Almost everywhere I hear mention of elves, it's in the negative sense. It feels like almost everyone hates elves in any setting, and I don't really get why. Is it because of how they are portrayed? I know I've seen more than my share of holier-than-thou High Elves and super-green Wood Elves, but I hate the archetype more than I do the species. Is it because they are so effeminate-looking? Really, I'm starting to feel like people are deliberately viewing them as effeminate just to mock them. Is it because of the "weak and frail" portrayals, meaning they are pitifully easy to squash? Who's to say you can't make a badass elf?

If you hate elves for some reason, please explain why. I sometimes feel like I'm the only person who likes to view them positively. Is it just that the anti-elf people are just a crapton more vocal about the matter?

I don't hate elves. I hate any "perfect race" as Elves are all to often portrayed to be. One of my favourite parts of the Dragon Age settings is that they are far from perfect in that world.

overpuce:

Though, IMHO, Orlando Bloom didn't do anything but hinder Human/Elf relations.

Yes, but the movies made up for that with Liv Tyler being Arwen... mmm.. Human/Elf relations >.>

WHAT?!?

Damn that Overpuce, always says what I was going to first. In my experience it is things like Orlando Bloom's Legolas that make people want to throw every Elf out of a space ship and never speak of them again. But in a lot of fantasy settings, elves work out just fine, and most people have no problem with them. It's like you sais,OP, the archetype that's the problem.

Why is there: a colon. I've never encountered elf hate, but it may be because they are the least compelling of all the fantasy races. They're almost always portrayed as a race of uptight pretty people, which is a pretty lame idea.

manic_depressive13:
Why is there: a colon.

Because I was considering a "Why So:" series of topics, but then couldn't think of any more. I just kept it for the illusion of such. :P

Bassik:
Have you ever played Warhammer or Warhammer 40.000? Elves and Eldar (Space elves) are the most annoying armies to face, with tons of special rules that make their models do things that your guys simply can not.
Fuck elves.

Ah... that explains a lot.

Indeed, part of what inspired this topic was a Blood Bowl LP and how much the player expressed his dislike for the elf teams (though since one of his teams was Dark Elf, I'm not sure if he hates that subspecies). I wasn't sure if he was expressing dislike of elves in general or just elves in the game, and given the seemingly prevalent anti-elf sentiment out there, I wanted to see what people thought.

My "main" warden in DA:O is Dalish.

I don't mind Elves, usually play Dwarves but Elves are okay.

Whose idea was it anyway to make elves so goshdarn effeminate? Female elves are pretty sweet and sleek (unless they're an Elder Scrolls elf with their eyes and bone structure), but male elves are made way too effeminate way too often.

Ever heard of an online game named TERA? Its portrayal of elves has got to be one of the most effeminate things I've ever set eyes on in a game. If you try to play a male high elf you're either going to be playing a girl, an uptight old prick or Gritty McGrimdark. Even DragonAge managed to pull off respectably masculine elves while still retaining their slender physique.

does it have something to do with the Justin beaber effect.
no wait hear me out!
you think of elves and you instantly thing lord of the rings (or at least LOTR style elves) and while thinking LOTR elves you think of legolas, and that leads you to think about orlando bloom the smug, annoying, handsome, successful, prick who all the girls fantasize about and being the jealous and horny person you are you try and convince everyone elves are bad to reduce the chances of orlando bloom sleeping with your girl-friend!

I don't see the problem about "effeminate" elves.

I hate rubbish Mary Sue elves that are perfect at everything. Especially the ones that live in perfect harmony with nature, have wonderful clean houses and metal, never get sick despite not having any mines or hospitals or cleaning products. Doesn't work.

Larry Correia did the best modern take on elves out there. Specifically, his elves are living in a trailer park named the Enchanted Forest in the middle of South Carolina.

My experiences in most games and books have led me to the conclusion that elves are dicks.

They always think they're better than every other race, trying to be the benevolent higher beings they think they are, and then they always do something so incredibly stupid that it rips a hole in the fabric of reality.

Ok maybe that was just the Eldar, but the first couple of points usually carry over.

It's because elves are lame. They're either OP ubermensches who have befalled some bullshit tradgedy and/or whiny, obama-loving, hippie, fucks.

They lack grit or flaw or any real dramatic promise.

Just as with vampires, it's simply a question of oversaturation.

But more than elves I hate the whole "they're victims of racism" spin that every fantasy game has now. It's like developers think that by adding racism it gives a fantasy realm more credibility.

Bassik:
Have you ever played Warhammer or Warhammer 40.000? Elves and Eldar (Space elves) are the most annoying armies to face, with tons of special rules that make their models do things that your guys simply can not.
Fuck elves.

Things have moved on since 3rd Ed, mate, they now suck major-league balls thanks to Mat Ward (I will insert appropriate 'nickname' upon request) and his idiocy.

They now have some of the easiest special rules, compared to Necrons, Grey Knights etc. etc. and more importantly, I still love 'em. Eldrad Ulthran will never die, thank you...

Bertylicious:
It's because elves are lame. They're either OP ubermensches who have befalled some bullshit tradgedy and/or whiny, obama-loving, hippie, fucks.

Really? They all seem fairly Republican to me... -_-

OT: Perhaps I betray my prejudices when I say that I actually like the archetype (though I may have warped it significantly somewhere along the line).

*leaves before shitstorm*

thaluikhain:
I don't see the problem about "effeminate" elves.

I hate rubbish Mary Sue elves that are perfect at everything. Especially the ones that live in perfect harmony with nature, have wonderful clean houses and metal, never get sick despite not having any mines or hospitals or cleaning products. Doesn't work.

Ah, ninja'd.

Yes, the usual portrayal of elves is a race Mary Sues. That's it. That's possibly the worst race you can have - take the most annoying character archetype and make them a race. However, was it only for that, there wouldn't have been as much hate. The problem is that elves also know they are Mary Sues and act high and mighty for it. And finally aside from the setting making them perfect, there are people who take it upon themselves to infuse even more Mary Suishness into the fucking race.

Example: I saw somebody who had plans for a D&D campaign. Basically the group would have to travel through the forest of elves or something and here's how it was planned. If any character stepped on a branch and snapped it, forest elves (higher levels than the group, of course) will hunt them down and break as many bones as branches were snapped. It was a Dex or Survival roll every X distance and on failure the character rolled a d6 to see ho many twigs they stepped on (something like that). Oh, and any elves in the group were immune to that, because they were elves, of course. Next, when the group reached the elf village, they would find that all female elves are hot babes wearing no tops and they would offer to sleep with any character with more than 14 Charisma (or so). The others had to make a Charisma roll to persuade them, I believe. Oh, not any elves in the group, of course, they got that for free. Also, the elf village was a minor deus ex machina because they elves were apparently part genies - they could do almost everything if persuaded - magic, warfare, healing that sort of thing.

Does this not scream "Help! A 12 year old is writing me! Pleas help me, oh god!". It does to me.

The elves are overexposed, overused, and tend to be portrayed as these near perfect beings that are so much incredibly better than everyone else...

I don't really have an inherent problem with them myself, but I would prefer to see the media back away from reusing the Tolkienish version of elves, perhaps to be replaced by a race closer to the original seelie and unseelie fae legends.

SckizoBoy:

Bassik:
Have you ever played Warhammer or Warhammer 40.000? Elves and Eldar (Space elves) are the most annoying armies to face, with tons of special rules that make their models do things that your guys simply can not.
Fuck elves.

Things have moved on since 3rd Ed, mate, they now suck major-league balls thanks to Mat Ward (I will insert appropriate 'nickname' upon request) and his idiocy.

They now have some of the easiest special rules, compared to Necrons, Grey Knights etc. etc. and more importantly, I still love 'em. Eldrad Ulthran will never die, thank you...

Bertylicious:
It's because elves are lame. They're either OP ubermensches who have befalled some bullshit tradgedy and/or whiny, obama-loving, hippie, fucks.

Really? They all seem fairly Republican to me... -_-

OT: Perhaps I betray my prejudices when I say that I actually like the archetype (though I may have warped it significantly somewhere along the line).

*leaves before shitstorm*

Firstly, Eldar in 3rd ed basically had a heavy bolter that killed terminators on 2s. That is insane and needed to be taken away. In 2nd ed they had Warp Spiders which meant you could kill an entire army in 2 turns (you're opponent had to be thick, but still). They need bringing to order.

Secondly, I am refering to wood elf types when I'm talking about hippy elves but I do appreciate what you mean as they are usually ultra conservative. I really just wanted to use the phrase "whiny, obama-loving, hippie, fuck".

I can't stand elves, they're all "look how perfect and immortal and good looking and one with nature we are. You humans wish we're half as awesome as we are." I love it when the pointy eared bastards get put in their place. I always liked dwarves better.

As always, there's a Trope for that

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScrewYouElves

Eh, I only have an issue with Elves when they're all smug and superior. And when they're overused.

Probably because in almost every mythos, elves are arrogant bastards that consider humans to be no different than trained chimps.
It doesn't help that they can live for millenia, so their views never, EVER change.

I just wish people would portray elves like they're supposed to be. Underhanded sneaky bastards who will steal your children. World of Darkness has had the best portrayal of them so far. This unknowable eliminate which makes them totally alien. They're too busy going 'fuck you guys' to give a shit about your pathetic little life.

People too often forget that elves are evil and it's a problem, because now everyone expects them to be totally cool and awesome and sexy and wonderful and magical and wise and ancient and all that shit. They completely miss the whole steal your kid away leave a changeling in it's place and rase your stolen baby as a slave to their whims.

In fact it isn't just elves, its all fay-kind. No one knows their fay-lore anymore because people expect them to all be 'good fairies' well guess what. Fairies were evil little shits as well.

Fuck all the fay, no one actually understands any of the supernatural lore and legends. Too much of this god damn twilight-misinterpretation bullshit. Christ Edward Cullen wasn't even a vampire. He's a god damn Sidhe or however it is you spell it.

People are dumb.

Yours.

Arashi of Ordo 3. [supernatural enthusiast]

I believe the reason why it's so common for games to feature elves that have been pushed back into the bottom of society, is a response to the era when elves were basically "tha shit". People must have grown tired of them.

All these elf cliches... you need a game that reinvents the elves to make them likeable. Ah the Witcher series... Nevermind they are terrorists in this one.

Heronblade:
The elves are overexposed, overused, and tend to be portrayed as these near perfect beings that are so much incredibly better than everyone else...

I don't really have an inherent problem with them myself, but I would prefer to see the media back away from reusing the Tolkienish version of elves, perhaps to be replaced by a race closer to the original seelie and unseelie fae legends.

KOA: Reckoning made me vomit with their portrayal of seelie and unseelie fae. No thanks! "Guardian of the Mabinogi" How can you guard folk stories? Pfft.

Elves are European, Fae are Irish, there's a difference.

They are overused. That's why people hate them.

I don't hate elves as such, but I'm bloody sick of seeing them in absolutely fucking everything when it comes to fantasy. No one ever even does anything really different with them (they say they do, but they're lying). Fantasy is supposed to be about making shit up. When I read a fantasy novel or play a fantasy game or watch a fantasy movie, I want to see crazy things that I wouldn't have thought of on my own, not something they just lifted whole-cloth out of someone else's head. Are writers and designers so creatively bankrupt that they don't have any crazy ideas of their own? If they are, why would I ever want to bother with their work, much less pay money for it?

Their smug sense of thinking they're better than us *insert non-elven race here.* Seriously, every non-hero elf is usually a xenophobic dick.

I don't mind Elves in fantasy. I really like the Elves portrayed in the Witcher universe - a kind of loosely organized guerilla freedom fighting army struggling on to survival with acts of desperation. However, the standard Lord of the Rings style Elf isn't particularly interesting for me beyond them living in dense forests with their personal homes in trees.