Junior Seau Shot Himself Today

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http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/junior-seau-dead-suicide-nfl-linebacker/story?id=16263047#.T6GV46trPpg

Damn. I actually live in Oceanside and used to go to the church his family goes to. All of my problems revolve around money, so it always blows my mind when someone who's rich and famous does something like this... Especially when they know how it will hurt their family. His mother is an avid church-goer who was at church when she heard the news. Being such a blatant suicide, he had to know his mother would think his soul was now enduring eternal torment for an unforgivable sin.

What drives people to this? I'll never understand.

If you do understand and you're still in that place, I advise you to read this:

http://www.cracked.com/article_15658_the-ten-minute-suicide-guide.html

Yeah, it's crazy. My friend Skyped me about it, and I was like, "WHAT?" Dude was a beast in San Diego.

R.I.P.

What kind of mother would think of her son as suffering in hell for eternity because he ended his own life? That's the most despicable outlook I've ever heard on someone who's decided they don't want to continue living. Sounds like you're projecting your own beliefs onto the mother's view of her son's death, and I don't believe he took his life just to spite his mom.

TheBobmus:
What kind of mother would think of her son as suffering in hell for eternity because he ended his own life? That's the most despicable outlook I've ever heard on someone who's decided they don't want to continue living. Sounds like you're projecting your own beliefs onto the mother's view of her son's death, and I don't believe he took his life just to spite his mom.

Well to be fair, if she is Catholic, the view of the Catholic church states that suicide and murder is the same thing, therefore you go to hell (which I assume is what the OT assumes). Now this is going to be terribly presumptuous of me but if she was in church on a weekday and a Christian, she likely was attending a Catholic mass.

OT: It sucks. I have never understood what drives a person to suicide and probably never will be able to understand it but I really wish suicidal people would REALLY think about it before they go through with it (ESPECIALLY people with kids like Seau).

tippy2k2:

TheBobmus:
What kind of mother would think of her son as suffering in hell for eternity because he ended his own life? That's the most despicable outlook I've ever heard on someone who's decided they don't want to continue living. Sounds like you're projecting your own beliefs onto the mother's view of her son's death, and I don't believe he took his life just to spite his mom.

Well to be fair, if she is Catholic, the view of the Catholic church states that suicide and murder is the same thing, therefore you go to hell. Now this is going to be terribly presumptuous of me but if she was in church on a weekday and a Christian, she likely was attending a Catholic mass.

Attending a Catholic church =/= following all Catholic doctrine to be fair
And a mother's outlook on the death of her son is far more likely to involve grief at his passing than conviction that he's going straight to hell, unless she was a die-hard believer
Just seemed like the OP was projecting his own ideas onto the mother to me.

tippy2k2:
Well to be fair, if she is Catholic, the view of the Catholic church states that suicide and murder is the same thing, therefore you go to hell (which I assume is what the OT assumes).

That isn't even close to what the Church says.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

And why is she likely Catholic? Most Christians in the U.S. are Protestant.

OT: It sucks. I have never understood what drives a person to suicide and probably never will be able to understand it but I really wish suicidal people would REALLY think about it before they go through with it (ESPECIALLY people with kids like Seau).

It's called "depression".

TheBobmus:

tippy2k2:

TheBobmus:
What kind of mother would think of her son as suffering in hell for eternity because he ended his own life? That's the most despicable outlook I've ever heard on someone who's decided they don't want to continue living. Sounds like you're projecting your own beliefs onto the mother's view of her son's death, and I don't believe he took his life just to spite his mom.

Well to be fair, if she is Catholic, the view of the Catholic church states that suicide and murder is the same thing, therefore you go to hell. Now this is going to be terribly presumptuous of me but if she was in church on a weekday and a Christian, she likely was attending a Catholic mass.

Attending a Catholic church =/= following all Catholic doctrine to be fair
And a mother's outlook on the death of her son is far more likely to involve grief at his passing than conviction that he's going straight to hell, unless she was a die-hard believer
Just seemed like the OP was projecting his own ideas onto the mother to me.

Actually I drew all the conclusions that tippy2k2 drew... I'm not religious, but I was raised in a Christian church. I went to New Venture, which is the church where Shawn Mitchell (the Chargers' team chaplain for years and years) preaches and where a lot of the Seaus go to worship.

One of the things I was brought up to believe was that if I killed myself, I'm going to hell, no exceptions. That's likely what Junior's mother believes. I would probably agree that she would change her outlook on suicide after this though.

Cakes:

That isn't even close to what the Church says.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

And why is she likely Catholic? Most Christians in the U.S. are Protestant.

Everything I've ever read on Catholic views on suicide call it a mortal sin. I'm not Catholic so that could be incorrect but I'm going off of what I've read. Although I am now on Wikedia and see where you got that quote so I'm alright with saying that I could very well be wrong on this topic.

Also, I stated that I'm assuming Catholic based on the fact that she was in church on a weekday. Again, that's my presumption since I've never seen other Christian denominations do it. Again, I could be wrong which I why I called it my presumption.

TheBobmus:
Attending a Catholic church =/= following all Catholic doctrine to be fair
And a mother's outlook on the death of her son is far more likely to involve grief at his passing than conviction that he's going straight to hell, unless she was a die-hard believer
Just seemed like the OP was projecting his own ideas onto the mother to me.

That is also fair. I was merely stating what I thought the OP was trying to say (EDIT: which the OP has now confirmed above after I posted this). I agree that it would be tough to see the mother think her son was in hell for what he did and I was going off of the (admittedly little) knowledge I had on the Catholic religion (which Cakes has pointed out my own incorrect assumptions).

ilovemyLunchbox:
Actually I drew all the conclusions that tippy2k2 drew... I'm not religious, but I was raised in a Christian church. I went to New Venture, which is the church where Shawn Mitchell (the Chargers' team chaplain for years and years) preaches and where a lot of the Seaus go to worship.

One of the things I was brought up to believe was that if I killed myself, I'm going to hell, no exceptions. That's likely what Junior's mother believes. I would probably agree that she would change her outlook on suicide after this though.

Ah hello OP.
I'd say it's incredibly unlikely that someone in that state would worry about their mother consigning them to hell, as you indicated in your OP, no matter their upbringing. Your post, to me, almost seemed to imply that he was being selfish in killing himself.
My belief is that, as much as it may affect other people, it is ultimately your own life, and you may choose what you do with it.
(All references to American sport are lost on me - British)

That's sad to hear. I was never into sports, but since my dad's a fan of the Chargers and I don't live far from San Diego I definitely heard the name growing up.

TheBobmus:

ilovemyLunchbox:
Actually I drew all the conclusions that tippy2k2 drew... I'm not religious, but I was raised in a Christian church. I went to New Venture, which is the church where Shawn Mitchell (the Chargers' team chaplain for years and years) preaches and where a lot of the Seaus go to worship.

One of the things I was brought up to believe was that if I killed myself, I'm going to hell, no exceptions. That's likely what Junior's mother believes. I would probably agree that she would change her outlook on suicide after this though.

Ah hello OP.
I'd say it's incredibly unlikely that someone in that state would worry about their mother consigning them to hell, as you indicated in your OP, no matter their upbringing. Your post, to me, almost seemed to imply that he was being selfish in killing himself.
My belief is that, as much as it may affect other people, it is ultimately your own life, and you may choose what you do with it.
(All references to American sport are lost on me - British)

I actually have always believed suicide is selfish. No matter what problem you have, it isn't going to be defeated by killing yourself. It only hurts the ones who love and care about you. The only person who really benefits is you because you aren't around to deal with it. It's a terrible loss for his family and it shouldn't have happened, but if he chose to kill himself, it is extremely selfish.

ilovemyLunchbox:
I actually have always believed suicide is selfish. No matter what problem you have, it isn't going to be defeated by killing yourself. It only hurts the ones who love and care about you. The only person who really benefits is you because you aren't around to deal with it. It's a terrible loss for his family and it shouldn't have happened, but if he chose to kill himself, it is extremely selfish.

To me it's selfish in the same way that choosing to move away from your family is selfish. Yes, they might be sad not to see you around, but it's ultimately your life, and no-one elses.
This was best summed up by Schopenhauer:

"They tell us that suicide is the greatest act of cowardice... that suicide is wrong; when it is quite obvious that there is nothing in the world to which every man has a more unassailable title than to his own life and person."

Basically he's saying that it's the last thing you can truly claim to have the right to do with as you like. To deny yourself that right would be to say that there is nothing on earth that you have full rights to do with as you like.

You can factor in the damage it might do to other people, but in the end to criticise someone for choosing to do so is, in my view, both disrespectful and cruel. When it gets to the point where someone is determined enough to commit such an act, who are we to judge them for it?

Damn, he shot himself in the chest. I know there's no sure-fire way to punch your own ticket, except maybe blowing yourself up or jumping off a building head first, but you'd think if it was a suicide, he'd, you know, shoot himself in the head. Sad to see someone give up on life, though.

I have no idea who this person is but, from reading the thread, I can assume that this is a person who had risen to fame and fortune?

If so, then I see no reason why he would not kill himself.

Maybe that was bit blunt, but hey, I'm like that. Look at it like this. Old men who die with regrets never achieved their dreams while they were young. Young men who achieve their dreams while they are still young inevitably kill themselves in one form or another (alcoholism comes to mind).

Think about it: When you had achieved greatness, achieved prominence, what else is there? When you have made your dreams a reality, what point is there in sleeping? That's where the downward spiral begins.

BrionJames:
Damn, he shot himself in the chest. I know there's no sure-fire way to punch your own ticket, except maybe blowing yourself up or jumping off a building head first, but you'd think if it was a suicide, he'd, you know, shoot himself in the head. Sad to see someone give up on life, though.

Supposedly he's doing what Dave Duerson (former Safety for Chicago Bears) did, though that is just rumor.

Dave Duerson's death with the important bit bolded (from Wikipedia):

Duerson was found dead at his Sunny Isles Beach, Florida[1] home on February 17, 2011. The Miami-Dade County medical examiner reported that Duerson died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the chest.[6] He sent a text message to his family saying he wanted his brain to be used for research at the Boston University School of Medicine, which is conducting research into chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) caused by playing pro football.[7] He left behind three sons and a daughter from his marriage to ex-wife Alicia Duerson.[6] On May 2, 2011 researcher neurologists at Boston University confirmed that he suffered from a neurodegenerative disease linked to concussions.[8]

In short: For science to test his brain for football-related injuries.

TheBobmus:

ilovemyLunchbox:
I actually have always believed suicide is selfish. No matter what problem you have, it isn't going to be defeated by killing yourself. It only hurts the ones who love and care about you. The only person who really benefits is you because you aren't around to deal with it. It's a terrible loss for his family and it shouldn't have happened, but if he chose to kill himself, it is extremely selfish.

To me it's selfish in the same way that choosing to move away from your family is selfish. Yes, they might be sad not to see you around, but it's ultimately your life, and no-one elses.
This was best summed up by Schopenhauer:

"They tell us that suicide is the greatest act of cowardice... that suicide is wrong; when it is quite obvious that there is nothing in the world to which every man has a more unassailable title than to his own life and person."

Basically he's saying that it's the last thing you can truly claim to have the right to do with as you like. To deny yourself that right would be to say that there is nothing on earth that you have full rights to do with as you like.

You can factor in the damage it might do to other people, but in the end to criticise someone for choosing to do so is, in my view, both disrespectful and cruel. When it gets to the point where someone is determined enough to commit such an act, who are we to judge them for it?

The rights of each and every individual should never be the end all of morality. His death unquestionably affected everyone he ever knew and who had ever held him dear. Suicide is among the most selfish things that a person could ever do, it is far worse than moving away from your family, it is abandoning them forever, along with every other responsibility you have ever had. It is certainly cowardly, as it always is when someone chooses to avoid a problem rather than confront it. Just because nobody has the right to keep you from killing yourself doesn't mean you ever should. There are a thousand things that people can and should have the right to do that are anything but right. Hating, lying, betraying, cheating, these are all things that should remain within each person's rights despite how wrong they are. Suicide should be considered in the same way, if not even to a greater degree.

TheBobmus:
What kind of mother would think of her son as suffering in hell for eternity because he ended his own life? That's the most despicable outlook I've ever heard on someone who's decided they don't want to continue living. Sounds like you're projecting your own beliefs onto the mother's view of her son's death, and I don't believe he took his life just to spite his mom.

it's a christian and catholic belief that if someone takes their life they will spend eternity in hell as a punishment. It's not DESPICABLE it's the mother's religion.

What some people don't know about is the extreme issues that many professional football players have after their playing career. All the collisions that they have cause brain damage, sure the helmets help, but there is only so much the padding can do. What happens is the brain damage takes the form of dead spots in the brain, as well as whats called Chronic traumatic encephalopathy which causes memory loss, aggression, confusion and depression. I bet that when they open up his head and examine his brain (because CTE can only be diagnosed postmortem), they will find this to be the case.

Its a shame that he died, its sad to hear about anything like this.

That's pretty brutal. RIP

>Someone commits suicide
>Escapist turns it into a religion debate

This place blows sometimes.

Revnak:
The rights of each and every individual should never be the end all of morality. His death unquestionably affected everyone he ever knew and who had ever held him dear. Suicide is among the most selfish things that a person could ever do, it is far worse than moving away from your family, it is abandoning them forever, along with every other responsibility you have ever had. It is certainly cowardly, as it always is when someone chooses to avoid a problem rather than confront it. Just because nobody has the right to keep you from killing yourself doesn't mean you ever should. There are a thousand things that people can and should have the right to do that are anything but right. Hating, lying, betraying, cheating, these are all things that should remain within each person's rights despite how wrong they are. Suicide should be considered in the same way, if not even to a greater degree.

Hey there Revnak, glad someone responded to that comment, it's always interesting to discuss.
It may affect everyone you know, but it doesn't make it a selfish act. It's one that affects you far more substantially than it affects anyone else, so I personally think that inherently makes it an act that is neither unselfish or selfish.
I wouldn't call it an act of cowardice either. There are times when taking your own life can seem like the only solution to your problems, with no other way of tackling them, so you would be taking on your problems head-on in that sense. Also if you're saying sticking a gun to your head doesn't take courage, I disagree massively.

LT Cannibal 68:

TheBobmus:
What kind of mother would think of her son as suffering in hell for eternity because he ended his own life? That's the most despicable outlook I've ever heard on someone who's decided they don't want to continue living. Sounds like you're projecting your own beliefs onto the mother's view of her son's death, and I don't believe he took his life just to spite his mom.

it's a christian and catholic belief that if someone takes their life they will spend eternity in hell as a punishment. It's not DESPICABLE it's the mother's religion.

It's a rare belief, not taught by any major denominations, and in my view is a vile way to look upon anyone's death, especially that of your own son.
It being part of religion would not make me consider it any less despicable either - Islam carries laws that say adulterous women should be stoned, and I find that despicable.
Anyway, let's not have a religious debate, and please read the rest of the conversation surrounding my post before you jump right in.

She will be glad when she finds out she has lived in a lie her whole life.... um, yeah, too late then.

Hey, I have brain torauma too :D
It does mess with you.

dyre:
That's pretty brutal. RIP

>Someone commits suicide
>Escapist turns it into a religion debate

This place blows sometimes.

The OP simply posted in a way that assumed the mother would be against suicide due to her religion, so this is why. Don't hate the game, hate the players!
Wait, but I'm playing... Don't hate me!

People die every minute, that was his choice and he got what he wanted so I can't even feel sorry for him. I never knew him so I won't miss him either.

I actually have always believed suicide is selfish.

Whenever I read stuff like that I automatically enter full on rage-mode.

The stuff about "choosing what you with your life because it is YOUR life etc." at least invokes semi-rage-mode.

Nobody just offs himself because he can. Suicide is the result of suicidal thoughts which are a symptom of a clinical depression. Just as death by lung failure is the result of a diseased lung which is a symptom of lung cancer.

Calling someone selfish because he died of the disease depression is like calling someone lazy because he is paralyzed and just sits on his ass in his weelchair all day.

For f**ks sake, know what you're talking about before you open your mouths.

From what I understand, he was a pretty charitable guy that used his fame and fortune to improve the lives of those around him. He gave a friend of mine tickets to a Raiders/Chargers game just because my friend was a Raiders fan and hadnt been to a game.

TheBobmus:

Revnak:
The rights of each and every individual should never be the end all of morality. His death unquestionably affected everyone he ever knew and who had ever held him dear. Suicide is among the most selfish things that a person could ever do, it is far worse than moving away from your family, it is abandoning them forever, along with every other responsibility you have ever had. It is certainly cowardly, as it always is when someone chooses to avoid a problem rather than confront it. Just because nobody has the right to keep you from killing yourself doesn't mean you ever should. There are a thousand things that people can and should have the right to do that are anything but right. Hating, lying, betraying, cheating, these are all things that should remain within each person's rights despite how wrong they are. Suicide should be considered in the same way, if not even to a greater degree.

Hey there Revnak, glad someone responded to that comment, it's always interesting to discuss.
It may affect everyone you know, but it doesn't make it a selfish act. It's one that affects you far more substantially than it affects anyone else, so I personally think that inherently makes it an act that is neither unselfish or selfish.
I wouldn't call it an act of cowardice either. There are times when taking your own life can seem like the only solution to your problems, with no other way of tackling them, so you would be taking on your problems head-on in that sense. Also if you're saying sticking a gun to your head doesn't take courage, I disagree massively.

The selfish individual being affected the most by an act does not stop the act from being selfish. An identity thief can take ten dollars from ten thousand bank accounts and would still be considered selfish. If he were then to burn all the money he would remain selfish. What determines whether or not an act is selfish is whether or not it is carried out with reasonable regard to all people who are affected, rather than disproportionately focusing on the self. Suicide is carried out with disproportionate focus upon the self. You die, they live on without you, questioning just what it is they could have done to keep you, to save you, what they did to kill you. You're simply gone.
I'm going to throw out that tired old fact about how the majority of suicide attempt survivors are glad they messed it up. Just because it seems like there is no other way doesn't mean there is no other way, in fact it almost never does. There is always another choice to be made, always something to live or die for, rather than something to die in avoidance of. Doing something in spite of fears is not true courage. True courage is doing something right despite fears. A man that kills his wife despite fearing the consequences is not courageous. Courage cannot, or at least should not be something selfish, rather it should be something selfless.

ilovemyLunchbox:
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/junior-seau-dead-suicide-nfl-linebacker/story?id=16263047#.T6GV46trPpg

Damn. I actually live in Oceanside and used to go to the church his family goes to. All of my problems revolve around money, so it always blows my mind when someone who's rich and famous does something like this... Especially when they know how it will hurt their family. His mother is an avid church-goer who was at church when she heard the news. Being such a blatant suicide, he had to know his mother would think his soul was now enduring eternal torment for an unforgivable sin.

What drives people to this? I'll never understand.

If you do understand and you're still in that place, I advise you to read this:

http://www.cracked.com/article_15658_the-ten-minute-suicide-guide.html

As a giant NFL fan, let me say the same thing I said on the ESPN forums.

Screw him. Seriously.

He abandoned his family. He took the cowardly way out, and left his children without a father. There are VERY few times where suicide is justified, and I'm not seeing one here. He's a coward, pure and simple.

I feel sympathy for his family. They're the real victims here.

RoonMian:

I actually have always believed suicide is selfish.

Whenever I read stuff like that I automatically enter full on rage-mode.

The stuff about "choosing what you with your life because it is YOUR life etc." at least invokes semi-rage-mode.

Nobody just offs himself because he can. Suicide is the result of suicidal thoughts which are a symptom of a clinical depression. Just as death by lung failure is the result of a diseased lung which is a symptom of lung cancer.

Calling someone selfish because he died of the disease depression is like calling someone lazy because he is paralyzed and just sits on his ass in his weelchair all day.

For f**ks sake, know what you're talking about before you open your mouths.

That is quite the assumption there. Committing suicide does not require chemical depression. Would you have us stop calling people with behavior issues murderers because they felt an impulse to kill? No, and a person's impulse to kill themselves does not justify their committing suicide.

Revnak:
The selfish individual being affected the most by an act does not stop the act from being selfish. An identity thief can take ten dollars from ten thousand bank accounts and would still be considered selfish. If he were then to burn all the money he would remain selfish. What determines whether or not an act is selfish is whether or not it is carried out with reasonable regard to all people who are affected, rather than disproportionately focusing on the self. Suicide is carried out with disproportionate focus upon the self. You die, they live on without you, questioning just what it is they could have done to keep you, to save you, what they did to kill you. You're simply gone.
I'm going to throw out that tired old fact about how the majority of suicide attempt survivors are glad they messed it up. Just because it seems like there is no other way doesn't mean there is no other way, in fact it almost never does. There is always another choice to be made, always something to live or die for, rather than something to die in avoidance of. Doing something in spite of fears is not true courage. True courage is doing something right despite fears. A man that kills his wife despite fearing the consequences is not courageous. Courage cannot, or at least should not be something selfish, rather it should be something selfless.

Suicide is not equivalent to stealing something and then setting it on fire, that's a poor analogy. A better equivalent would be to compare it to setting your house on fire (assuming you live alone and have no insurance) - your decision will confuse and trouble many people you know, but ultimately you are the only one who has been displaced by your decision, and no-one else is directly put out.
Though your family may live on without you, the effect on their lives, no matter how large, will never be as great as it had on your life, as your life has been ended by your actions.
I might point out that I do not think suicide is ever the correct solution to a problem, but I would never be so callous as to judge against someone for choosing to take their own life.

TheBobmus:

Revnak:
The selfish individual being affected the most by an act does not stop the act from being selfish. An identity thief can take ten dollars from ten thousand bank accounts and would still be considered selfish. If he were then to burn all the money he would remain selfish. What determines whether or not an act is selfish is whether or not it is carried out with reasonable regard to all people who are affected, rather than disproportionately focusing on the self. Suicide is carried out with disproportionate focus upon the self. You die, they live on without you, questioning just what it is they could have done to keep you, to save you, what they did to kill you. You're simply gone.
I'm going to throw out that tired old fact about how the majority of suicide attempt survivors are glad they messed it up. Just because it seems like there is no other way doesn't mean there is no other way, in fact it almost never does. There is always another choice to be made, always something to live or die for, rather than something to die in avoidance of. Doing something in spite of fears is not true courage. True courage is doing something right despite fears. A man that kills his wife despite fearing the consequences is not courageous. Courage cannot, or at least should not be something selfish, rather it should be something selfless.

Suicide is not equivalent to stealing something and then setting it on fire, that's a poor analogy. A better equivalent would be to compare it to setting your house on fire (assuming you live alone and have no insurance) - your decision will confuse and trouble many people you know, but ultimately you are the only one who has been displaced by your decision, and no-one else is directly put out.
Though your family may live on without you, the effect on their lives, no matter how large, will never be as great as it had on your life, as your life has been ended by your actions.
I might point out that I do not think suicide is ever the correct solution to a problem, but I would never be so callous as to judge against someone for choosing to take their own life.

Except you used to feed people there all the time, and your mother's favorite piano was still inside, and you best friend's baseball bat, etc. Other people have invested in you, left pieces of themselves in you, depend on you. When you kill yourself you are robbing them of that.
It doesn't matter if the overall effect on your life is bigger. All the matters is that they will feel extraordinary pain that you are gone and you will not. You are simply dead. It sucks to die, but it's hard to say you are really losing that much by dying if you willingly kill yourself. You did what you wanted, and that is a hard thing to feel sympathy for. The still living family members will go on and will have to experience the pain of losing you. That is not their own choice, it is not the result of their own actions, it is the result of your actions.

Revnak:

RoonMian:

I actually have always believed suicide is selfish.

Whenever I read stuff like that I automatically enter full on rage-mode.

The stuff about "choosing what you with your life because it is YOUR life etc." at least invokes semi-rage-mode.

Nobody just offs himself because he can. Suicide is the result of suicidal thoughts which are a symptom of a clinical depression. Just as death by lung failure is the result of a diseased lung which is a symptom of lung cancer.

Calling someone selfish because he died of the disease depression is like calling someone lazy because he is paralyzed and just sits on his ass in his weelchair all day.

For f**ks sake, know what you're talking about before you open your mouths.

That is quite the assumption there. Committing suicide does not require chemical depression. Would you have us stop calling people with behavior issues murderers because they felt an impulse to kill? No, and a person's impulse to kill themselves does not justify their committing suicide.

Since he shot himself in his home and did not set himself on fire in front of the chinese embassy or something like that it is actually a pretty safe bet that a depression is involved here. You don't just overcome the strongest instinct inside most living things just like that.

And I'm not saying being ill justifies commiting suicide. I'm saying being ill dramatically decreases your ability to choose not to commit suicide up to the point where in a severe depression there is no choice left at all for the patient. A severe depression can even cause symptoms of a psychosis. So imagine being severely depressed, hanging by a thread, maybe even being totally convinced that your family would be better of without you... And then having a voice inside your own head telling you to end it.

Maybe that's what went down. Maybe it was different. There is no doubt about that guy having a severe psychological crisis to just end his life though. No one can ever know what actually went through his mind in that instant but I am sure it wasn't pretty. So any accusations of him being selfish are tasteless, ignorant and cruel.

That's all I am going to say on that matter. The tone in this thread just makes me too angry. And that remark comparing someone commiting suicide to someone who murders someone else... I'm not even going to honor that with an answer.

RoonMian:
*snip*

How about scratching their ass in public, slapping someone who made fun of them, taking off all their clothes in front of children because it is hot, cheating on their wife? All of these are the results of impulses, and impulses do not justify actions. And the quality of the act will always be selfish, just like it is always selfish to cut in line or to take the extra slice of pizza. No amount of terrible living or strange thoughts can change the fact that some actions are selfish. And I still don't necessarily believe he was experiencing chemical depression, which I still don't believe justifies suicide or removes its selfish nature.

As someone who was born and raised in San Diego, I heard about Junior Seau a lot. I have nothing but respect for the man (even though he ditched left us for another team). It's a sad day for any of us that have ever had the pleasure of watching that man play.

If I wasn't so far away from home, I would drive to Mission Valley right now and lift a pint for him over at Seau's.

Revnak:

Except you used to feed people there all the time, and your mother's favorite piano was still inside, and you best friend's baseball bat, etc. Other people have invested in you, left pieces of themselves in you, depend on you. When you kill yourself you are robbing them of that.
It doesn't matter if the overall effect on your life is bigger. All the matters is that they will feel extraordinary pain that you are gone and you will not. You are simply dead. It sucks to die, but it's hard to say you are really losing that much by dying if you willingly kill yourself. You did what you wanted, and that is a hard thing to feel sympathy for. The still living family members will go on and will have to experience the pain of losing you. That is not their own choice, it is not the result of their own actions, it is the result of your actions.

I think that death is the ultimate pain you could feel, even more so than whatever pain has driven you to wanting to take your own life, and is the greatest thing to feel sympathy for. But we clearly give different value to different things here, which is what it fundamentally comes down to - the value you place on human life.
Anyway, I say we agree to disagree, if you don't mind? It's late and I've a movie to watch. Nice debating with you though, and kudos on keeping a civil head in your arguments.

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