Can we talk about the "friend zone" and "nice guys" for a moment?

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museofdoom:
And now the girl is left without a friend, and the knowledge that you were only friends with her in hopes of getting in her pants.

You say that like it's a bad thing. In reality the initial reason any romantic relationship is started is sexual attraction - the main purpose in life is to (despite being circular logic) reproduce. Let's put it this way: You wouldn't "hit on" people you thought were ugly, would you?

^ Also, you don't want to stick around someone you 'want' in a romantical way, but can't have. Keeps your mind in a bad place, hinders you from moving on.

OK just a little thing here.

Someone said when I was in highschool that I was one of the most popular lads in the year... and at first I thought... lol wut? But this persons reasoning was oddly sound. I was nice and friendly to pretty much everyone. I didn't create enemies for myself and and was... (well apart from the druggies and the pissed every night crowds) I could just blend into any group. Not to say I did... but I could.

Now... why is there the stereotype that gya men have lots of friends who are women?
Because that they are gay these women can then have male friends... who they know don't want to fuck them >.>

Now I have never been in a relationship (I know what a shock, with various issues with suicidal depression and a follow on impact being low self esteem, you'd think I'd be a magnet[/sarcasm]) and fins that some times female friends will rather talk to me than other guys if they are not sure about a certain guy who isn't in a relationship (or they don't view it as a secure one)...
Why? Because I'm friendly and never seek anything more than friendship... because [-see list of mental problems-]

...its sort of related...

Doctor Glocktor:

And honestly, I really want to know what you think 'making your feelings clear' means. Do you ask her out? Do you tell her you find her attractive? You certainly sound like you don't intend to make it easy for the poor bastard.

And I want you to tell me if a guy saying 'I WANT CHA' after two days of hanging out is correct in what you mean.

Or perhaps... subtlety exists?!

When I say 'make your feelings clear' I mean something like this: "Hey I think you're really cute/neat/spiffy/awesome, and I would like to spend more time with you in hopes that perhaps we could pursue the possibility of a relationship." That would be making your feelings clear.

My boyfriend and I met, talked a lot, hung out a few times, and within that span of time he told me I was cute, and that he believed our personalities complimented each other perfectly, and he wanted to spend a lot more time with me. And voila, I knew his intentions, and where I stood with him, and now we are dating. It's not rocket science.

How hard is it to wrap your head around the concept of being honest? If you meet a girl, and you want to be more than friends, JUST DON'T BE FRIENDS and save you both a whole lot of butt hurt.

It's a different situation entirely if you are friends with a girl and develop feelings for her sometime during your friendship.

spacemutant IV:
^ Also, you don't want to stick around someone you 'want' in a romantical way, but can't have. Keeps your mind in a bad place, hinders you from moving on.

Bingo.

Some of the commentators here seem to think that a male should be obligated to remain friends with a female to save them from feeling "used." Almost as if a female having to suffer mentally is automatically more important than a male having to suffer in a similar way. No. Everyone is equal. And having reached that stalemate I only see it as logical to default to valuing yourself over the other person.

museofdoom:

How hard is it to wrap your head around the concept of being honest? If you meet a girl, and you want to be more than friends, JUST DON'T BE FRIENDS and save you both a whole lot of butt hurt.

That should work in theory but in practice I imagine that some people may suffer from great anxiety having to overcome the hurdle of being honest, from fear of embarrassment/rejection or the other person reacting negatively in some way - whether or not that would be a realistic outcome.

Shadowcreed:

Onjenae:

problem is most nice guys generally go for the super hot girls i would have more sympathy for nice guys if they actually went for females on their level but they tend to chase after the gils every other guy wants to fuck and gets mad when they are rejected by that girl.

And on what exactly are you basing this? I consider myself to be a genuinely nice guy, and I've really got an issue with these stuck up 'super hot girls' as you call them. I honestly take to the personality a lot more than just looks. Being out of their level? By appearance standard maybe, though genuine nice guys are far more empathetic and concern themselves with higher motives than 'oh shes hot I wanna bang her lets act all nice to her and get entitled'
A real 'nice guy' isn't looking for seks, if he is, then he's not a 'nice guy', simple as that. The real deal wants a real relationship, someone he can drop his guard around and be with... Getting mad when a girl doesn't like you makes no sense. It's her choice after all and you have no entitlement to that whatsoever, she's free to make her own decisions. To be fair it is a natural reaction, you got hurt, you get upset, its misplaced but understandable. If you can't understand that a guy gets mad at you for rejecting him and inflicting a grievous wound to his heart by doing so (if he was genuinely interested and happy to be around you) then that's a pretty self-centred view you've got there. Of course there are these players around that only act like it and don't really give a damn, but if you truly got someone that is the real deal, then you've really scarred him if you let him down too harshly. I'm not saying you shouldn't turn him down if you want to - I'm saying, be sodding understandable to what this guy is feeling. Don't go and tell him <WHAT? HAHAHA! you're fugly get the fuck off I want that other guy's dick!> that phrase is swirling trough my mind as I'm reading your posts, you sound like someone who would say such a thing.... To bring up a quote of yours;

Let him do his laundry and laugh

because he's really nice to you? What a real bitch thing to do, honestly. Its just exploiting someone.

by the way whats wrong with a girl wanting a hot guy ?? its hilrous how men are shallow as hel lbut god forbid a woman wants a man who is decent looking lmaooo men start to bitch, whine and complain about it

There's nothing wrong with that. As far as my knowledge goes, many women tent to look at personality more than looks though there's no penalty for doing the opposite, maybe its a bit more shallow but hey, looks matter, obviously. As pointed out by someone else somewhere in this thread (sorry I forgot who and I reallllly dont want to go trough the whole thing again xD)women bitch and moan just as much when a guy they like turns them down, its a natural reaction.

men have all these crazy standards for how they want a women to look and stuff but the minute a man can fall into most females standards of attractiveness we become shallow bitches lmaoooo thats crazy to me

What's crazy is that you seem to think all men want you to be that super hot photo model they dream of and ejaculate too... Everyone makes their own standards and yes, there is a general agreed perspective as to what men like to see, though this by far does not count as big as you may think. Personality is high on the list(at least for me, I'm hoping this is the case for many other men out there..)and I don't care if you're the #1 in the beauty contest, if you're a bitchy little c*** then you can get the hell away from me and start growing up in the real world, I don't want a woman that things she's all that and acts like she's entitled to that hot guy she thinks she is because she looks all that awesome. You're generally comming off like that to me right now, you complain about ugly men chasing girls that you deem above their level? What makes you think you're high up that level list of yours?

difference between me and the guys i complain about is im a woman lol i dont have to approach men, I dont get put in the friendzoine never have and never will lmaooo and when I want a guy I get him 1000% of the time

men cant say the same thing

I can be in the club by self lookingh all sad and i guarantee you by the end of the night i probably will get approached by 20 or more guys, everytime i walk down the street i get hit on I dont hit on men nor do i ever tell them they are good looking I let men do that to me therefore unlike you niceguys i know the person is already interested because they came to me not me to them

you see as a women i will never give you men that type of power i already know when a man likes me all i gotta do is wait for him to approach you on the other hand have to approach the woman and hope she does not turn you down

btw being superficial does not make you bitch you sound very sexiest honestyly reading through this thread i can tell msot of the nice guys are not alpha males there as reason most woman go after alpha males they havew masculine qualities nad they are not bitchy and effeminate like some of the men replying to this thread

I've actually just never had this problem...Any girl that I'm friends with is usually interested in me anyways. If I'm their friend as well...I never really wanted to date them in the first place. Keeps me out of problems like this.

Just because a guy is nice to me does not mean he's entitled to have me as his girlfriend. As for "friend zone", I'm not even sure why that term exists. When I make friends with a guy, it means I think they're nice enough to be my friend.

Jesus christ, there's a lot of sad replies here.

Half the posts are basically "in my experience this happened, so the best way to approach the opposite gender is ..."

Yeah right. This gender-based generalization is a joke. What men and women are attracted to are determined by a million factors, known and unknown. There is no surefire method to get a person, and people's motivations can differ wildly from one-another.

Time to join the thread with some off-topic observations.

- When you say things like "women like men with confidence" and try to go for that, then you are playing the odds.

- Kindness is a ploy for some and a genuine emotion for others. For most people it's the way they've been raised and taught to treat others. There are many exceptions.

- Women often tend to go for typical assholes because they have tendencies towards being straight forward, and are therefore far less work to bed/part with it. There are many exceptions.

- Men and women often want someone to spend their time with and share their interests with. There are many exceptions.

- Women want sex just as much as men do. There are many exceptions.

- Not all cultures are based around the hollywood-imposed dating-obsession. This is often the reason why many lack experience. There are many exceptions.

- Our bodies have us react to certain situations in certain ways. Since the degree to which we heed our bodies' impulses vary, there are many exceptions.

- Most of the time people will know that you are interested in them. People love power. People love being admired and desired. There are few ways in which you can control someone with a greater degree than when you hold their affections. There are many exceptions.

- Women generally hold a lower status then men in social standings, employment, and most aspects of modern society. There are many exceptions.

- People who generally find themselves in a position of what sociologists would refer to as "powerlessness" will often enjoy wielding power over someone for a change. There are many exceptions.

There are no excuses for toying with other people's hearts. Some do it instinctively without knowing it, and others do it for fun. The reasons vary, but nobody has the right to do this intentionally. Please be kind to your fellow man. Please stop worsening people's initial romantic-experiences with false hope. In the end we all suffer for it.

Deep down we all long for someone to share our time with. I do not believe that there are any exceptions. The leading sociological minds disagree.

I've never even heard the term "friend zoned" before. I wasn't even aware that people were complaining about that. Seems petty to me.

If you want to know your standing with somebody, just be up front and direct about it. Isn't communication essential for any relationship? I figured most people knew that.

I wonder what people actually really look for in a romantic relationship? Or, let me phrase this another way - what defines a romantic relationship, as opposed to friendship? For me, sex isn't really the defining factor. It's definitely the most notable difference between the relationship I have with my female friends, and the relationships I used to have with my girlfriends, but that's still not how I define the romantic relationship. It's not what I'm looking for.

What I'm looking for is, quite simply, someone I feel I care for at least as much as I care for myself. I'd like to take a little time to figure out if someone has that potential. Maybe a month or two, six at most. Then I tell them I'd like to go out with them. If they reject me, fine, we'll probably be friends, but having just explained that romance is, to me, an upgrade of friendship, and has no meaning whatsoever outside of that context, how many friendships can I develop before it all becomes just a little silly? Does thinking like that make me a push-over, spineless, contemptible "nice guy"? I'd really like to understand why that is. If not, what am I missing about this whole kerfuffle about nice guys and friend zones?

museofdoom:

Doctor Glocktor:

And honestly, I really want to know what you think 'making your feelings clear' means. Do you ask her out? Do you tell her you find her attractive? You certainly sound like you don't intend to make it easy for the poor bastard.

And I want you to tell me if a guy saying 'I WANT CHA' after two days of hanging out is correct in what you mean.

Or perhaps... subtlety exists?!

When I say 'make your feelings clear' I mean something like this: "Hey I think you're really cute/neat/spiffy/awesome, and I would like to spend more time with you in hopes that perhaps we could pursue the possibility of a relationship." That would be making your feelings clear.

My boyfriend and I met, talked a lot, hung out a few times, and within that span of time he told me I was cute, and that he believed our personalities complimented each other perfectly, and he wanted to spend a lot more time with me. And voila, I knew his intentions, and where I stood with him, and now we are dating. It's not rocket science.

How hard is it to wrap your head around the concept of being honest? If you meet a girl, and you want to be more than friends, JUST DON'T BE FRIENDS and save you both a whole lot of butt hurt.

It's a different situation entirely if you are friends with a girl and develop feelings for her sometime during your friendship.

To be honest, I'm not sure where I mentioned honesty, but I'll be sure to keep that in mind, thank you.

Anyways, you speak like you think what you say applies to every person.

Not everyone can guarantee that they want a relationship right off the bat; which is why getting to know someone is pretty important.

However, you flat out said that guys shouldn't be friends with girls beforehand if they may be interested in them. Why?

It's not always fair all the time. Think of it this way, if I said to you, that I wish I could find someone like you, then I am saying that I like your features, and I'm certainly hinting at a possibly attraction.

I've had this problem, but I didn't understand what was going on, and I still don't understand it really... Every few months, she'd say she liked me, then she didn't, then she did but wanted to stay friends, and finally she told me she was full on in love with me, only, after a few weeks, she was in a relationship with someone else. I was heartbroken, and I'm still talking too her, but we've been through allot. Just because I have been friendzoned, it doesn't really affect the friendship as it would for most people.

It's not that people think they're entitled to a relationship, it's the simple fact that some people have been led on, not only being nice, but constantly complementing them, then that is going to give the wrong impression.

Friendzone is easily avoided if ones intentions are clear from the get-go.

Raven's Nest:

archvile93:

Well I took a different quote to heart. From the words of Jean-Paul Satre, "Hell is other people." Also as I said before I doubt I'll ever hire a prostitute, because it is still rather expensive and I can't believe it really feels good enough to be worth the cost. I've come to the conclusion people's raving about it is the result social pressure and while I can't remember the exact term, it boils down to people will enjoy things more when they work hard for it by lying to themselves. When people have put a lot of time and effort into getting or maintianing something they will say it's better than it really is. Why? because they have to justify to themselves why they put so effort into it, and it's better to lie to themselves and say it's awsome than to let reailty hit them in the face and realize they spent so much time and effort on something pointless. This is one of the reasons abused spouses stay with husbands or wives. Also I don't believe there is anything morally wrong with being a prostitute. I still don't think it's a good profession to be in, but that's only because it's dangerous.

Sex really isn't the only reason people seek romantic companionship. I've never heard of a successful relationship based solely around sex. To me sex is nice, It's a nice way to blow off some steam, a nice way to reciprocate feelings to your partner, a nice way to gain intimacy, trust and understanding with another individual. Is it necessary? Absolutely not. You seem to have a warped idea that every body is talking sex, that it is the means to an end or the end itself. That couldn't be farther from the truth in a lot of cases.

Some people spend their lives pursuing sex, for sexual gratification's sake alone. But they are seriously in the minority. You need to get out and talk to people about this. Even at 22 i'm sure you will find peers around you that will tell you the same. I think it would be good for you to stop hiding yourself away and just talk to people, listen to people. Forget the media or porn or things that objectify and promote sex. Go and gather evidence for yourself, re-assess it and broaden your perspective on the whole issue. Perhaps just start with a forum, make a thread, ask people why they get into relationships, what makes them happy what makes them unhappy. That should at least interest you from the psychology angle.

I never said sex is the only reason people have relationship, but it's the only one I can really see hahving any value. I've never felt better being around others, and there is nothing I've been able to find that they can provide. It simpler and I feel much better alone.

Yeah. I "nice guys" make me sick and seriously. I don't even comprehend wtf being "friend zoned" is. I think it's just a way for losers to rationalize their inability to find someone they're romantically compatible with on account of them being losers.

Your post is bomb. I love you.

archvile93:

Raven's Nest:

archvile93:

Well I took a different quote to heart. From the words of Jean-Paul Satre, "Hell is other people." Also as I said before I doubt I'll ever hire a prostitute, because it is still rather expensive and I can't believe it really feels good enough to be worth the cost. I've come to the conclusion people's raving about it is the result social pressure and while I can't remember the exact term, it boils down to people will enjoy things more when they work hard for it by lying to themselves. When people have put a lot of time and effort into getting or maintianing something they will say it's better than it really is. Why? because they have to justify to themselves why they put so effort into it, and it's better to lie to themselves and say it's awsome than to let reailty hit them in the face and realize they spent so much time and effort on something pointless. This is one of the reasons abused spouses stay with husbands or wives. Also I don't believe there is anything morally wrong with being a prostitute. I still don't think it's a good profession to be in, but that's only because it's dangerous.

Sex really isn't the only reason people seek romantic companionship. I've never heard of a successful relationship based solely around sex. To me sex is nice, It's a nice way to blow off some steam, a nice way to reciprocate feelings to your partner, a nice way to gain intimacy, trust and understanding with another individual. Is it necessary? Absolutely not. You seem to have a warped idea that every body is talking sex, that it is the means to an end or the end itself. That couldn't be farther from the truth in a lot of cases.

Some people spend their lives pursuing sex, for sexual gratification's sake alone. But they are seriously in the minority. You need to get out and talk to people about this. Even at 22 i'm sure you will find peers around you that will tell you the same. I think it would be good for you to stop hiding yourself away and just talk to people, listen to people. Forget the media or porn or things that objectify and promote sex. Go and gather evidence for yourself, re-assess it and broaden your perspective on the whole issue. Perhaps just start with a forum, make a thread, ask people why they get into relationships, what makes them happy what makes them unhappy. That should at least interest you from the psychology angle.

I never said sex is the only reason people have relationship, but it's the only one I can really see hahving any value. I've never felt better being around others, and there is nothing I've been able to find that they can provide. It simpler and I feel much better alone.

Then be alone, and stop spreading garbage. If you want to be alone, then why are you even commenting on a thread like this? you're trolling, either intentionally or unintentionally, and if your only viewpoint is "Sex is all that matters" because you don't like human companionship, then perhaps you shouldn't discuss it, because you have no vested interest in the topic. You can't gain anything from reading it, because you're closed off, and no one should listen to what you say about companionship because you're unable to make friends.

This isn't really meant as a personal attack, I just think it's silly to discuss something when you have absolutely no interest in it other then to poke holes in other people. It would be like me joining a discussion about stamp collecting just to say I don't like collecting stamps, but I think it's a really silly thing to do because I obviously know so much about it.

museofdoom:
Since this is a predominantly male community, I figured talking about this here would result in the most interesting feedback. And I suppose I'm in the mood for a little controversy.

So you become friends with a female, and you really like her in that way. You spend time with her, you're kind to her, and you're always doing her favors. Eventually you pluck up the courage to confess your attraction and then GASP! she doesn't like you that way, and wants to stay friends! So now you go to all your buddies and cry that you were "friend zoned". Oh my goodness how dare that biotch not have any romantic feelings towards you!! You weren't a jerk to her so you were entitled to a relationship with her! And since your plans to get a little action were in vain, you cease being friends with the girl. And now the girl is left without a friend, and the knowledge that you were only friends with her in hopes of getting in her pants.

Do you realize how ridiculous whining about being "friend zoned" is? And that if you really wanna be a nice guy, that you should be nice to girls even if you don't want in their pants?

Also, when a girl says "I wish I could find a guy like you" but they don't want you, think of it this way: (stealing the metaphor from a friend of mine) Say you are out shopping and you want to buy a red pair of shoes. You get to the shoe store and find a nice pair of red shoes, but that particular pair of shoes isn't exactly suited to your taste so you continue looking and maybe you end up getting a pair of shoes completely different to what you were originally looking for. So when a girl says, "I wish I could find a guy like you" it means she likes your qualities, but isn't attracted to you. This does not make her a hypocrite, or a bitch. So please stop whining and making yourselves out to be a victim of some heinous crime because the girl you like doesn't like you.

Sorry for the little rant, I've just seen too many "friend zone" related memes and rage comics recently. 0___0

Thankyou so much for that, being a girl and being accused of being le evil bitch friend zoning my best friend through Highschool I do find this as a petty excuse for 'I can't be bothered confessing my feelings to the girl when I first meet her so I'm going to pretend to be her friend for 6 years and chuck a bitch fit when she doesn't enjoy being feeled up while being engaged to someone else' y'know what? I'm going to copy paste one of my old posts:

Jun_Jun:
I'm female and I had a friend in the friend zone (he really had a thing for me) and before you all yell out 'evviill bitch give him a chance!!'

Ok for those of you that have read through this whole post, thankyou! I have one final point to make though, do not linger on to the friend zone with a woman you have feelings with it will make it worse, showing tenacity and patience can pay off with many things, this is not one of them. The fact that this guy still thought that if he played his cards right that he could still be with me even after 2 years of not talking to him, even after I was already taken and engaged? seriously? I'm not trying to be cruel and crush your dreams but there is a time to give up and move on, yes you can still be friends with her, yes you can be nice to her but don't do it for the wrong reasons of thinking 'she will think I'm a nice guy!' Do it because you're her friend and she trusts you, there is no worse feeling than that trust being betrayed and that friendship being destroyed.

Ok I'm raising my fire proof wall for all the flame coming my way after posting this.

I'm trying not to be mean here but think of their feelings, if you truly care about their happiness you will let them make their own decisions and be with who they want to be with, if you're not the right person, then accept that and move on.

Also I realize this is badly written and yes the first part is quite juvenile but that's who I was back then :)

Also I will guess I have been ninja'd on this but I will link this for good measure:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/lovefaq/9240-Nice-Guys-Suck

I was recently friend-zoned after we had already had sex... It's like some next level shit, she only wanted to hang out and fuck and not date... Once I showed her some real affection and an interest getting romantically involved- BAM!- Friend zone.

Ladies: You're confusing, and I give up.

I agree with the "nice guys are not entitled to relationships" sentiments posted here, HOWEVER, in my experience I've been "friendzoned" by women who take it too far. I've been in sexual relationships with women who later tell me they "don't like me in that way". THESE are the women that I bitch about.

Altorin:

archvile93:

I never said sex is the only reason people have relationship, but it's the only one I can really see hahving any value. I've never felt better being around others, and there is nothing I've been able to find that they can provide. It simpler and I feel much better alone.

Then be alone, and stop spreading garbage. If you want to be alone, then why are you even commenting on a thread like this? you're trolling, either intentionally or unintentionally, and if your only viewpoint is "Sex is all that matters" because you don't like human companionship, then perhaps you shouldn't discuss it, because you have no vested interest in the topic. You can't gain anything from reading it, because you're closed off, and no one should listen to what you say about companionship because you're unable to make friends.

This isn't really meant as a personal attack, I just think it's silly to discuss something when you have absolutely no interest in it other then to poke holes in other people. It would be like me joining a discussion about stamp collecting just to say I don't like collecting stamps, but I think it's a really silly thing to do because I obviously know so much about it.

Sorry for interrupting but I thought your post was really uncalled for. I don't believe this gentleman to be trolling at all. Our conversation is completely off-topic as far as the thread is concerned. If he was that closed off and uninterested he wouldn't be replying!

There is a much, much more annoying troll on this page if you want to argue with one...

jimbob123432:
I agree with the "nice guys are not entitled to relationships" sentiments posted here, HOWEVER, in my experience I've been "friendzoned" by women who take it too far. I've been in sexual relationships with women who later tell me they "don't like me in that way". THESE are the women that I bitch about.

I don't think that's the friendzone man, that sounds like the 'friends with benefits zone'.
On that note I think with better communication this could probably be avoided by outlining what you want in a relationship with a girl, even if there is a relationship or just a one night stand with a girl you really like and you end up thinking 'great we hooked up she's my girlfriend now!'. I will also note, I'm not picking you apart here or singling you out or even making assumptions on what happened in your relationship (no offense!, really!) I'm just seeing quite a few of these sorts of posts in these types of threads and I thought I would just share what I know on this subject :)

Jun_Jun:
Snip snip ^_^

I love you! The article you linked was a flawless description of what's wrong with "Nice Guys TM". As for the guy you were friends with that had feelings for you, it's really unfortunate that he couldn't just take the hint and let go :/

Anyways, I agree with you that patience works really well with other aspects of life but not with romance! And also that there are times where you need to give up and get on with life.

Really in short, I love your entire post, and it's perfect. :3

I think the basic problem is men are really fucking desperate for anything that could even pass as a relationship so when a woman tells them they don't think a relationship between the two could work they flip the fuck out because the very notion that a relationship between them and any woman they might consider a potential mate might be unviable is just unfathomable.

Maybe men mellow out once they've actually failed in one or two actual relationships and find out relationships are pretty hard work and pretty stressful especially if you force them.

Onjenae:
[quote="Shadowcreed" post="18.364603.14254378"][quote="Onjenae" post="18.364603.14254139"]

difference between me and the guys i complain about is im a woman lol i dont have to approach men, I dont get put in the friendzoine never have and never will lmaooo and when I want a guy I get him 1000% of the time

men cant say the same thing

I can be in the club by self lookingh all sad and i guarantee you by the end of the night i probably will get approached by 20 or more guys, everytime i walk down the street i get hit on I dont hit on men nor do i ever tell them they are good looking I let men do that to me therefore unlike you niceguys i know the person is already interested because they came to me not me to them

you see as a women i will never give you men that type of power i already know when a man likes me all i gotta do is wait for him to approach you on the other hand have to approach the woman and hope she does not turn you down

btw being superficial does not make you bitch you sound very sexiest honestyly reading through this thread i can tell msot of the nice guys are not alpha males there as reason most woman go after alpha males they havew masculine qualities nad they are not bitchy and effeminate like some of the men replying to this thread

you're mean and hypocritical miss.

So what if some of the men on this thread are Effeminate. That dosent mean you have free range to tease them. If we demeand women for having masculine qualites then none of the feminist movemonets would have happened.

we dont want to exclude you from the discusion but please come back when you have something to build people up instead of tearing them down.

I've been friend-zoned countless times. Though to be fair I am going after guys and like 97% of them are going to be straight so I can't exactly whine and bitch about it the way straight guys do.

And holy shit, do some of them whine and bitch about it! The passive-aggressive depressing Facebook statuses of one of my friends alone are enough to make me want to slap him. I don't know why I keep going out for drinks with him to let him vent to me about it, it's always the same boring shit.

But I guess it'd be kind of a dick move to just yell at him to grow a pair and move the fuck on because that shit happens, right guys?

museofdoom:

Jun_Jun:
Snip snip ^_^

I love you! The article you linked was a flawless description of what's wrong with "Nice Guys TM". As for the guy you were friends with that had feelings for you, it's really unfortunate that he couldn't just take the hint and let go :/

Anyways, I agree with you that patience works really well with other aspects of life but not with romance! And also that there are times where you need to give up and get on with life.

Really in short, I love your entire post, and it's perfect. :3

Wow! I wasn't expecting such a kind response, ummm.. thankyou! :D
There's usually so much venom aimed at women/girls in these sorts of threads, your response just gave me my daily dose of happy... here have a video of a owl.

Jun_Jun:
snippy :D

You are officially my favorite person on escapist right now! Owls are like, one of my favorite animals ever! That video made my week I think :3

TheVioletBandit:

Onjenae:
The friend zone does not exist usually guys that get put in the friendzone are either losers or very unattractive no offense.

BTW i notice that nice guys seem to think they are entitled to women alot of you so called nice guys really creep me out

you act as if women belong to you and seem to be mad at the world because you rejected and noboyd wants to sleep with you.

Being nice does not make you an interesting person, a good person, does not mean you are attractive and I've notice unlike men , us ladies usually do not tell men we find unttractive that they are unattractive.

I wish more women were like me I do not hang around or associate with males that call themselves nice guys which is ually code for pushover , cornball,creep,or just very unattractive socially awkard male

trhe reason nice guys get the friend zone is not because of them being nice its because they are usually ugly as hell.

Wow, your post is just so extremely shallow, arrogant, hateful, and judgmental. I am really glad for those men you deem "ugly as hell" that you don't want to associate with them, and if you ever see me I hope you think I'm ugly as hell too so you'll stay the fuck away from me.

your my new hero, HIGH 5

Onjenae:

Saviordd1:
image
Seriously, these get annoying.

Self confidence is everything, if a girl is only looking for a super hot dude or a popular one she isn't worth your time ANYWAY.

"Nice guys" want a girlfriend? Grow up, stop being what is essentially sexist and try looking at girls for more then their damned looks.

problem is most nice guys generally go for the super hot girls i would have more sympathy for nice guys if they actually went for females on their level but they tend to chase after the gils every other guy wants to fuck and gets mad when they are rejected by that girl.

by the way whats wrong with a girl wanting a hot guy ?? its hilrous how men are shallow as hel lbut god forbid a woman wants a man who is decent looking lmaooo men start to bitch, whine and complain about it

men have all these crazy standards for how they want a women to look and stuff but the minute a man can fall into most females standards of attractiveness we become shallow bitches lmaoooo thats crazy to me

I don't like it when either gender does it.

Guy only wants the girl with a nice T&A? Get the hell out, the world doesn't need you.
Girl only wants a guy with a 1000 pack? Go away, you're annoying me already.

Though sadly a lot of people do have that double standard.
/sigh whatever.

MASTACHIEFPWN:
STAY FRIENDS WITH THEM Even after they said they only want friendship!

Try to see it from the other side, not all of us are so shallow that we stopped being friends with "friend zoned" girls because we can't bang them and not all of you girls are as entirely blameless in these situations as you make it out to be.

In my case I've been "friend zoned" by three people. One of them I'm still friends with. The first one mixed sex into the equation right off the bat (I was a virgin when we met) and we started off doing the deed for a few weeks. Then she reversed course and said she only wanted to be friends. I was hurt, confused and angry. You really want to be friends with someone who is hurting, confused by your actions (that you can't or won't explain) and actively lashes out at you verbally when you try to help? Didn't think so. Granted, I was acting like a baby, but I think everyone is entitled to that the first time they get their heart broken, so long as they learn their lesson and don't repeat.

The second one was cool people, I was a bit older and more experienced, not prone to heartbreak like I had been with the one before. There was no sex this time, I asked her out, she turned me down and I left. I hadn't intended to stay melancholy and never speak to her again, but a few hours after I went to have a drink or three I start getting texts from mutual friends about how she's making a big joke of the whole thing to mutual friends, acquaintences and strangers. It's one thing to turn me down because you aren't attracted, I've done that with a few girls, it happens. It's quite another to then take that disappointment and turn it into a public shaming. Would I have been her friend after she turned me down? Probably. After she turned me down and then laughed about it to everyone who would listen? Hell no.

The third one I asked out, she turned me down (not attracted to me like that) I went off and took a day to suck it up. We still hang out, drink on the weekends and play video games together all the time. The difference here? She was straight from the start about what her feelings were and didn't feel the need to embarrass.

Eternal Taros:
What?
No kidding. What exactly is your argument here?
It's not about the distinction between spineless and not. The distinction is between a guy who cares about the girl and a guy who doesn't.
Not between one that is spineless and one that is controlling.

You said "being a controlling, aggressive dickhead is the only way to get girls." Where does the cares/doesn't care come from?

Also, caring, like being nice, is a requisite, not a goal. If all someone can offer to a girl is caring about her, he's coming up short.

Eternal Taros:
Again, what?
No one is trying to answer anything in a mathematical sense.
No one even asked a question that was meant to be taken in a figurative manner.

[...]

No such connection exists with regards to the "Guy like you" issue.
Interestingly, you offer no alternative interpretations, instead seeking refuge in the idea that we're missing something here.
What then, do you suggest she was trying to say?

What was said in the post you replied to. She's looking for someone with the traits she likes about you. I replied to a post were you were analysing that line to the letter.

Eternal Taros:
Stop being sexist.

There are differences between men and women on average. Knowing and understanding those (and of course, understanding that this is about averages and not about the individual level) will greatly help in matters like these.

being straight forward from the get go is fine. However what if you didn't realize that you were really attracted to the person until several months after being friends with them?

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