Why So: Anti-Elf?

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Well personally I feel that my fantasy setting need to be a certain way if I'm going to enjoy it. Elves are an important part of that, and I like their inclusion because they are often portrayed a bit exteme in their particular way of behaving. The High Elf are typically very full of themselves, claiming to be the perfect race and more often than not decendants of the gods themselves. The Dark Elf are the gloomy and darker version of the High Elf, though often not with the same tall view of themselves, and the Woodelf become that sort of treehugging naturalist with a somewhat agressive stance towards any sort of industrialization or large-scale organization.

In the same way I like my orcs in fantasy, and I like them portrayed as a demented version of the elf family.

I hate the tree hugging bow flingers. x: But thats just me.
I didnt mind the Dunmer in Morrowind, but lets be honest, they were all kind of a-holes, and it was their right, being their native home. And now i absolutely hate the way most elves look in Skyrim. Its not terrible, and you can still create good looking elves, but i just dont care for it as much as before.

I think it just tends to be more of what elves represent. "Best at magic", "in tune with nature", "Pure", "Fae". I dont care much for magic even though i love high fantasy settings. And something about the way elves act always gets me. Its..... stuck up. Most wont stand there and say "Im better then you" straight to your face, but a lot of them have that tone of voice, that way they carry themselves. Its snooty, and elvish.

I didnt mind the 40k style Elves, or the ones from The Witcher. But 40k doesnt count so much. Sure, they are still snooty and annoying, but they are also pretty grimdark.

It's said that you respect people for their strengths but love them for their flaws. Elves are generally portrayed as not having any flaws. They are beautiful, immortal, at peace with the world, magically unstoppable, able to see into the future and hundred other positive things. In the end, they usually come off as arrogant and pushy.

same problem i have with dwarves.(a part from dwarves just sucking)

a lack of creativity.

every 'fantasy' setting is so busy taking pages from LoTR that they don't bother coming up with any new races to make things interesting. yes coming up with a new race, and the lore for them is hard, but in the end it's far more worth while. i mean i have more respect for WoW in this regard then DA:O, cause at least WoW deviated and came up with or just used a few more races then the standard three

Why is there: a colon. I've never encountered elf hate, but it may be because they are the least compelling of all the fantasy races. They're almost always portrayed as a race of uptight pretty people, which is a pretty lame idea.

Whats wrong with reining down destruction and looking hot as you do it?

I dislike them for being the "superior than you"-race. I'm looking at you, Inheritance Cycle Elves. Eldest ruined elves forever for me.

I like the Dragon Age Elves but only when muted (don't like the accent) because they're generally down trodden and are societally lower than the humans (what can I say, I like my species)

Elves, dwarves......seriously cant someone create a fantasy with brand new races instead of reusing elves again. They are always the bloody same in every game to the point you can already guess what that character will be like based on that they are Elves. Same with Dwarves.

Liv Tyler ruined every scene she was in. Then they put her in scenes that made no sense at all so she could ruin those as well. (oh Frodo don't die... I know I just met you and have no connection to you at all but i'm going to drag down this entire scene with horrible over-acting so you'll forget that the river rising up was actually Elrond and Gandalf being awesome and grrrr)

Actually, it made perfect sense. See, the Nazgul weren't really dead, and they'd gotten themselves a target designator laser to call in a missile strike against Frodo, so Liv Tyler has to wrap her arms around him cause she's so blurry and soft focus that they don't get a good signal off her.


Oh, come on, it makes much more sense than a woman who is like 2,700 years old to fall in love with Aragorn, who is like 70. And you'll note that only elf women give up their immortality for human men, not the other way round, and they all have names about how pretty their hair is and stuff, not like the men who have manly man names about being warriors and stuff. Blech.

And all that complaining about how better it was in some mythical old time before all the other races (who, actually, work in mines and farms, as opposed to the elves who just sit around all day in their tree palaces) turned up and they had to share.

Elves would vote for far-right conservative parties. Yes they would.

There are several ways to think about this:

The fact that elves are not the strongest means they must rely upon intelligence, speed, and agility to get stuff done. But this can also mean that elves resort to sneaky tactics, which some people find unfair and annoying.

Another reason could be their look. Some people may not like the clean-shaven, skinny, and pointy-eared look because this doesn't scream "strength & power", which in a videogame, most people feel like experiencing.

But recently, I've found that hating elves comes directly from current games we have. In The Witcher 2, elves (and dwarves) are despised and treated as second-class citizens, because it's an interesting plot device which cleverly dodges/addresses racism. This happened in Dragon Age as well. I believe people are hating elves because our perspective of them is changing in the fantasy genre.

I just wish people would portray elves like they're supposed to be. Underhanded sneaky bastards who will steal your children. World of Darkness has had the best portrayal of them so far. This unknowable eliminate which makes them totally alien. They're too busy going 'fuck you guys' to give a shit about your pathetic little life.

People too often forget that elves are evil and it's a problem, because now everyone expects them to be totally cool and awesome and sexy and wonderful and magical and wise and ancient and all that shit. They completely miss the whole steal your kid away leave a changeling in it's place and rase your stolen baby as a slave to their whims.

In fact it isn't just elves, its all fay-kind. No one knows their fay-lore anymore because people expect them to all be 'good fairies' well guess what. Fairies were evil little shits as well.

Fuck all the fay, no one actually understands any of the supernatural lore and legends. Too much of this god damn twilight-misinterpretation bullshit. Christ Edward Cullen wasn't even a vampire. He's a god damn Sidhe or however it is you spell it.

People are dumb.


Arashi of Ordo 3. [supernatural enthusiast]

Someone has Played Changeling the lost. Fae are mercurial their emotions shift like the wind. One minute their happy loving, the next they are cruel unmerciful and vile. They are sexy, but only as a way to fool and control others. They can be as monstrous as demons or as good as angels. But make no mistake. They are not trustworthy. Their lives are measured in centuries while ours are in decades. They car nothing for us other then as entertainment or playthings. In short they are not worthy of praise.

That's not just from Changeling I know a lot of stories takes this bent. But it's getting rarer in rarer.

Elves, dwarves, and even orc types get little love from me because they've hardly changed since Tolkein hit it big.

Elves: Take your pick of the list below.

Much longer lived than other races by centuries or whenever an accident/fight kills them.
Use that time to master one thing after another until they get bored.
Their trash is usually said to be better than what other races can hope to make.
Have some mystical property that makes them resistant/immune to disease or magic.
Have a more innate understanding of magic, if magic exists in the setting.
May share a special bond with an aspect of the world that other races 'will never get'.
Often shown or described as being the most physically attractive of races.
They have found a way to wiggle into settings across time and space in some form or other.

In other words, they're not very good at hiding their Mary Sue levels and people get annoyed the more often the stereotype is used.

I'm actually a pretty big fan of Elves, I think people who play them often stick to close to stereotype in games like D&D.

In Skyrim my Wood Elf is a filthy, rugged, murdering alcoholic scumbag with only his loose sense of honor keeping him from driving his sword into the smug characters he despises so much.

It's just over-saturation. They're in every fantasy, put in the forefront even more than Dwarves (going all the way back to Tolkien), and people are just lashing out at them.

But recently, I've found that hating elves comes directly from current games we have. In The Witcher 2, elves (and dwarves) are despised and treated as second-class citizens, because it's an interesting plot device which cleverly dodges/addresses racism. This happened in Dragon Age as well. I believe people are hating elves because our perspective of them is changing in the fantasy genre.

...are you actually claiming that people don't like elves because of two games we've had so far? (or maybe several more) And that the dislike for elves is a totally recent thing? That is somehow tied to somebody just deciding to portray them negatively? Because I can assure you that the elves have been disliked for a long time with a reason and portraying them negatively is sometimes an expression of that dislike.

I like the God-Children of impossible beauty but, I don't care too much for the cookie-baking tree-dwellers. Ironic when you consider how much I love cookies. I've never had a real problem with either though to be honest. I don't understand why they can't be in other fantasy settings though like in a Sci-Fi fantasy (I suppose for that we have Ugnaughts) or, modern fantasy. That would be pretty bad ass; a modern Elf wearing the latest from (insert label here) shooting a Dragon from the Space Needle with a high velocity sniper-rifle sounds like something we should have seen by now.

Because they are so often depicted as being better than humans. It's almost impossible to love a group whose every act and line is a form criticism. Author often double-down on the offensiveness by also having the main villain be elf-related.

So what you end up with is a group that screwed up the world way back when, wants the (human) hero to fix it for them, can't bring themselves to admit wrongdoing while complaining about everything human-related, and yet we're expected to admire them. Naturally, you'd expect said hero to call them on this, but he almost never does so you don't get to purge the bitterness by seeing the haughty elves taken down a notch.

Once again, this is another one of those things that's lifted from Lord of the Rings but nearly almost fumbled. In Middle Earth, the Elves have a backstory of greed, rebellion, ambition, bloodlust and folly that makes human history look benign by comparison. The only reason the Elves are even in Middle Earth is because they are engaged in a long-standing uprising and rejection of their gods. They are fading away because they made magic rings that linked themselves to Sauron. They've slaughtered each other and the dwarves over shiny gems. So by the time Frodo & co. come by, they've learned to eat some humble pie.

Play Baldur's Gate 2. There's your reason.


Yes, but the movies made up for that with Liv Tyler being Arwen... mmm.. Human/Elf relations >.>


That wretched woman allowed arwen to become a major character. There is no defense for this

i think its just because elves are so overused

Eh, I have no problem with elves as a whole. But yes, I have hated certain individual elves.

But it does irk me how they're often portrayed with a holier than thou, and are better than everyone.

I love myself some elves, or at least the Dragon Age kind.
I think they do get stale however, much in the same way Dwarves do.
Elves are oppressed by humans one two, Dwarves are nearly extinct three four...

This might have already been said, but the big reason that Elves bug me so much in fantasy is because Lord of the Rings did them well enough, in my opinion, that almost every other portrayal of Elves pales in comparison. It's not that I can't handle stories with Elves, it's just that I strongly prefer it when the creators come up with actually original races.

To put it in perspective, what if a huge amount of science fictions had Klingons. Some had different interpretations of the Klingons, and they were often in different settings, but they were definitely Klingons, not just a generic warrior society. Personally, that'd feel a bit off to me.

Nuffink wrong wiv' elves, 'course, you could improve dem somewhat... make dem bit bigger an' 'arder... get rid of dat silly hair... and den make 'em green! Dat sounds proper good dat does...

I don't hate elves. I hate any "perfect race" as Elves are all to often portrayed to be. One of my favourite parts of the Dragon Age settings is that they are far from perfect in that world.

You can honestly blame Legolas for that. He's one of the most popular elves, and most tend to forget that he was pretty extraordinary in comparison to his race. They want to create something elf related, and use him as inspiration. Which is silly to be honest.

Elves aren't supposed to be perfect in any regard. :(

Edit: I love elves. I honestly believe a lot of the anti-elf mentality comes from some popular iconic figure stating that he/she is sick of them. I just can't remember who the heck that was... Crap, if I end up finding myself searching all over previously watched youtube videos for it, I'm gonna be annoyed. >:\

Elves are usually portrayed as pretty, perfect beings who use magic.

And they seem to be in just about anything they can be.

I'm just tired of seeing them.

The only import i WANT from the elves is giant snarling tamed animals, not pieces of fucking cloth.
My only export i give them is copious amounts of magma and swords through throats and faces.

If i keep them happy they bring in more cloth, if i keep them unhappy they send animals or, if I'm lucky,war. Yay military training!
Really, fuck elves. i want to chop as many wood as i want, you daft treehumpers!

Dwarf fortress is a wonderful game. So many ways to get creative with things.

I have a number of problems with elves.

They are perfectly attractive, perfectly behaved, masters of the woods and animals and magic, with lives that will outlive all others by centuries. Which means that either elves are better than all other races at any given task, or they were lazy for a century or two.

But my biggest problem with them? If its fantasy, it will have elves. They are freaking everywhere. It's like vampires. Overused. Honestly, it seems more likely to find an elf in a fantasy setting than it is to find a dragon, which is wrong to me.

I like elves. I really really like elves. I've just started reading LotR again and oh my god there are so many elves that were dropped from the movie I am drowning in them. It's wonderful.

But I hate that they've become staples of the fantasy genre. Why do all elves have to be beautiful, delicate, perfect people? Why do all dwarves have to be abrasive drunken Scotsmen?

I have a very thin tolerance for most of the standard fantasy tropes. Not just elves.

One of the things I've actually rather enjoyed about the Warcraft series is the fact that they killed of the High Elves (your standard Archery and Magic fantasy elves) and replaced them with the Night and Blood Elves. both of whom have a much more interesting background and culture to them than most fantasy games would give to an elf.

There was also a comic series that I used to read called "Elfquest" which took a much more tribal and savage approach to the elvish society and I remember quite enjoying that.

Beyond those few examples I just find that the standard fantasy elf archetype is just played out and boring and if you can't bring something to the table beyond the bog standard asexual pretty boys or cave dwelling "dark elves" then just don't bother.

Generally I get annoyed with all-pure attitude of high elves, but my favorite elves have to be the Dark Elves from Warhammer fantasy. I Loved reading Malekith and the chronicles of Malus Darkblade. The Dark elf society was very grim and I would hate to live there, but I like the blood-thirsty psychopaths with very interesting murder cults. I also loved the artwork of their troops usually the very gorgeous use of black, red, purple colors. I also played a Blackguard from Warhammer Online: the age of Reckoning, terrible game, but awesome class to play.

I did like the way they were in the Silmarillion. Not a dying race, characters with some real flaw, and they seem all the more human for it.

A Weakgeek:
All these elf cliches... you need a game that reinvents the elves to make them likeable. Ah the Witcher series... Nevermind they are terrorists in this one.

This. Elves just always fit into a single niche. In my current Pathfinder campaign, elves essentially fill the role of humans, except for the fact that they are more along the lines of the Fey Realm's humans, stuck on normal earth because of a rift in the realms.

In the TES 'verse, mer (elves) are basically humans with pointy ears, no better or worse than the human races. Also in TES orcs are elves. Go wrap your head around that one. High elves are humans with pointy ears and a healthy dose of arrogance.

In AD&D elves sacrificed a point of constitution for one of dexterity, definitely no Sues there. IIRC in 3E this was upped to two points each way, ouch.

In most other portrayals I think the supreme arrogance they often display disqualifies them from being Sues. Well, maybe they could be Jerk Sues. But as a race they usually have some flaw that prevents them from taking over. Individuals could be pretty Suetiful though.

Simply because there has been a bit too many recently. They have become bland and stale because nobody does anything new with them. Maybe tolkien-esque fantasies should start either making up their own or at the very least use some more obscure and out there races, like driders.

Almost everywhere I hear mention of elves, it's in the negative sense. It feels like almost everyone hates elves in any setting, and I don't really get why. Is it because of how they are portrayed? I know I've seen more than my share of holier-than-thou High Elves and super-green Wood Elves, but I hate the archetype more than I do the species. Is it because they are so effeminate-looking? Really, I'm starting to feel like people are deliberately viewing them as effeminate just to mock them. Is it because of the "weak and frail" portrayals, meaning they are pitifully easy to squash? Who's to say you can't make a badass elf?

If you hate elves for some reason, please explain why. I sometimes feel like I'm the only person who likes to view them positively. Is it just that the anti-elf people are just a crapton more vocal about the matter?

Really, it's the fact that there's no reason whatsoever for the appearance and archetype to always be entwined, except for Tolkein Worship.

It's no different than if every story had to feature a tough-as-nails ex-military leader with an eye patch and gravely voice and dark past. You're basically having to endure the exact same character (in purpose and appearance) in multiple stories, and for no good reason.

Is there a reason a fantasy game can't feature Elves that are more like the old Christmas elves? Or some reason that Gnomes can't be the archetypal "perfect" race? (I at least appreciate that Skyrim made elves uglier, because that's how they would actually look to us, as humans.)

It instantly shows you exactly what kind of story you're dealing with: same old, same old.

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