DEC 21 2012, Busted!

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Unprecedented Maya Mural Found, Contradicts 2012 "Doomsday" Myth

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Under the Guatemalan jungle, 1,200-year-old paintings like no others

In the last known largely unexcavated Maya megacity, archaeologists have uncovered the only known mural adorning an ancient Maya house, a new study says. and it's not just any mural.

In addition to a still vibrant scene of a king and his retinue, the walls are rife with calculations that helped ancient scribes track vast amounts of time. Contrary to the idea the Maya predicted the end of the world in 2012, the markings suggest dates thousands of years in the future.

Perhaps most important, the otherwise humble chamber offers a rare glimpse into the inner workings of Maya society.

"The paintings we have here-we've never found them anyplace else," excavation leader William Saturno told National Geographic News.

And in today's Xultún, to the untrained eye, just 6 square miles (16 square kilometers) of jungle floor.
it's a wonder Saturno's team found the artwork at all.

....

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But what was really interesting was what the team found next.

Working with epigrapher David Stuart and archaeologist and artist Heather Hurst, the researchers noticed several barely visible hieroglyphic texts, painted and etched along the east and north walls of the room.

One is a lunar table, and the other is a "ring number", something previously known only from much later Maya books, where it was used as part of a backward calculation in establishing a base date for planetary cycles.
Nearby is a sequence of numbered intervals corresponding to key calendrical and planetary cycles.

The calculations include dates some 7,000 years in the future, adding to evidence against the idea that the Maya thought the world would end in 2012, a modern myth inspired by an ancient calendar that depicts time starting over this year.


"We keep looking for endings," expedition leader Saturno said in a statement. "The Maya were looking for a guarantee that nothing would change. It's an entirely different mindset."

Though the idea of cyclical time is nothing new in Maya studies, team member Rossi added, the Xultún mural is by far the earliest known expression of the concept.

video: (dont know how to embed videos that are not on youtube or other known hosting sites, sorry. but it is worth it!)
http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/news/history-archaeology-news/maya-art-calendar-vin/

source:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/05/120510-maya-2012-doomsday-calendar-end-of-world-science/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/guatemala/9259069/Oldest-Mayan-calendar-found-in-Guatemala.html

for discussion value:
1) have you had a bad feeling about this date at all? do you know someone who had?

2) what do you think are the reasons Humans are so fascinated/are longing for the end of our existence/the beginning of the Apocalypse?

3) lets pretend this actually really predicts events:
now that we 'have more time' to evolve, to plan and to probably venture forth from this planet, do you think this 'knowledge' might still frighten humankind?

the last to discuss this will accidently trigger the apocalypse!

I don't know anyone that did think it was "the end of the world" this year.

There have been that many predictions on "the end of the world" and behold..... the world is still kicking.

There is zero chance of any cataclysmic events ending the human race any time soon.

If i'm wrong, feel free to call me out on it afterwards.

Rawne1980:
If i'm wrong

Since when has a Para ever been right? :3

OT: Whilst I really don't care for some speculation over the apocalypse, I do find everything about their culture to be pretty damn interesting - especially their use of Space and planetary cycles for calculating time. More to the point, HOW they knew about/used the planets.

Rawne1980:
There is zero chance of any cataclysmic events ending the human race any time soon.

Theres hardly zero chance, I think its a bit higher than that. I dont think the chance is raised or lowered by ancient maya prophecies though.

Contrary to the idea the Maya predicted the end of the world in 2012, the markings suggest dates thousands of years in the future.

Stopped reading there. Actually the urge to stop reading started with the title of the article but at this point it became overwhelming. It's a stupid article explaining stupid things.

To compensate for this, I plan to spend 2013 doing nothing but talking about Mayans. My relationships with my friends and family may not fare well.

rhizhim:
1) have you had a bad feeling about this date at all? do you know someone who had?

No. I only know people who poke fun of this - one has his birthday on the 21st of December and he has a lot of fun with that - when talking woth people who don't know him a lot, he'll either moan his fate of never getting to have his birthday or boasts he'llthrow such a huge party that the world may end (and then acts confused if the Mayan calendar is brought up).

rhizhim:
2) what do you think are the reasons Humans are so fascinated/are longing for the end of our existence/the beginning of the Apocalypse?

Fuck if I know. The world should have ended in the beginning of 2000, at the start of the new millennium...for reasons still unknown to me. Not to mention that the new millennium actually started in 2001 and people weren't that worried about it then. The world is constantly about to end. The "Oh, it's predicted we'll die in X year" rumours have been around forever. The Mayan thing only got a lot of coverage fairly recently - I don't remember anybody talking about it in 1999 (when the world was about the end, of course) nor in 2000 (when it didn't) nor in 2001 (when it should have actually ended) or for several years after. And then a bunch of idiots (read: the media) started fanning the flames for sensation.

As a matter of fact, the last theory I heard before the Mayan thing was that NASA (or some other scientists, dunno) "predicted" that Earth will be hit by a meteor in 2020 (not the actual year, I don't care enough to remember what it was).

rhizhim:
3) lets pretend this actually really predicts events:
now that we 'have more time' to evolve, to plan and to probably venture forth from this planet, do you think this 'knowledge' might still frighten humankind?

People are stupid. Yes, they'll still be frightened. There will be stupid shit like this all the time. I'm warning you now, brace yourselves for the 2030-ies when the media will exaggerate the threat of year 2038 (think the Y2K bug - it's exactly like that but for different systems).

rhizhim:
4) now that a new artefact/ruin has debunked the mystery or better said, the credibility of the mystery around the former artefact/ruin has been ruined (pun intended):

a) what does this mean for other artifacts?
will people stop 'making' or 'finding' mysteries around them

No. Read above: people are stupid. The Loch Ness monster is still at large, no? And so on and so forth. There would always be those pseudoscientists who would make stuff up. And there would be people who buy it. FFS, in January I watched some TV and came across one of the serious TV networks that was discussing the Mayan "prediction". They had guests, too - a numerologist, an astrologer, a tarot reader, a psychic and a dude who didn't have magical powers but was studying them (don't know his actual title - think cryptozoologist but doesn't deal with animals - that sort of scientist). And they were having a serious discussion on nation TV about that bullshit. For about five minutes they said nothing important at all - it wouldn't have made a difference if they just sat there in silence, but after those five minutes I couldn't take it any more and just changed the channel.

rhizhim:
b) might we find a bible 2, a second rosetta stone or do you think we already have found it?

I don't really know, nor do I care. For all that is worth, I doubt The Bible 2.0 will be "found". It's not like we found the first one lying somewhere.

Because us already knowing this and the fact that the mayans themselves who are still around have denied that the apocalypse should be happening just wasn't enough.

Well at least this will stop some people from rambling on about the world ending. Emphasis on some, these are people who believe the world will end because an ancient calendar stops.

I prefer the Prometheus version anyway :P.

rhizhim:
b) might we find a bible 2, a second rosetta stone or do you think we already have found it?

A second Rosetta stone? The Rosetta stone was important because it contained the same message in different languages, allowing people to understand hieorglyphic by comparing that message to the languages they already knew. They've found other similar multi-language messages containing hieroglyphics since (one almost immediately after it was no longer that important, IIRC), but you only mean one.

They've also found similar multi-language documents that have allowed other languages to be deciphered.

In regards to the Bible, eh, they still haven't revealed all of what it said on the Dead Sea scrolls.

rhizhim:
2) what do you think are the reasons Humans are so fascinated/are longing for the end of our existence/the beginning of the Apocalypse?

image

Humans have always been obsessed with the idea that the world is about to end due to some supernatural power or other. Personally, I think we should concern ourselves more with actual problems than dreaming up invented ones.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Rawne1980:
There is zero chance of any cataclysmic events ending the human race any time soon.

Theres hardly zero chance, I think its a bit higher than that. I dont think the chance is raised or lowered by ancient maya prophecies though.

It was a lead up to a joke Smash.

I said afterwards if i'm wrong you can call me out on it afterwards.

I admit it sounded far more amusing in my head.

thaluikhain:

rhizhim:
b) might we find a bible 2, a second rosetta stone or do you think we already have found it?

A second Rosetta stone? The Rosetta stone was important because it contained the same message in different languages, allowing people to understand hieorglyphic by comparing that message to the languages they already knew. They've found other similar multi-language messages containing hieroglyphics since (one almost immediately after it was no longer that important, IIRC), but you only mean one.

They've also found similar multi-language documents that have allowed other languages to be deciphered.

In regards to the Bible, eh, they still haven't revealed all of what it said on the Dead Sea scrolls.

rhizhim:
2) what do you think are the reasons Humans are so fascinated/are longing for the end of our existence/the beginning of the Apocalypse?

image

Humans have always been obsessed with the idea that the world is about to end due to some supernatural power or other. Personally, I think we should concern ourselves more with actual problems than dreaming up invented ones.

You get all the points for making a Beckett reference :D

Humans have always been obsessed with their own mortality, so the idea that something can come along and wipe us all out is a very discomforting, and popular, idea.

Who the hell actually believed that tripe? They said the world was going to end 2006, it didn't, so they moved it to 2012.

thaluikhain:

rhizhim:
b) might we find a bible 2, a second rosetta stone or do you think we already have found it?

A second Rosetta stone? The Rosetta stone was important because it contained the same message in different languages.

They've also found similar multi-language documents that have allowed other languages to be deciphered.

In regards to the Bible, eh, they still haven't revealed all of what it said on the Dead Sea scrolls.

i know the bible consist of many found scrolls and i put it in the conspiracy spoiler box because we already know that they have found several other scrolls (like the Gospel of Judas)
that are under closure for some reason.

as for the rosetta stone:
i know. i should have used a better example but i could not think of any at that time.
just wanted to post some that have had a major effect on human history or the understanding thereof.

DoPo:

Contrary to the idea the Maya predicted the end of the world in 2012, the markings suggest dates thousands of years in the future.

Stopped reading there. Actually the urge to stop reading started with the title of the article but at this point it became overwhelming. It's a stupid article explaining stupid things.

...

one has his birthday on the 21st of December and boasts he'll throw such a huge party that the world may end (the best kind of apocalypse).

....

FFS, in January I watched some TV and came across one of the serious TV networks that was discussing the Mayan "prediction". They had guests, too - a numerologist, an astrologer, a tarot reader, a psychic and a dude who didn't have magical powers but was studying them (don't know his actual title - think cryptozoologist but doesn't deal with animals - that sort of scientist). And they were having a serious discussion on nation TV about that bullshit.

like you pointed out by describing this talk show.( aren't you making this up?. i am glad i stopped watching television)
people tend to be dumb.
some even can't be bothered with anything without adding something terrifying to wake their interest.

i think the author just happened to make good use/to spice up the article with humankinds favorite rampant superstitions to please the masses and get a bit of knowledge out to the world.

but its still a nice discovery. especially since it is one no one would have really expected:

But for the scientists, the mural is also about the joy of discovery.

"To be uncovering glyphs and reading them right off the wall-to be the first one in 1,200 years to read something? I mean, it's pretty wild," Rossi said.

Sadly, we may never understand the full context of the workroom. Many of the glyphs are badly faded. Worse, the entire city of Xultún was looted clean during the 70s, leaving very little other writing or antiquities.

Because of this, and despite Xultún's obvious prominence in the Maya world, many archaeologists had written off the site.

"And yet we've still found things here that we've never seen anyplace else," excavation leader Saturno said. "And we only started looking three years ago."

i wanted to make the title 'DEC 21: INEVITABLE MAYAN APOCALYPSE, postponed', but i was scared some might not get it and start to worry about what will happen 7000 years in the future.

and i was curious to know if some people here believe in it and if they do, why they believe in it.

i wanted to find out why people try to find mysteries or create superstitions.

but i may as well have answered my own questions.
some people can't be bothered with anything unless it involves something terrifying to it.

I know one person who actually believed it, and it took about half an hour to convince her otherwise (along with how Obama is not the anti-christ). Anyone who does believe it's the end isn't thinking very hard about it.

As for why humans constantly think the apocalypse is coming, I think it's because we're self-important beings. We like to think that there is something special about our times, and the entire universe being destroyed is basically the logical conclusion to that.

Sort of a shame that it takes away the focus from truly interesting periods of history, such as the digital revolution we're currently experiencing, the industrial revolution that did happen, and various other periods of history.

Rawne1980:
I don't know anyone that did think it was "the end of the world" this year.

There have been that many predictions on "the end of the world" and behold..... the world is still kicking.

There is zero chance of any cataclysmic events ending the human race any time soon.

If i'm wrong, feel free to call me out on it afterwards.

I remember watching a Wifeswap episode where the parents killed their credit score, used all their kids college funds, basically convinced their kids the worlds going to end and even built a bunker in their back yard.

Essentially ruining their kids lives all because of this stupid fricken world ending phenomenon. Which when they described it was physically impossible. They said the solar system was going to fling itself into the super-massive black hole thats in the center of the galaxy. Which is 25,000 light years away.

So far science has yet to be observe or create anything that go faster than light and Albert Einstein's E=Mc2 shows that its impossible.

-shakes head- Ignorant people do exist, because they exist anything, no matter how moronic or improbable will have followers.

Interesting find, old news. Honestly, the idea that the 13th baktun's end heralded the end of the world was easy enough to debunk with even a token amount of research. And that's been the case for years - if not decades - now. This was a prime example of how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, as the most many people seem to know about the Mayan Calendar is what people with a similar dearth of knowledge shoved down their throats.

Zack Alklazaris:

Rawne1980:
I don't know anyone that did think it was "the end of the world" this year.

There have been that many predictions on "the end of the world" and behold..... the world is still kicking.

There is zero chance of any cataclysmic events ending the human race any time soon.

If i'm wrong, feel free to call me out on it afterwards.

I remember watching a Wifeswap episode where the parents killed their credit score, used all their kids college funds, basically convinced their kids the worlds going to end and even built a bunker in their back yard.

Essentially ruining their kids lives all because of this stupid fricken world ending phenomenon. Which when they described it was physically impossible. They said the solar system was going to fling itself into the super-massive black hole thats in the center of the galaxy. Which is 25,000 light years away.

So far science has yet to be observe or create anything that go faster than light and Albert Einstein's E=Mc2 shows that its impossible.

-shakes head- Ignorant people do exist, because they exist anything, no matter how moronic or improbable will have followers.

hahaha

why the fuck would you build a shelter on the very planet that is going to fling itself into the galaxys central point?

I completely forgot about it

Pah! I never believed in 2012! 2011 is just twice as long and we skip straight to 2013.

The Myans never protected the end of the world in 2012. The Myan calander could go into the billions of years in the future. People who think the end was predicted are doing the equivilent of "OMG, I found a calander that ends Dec 31 of [insert any year] so the manufacturer and culture must have believed the world would end then!!!!"

Now to be fair, this is closer to an "end of milenium" than "end of year" for the myan calender, but a printed calander running out dates means the calander is over, not the world.

If you believed in 2012 before this, I don't think this is going to help anything.

Put simply, People who did believe in 2012 being the "End of the world" at any point, were and are intellectually broken idiots.

1) Of course the Mayans didn't use the Roman calender and so didn't account for leap years.... So if there was any prediction of the end of the world from the Mayans (which there isn't) the date on which it said to be predicted happened some time last year.....

2) There is only a finite amount of stone in the world, the Mayans had to sop making calenders at some point.

3) How can a race that carried out ritual sacrifice and didn't even invent a wheel predict the end of the whole world by events they had no comprehension of, but not foresee the Spainish coming to wipe just them out.

rhizhim:

Zack Alklazaris:

Rawne1980:
I don't know anyone that did think it was "the end of the world" this year.

There have been that many predictions on "the end of the world" and behold..... the world is still kicking.

There is zero chance of any cataclysmic events ending the human race any time soon.

If i'm wrong, feel free to call me out on it afterwards.

I remember watching a Wifeswap episode where the parents killed their credit score, used all their kids college funds, basically convinced their kids the worlds going to end and even built a bunker in their back yard.

Essentially ruining their kids lives all because of this stupid fricken world ending phenomenon. Which when they described it was physically impossible. They said the solar system was going to fling itself into the super-massive black hole thats in the center of the galaxy. Which is 25,000 light years away.

So far science has yet to be observe or create anything that go faster than light and Albert Einstein's E=Mc2 shows that its impossible.

-shakes head- Ignorant people do exist, because they exist anything, no matter how moronic or improbable will have followers.

hahaha

why the fuck would you build a shelter on the very planet that is going to fling itself into the galaxys central point?

Maybe its designed for black holes?
IDK maybe they believed people would start a war during the end of the world.

I think it's time to bring this out again:

image

There's never really been any question that this was much ado about nothing. I mean, the world didn't end in January when my 2011 calendar ran out; I just went and bought a new calendar. This is the same thing, just with a bigger calendar.

The truly depressing thing in all this is how this so-called doomsday passing by and leaving us unharmed isn't going to stop some other New Age nutjob from bringing up anything from Nibiru to Nostradamus to the Zeta Reticuli finally moving their asses and deciding to culturally and technologically uplift us all.

It'll pass, nothing will happen, and then people are going to start looking for a new reason to panic. "Quick, I need a new pie-in-the-sky theory to validate my eccentric behavior that should probably warrant the use of mild anti-psychotics!"

Either that or the Christian Doomsday freaks are going to come up with a *new* calculation and say they're seriously serious, this time around! For really reals!

The reason people believe stuff like the end of the world is because they are really fucking stupid. The reason people create dates like that is because they want to be famous.

thaluikhain:

In regards to the Bible, eh, they still haven't revealed all of what it said on the Dead Sea scrolls.

Thats just because the church cant decide what they want it to say.

rhizhim:
like you pointed out by describing this talk show.( aren't you making this up?. i am glad i stopped watching television)
people tend to be dumb.

No, I wish I was making it up. Techincally I stopped watching TV, to...but that's mainly because I don't have one. But every once in a while while I'm home, I somehow decide "What the hell? Let's see what's on" and I'd regret it.

Anyway, I remembered I had something related to 2012. I found it an interesting read, so I copied it. The document it from 2008, so I haven't read it for approximately 4 years now. (3 years and 7 months to be precise, judging from the date). It was a forum thread from somewhere (I'm thinking it was TES Nexus forums but I'm not sure) but it was off topic from the board itself (makes sense - TES mods and the end of the world don't mix) and it was locked or deleted as far as I recall. It talked about why people are likely to view certain dates as "ominous" and related things. It was heavy on numbers and their meaning for people. Take it as you will - I don't remember whether it was correct or wrong, but it was certainly amusing to read.

Rage19:
1) Of course the Mayans didn't use the Roman calender and so didn't account for leap years.... So if there was any prediction of the end of the world from the Mayans (which there isn't) the date on which it said to be predicted happened some time last year.....

2) There is only a finite amount of stone in the world, the Mayans had to sop making calenders at some point.

3) How can a race that carried out ritual sacrifice and didn't even invent a wheel predict the end of the whole world by events they had no comprehension of, but not foresee the Spainish coming to wipe just them out.

image

Jokes aside, I didn't think the world would end at all

I think the whole 2012 theory was debunked around the time that it was, well lets be honest, created. Some ancient painting being discovered doesn't change the fact that it was fucking nonsense to begin with! Seriously, why are we even talking about it still?! IT'S POPPYCOCK! It's cock of the poppiest variety!

*Takes a deep breath* Alright, I'm calm, I'm calm.
I just can't understand the mindset of someone who follows a theory set by a society that hasn't existed for centuries. Oh well, maybe I'm the one in the wrong and the world really will end... FUCK THAT, ITS POPPYCOCK!!!

Hookman:
I think the whole 2012 theory was debunked around the time that it was, well lets be honest, created. Some ancient painting being discovered doesn't change the fact that it was fucking nonsense to begin with! Seriously, why are we even talking about it still?! IT'S POPPYCOCK! It's cock of the poppiest variety!

*Takes a deep breath* Alright, I'm calm, I'm calm.
I just can't understand the mindset of someone who follows a theory set by a society that hasn't existed for centuries. Oh well, maybe I'm the one in the wrong and the world really will end... FUCK THAT, ITS POPPYCOCK!!!

who do you mean by a society that hasn't existed for centuries?

rhizhim:

Hookman:
I think the whole 2012 theory was debunked around the time that it was, well lets be honest, created. Some ancient painting being discovered doesn't change the fact that it was fucking nonsense to begin with! Seriously, why are we even talking about it still?! IT'S POPPYCOCK! It's cock of the poppiest variety!

*Takes a deep breath* Alright, I'm calm, I'm calm.
I just can't understand the mindset of someone who follows a theory set by a society that hasn't existed for centuries. Oh well, maybe I'm the one in the wrong and the world really will end... FUCK THAT, ITS POPPYCOCK!!!

who do you mean by a society that hasn't existed for centuries?

The Mayans, they were wiped out by the spanish around the year 1500. They still have descendants but the culture is completely gone. To reitirate, POPPYCOCK!

Oh yeah, well if the world doesn't end in 2012, then why doesn't my calender show next year?!

Prove that with your fancy "science" and "evidence".

The end of the world will actually happen on January 13th, 2032.

You know why? It will be the day when, after 31 years of confusion, everyone who looks at a date written in three two-digit numbers will know exactly what date it is without the possibility of confusing month/day/year.

01/13/32
32/01/13
13/01/32

Any way you look at it, you can't mistake it.

The combined sudden realization of that date will drive all of humanity mad and civilization will collapse into chaos. We'll suddenly realize how far in the future we are and our brains won't be able to handle it!

...Can you really "debunk" something that really didn't have any "bunk" to begin with?

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Theres hardly zero chance, I think its a bit higher than that. I dont think the chance is raised or lowered by ancient maya prophecies though.

The really sad part is that the Mayan calendar doesn't even predict anything. All it does is spell out when the end of the current galactic cycle. Essentially, it specifies the exact time that the Earth, Sun and the Galactic Core will be in perfect alignment.

That's literally it.

The Mayans believed time was cyclical, and that once that alignment was made, we would move into the next cycle. That's quite literally all there is to the Mayan calendar.

Somebody somehow convinced themselves that the end of the cycle means the world's going to explode or something equally retarded and the media seized on it. It's utterly ridiculous and anyone that actually believes that shit needs to be slapped upside the head for being a complete waste of space.

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