Poll: California may ban gay teen 'conversion' therapy

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California may ban gay teen 'conversion' therapy

By HANNAH DREIER, Associated Press - 1 hour ago

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) - A first-of-its-kind ban on a controversial form of psychotherapy aimed at making gay people straight is speeding through the California statehouse.

Supporters say the legislation, which passed its final Senate committee Tuesday, is necessary because such treatments are ineffective and harmful.

"This therapy can be dangerous," said the bill's author Sen. Ted Lieu. The Torrance Democrat added the treatments can "cause extreme depression and guilt" that sometimes leads to suicide.

Conservative religious groups emphatically reject that view of sexual orientation therapy and say the ban would interfere with parents' rights to seek appropriate psychological care for their children.

The bill would prohibit so-called reparative therapy for minors and obligate adults to sign a release form that states that the counseling is ineffectual and possibly dangerous.

Representatives of the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality on Tuesday called the bill a piece of social engineering masquerading as a solution to a clinical problem.

David Pickup, who is registered with the California Board of Psychology, said a ban would prevent people from recovering from trauma of sexual abuse.

"Any therapist worth his salt knows that homosexual feelings commonly occur in victims as a result of abuses," he said. "I ought to know because I was one of those boys."

The debate comes as gay rights issues take the spotlight around the nation.

Over the weekend, Vice President Joe Biden said he is "absolutely comfortable" with same-sex couples getting the same rights as heterosexual couples.

In North Carolina on Tuesday, voters moved to define marriage as solely between a man and a woman. And in Colorado, a civil union bill faced a looming deadline in the state Legislature.

Conversion therapy penetrated the national consciousness last year when former Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann was questioned over whether her husband's Christian counseling business provided services that attempted to change gays and lesbians.

Interest in the religion-based therapy appears to have surged in recent years, sparking debates about whether sexual orientation is an immutable characteristic.

Exodus International, the world's largest Christian referral network dealing with homosexuality, now steers people to 260 groups across the country, up from about 100 a decade ago. The organization has 35 ministries and churches scattered around California, from the Central Valley to the U.S.-Mexico border.

Conservative religious leaders say it is important for families to have access to services as teens first awaken to their sexual orientation.

"When I was struggling with those things in the early '80s, the church didn't seem like it had a place for me," said Alan Chambers, president of Exodus International.

But mainstream mental health organizations say people should not be seeking out such ministries.

The American Psychological Association said in 2009 that mental health professionals shouldn't tell gay clients they can become straight through therapy.

The association cited research suggesting that efforts to produce the change could lead to depression and suicidal tendencies, and stated that no solid evidence exists that such change is possible.

The American Counseling Association and American Psychiatric Association have also disavowed the therapy. The psychiatric association removed homosexuality from its list of mental disorders nearly 30 years ago.

Last month, the author of a widely-cited 2001 study supportive of the notion that "highly motivated" people can change their sexual orientation retracted his study and apologized to the gay community.

Peter Drake, 55, testified Tuesday that he sought out conversion therapy in an effort to save his 20-year marriage, and the years of trying to change himself nearly drove him to suicide.

"I am left-handed and I am gay," he said. "I could learn to write with my other hand, but that is not who I am."

Gay rights advocates say a ban like the one proposed in California could represent a turning point and inspire similar legislation in other states.

The measure, which moves to the full Senate, would likely face legal challenges from opponents who say it is unconstitutional.

"We're talking about stepping into the doctors' room or the physiatrists' office and clamping a hand over the mouths of the clinicians," said Matthew McReynolds of the conservative-leaning Pacific Justice Institute.

Lieu says he addressed free speech issues in SB1172 by excluding clergy and other people who are not medical professionals from the legislation.

The practice has garnered attention in past years as teens sent by their parents to conversion therapy programs have shared their stories online.

Among the lawmakers who approved the bill Tuesday was Sen. Mark Leno, D-San Francisco. Leno said his parents sent him to a therapist when he first told them he might be gay, and it was only because the therapist did not pathologize his sexual orientation that he was able to come out of the closet.

"There are many that are trapped in this horror situation," he said. "And it can have extraordinarily negative impacts."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gvkgDoLMjlRAdGzkNXNbIUJNbznA?docId=581e481c673a42faa51270473df2345f

my thoughts, good job California,

um, i don't know why it says poll, i did not add one O.o

I think it's awesome that they're passing a law against an procedure that obviously doesn't work.

I mean it didn't work for several of the founders of Exodus International.

Ultratwinkie:
I already did a thread on this weeks ago.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.372922-California-to-ban-gay-therapy-for-minors?page=1

i guess this one can be deleted than

This is fantastic! I certainly hope it's passed. As someone who studies sexuality in depth, I find this conversion therapy abhorrent. Not to mention the fact that it's a tool used by people who supposedly love their children/other relatives so much that they want them to be "normal." Instead of trying to fit everyone onto this tiny little normal boat, why don't we expand the definition to include more people? It doesn't have to become a fucking cruise liner, but y'know...

Good for them. Mostly I don't really care about America one way or the other. But some American's views on gays I never understood. For a western country to be so retarded... Seriously WTF. Btw, I know not all Americans are homophobes/retarded. But in my country nobody thinks like that. We are F'ed up in different ways ;).

tofulove:
"Any therapist worth his salt knows that homosexual feelings commonly occur in victims as a result of abuses," he said. "I ought to know because I was one of those boys."

Wait for it. Waaaaaaiiiit foooooor iiiit.

It's good to see bills like this getting passed. These 'treatments' are completely ludicrous, and it's about time people stood up to them.

I realise I should be feeling happy that these laws are getting passed, but I was actually unaware of this whole "gay conversion therapy" thing until just now, so all I can feel is disgust that such a thing even exists. Shame on California, and shame on anyone who supports this kind of crap (the therapy itself, not the law).

The North Carolina part stood out to me. Really, NC? I mean, I know this state is full of a bunch of retards that can't drive for shit, but...

Really?

Interesting that my sister said that most younger people were against it, but that it was winning because old people were going out to vote on it. *Laughs*

Good job.

Now they can catch up with the rest of the Western world :D

Lunncal:
I realise I should be feeling happy that these laws are getting passed, but I was actually unaware of this whole "gay conversion therapy" thing until just now, so all I can feel is disgust that such a thing even exists. Shame on California, and shame on anyone who supports this kind of crap (the therapy itself, not the law).

you see a lot more of it the American bible belt.

in North Carlina it was already against the law, they just wanted to make it double against the law to let the hole world know they really don't like homosexuals.

tofulove:

Lunncal:
I realise I should be feeling happy that these laws are getting passed, but I was actually unaware of this whole "gay conversion therapy" thing until just now, so all I can feel is disgust that such a thing even exists. Shame on California, and shame on anyone who supports this kind of crap (the therapy itself, not the law).

you see a lot more of it the American bible belt.

ok, stop right there.

i am sick and damn tired of there always being a stupid ass 'bible belt' remark every time something controversial is brought up and some one doesn't agree with it because it doesn't fit there leftist agenda.

"What! people actually dont support the right to abortion! it must be the bible belt!"
"Those silly uneducated people with their guns in the bible belt!"
ect.

How about this?
Not everyone shares your opinion, not everyone agrees with what people think, not every right winger is religious or from the bible belt, not every person from the bible belt is a right winger or religious, and every time i hear someone use the term 'bible belt' to negatively stereotype people of a certain political or religious orientation, it makes me wonder where the real intolerant hicks are!

Yes the procedure is weird, yes people have the right to be gay, but at the same time, some parents may prefer there child to be straight because sometimes having a gay child....can be fucking weird! Its not like they are stoning them to death like in the mid east!

Jegsimmons:
ok, stop right there.

i am sick and damn tired of there always being a stupid ass 'bible belt' remark every time something controversial is brought up and some one doesn't agree with it because it doesn't fit there leftist agenda.

"What! people actually dont support the right to abortion! it must be the bible belt!"
"Those silly uneducated people with their guns in the bible belt!"
ect.

How about this?
Not everyone shares your opinion, not everyone agrees with what people think, not every right winger is religious or from the bible belt, not every person from the bible belt is a right winger or religious, and every time i hear someone use the term 'bible belt' to negatively stereotype people of a certain political or religious orientation, it makes me wonder where the real intolerant hicks are!

Yes the procedure is weird, yes people have the right to be gay, but at the same time, some parents may prefer there child to be straight because sometimes having a gay child....can be fucking weird! Its not like they are stoning them to death like in the mid east!

You do realize that the term "Bible Belt" does not refer to any given political or religious orientation right? It is referring to a collection of states that, as a whole, are predominantly Christian (and a significant portion of such, if not a majority, are fundamentalists). That's where the term came from, people in what is generally known as "The South" take their religion very seriously, often to the point of fanaticism.

Of course not every conservative is from the bible belt, nor is everyone in the bible belt conservative, but the overwhelming majority is, and that majority sets the laws and regulations of the states they reside in. Which ends up allowing/promoting practices like this.

Also, assuming the various psychiatrist organizations mentioned in the article were speaking the truth, trying to force a gay kid to be straight is just like stoning them to death. The only difference is that you're not actually throwing any rocks. Just piling on the psychological pressure until they snap and off themselves for you. It'd be a completely different story if there was proof that this kind of therapy actually accomplished something other than lasting psychological damage, but all the evidence indicates otherwise.

Agayek:

Jegsimmons:
ok, stop right there.

i am sick and damn tired of there always being a stupid ass 'bible belt' remark every time something controversial is brought up and some one doesn't agree with it because it doesn't fit there leftist agenda.

"What! people actually dont support the right to abortion! it must be the bible belt!"
"Those silly uneducated people with their guns in the bible belt!"
ect.

How about this?
Not everyone shares your opinion, not everyone agrees with what people think, not every right winger is religious or from the bible belt, not every person from the bible belt is a right winger or religious, and every time i hear someone use the term 'bible belt' to negatively stereotype people of a certain political or religious orientation, it makes me wonder where the real intolerant hicks are!

Yes the procedure is weird, yes people have the right to be gay, but at the same time, some parents may prefer there child to be straight because sometimes having a gay child....can be fucking weird! Its not like they are stoning them to death like in the mid east!

You do realize that the term "Bible Belt" does not refer to any given political or religious orientation right? It is referring to a collection of states that, as a whole, are predominantly Christian (and a significant portion of such, if not a majority, are fundamentalists). That's where the term came from, people in what is generally known as "The South" take their religion very seriously, often to the point of fanaticism.

Of course not every conservative is from the bible belt, nor is everyone in the bible belt conservative, but the overwhelming majority is, and that majority sets the laws and regulations of the states they reside in. Which ends up allowing/promoting practices like this.

Also, assuming the various psychiatrist organizations mentioned in the article were speaking the truth, trying to force a gay kid to be straight is just like stoning them to death. The only difference is that you're not actually throwing any rocks. Just piling on the psychological pressure until they snap and off themselves for you. It'd be a completely different story if there was proof that this kind of therapy actually accomplished something other than lasting psychological damage, but all the evidence indicates otherwise.

in know about the bible belt bro, im from the heart of it. (Alabama) and i actually have never even heard of gay conversion therapy outside of California.

And no, mental stress does not equal a stoning. not unless its an actual torture method used in a military will it be similar to a stoning.

but even then, is it the therapy that causing the suicide? or the fact that coming out of the closet as a teen is one of the most socially dangerous things you can ever do in any area of the nation? dude, school kids are fucking brutally mean!!! teen suicides happen to even straight people they're so fucking insane.

Jegsimmons:
in know about the bible belt bro, im from the heart of it. (Alabama) and i actually have never even heard of gay conversion therapy outside of California.

And no, mental stress does not equal a stoning. not unless its an actual torture method used in a military will it be similar to a stoning.

but even then, is it the therapy that causing the suicide? or the fact that coming out of the closet as a teen is one of the most socially dangerous things you can ever do in any area of the nation? dude, school kids are fucking brutally mean!!! teen suicides happen to even straight people they're so fucking insane.

The article quotes several spokesman for well known and established psychiatric organizations as saying the therapy can and often does cause depression and suicide. Since these organizations are known for knowing what they're talking about, I'm inclined to believe them, though I will admit that it's not proof one way or the other, since evidence is not provided.

As for the rest of it, I'd never actually heard of gay conversion therapy at all before this article. I have no idea where/how it's performed, and to be honest I don't really care. Barring evidence to the contrary however, it apparently creates a whole collection of problems for people that go through it, without actually accomplishing what it set out to do in the first place. If that's the case, it only makes sense to outlaw the practice.

Finally, inflicting mental stress is not perfectly equivalent to a stoning, no, but there are several parallels. The most obvious of which is when said mental stress drives the victim to suicide. Both are methods to cause a death because the victim doesn't fit with your preconceived worldview. It's methodically different yes, but the end result is the same.

Furthermore, the sentiment behind it is identical. "I don't like this fundamental aspect of you and you will be punished for it". That is not a healthy attitude for a parent to express to their child. There's all sorts of reasons why, but the most egregious one is because of basic decency.

Marvellous I am sure that will make all the gay people who live there more comfortable.
Just an observation but is anyone else noticing the abnormal spike in gay threads recently?

Agayek:

Jegsimmons:
in know about the bible belt bro, im from the heart of it. (Alabama) and i actually have never even heard of gay conversion therapy outside of California.

And no, mental stress does not equal a stoning. not unless its an actual torture method used in a military will it be similar to a stoning.

but even then, is it the therapy that causing the suicide? or the fact that coming out of the closet as a teen is one of the most socially dangerous things you can ever do in any area of the nation? dude, school kids are fucking brutally mean!!! teen suicides happen to even straight people they're so fucking insane.

The article quotes several spokesman for well known and established psychiatric organizations as saying the therapy can and often does cause depression and suicide. Since these organizations are known for knowing what they're talking about, I'm inclined to believe them, though I will admit that it's not proof one way or the other, since evidence is not provided.

As for the rest of it, I'd never actually heard of gay conversion therapy at all before this article. I have no idea where/how it's performed, and to be honest I don't really care. Barring evidence to the contrary however, it apparently creates a whole collection of problems for people that go through it, without actually accomplishing what it set out to do in the first place. If that's the case, it only makes sense to outlaw the practice.

Finally, inflicting mental stress is not perfectly equivalent to a stoning, no, but there are several parallels. The most obvious of which is when said mental stress drives the victim to suicide. Both are methods to cause a death because the victim doesn't fit with your preconceived worldview. It's methodically different yes, but the end result is the same.

Furthermore, the sentiment behind it is identical. "I don't like this fundamental aspect of you and you will be punished for it". That is not a healthy attitude for a parent to express to their child. There's all sorts of reasons why, but the most egregious one is because of basic decency.

true, but alot of times in these cases, people usually only view one side and dont try to take the other sides perspective into account or even a neutral one, i guess thats what really cheeses me off about alot of the gay right issues.

but if the procedure is actually (provable and not just bullshit) linked to depression and suicide, by all means put a stop to it!

i just really hate black and white issues they actually have half the color spectrum to them.

and really, i have no clue where im going with this anymore, im chatting on like 3 different threads and the birds ate my bread crumbs.

Hooray, now there's one less way parents can legally terrorize their children psychologically!

verdant monkai:
Marvellous I am sure that will make all the gay people who live there more comfortable.
Just an observation but is anyone else noticing the abnormal spike in gay threads recently?

Probably due to the many laws being debated/passed on the subject of gay marriage and the like. It's coming up a lot more in general conversation as well, I've found.

OT: I can't believe the word 'may' is in that title. Such practices are shameful and barbaric.

Jegsimmons:

but even then, is it the therapy that causing the suicide? or the fact that coming out of the closet as a teen is one of the most socially dangerous things you can ever do in any area of the nation? dude, school kids are fucking brutally mean!!! teen suicides happen to even straight people they're so fucking insane.

the problem is that being gay is something you can't change. The idea that you can change someones sexual orientation with therapy further enforces the idea that being gay is 'unnatural' and that it's a problem that can be fixed.

This is also during a time where kids emotions are going nuts, making them feel like there is something wrong with them is the exact opposite of helping them. Yes teens can be brutal which is why it shocks me that people still believe that being gay is a 'choice' who would possibly choose to be ridiculed and abused?

There is absolutley no proof that homosexuality can be cured, many of the 'cured' homosexuals live in abstinence which means that the 'cure' for being gay is to suppress it to the point where you can convince yourself you 'might be straight'

verdant monkai:
Marvellous I am sure that will make all the gay people who live there more comfortable.
Just an observation but is anyone else noticing the abnormal spike in gay threads recently?

between North Carolina's we hate them laws, New York's we love them laws, and California's eh you cant torture them laws, its bin in the news a lot. if its always in sight its in your mind. so people tend to think about it more, and discuss it more. those the increase in threads related to it.

Forcing therapy on kids is awful and clearly should be banned.

If you are an adult and mental enough to want to this therapy, crack on, your life.

Res Plus:
Forcing therapy on kids is awful and clearly should be banned.

If you are an adult and mental enough to want to this therapy, crack on, your life.

it doesn't matter if a parent can seek therapy for their kid until that person is 18 if they deem they need it. You would have to strip back parental rights and do a whole hell of lot of legal loop-holes in order to stop it. The kids them self or teens would have to be evaluated by a physicist to see if they could even be Emancipated from their parents to live on their own.

Limecake:

Jegsimmons:

but even then, is it the therapy that causing the suicide? or the fact that coming out of the closet as a teen is one of the most socially dangerous things you can ever do in any area of the nation? dude, school kids are fucking brutally mean!!! teen suicides happen to even straight people they're so fucking insane.

the problem is that being gay is something you can't change. The idea that you can change someones sexual orientation with therapy further enforces the idea that being gay is 'unnatural' and that it's a problem that can be fixed.

This is also during a time where kids emotions are going nuts, making them feel like there is something wrong with them is the exact opposite of helping them. Yes teens can be brutal which is why it shocks me that people still believe that being gay is a 'choice' who would possibly choose to be ridiculed and abused?

There is absolutley no proof that homosexuality can be cured, many of the 'cured' homosexuals live in abstinence which means that the 'cure' for being gay is to suppress it to the point where you can convince yourself you 'might be straight'

what shocks me is that people thinking gay as a choice isnt more powerful, if you say it isnt, then what else can you say isnt choice either? pedophilia? bestiality?
its not genetic, its environment and choice, and to me that more more powerful than saying "your genetically gay so you are gay no matter what, what somewhere down your life you switched to women? oh then you werent TRULY gay!"

how about "fuck you! im an adult and ill stick my wang in any consenting adult i choose! because thats the power of choice baby!"

To say its genetic, is to say you dont have that choice. what if a gay guy decides he's tired of being gay? what if he is sexually attracted to men, but decides he likes women or vise versa? what if he got bored? what if a lesbian was grossed out by cocks at age twenty, but by age 40 decided to give it a shot and decided to stay straight?

SHIT! i think people who say it isnt a choice are as bad as people saying behavior is based on race!

see my point? like you may be straight and get turned on by red heads, but loose interest and have a thing for blondes. is that genetics? nope, environment and choice.

Jegsimmons:

Limecake:

Jegsimmons:

but even then, is it the therapy that causing the suicide? or the fact that coming out of the closet as a teen is one of the most socially dangerous things you can ever do in any area of the nation? dude, school kids are fucking brutally mean!!! teen suicides happen to even straight people they're so fucking insane.

the problem is that being gay is something you can't change. The idea that you can change someones sexual orientation with therapy further enforces the idea that being gay is 'unnatural' and that it's a problem that can be fixed.

This is also during a time where kids emotions are going nuts, making them feel like there is something wrong with them is the exact opposite of helping them. Yes teens can be brutal which is why it shocks me that people still believe that being gay is a 'choice' who would possibly choose to be ridiculed and abused?

There is absolutley no proof that homosexuality can be cured, many of the 'cured' homosexuals live in abstinence which means that the 'cure' for being gay is to suppress it to the point where you can convince yourself you 'might be straight'

what shocks me is that people thinking gay as a choice isnt more powerful, if you say it isnt, then what else can you say isnt choice either? pedophilia? bestiality?
its not genetic, its environment and choice, and to me that more more powerful than saying "your genetically gay so you are gay no matter what, what somewhere down your life you switched to women? oh then you werent TRULY gay!"

how about "fuck you! im an adult and ill stick my wang in any consenting adult i choose! because thats the power of choice baby!"

To say its genetic, is to say you dont have that choice. what if a gay guy decides he's tired of being gay? what if he is sexually attracted to men, but decides he likes women or vise versa? what if he got bored? what if a lesbian was grossed out by cocks at age twenty, but by age 40 decided to give it a shot and decided to stay straight?

SHIT! i think people who say it isnt a choice are as bad as people saying behavior is based on race!

see my point? like you may be straight and get turned on by red heads, but loose interest and have a thing for blondes. is that genetics? nope, environment and choice.

1/10 either your are trying to rebuttal fox news headlines or your just trying to hard. I will keep it at this it is genetic who the hell chooses or wants to be gay due the amount of people out there that think like you? Being ousted by their parents, disowned, beat up at school, having a hard time to get a job, being called a "queer fag" online etc. No one willingly chooses that much mental break-down just to have sex with some of the same gender.

Cecilthedarkknight_234:

Jegsimmons:

Limecake:

the problem is that being gay is something you can't change. The idea that you can change someones sexual orientation with therapy further enforces the idea that being gay is 'unnatural' and that it's a problem that can be fixed.

This is also during a time where kids emotions are going nuts, making them feel like there is something wrong with them is the exact opposite of helping them. Yes teens can be brutal which is why it shocks me that people still believe that being gay is a 'choice' who would possibly choose to be ridiculed and abused?

There is absolutley no proof that homosexuality can be cured, many of the 'cured' homosexuals live in abstinence which means that the 'cure' for being gay is to suppress it to the point where you can convince yourself you 'might be straight'

what shocks me is that people thinking gay as a choice isnt more powerful, if you say it isnt, then what else can you say isnt choice either? pedophilia? bestiality?
its not genetic, its environment and choice, and to me that more more powerful than saying "your genetically gay so you are gay no matter what, what somewhere down your life you switched to women? oh then you werent TRULY gay!"

how about "fuck you! im an adult and ill stick my wang in any consenting adult i choose! because thats the power of choice baby!"

To say its genetic, is to say you dont have that choice. what if a gay guy decides he's tired of being gay? what if he is sexually attracted to men, but decides he likes women or vise versa? what if he got bored? what if a lesbian was grossed out by cocks at age twenty, but by age 40 decided to give it a shot and decided to stay straight?

SHIT! i think people who say it isnt a choice are as bad as people saying behavior is based on race!

see my point? like you may be straight and get turned on by red heads, but loose interest and have a thing for blondes. is that genetics? nope, environment and choice.

1/10 either your are trying to rebuttal fox news headlines or your just trying to hard. I will keep it at this it is genetic who the hell chooses or wants to be gay due the amount of people out there that think like you? Being ousted by their parents, disowned, beat up at school, having a hard time to get a job, being called a "queer fag" online etc. No one willingly chooses that much mental break-down just to have sex with some of the same gender.

1. dont rank me, this is neither trolling nor 4chan
2. stop assumeing everything is fox news related, its starting to get immature now.
3. yeah, people would risk bigotry for a choice, people who get abortions risk persecuted for their choice (though id argue who get what choice in that debate but i digress)
i make choices that get me picked on or ridiculed, being a gamer, not caring for sports, being an art major, ect. So the fact that gays choose to do something even at the risk of persecuted is to imply they are strong willed individuals. to say they are genetically predisposed to be gay take away that implication and opens up other doors you dont want open up, not to mention some holes in that theory (such as, if it is genetic, that would mean gay people wont last that many generations to come), and with that being you'd also have to accept the fact that a persons race holds the risk of genetic qualities be it negative or positive.
Plus the idea of a gay gene would not explain, bi-sexuality, or people who change from gay to straight or vise verse mid life.

Cecilthedarkknight_234:

Jegsimmons:

Limecake:

...

...

1/10 either your are trying to rebuttal fox news headlines or your just trying to hard. I will keep it at this it is genetic who the hell chooses or wants to be gay due the amount of people out there that think like you? Being ousted by their parents, disowned, beat up at school, having a hard time to get a job, being called a "queer fag" online etc. No one willingly chooses that much mental break-down just to have sex with some of the same gender.

I gotta step in here real quick and say something. You sir have simply told everyone that the human brain doesnt have plasticity. Plasticity=changeable. I have my own bias on this subject, but im more not happy with you thinking we dont have a choice.

Ever heard of the Kinsey scale? Many people bring it up to prove a point of everyone having less than 100% straight or homosexual tendencies. What alot of people dont bring up is that we move on the scale throughout our life, with a trend toward heterosexuality as we get older (thats only a trend, not an absolute).

Causes of homosexuality? People will say biology, and that is true, chemical releases can sway a person to one way. The thing about those chemicals is that they can be regulated/changed by our own selves. Its not easssyyy, but we can change. How are those chemicals like that though? Its a cross from a few things. Biology from genetics (This is not saying theres a 'gay' gene, but if you biological dad and mum swayed toward homosexuality, theres a chance you will to), and life experiences. Life experiences change up the brain HUGELY.

So, theres my 2 cents after my understanding into my studies into the neuropsych side of psychology.

OT: If these camps can come up with results that prove they are working, as well as can pass an ethics board, then why shouldnt they be allowed to? But if it fails either one of those, throw em out.

EDIT: If I got anything wrong in here, please correct me politely. <------ Keyword

I'm glad that there is (hopefully) going to be a ban on this stupidity. All they do in those places are put you through guilt and fear, and basically just change how you act outwardly, even though inside you are still the same. You just end up feeling ashamed for something that you felt was right for you. If you love a person with all your heart, who gives a damn what is between their legs? Why would people want to say that love is great, but only certain love between certain people? It is like the old laws saying that you could not marry outside your race or religion...
But, I am pleased that somebody has half a brain cell.

Jegsimmons:

tofulove:

Lunncal:
I realise I should be feeling happy that these laws are getting passed, but I was actually unaware of this whole "gay conversion therapy" thing until just now, so all I can feel is disgust that such a thing even exists. Shame on California, and shame on anyone who supports this kind of crap (the therapy itself, not the law).

you see a lot more of it the American bible belt.

ok, stop right there.

i am sick and damn tired of there always being a stupid ass 'bible belt' remark every time something controversial is brought up and some one doesn't agree with it because it doesn't fit there leftist agenda.

"What! people actually dont support the right to abortion! it must be the bible belt!"
"Those silly uneducated people with their guns in the bible belt!"
ect.

How about this?
Not everyone shares your opinion, not everyone agrees with what people think, not every right winger is religious or from the bible belt, not every person from the bible belt is a right winger or religious, and every time i hear someone use the term 'bible belt' to negatively stereotype people of a certain political or religious orientation, it makes me wonder where the real intolerant hicks are!

Yes the procedure is weird, yes people have the right to be gay, but at the same time, some parents may prefer there child to be straight because sometimes having a gay child....can be fucking weird! Its not like they are stoning them to death like in the mid east!

http://articles.philly.com/2011-03-18/news/29142081_1_stoning-death-court-documents-police

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Compared to most of the rest of the 'western world' including Europe, Canada and Australia, America can be pretty backward.

Jegsimmons:

Cecilthedarkknight_234:

Jegsimmons:

what shocks me is that people thinking gay as a choice isnt more powerful, if you say it isnt, then what else can you say isnt choice either? pedophilia? bestiality?
its not genetic, its environment and choice, and to me that more more powerful than saying "your genetically gay so you are gay no matter what, what somewhere down your life you switched to women? oh then you werent TRULY gay!"

how about "fuck you! im an adult and ill stick my wang in any consenting adult i choose! because thats the power of choice baby!"

To say its genetic, is to say you dont have that choice. what if a gay guy decides he's tired of being gay? what if he is sexually attracted to men, but decides he likes women or vise versa? what if he got bored? what if a lesbian was grossed out by cocks at age twenty, but by age 40 decided to give it a shot and decided to stay straight?

SHIT! i think people who say it isnt a choice are as bad as people saying behavior is based on race!

see my point? like you may be straight and get turned on by red heads, but loose interest and have a thing for blondes. is that genetics? nope, environment and choice.

1/10 either your are trying to rebuttal fox news headlines or your just trying to hard. I will keep it at this it is genetic who the hell chooses or wants to be gay due the amount of people out there that think like you? Being ousted by their parents, disowned, beat up at school, having a hard time to get a job, being called a "queer fag" online etc. No one willingly chooses that much mental break-down just to have sex with some of the same gender.

1. dont rank me, this is neither trolling nor 4chan
2. stop assumeing everything is fox news related, its starting to get immature now.
3. yeah, people would risk bigotry for a choice, people who get abortions risk persecuted for their choice (though id argue who get what choice in that debate but i digress)
i make choices that get me picked on or ridiculed, being a gamer, not caring for sports, being an art major, ect. So the fact that gays choose to do something even at the risk of persecuted is to imply they are strong willed individuals. to say they are genetically predisposed to be gay take away that implication and opens up other doors you dont want open up, not to mention some holes in that theory (such as, if it is genetic, that would mean gay people wont last that many generations to come), and with that being you'd also have to accept the fact that a persons race holds the risk of genetic qualities be it negative or positive.
Plus the idea of a gay gene would not explain, bi-sexuality, or people who change from gay to straight or vise verse mid life.

hahahaha oh wow I needed a good laugh today thank you for that. The main reason I mentioned fox news is due in part that you sound like an a-typical viewer but i might be wrong.. Hell the human population is at or over 7 billion now i think weeding down would actually be good for the planet but that's for another thread. The thing is you assume to know this however you don't have that person's mind-set or state of mind so how can you know what a person is feeling or thinking?? My cousin was ousted by his over zealot when he was younger for being gay, disowned for nearly 13 years.

However they grew to accept over time and guess what.. he is still gay and over 36 now. That whole bestiality/pedo bs is the same thing my mother brings up which is well bs. A human being or another fellow human is only capable of return those feelings of love animals and children due not have the brain capacity or the ability to which is why doing rex is ILLEGAL. You really should read up on brain chemistry and how the mind works, frontal lobe , per-cortex etc and how it controls emotions which plays into this. There is no damn gay gene to put it simply it's all complex hard-wiring of the brain at birth, then again I am sure if they could screen this during pregnancy republicans would be getting abortions as well.

thethird0611:
I gotta step in here real quick and say something. You sir have simply told everyone that the human brain doesnt have plasticity. Plasticity=changeable. I have my own bias on this subject, but im more not happy with you thinking we dont have a choice.

Ever heard of the Kinsey scale? Many people bring it up to prove a point of everyone having less than 100% straight or homosexual tendencies. What alot of people dont bring up is that we move on the scale throughout our life, with a trend toward heterosexuality as we get older (thats only a trend, not an absolute).

Causes of homosexuality? People will say biology, and that is true, chemical releases can sway a person to one way. The thing about those chemicals is that they can be regulated/changed by our own selves. Its not easssyyy, but we can change. How are those chemicals like that though? Its a cross from a few things. Biology from genetics (This is not saying theres a 'gay' gene, but if you biological dad and mum swayed toward homosexuality, theres a chance you will to), and life experiences. Life experiences change up the brain HUGELY.

So, theres my 2 cents after my understanding into my studies into the neuropsych side of psychology.

While you're correct on the Kinsey scale and whatnot, I think it needs to be made clear that we don't actually know what causes homosexuality. It could be life experiences leading you to become gay, it could be a hardcoded gene that makes you go gay, a sub-conscious choice based on associations with genders and whatnot, some combination of the above, or just about anything else.

We simply don't know what drives sexual attraction to the same gender.

Is it possible that your sexuality can be intentionally altered? Yes, but judging by the studies performed on the matter and what the bigger psychiatric organizations have to say on the matter, it's not terribly likely.

Jegsimmons:
1. dont rank me, this is neither trolling nor 4chan
2. stop assumeing everything is fox news related, its starting to get immature now.
3. yeah, people would risk bigotry for a choice, people who get abortions risk persecuted for their choice (though id argue who get what choice in that debate but i digress)
i make choices that get me picked on or ridiculed, being a gamer, not caring for sports, being an art major, ect. So the fact that gays choose to do something even at the risk of persecuted is to imply they are strong willed individuals. to say they are genetically predisposed to be gay take away that implication and opens up other doors you dont want open up, not to mention some holes in that theory (such as, if it is genetic, that would mean gay people wont last that many generations to come), and with that being you'd also have to accept the fact that a persons race holds the risk of genetic qualities be it negative or positive.
Plus the idea of a gay gene would not explain, bi-sexuality, or people who change from gay to straight or vise verse mid life.

I'm pretty sure that being homosexual is not a choice by definition. A guy is not homosexual because they choose to sleep only with men, they're homosexual because they are sexually attracted to men only. A man could sleep only with women for his entire life and still be gay if he was only actually attracted to men. That's not to say it's purely genetic or anything, there's almost certainly environmental effects and such to take into account, but there probably are genes that predispose people towards homosexuality, as similar kinds of genes have been found in other organisms. Oh, and there's no hole in that theory, there's plenty of reasons a "gay gene" (or similar thing) could last forever in the gene-pool (the gene being recessive, for example). Also, people's races do hold the risk of positive and negative qualities, e.g. Caucasians are more likely to get skin cancer than people of other races.

Agayek:

thethird0611:
I gotta step in here real quick and say something. You sir have simply told everyone that the human brain doesnt have plasticity. Plasticity=changeable. I have my own bias on this subject, but im more not happy with you thinking we dont have a choice.

Ever heard of the Kinsey scale? Many people bring it up to prove a point of everyone having less than 100% straight or homosexual tendencies. What alot of people dont bring up is that we move on the scale throughout our life, with a trend toward heterosexuality as we get older (thats only a trend, not an absolute).

Causes of homosexuality? People will say biology, and that is true, chemical releases can sway a person to one way. The thing about those chemicals is that they can be regulated/changed by our own selves. Its not easssyyy, but we can change. How are those chemicals like that though? Its a cross from a few things. Biology from genetics (This is not saying theres a 'gay' gene, but if you biological dad and mum swayed toward homosexuality, theres a chance you will to), and life experiences. Life experiences change up the brain HUGELY.

So, theres my 2 cents after my understanding into my studies into the neuropsych side of psychology.

While you're correct on the Kinsey scale and whatnot, I think it needs to be made clear that we don't actually know what causes homosexuality. It could be life experiences leading you to become gay, it could be a hardcoded gene that makes you go gay, a sub-conscious choice based on associations with genders and whatnot, some combination of the above, or just about anything else.

We simply don't know what drives sexual attraction to the same gender.

Is it possible that your sexuality can be intentionally altered? Yes, but judging by the studies performed on the matter and what the bigger psychiatric organizations have to say on the matter, it's not terribly likely.

Yeah, I should of put that out there a bit more. I was more popping in about plasticity there. You are right though. There a quite a few studies that predict/correlate homosexuality, but nothing concrete. I am glad though that someones sees the changeability, and I quite agree with you about the difficulty. Hell, its hard for people to just quit smoking.

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