Woah Woah Woah. Okay, let's talk about women for a second.

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So upon reading through that thread on super models, I saw some pretty awful commentary.

There was a lot of shaming being done, and stereotypes and generalizations being thrown. So let me make some things clear.

1) Just because a woman is thin, doesn't mean she's anorexic.
2)Some women are anorexic or bulimic, and that doesn't mean they are a bad person, they are suffering terribly.
3)Being pretty doesn't mean they lack a personality, or kindness or intelligence.
4)There is nothing wrong with girls who make a living from modeling. If they love doing it, then that's perfectly ok!
5)A thin woman isn't any less of a woman than a woman who has curves or is larger. All women are equal and all bodies are good bodies.

Also, while we are on the topic of women, I would like to say that people need to stop slut shaming. Like, it's a problem. People seem to think that how much skin a woman chooses to show is directly proportional to how much self respect they have. People also like to shame women who enjoy having sex. STOP IT. Girls can enjoy having sex, casual sex, kinky sex, and if they want to show boobs on the internet that's fine too. Not everyone has to uphold the same morals.

Sorry for ranting, I just had a lot of feelings. (and I'm not attacking men here, girls are perfectly capable of slut shaming and being sexist. It actually happens quite a bit.)

True stuff right there, however from my experience, people that are like that (not just women), are generally not very nice, or someone i'd like to spend time with. But you're right, people shouldn't be insulted for being anorexic or bulimic, that's fucking horrible.

museofdoom:
snip

Yep a dislike of women seems common here. Heck I just got done talking to a guy who basically said a relationship to him, was a place to loose money and put his dick in. Nice guy @_@.

The first few posts of that thread worried me.

According to some people super models are glorified mannequins.

I don't think that's fair, a person is a person no matter what occupation they do.

captcha: well done

I'm thankful this isn't a Katawa Shoujo thread. :P

Volf:

museofdoom:
snip

Yep a dislike of women seems common here. Heck I just got done talking to a guy who basically said a relationship to him, was a place to loose money and put his dick in. Nice guy @_@.

Oh what a lovely guy! Objectifying/dehumanizing women is a pretty common thing, and it's very very not good.

It's sad that some people need to be told "women are people too".

Honestly, these models are doing what everyone does. They take the characteristics that they were born with and turn it into a career. Personally I was born fairly intelligent, so why not pursue something in the computer science field. A model is born with the bone structure to match society's standard's of beauty, so would it not be the best choice for him/her to pursue something where they have a natural advantage?

Models are people too, some are dicks and some are awesomely nice. Though I think to characterize them as glorified mannequins is a little harsh as we all know, you're not the thing that you do.

museofdoom:

Volf:

museofdoom:
snip

Yep a dislike of women seems common here. Heck I just got done talking to a guy who basically said a relationship to him, was a place to loose money and put his dick in. Nice guy @_@.

Oh what a lovely guy! Objectifying/dehumanizing women is a pretty common thing, and it's very very not good.

It's sad that some people need to be told "women are people too".

I mean I may not agree with alot of women on this site, but I draw the line at "it just a place to put my dick".

I only respect women if they respect themselves. (sorry, but I do)

Your point is true though. Many models are great people. Although, some are just downright bitches and you can't change that. You shouldn't generalise people for what they do, tis' just wrong.

Well, I agree. A person's body belongs to them, and what they do with it is up to them (as long as they don't hurt anyone else in the process).

Too often people make the leap from "I, personally, dislike activity X" to "ACTIVITY X IS IMMORAL AND ANYONE WHO DOES IT IS UTTER SCUM!!!"

People shouldn't be insulted for being too fat or too thin. Obviously, from a medical standpoint, it is unhealthy to be obese or anorexic. But the worst thing you can do is to insult them.

If you want someone to have a healthy weight, the best thing we can all do is to help them and convince them that we are on THEIR side. That we care about them, and that we want them to be better. Screaming insults at them does not help. All it does is drive them away or shatter any remaining self-confidence that they have, which helps no one.

People are so quick to judge others on their looks, because they can't help but think that they are tied up in how another person looks. Subconsciously, a lot of people think that someone looks or dresses a certain way in order to judge them or influence them. This is ludicrous. How someone else looks or dresses has no bearing on anyone else, nor should it.

I have nothing against models - if that's what they want to do, so be it. Some claim that they perpetuate an unrealistic body image for young women - but that's more the fault of the marketers, who choose to put these models on billboards. It's not the fault of the models themselves. If you're going to blame anyone for bad body image, blame fashion DESIGNERS, not the models they hire.

It's like when some of my friends blame the Chinese for "Stealing our jobs" - they didn't "steal" our jobs. They were GIVEN our jobs by our BOSSES, and why wouldn't they accept it? It's not the chinese people's fault that they were offered the jobs, and it's not the models fault that marketers, fashion designers and business people use specific body types in their marketing.

As for sex - as long as it's between mentally sound, consenting adults, hell, go for it. Do whatever it is you want. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone. And by hurt I mean, badly hurt or injure.

People are quick to judge others because they secretly think that everything revolves around them. "I dislike the way those people dress! ARRRRGGH! I must voice my displeasure because how DARE they dress in a way I don't like! They should have known I didn't like it! They are intentionally doing it to infuriate me!" or "I can't imagine myself doing X - those people are doing X, how disgusting they are!". People need to realize that the world does not revolve around them. How others dress and act has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYONE ELSE (as long as it doesn't hurt anyone). Live your life the way you want to, let others live their life the way they want to.

There are more things to worry about than whether or not someone else is obese or anorexic. That is their problem. Either help them, or leave them alone, but their problem is their problem, not yours. If someone else is grossly obese, or anorexic, the only thing that tells you is that they have an eating disorder. That's all it tells you. They could be nice, mean, communist, libertarian, religious, atheist - you can't tell that by someone's weight. All you can tell is that they have a medical or eating disorder.

And how that affects anyone else, I don't know. Why judge someone due to a problem that they have which doesn't affect you? Do you judge someone with premature male baldness? No, that would be absurd. Do you judge someone because they are shorter or taller than you? That would be absurd as well. Granted, we have control over our weight, but at the end of the day, it's just weight. It's just body size. It affects the individual, period - not you.

Now, some would argue (including many of my fellow med students) that we should judge obese people because obesity is bad and impacts the health system and drains resources. Yeah, well, LOTS of things do that. The BMJ recently published a study conclusively linking excess consumption of red meat to an increased risk of certain types of cancer. Should we heckle and judge anyone who eats a beef burger? Those who play video games excessively are at a greater risk of developing RSI and other joint disorders. Do you shout insults against anyone who plays Diablo III? Motorcycles are so dangerous that some doctors call them "Donorcycles" due to the amount of severely brain damaged motorcycle accident victims we see routinely. Driving motorcycles increases the risk of serious injury and consequently, the use of medical resources. Do we slam and humiliate motorcycle drivers? No.

NO ONE is perfect. No one is free from all problems. I'm not a religious man in any way, but even I find some useful tips from the Bible: " why behold you the speck that is in your brother's eye, but consider not the beam that is in your own eye?"

My view is simple. Hating either gender is fucking ridiculous because if it wasn't for a woman, you would never have been born and if it wasn't for a man, you would never have existed at all. There... well, maybe if you're a misanthrope or something.

As for the model thing, they're free to do whatever they want, like everyone else in free corners of the world. That includes their appearance. I'm not into overly skinny women with bizarre hair styles though, but if they want to do that stuff, fine by me.

museofdoom:
Not everyone has to uphold the same morals.

And not everyone has to not call someone a slut. I think you are forgetting that this is the internet, and more importantly if a person really enjoys showing skin or having sex then they don't need someone defending them because they should be comfortable with who they are.

Well, they have two X chromosomes, and they sometimes give birth to children... Oh! You mean, talk about specific things! Okay!

museofdoom:

1) Just because a woman is thin, doesn't mean she's anorexic.
2)Some women are anorexic or bulimic, and that doesn't mean they are a bad person, they are suffering terribly.
3)Being pretty doesn't mean they lack a personality, or kindness or intelligence.
4)There is nothing wrong with girls who make a living from modeling. If they love doing it, then that's perfectly ok!
5)A thin woman isn't any less of a woman than a woman who has curves or is larger. All women are equal and all bodies are good bodies.

I agree! Except for five. I have no idea what you mean. Sickly bodies are not good. Dead bodies are not good. Heavenly bodies are too far away to be good... except for the sun. Good ol' Sol! Such a cute little star. But I digress.

Also, while we are on the topic of women, I would like to say that people need to stop slut shaming. Like, it's a problem. People seem to think that how much skin a woman chooses to show is directly proportional to how much self respect they have. People also like to shame women who enjoy having sex. STOP IT. Girls can enjoy having sex, casual sex, kinky sex, and if they want to show boobs on the internet that's fine too. Not everyone has to uphold the same morals.

Yep. I'm good with this. In Thinker's America, those who oppose this view will be smacked upside the head.

astrav1:

museofdoom:
Not everyone has to uphold the same morals.

And not everyone has to not call someone a slut. I think you are forgetting that this is the internet, and more importantly if a person really enjoys showing skin or having sex then they don't need someone defending them because they should be comfortable with who they are.

Yes they should be comfortable with who they are! But they don't need to be constantly shamed by society for enjoying sex and showing skin! Calling someone a slut is shaming them, and it's not a nice thing to do at all. No one likes being called a slut. And I am fully aware that this is the internet but that doesn't mean people should use that as an excuse to not be a decent human being.

museofdoom:

4)There is nothing wrong with girls who make a living from modeling. If they love doing it, then that's perfectly ok!
5)A thin woman isn't any less of a woman than a woman who has curves or is larger. All women are equal and all bodies are good bodies.

While 1 through 3 are basically undeniable, logical fact, these two are subjective. One can have a valid objections to modeling as a career.

As for 5, a thin woman is, by definition, less of a woman than one who is larger. ;)

Joking aside, though, again, that is not 'clear' at all. That's your opinion. I personally find the emaciated look profoundly unattractive. "If I'm seeing ribs, I want to be seeing a side of cornbread and a bottle of BBQ sauce."

Also, while we are on the topic of women, I would like to say that people need to stop slut shaming. Like, it's a problem. People seem to think that how much skin a woman chooses to show is directly proportional to how much self respect they have. People also like to shame women who enjoy having sex. STOP IT. Girls can enjoy having sex, casual sex, kinky sex, and if they want to show boobs on the internet that's fine too. Not everyone has to uphold the same morals.

You contradict yourself here. You're saying that people need to stop judging others who don't have the same morals, while you go one step further and try to proscribe the behavior of others who don't share your morals. IMO, you're the one out of line here, not them, and here's why: The girls you're talking about (and everyone else) have every right to behave however they like (within community standards of law, of course), but so do their detractors. They DON'T have the right to dictate how someone else responds to their behavior.

People don't "need to stop slut-shaming." Girls who slut up need to accept that it's going to happen and grow a thicker skin about it.

The few of us holding such low opinions of other people tar the rest of the forum population with the same stick, so I've just had a conversation with the OP of the same supermodel thread who sees the forum in general as a bunch of bitter guys who hate women!

Opinions are opinions, we can disagree with them as a majority or a minority, but at the end of the day none of it becomes fact.

Volf:

museofdoom:
snip

Yep a dislike of women seems common here. Heck I just got done talking to a guy who basically said a relationship to him, was a place to loose money and put his dick in. Nice guy @_@.

So that makes him, by his own admissions, an ATM and feminine hygiene product.

Come to think of it, his definition for "women" would match the definition for "my hand"

OT: we should be nice to each other regardless of genetically inherited characteristics. Plus the girl hating has to stop. At first is was cute but now it is just getting old.

The Thinker:

I agree! Except for five. I have no idea what you mean. Sickly bodies are not good. Dead bodies are not good. Heavenly bodies are too far away to be good... except for the sun. Good ol' Sol! Such a cute little star. But I digress.

Ok corpses aren't included in that obviously. As for sickly bodies, sure it's not healthy, but a person with a sickly body shouldn't be shamed. People with anorexia or bulimia that have sickly bodies are suffering more horribly than is possible to imagine, and they don't need people telling them they're disgusting to add to it. Also, other things cause sickly bodies, like cancer for instance. Does a cancer patient really need to be told they're not beautiful because the chemo made them extremely thin?

"all bodies are good bodies" basically translates to "everyone is beautiful."

museofdoom:

astrav1:

museofdoom:
Not everyone has to uphold the same morals.

And not everyone has to not call someone a slut. I think you are forgetting that this is the internet, and more importantly if a person really enjoys showing skin or having sex then they don't need someone defending them because they should be comfortable with who they are.

Yes they should be comfortable with who they are! But they don't need to be constantly shamed by society for enjoying sex and showing skin! Calling someone a slut is shaming them, and it's not a nice thing to do at all. No one likes being called a slut. And I am fully aware that this is the internet but that doesn't mean people should use that as an excuse to not be a decent human being.

Well the way I see it if a person is truly being themselves then what society thinks doesn't matter. If they do feel shame I think there's something wrong with that. That doesn't mean however that outside of the internet people should be disparaged for who they are, unless they hurt others.

museofdoom:

Volf:

museofdoom:
snip

Yep a dislike of women seems common here. Heck I just got done talking to a guy who basically said a relationship to him, was a place to loose money and put his dick in. Nice guy @_@.

Oh what a lovely guy! Objectifying/dehumanizing women is a pretty common thing, and it's very very not good.

It's sad that some people need to be told "women are people too".

The guy is talking about me. He's a terrible listener. Even though it's perfectly normal to side with someone on something, don't always believe it blindly.

I can respect a woman if she enjoys sex, showing her body etc, so long as it's for herself. I have a problem with a woman being a slut if she's insecure and is looking for "love". I have a problem with a woman if she needs to look good to deserve any kind of attention. But you know what? I feel exactly the same about men in that respect. These things apply to either gender in my mind.

To give you an idea, my first girlfriend broke up with me about 4 years ago, in that time she has told me she basically sleeps with a new guy every other week and loves it. And you know what? I'm actually happy for her. She does it because she enjoys it, not because she wants attention, and I respect that. And I say the same for men who sleep around, but are at least honest with their intentions. Meaning, if they lie to a girl in order to use them that's terrible. But if they're honest with just wanting some fun I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that anything that can be used to judge women can also be used to judge men. It's called just judging humans in general. But the most important thing is to judge them on their character, and to realise no matter how many bitches or assholes you meet in a field there will always be kind people there to, and vice versa. There will always be outliers.

as far as I know modeling is not as glamourous as it may seem...aside from it being highly competitive and short lived..you dont even get paid that much

I was always thin, in highscool people thourght I was anerexic

museofdoom:

"all bodies are good bodies" basically translates to "everyone is beautiful."

I assume this is "internal beauty". Because not everyone is externally beautiful, but a lot of people have redeeming qualities.

GethBall:
I only respect women if they respect themselves. (sorry, but I do)

.

but that comes down to YOUR definition of somone respecting themselfs, in a way your holding them to yout standards and morals

like sya mabey Im wearing some really short denim shorts, and I like my demin shorts (I really do)

but you interperet that "look at her..dressed up like that, obviosuly gunning for male attention, does she have respect or herself?" therefore you dont respect me

even though I just wear the shorts because I like them

targren:
snip

Basically, what you just said with that entire post is: "I can be a jerk and insult someone and condemn their behavior or their body type because I don't personally agree with it or find it attractive." Also, just because you don't find something attractive, doesn't mean that other people don't or shouldn't.

I don't mean everyone has to think the same way, I just think that no one should be chastised for how they choose to behave as long as it's not infringing upon the rights of others, hurting someone, or against the law.

The whole point of this thread was: Stop judging, be a decent human being, and be accepting of other people's behavior and physical appearance even if it doesn't line up with your own beliefs and/or moral code or suit your particular taste.

The Thinker:

museofdoom:

"all bodies are good bodies" basically translates to "everyone is beautiful."

I assume this is "internal beauty". Because not everyone is externally beautiful, but a lot of people have redeeming qualities.

But really, external beauty is a matter of opinion. Everyone is beautiful to someone :)

And internal beauty is a huge point too!

Vault101:

GethBall:
I only respect women if they respect themselves. (sorry, but I do)

.

but that comes down to YOUR definition of somone respecting themselfs, in a way your holding them to yout standards and morals

like sya mabey Im wearing some really short denim shorts, and I like my demin shorts (I really do)

but you interperet that "look at her..dressed up like that, obviosuly gunning for male attention, does she have respect or herself?" therefore you dont respect me

even though I just wear the shorts because I like them

I meant that in a way that they respect themselves. Like they believe in their own morals and standards.

How they present themselves facotrises in there somewhere but not that much. (I'm just really old fashioned, that's all).

I agree with most of your points, namely how a man who has sex with lots of women is celebrated while a woman who does with men is a slut. That in itself is hypocritical and wrong and I agree everyone should enjoy their body as much as they want.

But I can't agree with your point on supermodels. My friend is a photographer and he tells me 95% of them are bitches who see you as invisible and if you open your mouth they think your hitting on them and think of themselves as gods gift to the world. That generalization exists because they created it. I'm sure that that 5% are wonderful people, but get drowned out by the majority. I would rather date a normal woman rather then a self entitled princess.

Zeckt:

But I can't agree with your point on supermodels. 95% of them are bitches who see you as invisible and if you open your mouth they think your hitting on them and think of themselves as gods gift to the world. That generalization exists because they created it. I'm sure that that 5% are wonderful people, but get drowned out by the majority.

Wow. You must really know a lot of super models personally to have formed that opinion! I'm impressed with how much you know! Like, I wish I had the opportunity to meet all the supermodels in the world!!

All sarcasm aside, you are generalizing horribly. Sure, not every model is going to be super nice, but that doesn't mean that all of them are nasty and awful.

Let me once again bring up how the fashion industry works: when a designer/agency/magazine is looking for models, they want someone who will be pleasant to work with. NO ONE wants to work with a self important bitch.

My aunt and uncle work in the industry, and have met designers, models, etc. and from what I hear a lot of those people are lovely people. And some of them not so lovely. Oh my goodness, that's like, how the rest of the world works!!! Fancy that!

You know what? I actually regret posting that ... But I know people already are reading it and will refer to it anyways so too late to delete it I guess.

I apologize for my awful generalization based simply on someone who ranted at me after a bad day, you live and learn right? I take responsibility for being a douchebag in this topic. I'm not lying about my friend being a photographer so I know people in the industry too, but I admit that does not give me a realistic opinion on them.

Zeckt:
You know what? I actually regret posting that ... But I know people already are reading it and will refer to it anyways so too late to delete it I guess.

I apologize for my awful generalization based simply on someone who ranted at me after a bad day, you live and learn right? I take responsibility for being a douchebag in this topic.

Well that was the most unexpected response ever. I accept your apology :) I respect the fact that you took responsibility! And I'm sorry for being sassy with obnoxious sarcasm :3

I think we live in a society where a divide between the sexes is encouraged. Even talking about models in this way is a kind of "us vs them" attitude amongst women. We're trained not to be able to associate with them, and we're trained to hate them through popular culture and media. This gives them (celebrities, public figures, models etc.,) status and power over us, and our means of retaliation is "well, you're just a big fugly slut".

People need to remember that everyone shits, everyone farts, everyone dies. For the brief moment you meet someone you think is "above" you in that arrogant, dickish way, remember how insignificant it all is. It's the use of this status that keeps us all in line and causes objectification and disgusting attitudes towards our fellow humans.

Once people move on from the influences of advertising and marketing, they usually realise how fucking stupid it all is and gain a little respect.

Watch The Century Of Self - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhxfArTAcfM
Understand WHY you're being made to think this way.
Improve humanity.

The Thinker:

museofdoom:

"all bodies are good bodies" basically translates to "everyone is beautiful."

I assume this is "internal beauty". Because not everyone is externally beautiful, but a lot of people have redeeming qualities.

haha that reminds me of this

image

[/quote]

museofdoom:

5)A thin woman isn't any less of a woman than a woman who has curves or is larger. All women are equal and all bodies are good bodies.

Depends from what view point you are talking.

Body shape/size from the "I find that attractive" side is subject to an individuals opinion.

Models are far too thin for my liking. As I said in that thread, twiglets with tits. Some of us just prefer a few more curves and, to put it a bit differently, something to "grab hold of" if you will.

I won't condemn models though it's not as if there is some supreme mould of the perfect body that everyone should conform to like I say, it's just personal taste.

museofdoom:

Also, while we are on the topic of women, I would like to say that people need to stop slut shaming. Like, it's a problem. People seem to think that how much skin a woman chooses to show is directly proportional to how much self respect they have. People also like to shame women who enjoy having sex. STOP IT. Girls can enjoy having sex, casual sex, kinky sex, and if they want to show boobs on the internet that's fine too. Not everyone has to uphold the same morals.

This I agree with completely however.

I like sex. I admit to being a bit of a man whore in my time. Sex is good.

I have no issues at all with anyone who likes sex. I have no issues with anyone who wants to flaunt that they like sex. As I said above, I love sex.

If a woman wants to flaunt what she has then I have no problem with that either.

Anyone can enjoy sex, it's hardly a "taboo" subject anymore.

Liquidacid23:

The Thinker:

museofdoom:

"all bodies are good bodies" basically translates to "everyone is beautiful."

I assume this is "internal beauty". Because not everyone is externally beautiful, but a lot of people have redeeming qualities.

haha that reminds me of this

image

That's just not a very nice comic. Fat is not synonymous with ugly.

Rawne1980:

Depends from what view point you are talking.

Body shape/size from the "I find that attractive" side is subject to an individuals opinion.

Models are far too thin for my liking. As I said in that thread, twiglets with tits. Some of us just prefer a few more curves and, to put it a bit differently, something to "grab hold of" if you will.

I won't condemn models though it's not as if there is some supreme mould of the perfect body that everyone should conform to like I say, it's just personal taste.

Well of course everyone has their own personal taste, and some people don't like skinny women.

It's just annoying when people condemn skinny women for being skinny. Like someone in the model thread said "I want real women with curves" or whatever. Like apparently being thin takes away your womanhood.

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