Can we talk about the "friend zone" and "nice guys" for a moment?

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Sandytimeman:
personally I'm gay so I don't really have the friendzone problem, but I have seen alot of women lead on a guy that has been friendzoned. They know that the guy wants them so they get him to buy them stuff, or take care of them in bad situations.

I had one girl ask me if it was wrong to flirt with a guy to buy her a pizza even though she new the guy liked her and she had no intention of ever dating the guy. I told her "idk its kinda what girls do." and then she got mad at me.

idk women are confusing and weird.

So somebody asked your honest opinion then got mad at you for giving you the answer she didn't want to hear? Sounds like the typical female people always scream 'friendzone' about.

Captcha: moon cheese. Ew?

My reaction to dudes whining about being friendzoned is usually:
More like FriendzOWNED am I right?

Existentialistme:
So ladies, cut the nice guys some slack. We're truly sorry we reference so many dorky things, play a lot of video games, and don't have Ryan Reynolds' abs, but this doesn't mean we should be cast out and left bitter and alone because of it. I understand that you're young and these are all things that you will probably grow out of once you stop craving drama, but after you've been hurt and manipulated so many times, wouldn't you say it's time for a little change? Give us a chance.

This reeks of entitlement. We all have responsibility for our own happiness. Take you fate in your own hands. You want change? Start with yourself.

Raven's Nest:
Quite the hilarious picture I've just seen...

Ugh. This is why people associate gamers with things like Columbine.

museofdoom:
Since this is a predominantly male community, I figured talking about this here would result in the most interesting feedback. And I suppose I'm in the mood for a little controversy.

So you become friends with a female, and you really like her in that way. You spend time with her, you're kind to her, and you're always doing her favors. Eventually you pluck up the courage to confess your attraction and then GASP! she doesn't like you that way, and wants to stay friends! So now you go to all your buddies and cry that you were "friend zoned". Oh my goodness how dare that biotch not have any romantic feelings towards you!! You weren't a jerk to her so you were entitled to a relationship with her! And since your plans to get a little action were in vain, you cease being friends with the girl. And now the girl is left without a friend, and the knowledge that you were only friends with her in hopes of getting in her pants.

Do you realize how ridiculous whining about being "friend zoned" is? And that if you really wanna be a nice guy, that you should be nice to girls even if you don't want in their pants?

Also, when a girl says "I wish I could find a guy like you" but they don't want you, think of it this way: (stealing the metaphor from a friend of mine) Say you are out shopping and you want to buy a red pair of shoes. You get to the shoe store and find a nice pair of red shoes, but that particular pair of shoes isn't exactly suited to your taste so you continue looking and maybe you end up getting a pair of shoes completely different to what you were originally looking for. So when a girl says, "I wish I could find a guy like you" it means she likes your qualities, but isn't attracted to you. This does not make her a hypocrite, or a bitch. So please stop whining and making yourselves out to be a victim of some heinous crime because the girl you like doesn't like you.

Sorry for the little rant, I've just seen too many "friend zone" related memes and rage comics recently. 0___0

You can't be upset with a guy for not wanting to be friends with you, it hurts like hell to be rejected. Would you be upset if you pined over a guy for a set of time, thinking you had a chance, then he tells you he just wants to be friends? No you would be ashamed and embarassed and the last person you would want to see would be the guy. Sorry, it happens, move on.

I agree with everything else you said though :D

tobyornottoby:

Ugh. This is why people associate gamers with things like Columbine.

Meme comics make people associate gamers with school massacres? Hmm, that's news to me.

Well, considering the fact that I never complained about the "friend-zone", dedicated myself to being a good friend, had the very special lady fall for me a moment too late, then come back too late... I think unrequited love switcheroo is more relevant to me.

Dusty Fred:
It sometimes seems almost as if Nice Guys are viewed as rather like a public service; in that they should be conveniently available by default.

[...]

But what gets under my skin is the girls whose actual preference is fun with a fit, muscle-bound alpha-male type and then a nice guy later on for when they want staid reliability.

They got what you asked for. They've been nice, They've been friendly. That's rewarded with friendship. If they want more, they should do more.

If they feel used they were dishonest about being nice in the first place.

Dusty Fred:
Now, I don't deny for one moment that many a young lady deserves only the finest young gentleman who will treat her properly (not least my dear friend, who's just broken up with someone who was not and did not).

Don't put people on pedestals.

Dusty Fred:
My point? The difficulty for a girl in finding a nice guy (in SOME, let me be clear, not ALL cases)may be because the nice guy who would have done anything for her has been so crushed inside by watching her flirt and court and associate with shallow Adonis types that he no longer has the self-worth or confidence to greet the day with an open heart anymore.

Reminds me of this opening: http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2007/12/16/the-internet-nice-guy-rears-his-ugly-head-once-more/
=p

Raven's Nest:

tobyornottoby:

Ugh. This is why people associate gamers with things like Columbine.

Meme comics make people associate gamers with school massacres? Hmm, that's news to me.

Well seeing how there once was a item about pedobear on the news, somehow missing the part it was a meme, I can see it happening =p

I mean, what you see there is a dude with serious anger management issues.

Doclector:
-Snip-

Oh my goodness, that was one of the funniest things I've read in a while. I know it was probably not meant to be funny, but the candor and brevity of each sentence made it so for me.

Everyone keeps saying there's nothing wrong with you, but the evidence for this claim is scarce.

There is clear wit here. It's as if you've done an internal investigation regarding said claim but have at most discovered circumstantial evidence, and more likely, simple coincidence.

Oh, that post ruined me. I bruised my ribs over the weekend and I've been trying to avoid sneezing, coughing and laughing, but I just got owned. Oh, it hurts everywhere. It feels like everything I do is just going to cause nothing but pain.

I don't think anyone can disagree with the overall point Doclector brings up - regardless of your stance about the "Friend Zone", unrequited love is psychologically painful. Especially as the one who is rejected, I mean talk about re-evaluation of self-worth that's bound to end badly.

I really want to write more because the topic is fascinating, but I feel I need to lay down in a giant bath of ice. Will return shortly.

tobyornottoby:

Raven's Nest:

tobyornottoby:

Ugh. This is why people associate gamers with things like Columbine.

Meme comics make people associate gamers with school massacres? Hmm, that's news to me.

Well seeing how there once was a item about pedobear on the news, somehow missing the part it was a meme, I can see it happening =p

I mean, what you see there is a dude with serious anger management issues.

Clearly, that's the joke of course... Violence has been entertaining since, well forever. It shouldn't be a shock to anyone except sheltered god fearing conservative types. It is by far and fucking wide not the most disturbing image ever attributed to adolescent nerd culture.

tobyornottoby:

Hattingston:
tl;dr
In essence, I think nice guys are disappointed, not self-entitled.

The cause does not justify the deeds. Some of these "nice guys" still have a very misogynic way of expressing that disappointment.

To clarify, it's inappropriate to try to talk about disappointment with friends? What deeds, precisely, do you think I'm justifying? The OP discussed how Nice Guys were self-entitled, my only point was to say that that statement wasn't necessarily true.

Many of the people I've met that consider themselves "nice guys" aren't actually as nice as they think. They treat women like a completely different species rather than simply a person. People differ on so many levels other than gender, it's a small aspect of what makes a person.

The "friend zone" is a stupid concept and sexist (regardless of which gender is using it, although it's almost entirely males complaining). Hey, it's perfectly fine to have friends of the opposite gender. Want to avoid it? Then make your intentions clear. It's not her fault you're not smooth enough to actually talk like an adult. And hey, people have the right to say no. I swear, a woman says yes, people yell slut. Woman says no, they cry friendzone.

Cyfu:

Revolutionaryloser:

Cyfu:

could you generalize any more than that?

I for one am offended, I consider myself a "Nice-guy" and i am neither a push-over, cornball nor creepy. I may not be the most attractive guy in the universe and i may be a bit socially awkward. but to say that everyone who are a "nice guy" is a creep, is idiotic. it's like saying every beautiful woman is a bitch and is stupid and self-centered.

To clarify, I do not feel entitled to a relationship just because i was nice to them. and those who think that should not be considered or consider them selves as "nice guys" but be considered as douchebags.

I can't say how you can be offended. You go around labelling yourself and then you are surprised when others think it's ok to label you themselves. If you have nothing else to take pride in than the fact you are a "nice guy" by your own admission and feel the need to point it out to your friends then you shouldn't be surprised you aren't as interesting to people as you'd wish. Being nice isn't a virtue, it's a minimum requirement of human decency.

Please. I don't want to be rude but you can aspire to a bit more than being nice.

I don't really know how to answer this, but i will try.
you assume that i go around telling everyone that how nice a guy I am. and that i think that being nice, as you said , is a virtue.
yes, I pride myself in being a nice guy. but this is the first time in my entire life I have labeled myself as a nice guy. I don't expect anyone to behave in any other way than this. because like you said it's the minimum requirement of human decency. but when someone says that behaving according to human decency is a sign of being bigger ass or creep than people who are behaving below the minimum requirement of human decency is, in my opinion, a pretty good reason to be offended.

Well, obviously if you aren't one to boast about what a nice guy you are none of this criticism or the criticism you responded to prior is directed at you. We're discussing specifically the sort of sleazy guys that hang around women, bending to all their whims and when it turns out the girl has no interest in them, the first thing they moan about is that they can't understand why they aren't loved seeing as they're such a nice guy. Trust me those guys are everywhere. To me at least, people who spend all day banging on about how nice they are are a bit like if I went around telling people I'm not racist for no apparent reason and acting all smug about it. So what? There's absolutely nothing commendable about that; it's not an achievement. What's more, it's just plain arrogant to go around boasting about your qualities, especially if it's something that's inherently humble like "being nice". The fact that somebody goes around being so hypocritical with absolutely no sense of irony like that is in itself kind of disturbing. It says a lot about that person that they have practically no self awareness, something most people develop during infancy.

twohundredpercent:
My reaction to dudes whining about being friendzoned is usually:
More like FriendzOWNED am I right?

*Questioning your motivation for that reaction. Just curious. It doesn't make sense to me.*

Existentialistme:
Ho-wow this is a tricky subject. Coincidentally, I actually wrote a paper on this for English - not on the "friend-zone" specifically, but on why girls don't go for nice guys. Considering this thread is already 11 pages long and nearly every possible angle has been identified - posting this is probably pretty useless and unnecessary, and if so then you should ignore it an go about your merry way. However, if you have a response I'd be happy to hear it. I've thought about this kind of thing for far too long. My assessment is as follows:

I hate women.
That's not true. I love women, but they've caused me the most frustration out of probably anything else in my 19 years of living. You ever hear the phrase "nice guys finish last"? Well unfortunately, it's entirely true. As it turns out, most girls will use almost any excuse they can come up with to avoid dating a nice guy: "He's too nice," "all the good guys are taken," "we're just good friends, dating would make things weird," "yadda, yadda, yadda." Please ladies, spare me, I've heard them all before.

Now at this point in time you're probably wondering: "Christopher, you bitter old woman-hater, if you know so well then what do you define as a nice guy?" Well I'm glad I'm assuming you've asked. Nice guys are the ones who respect women, and not in a "wait on them hand and foot" kind of way. What I mean is that they don't try and take advantage of anyone. They honestly care about the feelings and emotions of women, and not because they have to, because they are naturally genuine and sincere. They want to make a girl feel good, not because they're trying to get rewarded for it, but because it's what a good man does. So why is it that the majority of the time the careless jerk; we'll refer to him as Chad McSexy, gets the girl over us sweet and caring guys? I've narrowed the answer down to three reasons:

Reason #1) Nice guys are generally not very confident. This sucks because girls eat up confidence like a box of chocolate unicorns covered in pixie dust sprinkles. Women love men who have a good sense of who they are, that's a lot of what confidence is all about. They like it when a guy knows what he wants out of life, where he's headed, and what values are important to him. But whether or not Chad McSexy knows any of these things isn't really important, because he can sure as hell act like it. (And when you're trying to get into a girl's pants, what else really matters?)

Sadly, nice guys aren't good actors. We may have that sense of who we are, but we don't know how to express it or use it to our advantage. To many of us, even just walking up to a girl we've never talked to before and introducing ourselves is a terrifying notion. Yes, we understand that you're people just like everyone else and will be polite if we approach you, but these things don't change the fact that we find you incredibly intimidating. Sure, nice guys are more likely to be romantic and cutesy, but we don't have the confidence to show it, not at first anyway. It takes us some time for us to become comfortable around you, time most women aren't willing to waste.
Reason #2) Chad McSexy is a very good con man. Whether it's intentional or not, it's easy for him to make girls think he's an actual nice guy. No really, he totally is. He's vulnerable and insecure and he really cares about those special people in his life. And the way that he looks at you makes you- what's that? He wants you to take your pants off? Well, maybe just this once, he's been so sweet to you all night. He wouldn't take advantage of you. He's not that kind of guy. "Can you hold on a second?" you say. "I just need to strangle this last bit of common sense to its imminent death." *sounds of a struggle* "Oops, I accidently killed my self respect too. Oh well."

My point is, Chad McSexy is a good deceiver because on the outside, he's already all the things women like, so it's easy for him to automatically appeal to them. He's got a great smile and a charismatic personality, but nice guys don't usually come in that neat of a package. We're not outgoing, or have fun in the same ways you do, and are probably into things that only we find cool. But if given the chance, we'll hop into our X-Wings and blow that Death Star to a million pieces, just for you.
Reason #3) Girls don't understand that the rules of attraction don't come naturally to nice guys. You ladies expect us to know when to make a move, what to say when we introduce ourselves, or how to know if you like us back; but these things have never been clear to us. I was talking to a girl today about this very subject and she said, "Girls aren't hard to read ... you can tell when we like you, we give you this look." To which I immediately thought: "There's a look??" Some universal look that women give to men they're attracted to? No I didn't know this! How was I supposed to? Why wasn't I informed of this earlier?" No ladies, there's no look, you think there's a look. You think we know these things about you, when really we have about as much of a clue as to why you guys get so much enjoyment out of reality television. (It puzzles me to this day.)

So ladies, cut the nice guys some slack. We're truly sorry we reference so many dorky things, play a lot of video games, and don't have Ryan Reynolds' abs, but this doesn't mean we should be cast out and left bitter and alone because of it. I understand that you're young and these are all things that you will probably grow out of once you stop craving drama, but after you've been hurt and manipulated so many times, wouldn't you say it's time for a little change? Give us a chance. Give us a chance to become the men you never thought we could be. Who knows? We may surprise you. Don't immediately give up on us because we're "too nice" or "too clingy," we haven't had much practice at this stuff after all. If something is bothering you about the relationship, then talk to us. Teach us how to be the kind of guys that girls want to date, while still keeping our morality and sweetness intact. And for the love of god, stop giving in to the Chad McSexys of the world. You're better than that.

Wow, thank you, finally someone can explain what the hell we are talking about. Can I use this to explain things to my friends? I don't show any attraction to anyone ever cause I would rather not give my friends that kind of information. This has lead to a few problems, mostly that I was under the suspicion that my friend liked me but since I don't really show much emotion, because I don't trust me read on people, I think she gave up trying. My friends don't believe me when I say I can't read people but this definitely helps to explain it.

Hattingston:

tobyornottoby:

Hattingston:
tl;dr
In essence, I think nice guys are disappointed, not self-entitled.

The cause does not justify the deeds. Some of these "nice guys" still have a very misogynic way of expressing that disappointment.

To clarify, it's inappropriate to try to talk about disappointment with friends? What deeds, precisely, do you think I'm justifying? The OP discussed how Nice Guys were self-entitled, my only point was to say that that statement wasn't necessarily true.

Well, I see it more as sometimes when a Nice Guy publicly posts a rant online. Disappointed or not, there's a grey area in what's appropriate/healthy to vent and what isn't.

guidance:
Wow, thank you, finally someone can explain what the hell we are talking about. Can I use this to explain things to my friends? I don't show any attraction to anyone ever cause I would rather not give my friends that kind of information. This has lead to a few problems, mostly that I was under the suspicion that my friend liked me but since I don't really show much emotion, because I don't trust me read on people, I think she gave up trying. My friends don't believe me when I say I can't read people but this definitely helps to explain it.

Of course you can :) I'm glad you liked it.

Faine':

ThePS1Fan:
Please consult this video


Thanks.

Holy crap! Thanks for this. It sums up pretty much everything I try to explain to 'nice guys' who either fall for me or other girls and can't understand why we don't want them.

Always glad to spread a helpful message :)

tobyornottoby:
This reeks of entitlement. We all have responsibility for our own happiness. Take you fate in your own hands. You want change? Start with yourself.

I can agree that most (if not all) of these things stem from issues said 'nice guy' has to begin with, whether it being a lack of confidence, or having a lack of experience, or whatever - but it's the fact that women seem to choose to ignore the good qualities we already have that I have a problem with. I understand that women like confidence, but I think it's unfair that they EXPECT it out of us. Those of us to whom confidence doesn't come to naturally have a REALLY hard time gaining it on our own. It takes a lot of time - as I said, time most women aren't willing to waste. We're trying to change, I'M trying to change, but it's not gonna come overnight.

And about entitlement: DUH we feel entitled, but it's not like it's a conscious thing - it's something we're born into. With our society, and all the Hollywood movies, and the pop songs, etc. How are we not supposed to feel entitled? The hero always gets the girl at the end of the movie; that's how it's always been. Obviously, we (as in all of us) consider ourselves to be the heroes of our own stories. (And no, I'm not trying to place the blame on anything but me, I'm just trying to point out why it's so difficult to change or think in a different way when we have so much outside influence.)

If you don't believe me, believe Cracked: http://www.cracked.com/article_19785_5-ways-modern-men-are-trained-to-hate-women.html

Revolutionaryloser:

Cyfu:

Revolutionaryloser:

I can't say how you can be offended. You go around labelling yourself and then you are surprised when others think it's ok to label you themselves. If you have nothing else to take pride in than the fact you are a "nice guy" by your own admission and feel the need to point it out to your friends then you shouldn't be surprised you aren't as interesting to people as you'd wish. Being nice isn't a virtue, it's a minimum requirement of human decency.

Please. I don't want to be rude but you can aspire to a bit more than being nice.

I don't really know how to answer this, but i will try.
you assume that i go around telling everyone that how nice a guy I am. and that i think that being nice, as you said , is a virtue.
yes, I pride myself in being a nice guy. but this is the first time in my entire life I have labeled myself as a nice guy. I don't expect anyone to behave in any other way than this. because like you said it's the minimum requirement of human decency. but when someone says that behaving according to human decency is a sign of being bigger ass or creep than people who are behaving below the minimum requirement of human decency is, in my opinion, a pretty good reason to be offended.

Well, obviously if you aren't one to boast about what a nice guy you are none of this criticism or the criticism you responded to prior is directed at you. We're discussing specifically the sort of sleazy guys that hang around women, bending to all their whims and when it turns out the girl has no interest in them, the first thing they moan about is that they can't understand why they aren't loved seeing as they're such a nice guy. Trust me those guys are everywhere. To me at least, people who spend all day banging on about how nice they are are a bit like if I went around telling people I'm not racist for no apparent reason and acting all smug about it. So what? There's absolutely nothing commendable about that; it's not an achievement. What's more, it's just plain arrogant to go around boasting about your qualities, especially if it's something that's inherently humble like "being nice". The fact that somebody goes around being so hypocritical with absolutely no sense of irony like that is in itself kind of disturbing. It says a lot about that person that they have practically no self awareness, something most people develop during infancy.

lol i agree with everything you have been saying so far omg lol we both have basically said the same thing but you was less harsh

as a woman im tired of hearing "nice guys" compalin about rejection aas a man getting rejected is apart of life and is something your going to have to learn how to deal with either that or make yourself into the type of man that gets approached by women so you can reject them isntead of them rejecting you

This thread as a whole is why online dating can be very good: looking for a relationship?- Me too! Lets meet! and this either branches to a second date or back to square one.

As for me, I don't have any female friends, and I mean none, I am not looking for only sex, I just want someone to be in a relationship with someone who I am compatable with, it's a pretty good feeling you know? I hate being lonely, there is no feeling that is worse.

It's really weird, but when I was in a relationship, I seemed to be nicer to everyone, cleaned up more, worked out more. I was actually happy. I miss that

Also, the not calling yourself a nice guy thing, noted.

My dad was the nice guy, met my mom at age 30, my mom told me she would date up to 6 guys at once, she stopped that when she wanted to settle down.

Existentialistme:

tobyornottoby:
This reeks of entitlement. We all have responsibility for our own happiness. Take you fate in your own hands. You want change? Start with yourself.

I can agree that most (if not all) of these things stem from issues said 'nice guy' has to begin with, whether it being a lack of confidence, or having a lack of experience, or whatever - but it's the fact that women seem to choose to ignore the good qualities we already have that I have a problem with. I understand that women like confidence, but I think it's unfair that they EXPECT it out of us. Those of us to whom confidence doesn't come to naturally have a REALLY hard time gaining it on our own. It takes a lot of time - as I said, time most women aren't willing to waste. We're trying to change, I'M trying to change, but it's not gonna come overnight.

And about entitlement: DUH we feel entitled, but it's not like it's a conscious thing - it's something we're born into. With our society, and all the Hollywood movies, and the pop songs, etc. How are we not supposed to feel entitled? The hero always gets the girl at the end of the movie; that's how it's always been. Obviously, we (as in all of us) consider ourselves to be the heroes of our own stories. (And no, I'm not trying to place the blame on anything but me, I'm just trying to point out why it's so difficult to change or think in a different way when we have so much outside influence.)

If you don't believe me, believe Cracked: http://www.cracked.com/article_19785_5-ways-modern-men-are-trained-to-hate-women.html

Hehe yeah.

Well, it's just that I'm not sure you can ask women to give chances.
I might be annoyed by how we're 'wasting' 1/3 of our days by sleeping, but there's not much I can do about that. It's our nature. Just focus on spending that 2/3 better.
I don't think it works on attraction either. More fruitful to focus on yourself than try to change how attraction works.

Why not expect confidence if you have the luxury to do so? Time is our most precious possession. I can understand not wanting to give that up for possibly no real gain. And then, not every girl has the luxury to do so. For every boy struggling with this, there is a girl struggling with it just as much. But usually the attention of the boys is on the 'hot chicks'.

tobyornottoby:
Hehe yeah.

Well, it's just that I'm not sure you can ask women to give chances.
I might be annoyed by how we're 'wasting' 1/3 of our days by sleeping, but there's not much I can do about that. It's our nature. Just focus on spending that 2/3 better.
I don't think it works on attraction either. More fruitful to focus on yourself than try to change how attraction works.

Why not expect confidence if you have the luxury to do so? Time is our most precious possession. I can understand not wanting to give that up for possibly no real gain. And then, not every girl has the luxury to do so. For every boy struggling with this, there is a girl struggling with it just as much. But usually the attention of the boys is on the 'hot chicks'.

I can agree with your first paragraph, that all makes sense, as well as your comment about how girls experience these things just as much. What I'm confused about is why you're saying girls have "the luxury to expect confidence"?

llagrok:

Skoosh:
Many of the people I've met that consider themselves "nice guys" aren't actually as nice as they think. They treat women like a completely different species rather than simply a person. People differ on so many levels other than gender, it's a small aspect of what makes a person.

The "friend zone" is a stupid concept and sexist (regardless of which gender is using it, although it's almost entirely males complaining). Hey, it's perfectly fine to have friends of the opposite gender. Want to avoid it? Then make your intentions clear. It's not her fault you're not smooth enough to actually talk like an adult. And hey, people have the right to say no. I swear, a woman says yes, people yell slut. Woman says no, they cry friendzone.

Good thing you're here to stand up for all those poor victimized women. You go girl!

I'm kidding.

You're a joke.

Well done, you didn't actually state what you disagree with. I think you missed the point of what I said there. Somehow you got the idea that I was saying I'm saving a princess, which is exactly what I'm arguing against. People are people, we vary on way more than gender, stop pretending like a vagina makes someone an alien or a princess to save. Also the concept of "the horrible friendzone" is immature. Now how exactly does this make me a joke? Are you going to actually disagree with what I said, or just continue pretending I said something else?

Oh, unless it was the last 2 sentences that rubbed you wrong. Sexism still exists, just as many other forms of prejudice do. Pointing that out doesn't make me some crusader for women.

museofdoom:
Since this is a predominantly male community, I figured talking about this here would result in the most interesting feedback. And I suppose I'm in the mood for a little controversy.

So you become friends with a female, and you really like her in that way. You spend time with her, you're kind to her, and you're always doing her favors. Eventually you pluck up the courage to confess your attraction and then GASP! she doesn't like you that way, and wants to stay friends! So now you go to all your buddies and cry that you were "friend zoned". Oh my goodness how dare that biotch not have any romantic feelings towards you!! You weren't a jerk to her so you were entitled to a relationship with her! And since your plans to get a little action were in vain, you cease being friends with the girl. And now the girl is left without a friend, and the knowledge that you were only friends with her in hopes of getting in her pants.

Do you realize how ridiculous whining about being "friend zoned" is? And that if you really wanna be a nice guy, that you should be nice to girls even if you don't want in their pants?

Also, when a girl says "I wish I could find a guy like you" but they don't want you, think of it this way: (stealing the metaphor from a friend of mine) Say you are out shopping and you want to buy a red pair of shoes. You get to the shoe store and find a nice pair of red shoes, but that particular pair of shoes isn't exactly suited to your taste so you continue looking and maybe you end up getting a pair of shoes completely different to what you were originally looking for. So when a girl says, "I wish I could find a guy like you" it means she likes your qualities, but isn't attracted to you. This does not make her a hypocrite, or a bitch. So please stop whining and making yourselves out to be a victim of some heinous crime because the girl you like doesn't like you.

Sorry for the little rant, I've just seen too many "friend zone" related memes and rage comics recently. 0___0

That's why I pick on a girl if I like her....yeah I'm a kid inside so what?

great post by the way, I agree completely

EDIT: and to avoid any mod wrath I have never stopped being friends with a girl because she didn't like me the way I liked her...well not completely true but that was a special case.

Onjenae:
The friend zone does not exist usually guys that get put in the friendzone are either losers or very unattractive no offense.

BTW i notice that nice guys seem to think they are entitled to women alot of you so called nice guys really creep me out

you act as if women belong to you and seem to be mad at the world because you rejected and noboyd wants to sleep with you.

Being nice does not make you an interesting person, a good person, does not mean you are attractive and I've notice unlike men , us ladies usually do not tell men we find unttractive that they are unattractive.

I wish more women were like me I do not hang around or associate with males that call themselves nice guys which is ually code for pushover , cornball,creep,or just very unattractive socially awkard male

trhe reason nice guys get the friend zone is not because of them being nice its because they are usually ugly as hell.

That's ok,tons of girls think they're entitled to their own "edward cullen" so I see it as even, lol.

Doclector:
*snip*

THIS.

While I'm not entirely certain that the term "friend zone" is a wholly accurate representation of the problem at work in the situations to which it is applied, the people who detest those who have been friend-zoned as self-entitled and selfish lack an understanding of what the person being friend-zoned is experiencing. As someone who has, ultimately, been rejected, ignored, used, and abused more often than I care to count by those for whom I had romantic feelings, I can personally attest to the crushing weight that failure, dejection, and unrelenting loneliness can have on a person. When someone being friend-zoned severs his or her friendship with the other person involved, it ordinarily isn't out of malice or some underlying sense of objectification and greed; it is out of universal instinct of self-preservation. To remain connected with someone you are romantically interested in but who does not reciprocate those feelings is often too painful to bear. Perhaps the first or even the second time someone is friend-zoned is dismissible, but, after a certain point, it becomes a battle for self-preservation; one can either continue to be hurt or resign one's self to loneliness.

Just to start I agree entirely with the OP for the most part. No one is entitled to anything in any social forum, and if you're turned down you should deal with it, move on, and still be friends.

I have to ask of all those who say "Make your intentions know right away!" people, what happens if that wasn't your intention? What if your original intention, if any, was to just be friends, and it grew into something?

I only ask cause that happens to pretty well all the people in my friend group, though none bitch about it like they were entitled. If they do we give a swift bash to the head.

Xangba:

museofdoom:

"I wish I could find a guy like you" it means she likes your qualities, but isn't attracted to you.

That line right there I have issues with. That is literally like saying "I like everything about you except your face." And that most certainly is a bitch thing.

Anyway, it's never been about being felt owed anything (well some people think that way, but you have idiots with everything) it's about how a woman can complain about never finding a guy that supports her, or "treats her right" ect, ect, when the guy who has been friend-zoned has done nothing but that. You're putting the blame entirely on the guy who, most of the time, just does nothing except be a nice guy to the woman and develops romantic feelings. Guy expresses such to girl, guy gets spurned, and generally it's "whatever" at that point and things return to normal. Sure some guys keep their romantic feelings, but they're still friends and generally don't try anything else and eventually move on. I haven't seen many cases of the guy being nice just in order to date said woman, as those aren't the "nice guys" they claim to be. Most people don't bitch about being stuck there and think the girl is a bitch for it, most just bitch when a girl complains about never finding a decent guy.

By the way, a lot of the time the woman also gives the guy the idea to ask her out, because I've seen plenty of times with my friends the woman saying things like "You're such a great guy," or "You're single? Anybody would be lucky to date you though!" (yes, actual quotes) so she really isn't being blameless here. Also a lot of people have a rejection recovery period, where wondering "why doesn't she like me?" or something similar, but that's just rejection in general.

So TL;DR version is that the guy generally doesn't bitch and call the woman a bitch for the friend-zone, what you hear more often is wondering why a woman will complain about never finding a decent guy when they apparently have one sitting in the friend zone.

Wait, why is not being sexually attracted to a guy a bad thing? And since when was not finding someone physically attractive the same as considering them ugly?

Basically my point is women shouldn't be called bitches for expressing preference that isn't you (generally speaking)

Jun_Jun:

jimbob123432:
I agree with the "nice guys are not entitled to relationships" sentiments posted here, HOWEVER, in my experience I've been "friendzoned" by women who take it too far. I've been in sexual relationships with women who later tell me they "don't like me in that way". THESE are the women that I bitch about.

I don't think that's the friendzone man, that sounds like the 'friends with benefits zone'.
On that note I think with better communication this could probably be avoided by outlining what you want in a relationship with a girl, even if there is a relationship or just a one night stand with a girl you really like and you end up thinking 'great we hooked up she's my girlfriend now!'. I will also note, I'm not picking you apart here or singling you out or even making assumptions on what happened in your relationship (no offense!, really!) I'm just seeing quite a few of these sorts of posts in these types of threads and I thought I would just share what I know on this subject :)

I originally thought that, but she wanted to back to "just being friends" but there "might be a chance of us being together". That's what I have an issue with: the women (or men for that matter) who think that sex doesn't mean anything. To me, and a lot of people like me, think that sex MEANS you want a relationship.

okay i'll buy the stop whinning thing. but if a guy is going after a girl his priority is to hook up with her not to become friends (they're is a difference). so if she doesn't want him then he has every right to stop haning around her if he chooses. mabey he's too hurt to be around her anymore. mabey he wasn't looking for another friend so he's moved on.

If he wants to become friends afterwards then fine if not the deal with it (he has). that being said. nobody wants to listen to a guy bitch about a girl for too long so its best if he just shuts up and moves on...the same can be said about girls by the way

The term friendzone is just to make people who get rejected feel good about themself. Kind of like how ugly people say that beauty comes from within.

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