities, but isn't attracted to you. This does not make her a hypocrite, or a bitch. So please stop whining and making yourselves out to be a victim of some heinous crime because the girl you like doesn't like you.

Sorry for the little rant, I've just seen too many "friend zone" related memes and rage comics recently. 0___0

*Bows*
MASTER YOU HAVE RISEN!
Seriously- Listen to her.

Except for that part "I wish I could find someone like you"
You're like you. It's just stupid to say that on her part. It doesn't make her a bitch or anything, but it does mean she probably missed one of the social reasoning boats.

But seriously, Just because a girl doesn't like you that, it doesn't mean that it's because you're friends. It's simply because there is a true underlying reason to why she doesn't like you. Move on, and if you do want to be the nice guy- STAY FRIENDS WITH THEM Even after they said they only want friendship! You're no good guy greg if you just bail when you find out you can't bang her!
You'd probably have a more adequate social life that way, too.
image

Captcha: Public good-
Exactly what this thread is.

If people (male and female) would make their intentions and desires clear up front, we wouldn't have this issue. When people (male and female) play games, people (male and female) get hurt/angry/etc.

I've known enough people (male and female) to know that generally, interest is there (or not) from the beginning. It's been very rare that I've seen the typical romcom "just realized what was right in front of my face, now I'm crazy in love" trope play out in real life. People (male and female) certainly shouldn't count on that happening.

*sighs*

Of course, people will most likely continue to play games regardless of my advice and then get hurt or mad when things don't turn out the way they want them to. C'est la guerre.

Don't think I've ever heard the PARTICULAR argument that someone felt like they were owed or deserved a relationship with a girl just because they were nice or whatever to a girl. But I can at least understand being frustrated or disheartened by being turned down by a girl you like, or that you feel like you connect with.

I was in a situation with a girl I knew once where I was more like her "rebound guy" every time she broke with her new boyfriend. She'd meet a new guy somewhere and her whole life would be all about her knew relationship, I wouldn't hear from her from her for sometimes months, then something would happen and they'd break up and all of a sudden she'd show back up again and she's suddenly in love with me now. This quite literally went on for years. All through high school and on through college while we weren't even in the same school anymore.

Personally, I think this is a much more frustrating situation than just "WHY WON'T SHE GO OUT WITH ME?! I'M NICE TO HER ALL THE TIME!" I've actually seen girls where I'm from take advantage of the "friend zone" excuse quite a bit back in high school. Especially on things like school trips or functions. But I'll also say people will also make themselves out as the victim in any story they tell.

requisitename:
If people (male and female) would make their intentions and desires clear up front, we wouldn't have this issue. When people (male and female) play games, people (male and female) get hurt/angry/etc.

I've known enough people (male and female) to know that generally, interest is there (or not) from the beginning. It's been very rare that I've seen the typical romcom "just realized what was right in front of my face, now I'm crazy in love" trope play out in real life. People (male and female) certainly shouldn't count on that happening.

This is funny to me because I can count five times this has happened in my life (twice from me, three times from the girl's perspectives).

Anyway, I've been friendzoned about three times, if I remember correctly, and I've never once bitched about it. I've never seen the point. Whining isn't going to accomplish anything. If anything, it only makes you more undesirable.

museofdoom:

So when a girl says, "I wish I could find a guy like you" it means she likes your qualities, but isn't attracted to you.

This is something that a girl should not ever say to a guy though if she knows the guy has romantic feelings for her. It serves no purpose and its really hurtful. Pretty much tells the guy that he's not good enough for her.

The friend zone does not exist usually guys that get put in the friendzone are either losers or very unattractive no offense.

BTW i notice that nice guys seem to think they are entitled to women alot of you so called nice guys really creep me out

you act as if women belong to you and seem to be mad at the world because you rejected and noboyd wants to sleep with you.

Being nice does not make you an interesting person, a good person, does not mean you are attractive and I've notice unlike men , us ladies usually do not tell men we find unttractive that they are unattractive.

I wish more women were like me I do not hang around or associate with males that call themselves nice guys which is ually code for pushover , cornball,creep,or just very unattractive socially awkard male

trhe reason nice guys get the friend zone is not because of them being nice its because they are usually ugly as hell.

Just_A_Glitch:

requisitename:
If people (male and female) would make their intentions and desires clear up front, we wouldn't have this issue. When people (male and female) play games, people (male and female) get hurt/angry/etc.

I've known enough people (male and female) to know that generally, interest is there (or not) from the beginning. It's been very rare that I've seen the typical romcom "just realized what was right in front of my face, now I'm crazy in love" trope play out in real life. People (male and female) certainly shouldn't count on that happening.

This is funny to me because I can count five times this has happened in my life (twice from me, three times from the girl's perspectives).

Anyway, I've been friendzoned about three times, if I remember correctly, and I've never once bitched about it. I've never seen the point. Whining isn't going to accomplish anything. If anything, it only makes you more undesirable.

museofdoom:

So when a girl says, "I wish I could find a guy like you" it means she likes your qualities, but isn't attracted to you.

This is something that a girl should not ever say to a guy though if she knows the guy has romantic feelings for her. It serves no purpose and its really hurtful. Pretty much tells the guy that he's not good enough for her.

why must woman constantly pander to men's weak egos ? honestly if im not attracted to you what else do you want a woman to say your ugly ???

i wish more women would be honest with the guys they reject i have friends who reject ugly guys and tell oh your a nice guy blah blah blahhhhh

then these guys going on thinking there getting rejected because there nice when in reality the girl is not attracted to them

just like men have standartds women do to and most of these nice guys usually dont fall into women standards looks wise yet they expect to get the sexy, big breasted blue eye blonde hair supermodel type chick when he's not even on her level

i never see these so called nice guys chasing after females who have the same type of personalities as them they always go after the girl every other guys once and expects her to like him

Onjenae:

Just_A_Glitch:

museofdoom:

So when a girl says, "I wish I could find a guy like you" it means she likes your qualities, but isn't attracted to you.

This is something that a girl should not ever say to a guy though if she knows the guy has romantic feelings for her. It serves no purpose and its really hurtful. Pretty much tells the guy that he's not good enough for her.

why must woman constantly pander to men's weak egos ? honestly if im not attracted to you what else do you want a woman to say your ugly ???

i wish more women would be honest with the guys they reject i have friends who reject ugly guys and tell oh your a nice guy blah blah blahhhhh

then these guys going on thinking there getting rejected because there nice when in reality the girl is not attracted to them

just like men have standartds women do to and most of these nice guys usually dont fall into women standards looks wise yet they expect to get the sexy, big breasted blue eye blonde hair supermodel type chick when he's not even on her level

i never see these so called nice guys chasing after females who have the same type of personalities as them they always go after the girl every other guys once and expects her to like him

I'm not saying pander to a man's weak ego. Men should suck it up and accept that the woman doesn't like them.

But what purpose does it serve to tell a guy who you know has deep feelings for you that they want someone so much like you, but isn't actually you? A girl can want that, sure, but why bother telling the guy in the first place? Especially worded like that. The argument the OP used, "And that if you really wanna be a nice guy, that you should be nice to girls even if you don't want in their pants?" can go both ways, you know. I can be friends with a woman without the overarching goal to be sex, but in what way is she being a good friend to the guy by saying, "You have all these redeeming qualities. Why can't I find them in someone more attractive?!"? It isn't pandering to a weak ego, its being a good person and being a good friend. Its just not something that needs to be said. Keep that between other people who aren't everything you want, minus one or two traits.

I've never gone up to a girl that I knew had a thing for me and said, "Wow, we have such a good time hanging out. You're funny and sweet and we connect on so many levels. Why can't I find somebody else like that?!" Its just rude and hurtful.

Basically gonna just hop in here and agree with everyone who says that these guys who get 'friend-zoned' aren't actually nice guys, and also agree with the ones who are saying that the phrase 'I wish I could find someone like you' is just unecessary and cruel.

There's nothing wrong, in principle, with realising you have feelings for a friend and wanting to pursue those feelings. However, if said friend doesn't feel the same way, then ending the friendship with them is just pathetic. It basically gives off the message that you didn't care enough about them as a friend and were only around in an attempt to get together with them. Of course, with 'nice guys' this generally is actually the case, as they will only form friendships with people they are attracted to. This, I feel, is the wrong way in which to do things. It's one thing to develop feelings for an existing friend, but if you know you are attracted to someone then it is much better for everyone involved if you declare it from the off. If that person feels the same way, well done you. If they don't, then you should either accept that and possibly form a friendship with them, or accept it and leave them to get on with their life. Do not make friends with someone that you're attracted to with the sole intent of attempting something later on; that only leads to awkwardness and hurt for everyone involved.

In terms of the 'someone like you' thing, I think that is just a massively unwise thing for someone to say. If this happens before the declaration of love, it gives the person false hope and will only encourage them to actually declare their feelings. Also, why would you say that to a friend anyway? If this is said after the declaration, it's just salt in the wound. At that point, it's essentially 'I really find a lot of things about you attractive, but I'm not attracted to you.' It also pretty much kills off the option of the two staying friends, because as I said, why would you say that to your friend?

So yeah, basically, don't make friends with people you want more than friendship with if your only goal is to attempt to make it more than a friendship down the line.

And that is why I have never "befriended" a lass I was interested in.

If I found her attractive then I let it be known. It's easy and saves confusion.

I think being a nice-guy is getting a bit too much stick.

From the guy's perspective getting to know a girl they like and treating them as a friend is a way of working up the courage to ask them out- which is a rather nerve-racking experience for many guys because it makes or breaks their self-confidence. Rationally speaking, it makes a fair bit of sense to get to know a girl you like before asking them out to check she arn't a bitch. Plus, if a guy's attracted to a girl he wants to spend time in her company anyway, so he's going to be inclined to seek her company, get to know her better in doing so, and eventually work up the courage to ask her out.

It's all very well saying that nice-guy's don't immediately ask a girl out because they are insecure and girls don't find that attractive- girls are just as insecure as guys if not more. I know attractive guys who are insecure, they're just very good at wearing masks which hide their self-doubts and women don't see through it.

I do understand though that this practise is inadvertently exploitive of the girl in question. Girl meets guy she doesn't find attractive, but guy is nice to her so girl think's she has a friend. Then there's than awkward moment when he asks her out and she has to say no, and then girl is left feeling used if the guy breaks their friendship because of it.

Guy's shouldn't break a friendship they've made with a girl if he's asked her out and she's said no. If the girl even deserved that guy's affections would settle for still valuing her as a friend.

But being a nice-guy and friendzoning is a consequence of the way dating works. Most guy's at a young age don't have the courage to go up to a girl they barely know and ask her out. I can't blame them because i was once like that. With age girls become less scary, you also become more self-confident because you know that girls are only human like you. And you get better at wearing masks.

I don't consider myself a "nice guy" and I have never been "friend-zoned" so maybe I am missing something, but why assume the guy thinks he's owed something? couldn't it be possible that he was simply hurt by the rejection, because well...rejection hurts?

Also, no one wants to be "friends" with someone they have feelings for that doesn't want them back, it's just too painful; is that really so hard to understand.

Christ, another topic on the friend-zone? Who actually thinks that being nice to someone entitles them to a relationship?
I guess it doesn't happen to me, because I'm awesome and way to hot to just stay friends with
(See, I can start needless controversy too.)

TheVioletBandit:
I don't consider myself a "nice guy" and I have never been "friend-zoned" so maybe I am missing something, but why assume the guy thinks he's owed something? couldn't it be possible that he was simply hurt by the rejection, because well...rejection hurts?

Also, no one wants to be "friends" with someone they have feelings for that doesn't want them back, it's just too painful; is that really so hard to understand.

I'm with this guy.

MASTACHIEFPWN:

image

heh, I'm wearing that t-shirt right now.

Onjenae:
The friend zone does not exist usually guys that get put in the friendzone are either losers or very unattractive no offense.

BTW i notice that nice guys seem to think they are entitled to women alot of you so called nice guys really creep me out

you act as if women belong to you and seem to be mad at the world because you rejected and noboyd wants to sleep with you.

Being nice does not make you an interesting person, a good person, does not mean you are attractive and I've notice unlike men , us ladies usually do not tell men we find unttractive that they are unattractive.

I wish more women were like me I do not hang around or associate with males that call themselves nice guys which is ually code for pushover , cornball,creep,or just very unattractive socially awkard male

trhe reason nice guys get the friend zone is not because of them being nice its because they are usually ugly as hell.

Wow, your post is just so extremely shallow, arrogant, hateful, and judgmental. I am really glad for those men you deem "ugly as hell" that you don't want to associate with them, and if you ever see me I hope you think I'm ugly as hell too so you'll stay the fuck away from me.

Seriously though, no one here is as bad as the people you find on 9gag, if youve ever been there. 85% of the people there act as though women are like characters in an RPG and that because theyve put in enough "conversation points" or however they imagine it, they are now entitled to sex or a girlfriend or whatever. Its the most self-centered attitude I could imagine, and upsets me a lot. So keep on fighting the brave fight there :P

museofdoom:
Since this is a predominantly male community, I figured talking about this here would result in the most interesting feedback. And I suppose I'm in the mood for a little controversy.

So you become friends with a female, and you really like her in that way. You spend time with her, you're kind to her, and you're always doing her favors. Eventually you pluck up the courage to confess your attraction and then GASP! she doesn't like you that way, and wants to stay friends! So now you go to all your buddies and cry that you were "friend zoned". Oh my goodness how dare that biotch not have any romantic feelings towards you!! You weren't a jerk to her so you were entitled to a relationship with her! And since your plans to get a little action were in vain, you cease being friends with the girl. And now the girl is left without a friend, and the knowledge that you were only friends with her in hopes of getting in her pants.

Do you realize how ridiculous whining about being "friend zoned" is? And that if you really wanna be a nice guy, that you should be nice to girls even if you don't want in their pants?

Also, when a girl says "I wish I could find a guy like you" but they don't want you, think of it this way: (stealing the metaphor from a friend of mine) Say you are out shopping and you want to buy a red pair of shoes. You get to the shoe store and find a nice pair of red shoes, but that particular pair of shoes isn't exactly suited to your taste so you continue looking and maybe you end up getting a pair of shoes completely different to what you were originally looking for. So when a girl says, "I wish I could find a guy like you" it means she likes your qualities, but isn't attracted to you. This does not make her a hypocrite, or a bitch. So please stop whining and making yourselves out to be a victim of some heinous crime because the girl you like doesn't like you.

Sorry for the little rant, I've just seen too many "friend zone" related memes and rage comics recently. 0___0

That's cool, Just don't complain when a guy says "No I don't want to be friends" to the whole "I think we should just be friends thing". If they were hoping for a purely romantic involvement and you have no intention of providing but instead offer an alternative that, from my observations, only seems to appeal to one party and causes pain on the other. Than they are well within their rights to stop being friends.

Some guys lose contact with their ex's because they couldn't provide on a romantic level. Same situation.

The friend-zone topic has been pretty much done to death on the Escapist, and just about everyone has concluded that it doesn't exist. Not only are you late to the party, but you brought up a topic yourself and then said "God! Can we stop talking about this?" Why yes. Yes we can. In fact, now would be a good time.

Also, to say to someone who likes you "I wish I could find a guy like you" while not actually wanting to be with them does in fact make you a massive bitch. Sure, you're entitled to not be interested in someone, but to then basically go out and say "I'd be interested in you if you hadn't been beaten by the ugly stick" makes you a fucking asshole. People aren't shoes.

Edit: That's an extremely general "you", by the way. Not you you.

Y'know what? Although this needs to be said (but has been said many times before) understanding is a two way street. So here it is from the other side.

You're alone. You've been alone for years. Sure, you have friends, maybe a lot of them, but those pesky human impulses want more. Everyone around you has found someone. Everyone keeps saying there's nothing wrong with you, but the evidence for this claim is scarce.

You meet someone. You like her (or him, if you're that way inclined) she seems to like you. Hard to tell, seeming as everyone you ask for advice peddles out useless cliches like "if it's meant to happen, it'll happen" and "someone for everyone". After building up the courage and figuring out how to do it, a hard task for someone with your lack of experience, you admit your feelings, and she doesn't feel the same.

You're heartbroken. Your seemingly anual (or even less frequent) singular chance has came and went, and you don't even know why. You talk to friends sooner or later, because hell, you can't keep this kind of hurt to yourself forever. More cliches, somehow even more useless than before.

Spending time with the person you liked is hard enough. Suspicions run through your mind, or simple excuses not to be there. She doesn't want you there. The very sight of you disgusts her. Even a bad reason for it to have happened is better than no reason at all. Eventually she gets someone else, and it becomes impossible to spend time with her, not because of jealousy necessarily, but you'll be looking at that person and using him as a battering ram against your own self esteem.

Now, what I'm saying here isn't that it's right, or fair, that the supposed "victim" of "the friend zone" does this, abandons what was a friend, but that it's understandable. People forget how hard it is to stay around someone you love that only likes you.

And I know why it happened to me. I know every damn day I look in the mirror and somehow look more of an abomination than the day before. Everyone's shallow, I know that, even I'm shallow a little. You can't lie and say that isn't the reason, because 90% of the time, it is. Now I don't do that to girls anymore. I don't disappear with barely a word. Because I don't ask girls out anymore, because I know there is only one conclusion, that she rejects me, and either I leave her forever, or completely destroy myself by staying. I've accepted the fact that I will never be wanted. I am a horrifying, disgusting creature, and it was always a bit unfair to expect anyone to be attracted to me, but that doesn't make it an easy thing to accept.

So yeah. It's not fair or right that this "friendzone" effect exists, but it does, because you just don't stop wanting someone because they don't want them back. Quoted because I'm interested to know what you think.

Firstly this works both ways.

And secondly, a friendship isn't always going to work very well after one person tells the other they want to be more than friends, and the other person disagrees. It depends on how both people handle it really. Depending on how obvious the friendzoned person was, then the person rejecting them may also have seen it coming.

Nickolai77:

But being a nice-guy and friendzoning is a consequence of the way dating works. Most guy's at a young age don't have the courage to go up to a girl they barely know and ask her out. I can't blame them because i was once like that. With age girls become less scary, you also become more self-confident because you know that girls are only human like you. And you get better at wearing masks.

Pretty much this. "Nice Guy Syndrome" is just an unfortunate fact of current gender roles/courting. While there are 'Assholes' who berate women's self confidence to establish higher social value so they can pick them up, there is also 'Nice Guys'(another kind of asshole), who try to warm up to their love interest in order to gather the courage to ask them out. It'd be easier to simply express interest right away, but the beginning stages of dating can be terrifying for the uninitiated, especially for the guy who has to make the first move. I'm not justifying their actions, just explaining the facts.

There really isn't much for discussion here really. Its as useless argument "why do men avoid strong willed independent women"?

As far as I'm concerned the "Friend Zone" is an entirely fictional thing made up by teenagers to avoid admitting their own inexperience and clumsiness.

You take one boy/girl with little romantic experience and average or below average social skills. Add a crush on another boy/girl with little romantic experience and average or below average social skills.

Being inexperienced and not a social genius the first boy/girl will fumble around for a bit, get his/her bearings and slowly carefully move forward. In the process a friendship happens to begin. After a period of friendship where things seem to be going well the boy/girl gathers up his/her courage and attempts to advance the relationship further. But being inexperienced this is done in a rather clumsy way like say a direct confession of feelings.

Now we get the other person, also inexperienced and not a social genius. He/she failed to recognize the feelings of the other and when the clumsy confession comes in all likelihood gives out an equally clumsy response, usually in the format of "No but you're such a great person etc.". Lacking the social experience needed to realize that a person in love, like the other, will pay attention to what comes after the "but", not what comes before.

It's just something that happens when you put a lot of teenagers together. Most of us aren't social geniuses and don't have the necessary experience to compensate. Nothing wrong with it, it's just another of life's lessons.

How about when they say "any girl would be lucky to have you"?
Can I be annoyed then?

I don't usually complain about the other things but this really gets to me.

Edit: Also, I'm a particular victim of this kind of situation. Not that I deserve things, not that the girl in the one in the wrong, and not simply because I'm a coward. It's that I have seemingly characteristics I want in a partner, so asking them out as soon as I meet them is pointless, since one conversation may tell me nothing, and it's stupid to go by looks. And I often won't develop feelings for someone until spending time with them as a friend.

Edit2: Also, I had an unfortunate situation were the girl wouldn't out right say no to me and kept re-filling my hope so much that afterwards, not only was I not attracted to her anymore, I didn't want to be her friend anymore, which makes me look like a manipulative dick, so I have to at least try to be friends with her. But it wasn't entirely her fault. I was a whiny bitch.

as other's have said, it's when they say 'i'd like to meet someone just like you' that is annoying rather than the fact they don't have the same feelings.

Nickolai77:
From the guy's perspective getting to know a girl they like and treating them as a friend is a way of working up the courage to ask them out- which is a rather nerve-racking experience for many guys because it makes or breaks their self-confidence. Rationally speaking, it makes a fair bit of sense to get to know a girl you like before asking them out to check she arn't a bitch. Plus, if a guy's attracted to a girl he wants to spend time in her company anyway, so he's going to be inclined to seek her company, get to know her better in doing so, and eventually work up the courage to ask her out.

I do understand though that this practise is inadvertently exploitive of the girl in question.

Not inadvertently. What you've just described is a guy tricking a girl into a friendship with the ulterior motive of asking her out at a later date. This girl thinks she's gained a friend, and then at some point down the road, said friend asks her out. She says no, because she sees him as a friend, yet when she does this he ends the friendship. The girl is then left with the knowledge that actually, this guy never wanted to be her friend, that all the time she thought they'd been friends he'd actually been scheming to make it something more. And you think guys like this are getting a bit too much stick?

As mentioned before, this has been done to death ehre already, and it's been generally established that the OP is right.

On the other hand, a year or so ago this was not the case.

Doclector:
So yeah. It's not fair or right that this "friendzone" effect exists, but it does, because you just don't stop wanting someone because they don't want them back.

Er...not quite sure what that has specifically to do with "friendzoning", any more than it does with unrequited lust/love (and, TBH, it's usually the former) in general. Friendzoning seems to be just another way of whining about it.

Hagi:
As far as I'm concerned the "Friend Zone" is an entirely fictional thing made up by teenagers to avoid admitting their own inexperience and clumsiness.

I've never particularly viewed the term "friend zoned" as a whiny thing. It's just a term to described that the person you've been pursuing only views you as a friend. It's not fictional, and it's something that you are well within your power to change. It's just a phrase, no different from saying something like "she hates me".

I've just always been confused with people like you who try to turn it into a thing people say to avoid the fact that it's somehow their fault that they didn't win over the person. It's just a simple term to describe the relationship between two people.

thaluikhain:
As mentioned before, this has been done to death ehre already, and it's been generally established that the OP is right.

On the other hand, a year or so ago this was not the case.

Doclector:
So yeah. It's not fair or right that this "friendzone" effect exists, but it does, because you just don't stop wanting someone because they don't want them back.

Er...not quite sure what that has specifically to do with "friendzoning", any more than it does with unrequited lust/love (and, TBH, it's usually the former) in general. Friendzoning seems to be just another way of whining about it.

What I'm saying is that put in that position, it's hard not to whine. Or at least to complain, and talk about it. There seems to be this assumption that it doesn't hurt.

b3nn3tt:

Nickolai77:
From the guy's perspective getting to know a girl they like and treating them as a friend is a way of working up the courage to ask them out- which is a rather nerve-racking experience for many guys because it makes or breaks their self-confidence. Rationally speaking, it makes a fair bit of sense to get to know a girl you like before asking them out to check she arn't a bitch. Plus, if a guy's attracted to a girl he wants to spend time in her company anyway, so he's going to be inclined to seek her company, get to know her better in doing so, and eventually work up the courage to ask her out.

I do understand though that this practise is inadvertently exploitive of the girl in question.

Not inadvertently. What you've just described is a guy tricking a girl into a friendship with the ulterior motive of asking her out at a later date. This girl thinks she's gained a friend, and then at some point down the road, said friend asks her out. She says no, because she sees him as a friend, yet when she does this he ends the friendship. The girl is then left with the knowledge that actually, this guy never wanted to be her friend, that all the time she thought they'd been friends he'd actually been scheming to make it something more. And you think guys like this are getting a bit too much stick?

Yup, they are.

Nobody is tricking anybody into anything.

These guys aren't sitting at home twirling their moustaches thinking how they're going to sucker another girl into becoming their friend so that when she finally believes she's found a real friend they can drop the big "I'm in love with you" bomb and laugh all the way back home as she tries to reject them in the least hurtful manner (that actually hurts the most) before breaking off the friendship and heading home to find another innocent girl to sucker into a friendship whilst sitting in a big leather chair petting an evil cat.

They're just inexperienced teenagers doing exactly what inexperienced teenagers do. Fucking things up so that they can gain the experience needed to no longer fuck things up.

There's no bad guy or girl in this story. It's just random social awkwardness. Because, big surprise, social interaction is actually quite hard.

Doclector:
What I'm saying is that put in that position, it's hard not to whine. Or at least to complain, and talk about it. There seems to be this assumption that it doesn't hurt.

Oh, to not be happy with it, I can understand. But the term is generally used in depictions of it as a complete tragedy and betrayal by people who can't grasp that the world isn't obliged to love them.

thaluikhain:

Doclector:
What I'm saying is that put in that position, it's hard not to whine. Or at least to complain, and talk about it. There seems to be this assumption that it doesn't hurt.

Oh, to not be happy with it, I can understand. But the term is generally used in depictions of it as a complete tragedy and betrayal by people who can't grasp that the world isn't obliged to love them.

That I can get. Thing is, it takes a long time to finally accept that you're just not the kind of person who can be wanted, and even then it hurts.

TheVioletBandit:
I don't consider myself a "nice guy" and I have never been "friend-zoned" so maybe I am missing something, but why assume the guy thinks he's owed something? couldn't it be possible that he was simply hurt by the rejection, because well...rejection hurts?

Also, no one wants to be "friends" with someone they have feelings for that doesn't want them back, it's just too painful; is that really so hard to understand.

I disagree. In the past I have been very good friends with a couple of different women (at different times in my life) and have been attracted to them. When I confessed my feelings and desire to take things further each one reacted differently. One told my straight up that she wasn't interested and why. It was honest, sincear, and helpful. I was able to move on and we continued to be very good friends afterwards. The other didn't wan't to hurt my feelings so she said nothing (or to be more accurate, "I am not ready for another relationship yet"). I heard on more than one occasion the phrase 'why can't I find somebody like you...' and it hurt, a lot. It wasn't until over a year later that I was able to drag a difinitive answer out of her. I had to be an ass to do it but it gave me what I needed. Her honest answer. After that I was able to move on and we remained very good friends.

The friend zone is real. And it does suck to be in it. In my experience (and those of people I know) it is only a problem for as long as an honest answer is held back.

JoesshittyOs:

Hagi:
As far as I'm concerned the "Friend Zone" is an entirely fictional thing made up by teenagers to avoid admitting their own inexperience and clumsiness.

I've never particularly viewed the term "friend zoned" as a whiny thing. It's just a term to described that the person you've been pursuing only views you as a friend. It's not fictional, and it's something that you are well within your power to change. It's just a phrase, no different from saying something like "she hates me".

I've just always been confused with people like you who try to turn it into a thing people say to avoid the fact that it's somehow their fault that they didn't win over the person. It's just a simple term to describe the relationship between two people.

There's no blame here. No bad guy who did everything wrong and so naturally didn't get the girl. No bad girl who doesn't know what the heck she wants and thus doesn't get what she really needs (according to another person of course).

The fictional part I'm referring to however is how it's commonly used. That females apparently have two categories in their brain which they use to classify males. And if you're nice and friendly then you get put into the "friend-zone". It's used as some kind of neurological truth about how women deep-down work. Which, I believe, is fictional.

But as a simple term to describe one party wanting a friendship and the other wanting a relationship? Sure, it'd be entirely real as that. That just doesn't seem to be the context I see it used in most often. But then again I might just be hanging around the wrong parts of the Internet.

While I did exactly what was described up to the rejection part, I realized she had a boyfriend at the time, so I didn't put it past her that she rejected me, I was kind of expecting her to say no anyway.

I'd agree with the whole "Just because you're nice doesn't entitle you to a relationship with them"
However, the friend I had feelings for, hooked up with me (while she was completely sober mind you) months after we became friends, then when I confessed my feelings for her I was instantly friend zoned.
Now that was bullshit.

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