"Virgin shaming": I know we have a lot of "but what about men's problems?" people out there. Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 NEXT | |
People still bring up Freudian psychology in 2012? Look, guys, I don't mind bringing psychology up in an argument, but could you at least use a source that isn't 80+ years old? Freud's psychological theories are largely anachronistic today, especially when it comes to sex. All psychology isn't Freudian. | |
I completely agree, I hate society's attitude to the amounts of sex had by males/females. For one thing, I would much, MUCH prefer to date a male virgin than to date a male slut, although as a woman I have no desire to reverse the stereotype and become a slut myself. (I'll be using 'slut' as a gender nuetral term here) Recently, I accused one of my male friends of being a slut (well, he was being one...) and he completely blew up at me rather than laughing it off or admitting that that's the case, saying that I was the slut for 'leading him on' (which I would like to point out now, I did not). So in other words, this man and likely many others think they only indulge in slut-like activity because women, the 'true-sluts' allow them and encourage them to. God I hate society. | |
*Inquisitor Kevlar shoots Loop Stricken in the head* IK: We need not more heretics. Oh, and easiest heretical kill ever. *topic* Apparently, everyone here forgot that women also chime in on virgin (male) shaming just as often as men but in a far more vicious and condescending manner. I've once heard a woman say to her boy friend (don't forget the space between 'boy' and 'friend') "why not tattoo lips to your hand, since it's the only pussy you'll ever get". And another, but aimed at me in high school, by a girl: "The only way you'll be getting any action is if you strapped meat to your legs so that dogs would have a reason to hump you, or if you were thrown in prison". And everyone that heard that shit laugh. Gods, that flashback made me remember how much I hate women. | |
I hate Virgin Shaming. To be honest I hate how Everyone always makes a big deal out of it, and tries to make out wanting to wait to find someone you really care about to share the experience with is a weird thing. The whole virgin shaming thing is a retarded juvenile thing. But I have to ask the question: Why do you immediately assume ALL men are like that? It isn't fair to those of us who aren't. I won't tell you no-one is, thats idiotic. Maybe I have a Weird viewpoint (Bi man) but I get what you mean and largely agree with you, I just don't think Its fair you judge us all like that. | |
See, I'd say that this is slut shaming. You're assuming that a girl who has lots of sex with many different men lacks self-control and self-respect. Couldn't it be that she is in control but chooses to have lots of sex? And not because she has any self-respect5 issues, but simply because she likes it? | |
Probably with some people. Which does creep me out. It comes off as a second cousin to pedophilia (e.g. craving that innocent aspect) but with some people, it's more down to the "sex is sacred" thing. Which I think is silly, as I think you'll do better if you have some experience under your belt (no pun intended) as to pleasing a partner, and you need to know if you're sexually compatible. Kind of difficult if you choose to only have sex with the person you have your heart set on spending your life with. But, each to their own... | |
Exactly! This is a point I've always made. "Slut" isn't EVER defined by an arbitrary amount of sex someone has. It's only defined by the reasons as to why they have sex. | |
Yeah cause we're a hive mind. EDIT: Ok, this bugs me. For all the times I've been accused of hating men (I don't), I've never once said `I hate men` (because I don't), but apparently hating all women because some women were mean to you is perfectly acceptable? | |
You haven't gone skydiving? What a loser! *cough* OT: who cares? No, really-who cares if someone has slept with a lot of people or no one? Man, seriously, if someone cares that much and feels the need to point it out, if anything, THEY have the problem--the problem being nothing better to do in their lives than care about what others are doing in theirs. Easy way to shut down a douche and move on: "Hur hur, you're a virgin." "Good call, Einstein. Take you long to figure it out? Oh wait, don't answer-I don't care." - "Hur hur, you're a slut." "And apparently you're jealous enough to be thinking about my sex life. Sucks for you, bro." That is all. I will leave now. Carry on! | |
*Looks into thread, sees angry flame war about feminism and misogyny, backs away very slowly.* | |
It's a plot by the Illuminati. Pressure the girls into keeping their legs closed for fear of social repercussions, but inspire boys to fuck as much as humanly possible. So if the boys can't have sex with the girls, what happens? They start fucking each other. That's right, the Illuminati is trying to turn our whole society gay. | |
that is not a great argument that. yeah there has been other work on that could be just as relevant but saying we should ignore Freud's theories because they old is like saying "gravity pffff what tripe, Issac newton theory is over 200 years old!" as for the virgin shaming thing the only people who really do that can charitably called juvenile. i don't take people who do this very seriously as human beings same can be said for those who calls a woman a sluts for having lots of sex. just to be clear i'm not trying to encourage women to be more promiscuous what i'm saying is if you want to, you should be allowed to without being judged | |
No, he's right. Scientifically speaking, Freud's theories are more like spontaneous generation than Isaac Newton's theories. After Freud's time it didn't take even psychoanalysts long to distance themselves from him. In modern psychology, Freud is regarded as the person that first popularized psychology, for both good and so much ill. Beyond that...eh. And I don't think he meant old as in "Those theories were created so long ago". I think he means it in the sense of "Those theories were discarded so long ago." | |
Took a gut wrenching crush before I learned to love my tooth brush a few years back. Now the thought of being attractive to women is the main factor in making me go to the gym. | |
I agree, refusing to sleep with anyone who is not a virgin is a ridiculous standard, but everyone has the right to their standard. Thats all I was saying.
Oh look, its Lilith complaining about women doing things consensually in a thread she made bitching about how women cant do things consensually. What a surprise! If the market for porn specifically for females was big enough, you bet more of it would be out there. Do you think theres some sort of conspiracy to NOT make porn women enjoy, no matter what profits it could bring?
Well, it all comes down to personal taste anyway. If you dont mind dating an extremely promiscuous girl, thats up to you. Im not going to judge you for it, on the contrary, I admire your ability to trust people regardless of their history.
Yeah, I kinda fucked up the phrasing there. Sorry. You are absolutely right. | |
22 years old, had once been in a two year relationship. Still haven't done the deed. Sometimes shit is more complicated and regardless of one's wishes for gratification you put it aside. Doesn't matter either way to me tbh. The whole virgin requirement is a sign of male insecurity at not wanting to be compared to anyone before hand, yet many guys would go with a porn star XD. Waaaay too much emphasis all over someone getting their jollies. | |
Have you personally been on the receiving end of virgin shaming? Stuff like this tends to warp peoples' minds into something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. And yes, I did use an error of words, but that does't mean you can call me stupid, but like I said, it was based on my personal experience. I meant to say I hate everyone, not just women (just forgot to word it correctly). And to really clarify, most people suck. | |
I think that "virgin" can be used in 2 different ways in society. I don't think many people judge you based merely on the fact that you haven't had sex, say, for religious reasons or any time when its merely been a concious choice. I don't think that any of these people were shamed for their virginity, they just had different goals in life. However, a lot of the time when people use virgin as an insult, they don't mean merely "person that hasn't had sex", they mean the virgin stereotype, the socially incompetent loser, the mom-basement-dweller. While I think open mockery is bad in any context, I think its reasonable that the unhealthy lifestyle of the virgin stereotype does carry some social stigma. Virginity can be the result of some things that are undeniably negative personality traits such as bitterness towards women, poor personal hygene or manners, being boring, creepy or excessively shy etc. If they desperately long to have sex but aren't for whatever reason, then they need to sort out some area of their life. I think that there is a good analogy with someone's career. There's a certain stigma attached to working crap job. It may not be a bad thing in itself, perhaps you are doing it to fund your college degree or get your first foot on the career ladder. However, if you are in a crap job because you simply can't get another one, maybe that's a sign that you should evolve as a person, get a qualification or apply to more places. So, yea, don't shame a perfectly decent human who is saving themselves for marriage or is too devoted to their career to get into the dating scene, but maybe the guy who just spent £1,000 on a real doll so that he can further distance himself from the real world. Basically, it's unfair to shame someone for virginity when it is a mere lifestyle choice, however, virginity can be a reflection of real problems in someone's life. Like all insults, if its untrue then you have no reason to be insulted by them, but if they are true, maybe you are the problem and should work on yourself. | |
Yep, and slut shaming. And when I broke up with my ex boyfriend, he decided the best way to handle it was tell everyone I was a cheating whore and ring me up at 2am every night -drunk- just to confirm this. (Also, my mother who is bipolar was going through a low phase and really didn't help but I wont hold that aginst her). It would indeed be stupid to declare you hate women because you had bad experiences with some, but since its you've said it was an error, fair enough. Not stupid then. | |
We should, however, ignore Freud's hypotheses because they are ridiculous and have been COMPLETELY rejected by any psychologist ever with more than two brain cells. Seriously there's like no evidence on the ground for Freud or dream analysis or any of that rubbish. Even at the time he was pretty well ridiculed all round. His ideas were interesting and progressive but completely, utterly and horribly wrong. Virgin shaming is quite...odd, as is slut shaming. I don't get why people care so much about others' sex lives, why does it matter to them? If you want to fuck, fuck. If you don't, then don't. Captcha: finger lickin good. Nice captcha, keeping it classy. | |
Regarding your comments linking "love" and "sex," I think you're mistaken. In my experience, and having discussed it many times with my wife, women are far more likely to connect sex to love than men. Most of the criticism men face about how they (generally speaking) view sex is a direct result of the more general feminine view being pushed in media that targets women. Men are more likely to compartmentalize the two. Sex is about sex, and love is about love. And when a man behaves in this way, someone who is unable to compartmentalize them assumes the man is incapable of love if he can have sex "without it." An obvious exception to this would be young, inexperienced men (both romantically and sexually). This is because they're still working with a notion of romance and sex that is gained from, by and large, media aimed at the more general feminine view. This is not a value judgment or a right/wrong statement. This is simply an explanation over why there is so much conflict between men and women regarding sex and love. Neither is speaking or understanding the other's "native language," and miscommunication is a given. How this relates to the rest of your original topic: 1. Slut shaming - The majority of this is perpetrated by women, against those women who (as with many men) compartmentalize love and sex. They enjoy sex and want to have it, and they don't feel that love is a requirement. Women who hold the more "classic" view then shame her, in defense of their own sensibilities. Sex and love are intertwined, so sex without love is a social abomination, because it flies in the face of a tightly-held value system. 2. Virgin shaming - This has nothing to do with sex at all. This has to do with males wanting to establish dominance over other males. So, you pick something you're good at, or something you've done, and you make that a requirement to be a "real man." If you're good at football, that's what "real men do," and screw those basketball dorks... and if you're into basketball, well, same thing to the football morons. If you've had sex or done drugs or been in fights, ta-da -- you've got an ace-in-the-hole when it comes to that game. And it has nothing to do with sex itself. | |
It's not about personal preferences though. It's about mocking or belittling others for THEIR personal preferences. If you don't want to have sex with a promiscuous woman, hey, that's totally your choice. But it is HER choice to be promiscuous, and enjoy herself, her body, and her sex in that way. She will have to face the consequences of that choice (i.e being a turn off to some men who might have made a good relationship/greater risk of disease and/or pregnancy) but then you have to face the consequences of your choice (perhaps glossing over a woman due to her sexual habits when she might have made an awesome partner with you). That isn't the issue. The issue is when people attack virgins for being virgins, or sex loving people for being sex loving people. If you aren't actively hurting someone else, there is nothing wrong with what you are doing. EDIT: In response to your later comment about how Lilith is attacking porn/being a hypocrite, whatever. Porn, and sex work in general, is frequently filled with women who were sexually abused early in their life, and have huge psychological issues. While one should respect their choice to go into whatever profession they choose, generally a number of women choose to go into this profession because they are wounded. Not ALL women, but a lot of them yes. So... It makes for a really complicated issue. Because in general the porno and sex work industries do nothing to help the women recover, and in general only make their conditions worse. So yea, I can understand saying "Sex is good but sex work is bad" and not being a hypocrite about it.
So... I'm starting to think you are awesome. Just throwing that out there. | |
i'm still not convinced by this they are still teaching Freudian theory at degree level and has significantly influenced a lot of modern research and philosophy so i would hardly call his theory disregarded. and as far as psychology is concerned Freud writes nothing on the topic. Freud created psychoanalysis a different theory, it could be argued the modern psychology came from Freudian psychoanalysis. the split between the two theories happen at around 1907 when Carl Jung considered one of the founders of modern psychology, split off from Freud's group to make his own theory. i think there are few other founders of modern psychology that came from Freud's crew to make their own theories. Why so many split of from Freud's collective? anyway this is way off topic. on topic ummm... on topic errr... oh i got it! what would Freud say on this matter would probably be on as i said he was a colossal jerk and that was kinda a parody of him. but the point he was trying to get across in his theory in basic terms is that in society you need balance your animal needs with societal values. both telling women to refrain from having sex and encouraging men to have as much as possible damages both men and women mentally. ignore natural needs to much and you go crazy. i.e neurotic | |
Virgin shaming doesn't really happen when you are older. It turns into baggage later on in life. A man/woman's lack of sexual experience and development is actually a negative thing the older they get. I for one wouldn't be with a woman who was a virgin simply because as a 30 year old man, I expect a woman of around the same age to have experienced sexuality and grown in that aspect. I'm not saying she's gotta have a bunch of dudes under he belt, I just expect her to have some sort of healthy view on sex and have had a sexual relationship at one time in her life. | |
The question was directed at Lilith more than anyone else. I was curious as to how irrational she could be. I didnt get an answer directly but her other posts in this thread gave me a hint. | |
ARE we more sexually driven biologically? Or are we socially programmed to be? It's like the notion that women are far more emotional than men, when really it's men who're socially programmed to hide their emotions. It only looks like women are more emotional since they don't keep their feelings hidden as much as us. | |
Being a virgin at 18 I understand the problem and have experienced it to some degree. However like most things I get over it and I ignore entirely all but the most polite comments on the issue. To suggest humans suck at sexuality would be be a monumental understatement. We have well over 2000-3000 years worth of derp on the subject. The only reason it's so prominent on the net is not because of the alpha male shit that spawns it most commonly in real life but because of the nerd stereotype that still clings to much of the internet. | |
I've decided that I honestly don't give a shit about virginity or sex because, frankly, it's something that doesn't matter that much anyway. I feel pity for those American Pie-type sad cases that get their knickers in their twist because they're eager to lose their virginity with some "hot chick" on prom night. Just stop obsessing over it or so much. It'll eventually happen, whether it's in your teenage years or your twenties, and you shouldn't just use some woman (unless she's fine with it) so you can brag to your friends about it the next day and secure your masculinity or whatever. I'm 16, and I know a bunch of people who've already had sex, but I know a bunch of people who haven't. But, from my observations, I've found that the best way to find a partner is to not look. Many just happen to make friends, get closer and start going out. And please, no "friend zone" or "men are just nice to girls to get in their pants" bullshit. I would want to know if my partner was a virgin before we have sex, just so we're on the same page. I wouldn't want to accidentally hurt her or anything if she wasn't ready, and I wouldn't want to raise her expectations if she thinks I'm not a virgin. That seems to be a pretty basic thing to ask a partner. And seriously (at least in my experience), no-one believes that "men sleeps with loads of women = stud / women sleeps with loads of men = slut" thing anymore. It's the 21st century; as long as you're not friends with a bunch of chauvinist dudebros, the Barney Stinsons of the world are generally looked down upon by their peers. | |
...You've spoken to hundreds of men and women?... We all have. Every single one of us. And a lot of the women I've talked to are very open about sex. Any woman I've ever developed a good friendship with has revealed she's just as bad as any of my male friends. It's just discouraged for them to be as vocal about it because of the whole slut shaming thing. Ever seen what women are like when they go see male strippers? It's terrifying. Ever walk by a hen party? Terrifying. Women who are in a situation where they're allowed to be comfortable with their sexuality tend to show it more. | |
I think the ridicule of virgins or of "sluts" is dependent upon age as well as on sex. Any virgin of greater than, say, high school age is generally ridiculed regardless of sex. To be honest I think it has less to do with what a person has or hasn't done and more with the fact that people like to be mean. | |
I have a personal disgust towards virgin shaming/slut shaming, it reinforces the ideology of how men are to be the conquers of the women and the women are to be obedient and self preserving (this is coming from a male feminist btw). It goes hand in hand with our gendered linguistic system, how insults that people normally use target one aspect of men and one aspect of females. Men's pride and manhood are targeted by insults, being called "faggot," "gay" (making a connection between homosexuality and an undesirable male), "pussy," "bitch" (basically calling a man a women), and other such words, all of which targets one's manhood and willingness to be what society defines as being a "man." same thing with women, except when insulted it's their self preservation and sexuality that's targeted. Being called "whore," "bitch" (a female dog in heat), "slut," and the filthiest word, "cunt," which is basically all of those other words combined into one. And FYI, I'm a liberal feminist. I'm for the equal rights, equal treatment, and generally equal standards for both men and women. I recognize the kind of oppressiveness exhibited against women, but that has diminished vastly over the past couple of decades. I do not demonize men. | |
When the OP used terminology that simply puts blame on men then you are going to have a conflict. Not to say that those people who made such disrespectful replies are right, but I understand why they wanted to type such things. Heck, I also feel pretty insulted and honestly quite defensive by reading the OP's post. | |
Tried to read the OP with man-eyes, and I guess so? *Changed this from men to people, remembered it happens both ways, added the bit about slut shaming. | |
How many times do I have to say this about slut shaming. It is easy for any women to walk into a public location, individually tell every guy she wants to take them home and sleep with them and have an extremely high probability that at least one of the guys would accept. Guys can not. | |
| Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 NEXT | |
What I expected: Virgin and slut shaming is bad.
What I got: GENDER WAR. FUCK FEMINISTS/ANTIFEMINISTS.
Normally I would jump in, but I really don't want to. Congratulations escapists, you broke my spirit. I wonder if the gaming community will always have a problem with feminism, or if one day it might mature a little. I for one will not be holding my breath.
As for OT: Both are bad. It sucks men are pressured into losing virginity early and women are pressured to be a gatekeeper of sex forever having to say no. Trying to have an intelligent discussion about gender roles/societal pressures on here is like trying to do a rubix cube with your face.