Why do people hate the army?

 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 NEXT
 

Im only a reservist, so i can't speak for frontline soldiers.

I nearly got in a fistfight tonight with someone who cheapened what the Irish army does, and belittled their contribution to UN peace keeping mission by labeling them mercenaries.

They broadened their vague assertions to all western armies and then had the gall to lecture me on patriotism, whilst at the same time belittling what little bit i have contributed when they have done nothing. This wasn't someone trolling me for fun, but a genuine arsehole who hates the army but is more manly than them..... how is christ's name do you deal/educate a person like that and not willingly murder them?

He called me a cheerleader, and you know what... fine.... I'll happily laud to everyone the contributions the defence forces make, ill readily admit im only a reservist sandbag scumbag.... A civilian can only contribute so much, but what i can do, i bloody well do. Why should i be ashamed of that, and why should i be ashamed of the Irish army? Why should anyone be ashamed of their army?

It seems if you respect the army you're a patriot, and patriotism is bad because it means you hate everyone that isn't from your country. I've had a few 'debates' with escapist members about 'patriotism' every time I say I respect soldiers people rag on me and tell me that I'm a terrible person that should die in a hole.

EDIT:

ToTaL LoLiGe:

I know the difference between patriotism and nationalism, what I meant was that people that hate the army tend to view patriotism as nationalism. I should have been clearer.

Just adding in what I was getting at when I said patriotism. So I don't get another quotation like the one below. :)

afroebob:

ToTaL LoLiGe:
patriotism is bad because it means you hate everyone that isn't from your country.

That is really really really... dumb. To say the very least. I'm a patriot, I love my country but I'm friends with a kid from Kenya who was in my class last year. I had a friend in middle school from the Dominican Republic. So I guess either I'm misinterpreting my own beliefs or opinions on people I know or your an idiot who goes on the internet and and bitches about shit just to get attention.

I don't know anything about the Irish army, but I'm the daughter of a soldier in the army who's been overseas twice already and I've dealt with a lot from people giving hate to the army. I don't really get it, at times...

I mean, there are some jibes that people do, here. Like, my ex-girlfriend's husband is in the Navy and constantly is like, "Yeah, people in the army are just bullet shields for us!" He doesn't necessarily mean it, but it's that friendly rivalry between each division, and while I understand that, there are times too when I do feel like it's a bit overdone.

Next, I also dated a girl who was a militant anarchist and her and her friends hated the military. We weren't allowed to talk politics with each other because it would come down to me getting personally offended and her going on these rants about how "the military is useless" and how they don't do anything. She would be like, "Yeah, I respect them for what they do but I don't think what they're doing is right. I don't agree with it at all. I don't like it and I think it's stupid that they even join!"

People can be ignorant sometimes, I think... they don't realize how much people in the military give up for the rest of us and how much we can have because of them.

I don't know if I actually answered the question or not... or if I just went on a giant rant... xD;;; Either way, there's my opinion on it!

I was in active duty both before and after 9/11, and I feel that a lot of people's opinions of the military are influenced by current trends, but also by a lot of misconceptions and assumptions. Especially when they don't know any military people, themselves.

Chasing-The-Light:
I don't know anything about the Irish army, but I'm the daughter of a soldier in the army who's been overseas twice already and I've dealt with a lot from people giving hate to the army. I don't really get it, at times...

I mean, there are some jibes that people do, here. Like, my ex-girlfriend's husband is in the Navy and constantly is like, "Yeah, people in the army are just bullet shields for us!" He doesn't necessarily mean it, but it's that friendly rivalry between each division, and while I understand that, there are times too when I do feel like it's a bit overdone.

Next, I also dated a girl who was a militant anarchist and her and her friends hated the military. We weren't allowed to talk politics with each other because it would come down to me getting personally offended and her going on these rants about how "the military is useless" and how they don't do anything. She would be like, "Yeah, I respect them for what they do but I don't think what they're doing is right. I don't agree with it at all. I don't like it and I think it's stupid that they even join!"

People can be ignorant sometimes, I think... they don't realize how much people in the military give up for the rest of us and how much we can have because of them.

I don't know if I actually answered the question or not... or if I just went on a giant rant... xD;;; Either way, there's my opinion on it!

no you didn't go on a rant, and thank you for saying it. I just don't understand the contempt is all.

I am not actively against any military but I do feel it is one of the more useless tax sinks. Realistically you shouldn't need a army to begin with. I do however respect the idea of people going out and helping other countries who are in need of help and I know that there is more involved in the military budget than strictly weapons which is useful also.

I have also noticed a lot of people in the military tend to act like they can kick anyone's ass and are in general better than everyone else. I am not saying all people in the army are like this just most of the people I have come across.

Chemical Alia:
I was in active duty both before and after 9/11, and I feel that a lot of people's opinions of the military are influenced by current trends, but also by a lot of misconceptions and assumptions. Especially when they don't know any military people, themselves.

I look up to people like you.

Just Saying.

chiefohara:

Chasing-The-Light:
I don't know anything about the Irish army, but I'm the daughter of a soldier in the army who's been overseas twice already and I've dealt with a lot from people giving hate to the army. I don't really get it, at times...

I mean, there are some jibes that people do, here. Like, my ex-girlfriend's husband is in the Navy and constantly is like, "Yeah, people in the army are just bullet shields for us!" He doesn't necessarily mean it, but it's that friendly rivalry between each division, and while I understand that, there are times too when I do feel like it's a bit overdone.

Next, I also dated a girl who was a militant anarchist and her and her friends hated the military. We weren't allowed to talk politics with each other because it would come down to me getting personally offended and her going on these rants about how "the military is useless" and how they don't do anything. She would be like, "Yeah, I respect them for what they do but I don't think what they're doing is right. I don't agree with it at all. I don't like it and I think it's stupid that they even join!"

People can be ignorant sometimes, I think... they don't realize how much people in the military give up for the rest of us and how much we can have because of them.

I don't know if I actually answered the question or not... or if I just went on a giant rant... xD;;; Either way, there's my opinion on it!

no you didn't go on a rant, and thank you for saying it. I just don't understand the contempt is all.

Trust me, neither do I...

I can't speak for everyone and I can't say I "hate" the army, but this is my gripe.

The DoD takes up $700 Billion in spending, which is about 20% of our total budget (both 2011 & 2012 estimate). This is unacceptable during a recession like ours, especially with the scaling back of the war in Afghanistan and our exiting out of Iraq. Not, only that, but It bothers me even more that no one seems to consider a budget reducing as a viable strategy, despite our having more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world combined or our spending money on pointless upgrades to air superiority fighters like the F-22 or our having a bunch of B-52s that a pretty useless considering they're both outdated and not strategically viable.

Also, the fact that the Military is the enforcer of some our more dickish policies.

Other than those things, I'm fine with our military. I don't view every soldier as a hero, but as a government employee with a sometime dangerous job. Still, to paraphrase Bill Maher "I like having a military that scares the shit out of other countries, I just wish that it didn't come with the whole military-industrial complex."

I don't see why the military is particularly tied to patriotism, personally. I know a couple of people who joined various military services because they wanted a job. I consider that to be rather neutral. I would imagine in countries with conscription this is also the case.

sextus the crazy:
I can't speak for everyone and I can't say I "hate" the army, but this is my gripe.

The DoD takes up $700 Billion in spending, which is about 20% of our total budget (both 2011 & 2012 estimate). This is unacceptable during a recession like ours, especially with the scaling back of the war in Afghanistan and our exiting out of Iraq. Not, only that, but It bothers me even more that no one seems to consider a budget reducing as a viable strategy, despite our having more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world combined or our spending money on pointless upgrades to air superiority fighters like the F-22 or our having a bunch of B-52s that a pretty useless considering they're both outdated and not strategically viable.

Also, the fact that the Military is the enforcer of some our more dickish policies.

Other than those things, I'm fine with our military. I don't view every soldier as a hero, but as a government employee with a sometime dangerous job. Still, to paraphrase Bill Maher "I like having a military that scares the shit out of other countries, I just wish that it didn't come with the whole military-industrial complex."

Yeah I agree.

Right now, America does not need to be spending that much money on the military. Use that money to climb out of the recession and build the economy again, THEN start making laser guns (please?)

Generally I think such idiots speak from ignorance and sterotypes.

aba1:
Realistically you shouldn't need a army to begin with.

You really believe that? LMAO.

In Japan they view the military as tax thieves, with some justification.

aba1:
Realistically you shouldn't need a army to begin with.

First of all, we need an army for self defense. Also, they're helpful for enforcing diplomatic decrees and such.

aba1:

I have also noticed a lot of people in the military tend to act like they can kick anyone's ass and are in general better than everyone else. I am not saying all people in the army are like this just most of the people I have come across.

Military seems to attract macho assholes, but not all of them are. In terms of military capabilities, we can kick any country's ass, hands down.

While I don't hate the army I don't care for it much and intensely dislike what I see as undeserved praise for it. They're useful as a deterrent to being attacked, but other than that I don't see much legitimate need for them to be going elsewhere at the moment. Libya was useful. Conflicts in the Middle East at the moment? Not so much. As such I do not think they deserve any respect for being there in a conflict we shouldn't have started. They're fixing up what they screwed up at best.

And I really do dislike when people want to give them special treatment. Like that stupid pirating 300k DVDs thing. Send them to the military? Oh it's all okay then!

I think people hate the army for a few reasons:
1) Because civilians can't distinguish between foreign policy they disagree with and the people who implement that policy. E.g: parking wardens are one of the most abused, insulted, despised professions who are treated with anger and contempt by many people when all they do is enforce parking laws set by the local government. Dislike of the army is pretty much the same thing .
And let's face it, some of the foreign policy from western nations in the recent past, eg: invading Iraq to disable it's WMD's, invading afganistan because some Saudi Arabian terrorists attacked America, is not exactly popular (but let's save that for another discussion).

2) Because people in the military can't distinguish between people the foreign policy they implement and their personal experience. Obviously if you are in the military and risking having you legs blown off by a roadside IED device, you are really going to want to believe that some good can come out of your being there, that it is a good thing to do. A civilian who disagrees with that foreign policy is almost certainly going to end up in an argument,where the military person will feel:

chiefohara:

They don't realize how much people in the military give up for the rest of us and how much we can have because of them.

Based on their personal experiences, this feeling is well justified however a civilian will not react well to this sort of martyr type arguement. E.g: I don't want soldiers to go to Iraq and get blown up. I get nothing out of that. How about you just don't go to Iraq and then you won't feel like I owe you anything, and we will all be happy.

3) People in the military have to kill people. That's not awesome. A lot people who are pacifists just simply cannot comprehend why anyone would want to do this. Either you are extremely professional and are able to view it as a job and when the shooting kicks off, your training comes in and you do what you need to do to protect your mates, or you are a psycho who likes shooting people. I guess the military is going to attract a lot of these type of people. I mean if you want to shoot people, there are limited occupational choices for you.

Some of the contempt is no doubt misplaced frustration. As A U.S. Citizen I disagree whole heartedly with a some of the decisions my government has made in regard to recent military actions. And some folks tend to confuse the soldier who carries out his/her orders with the politician who drafted the orders to begin with.

From a personal standpoint I can offer the following.

I come from a military family. My Grandfather was a soldier in WWII, my Uncle was an Airforce Engineer, my Father had planned on joining the Army but due to catching polio in his youth was unfit for service and instead became a Psychologist to work with Military veterans.

My best friend had parents who were both Marines, one of whom was a career officer.
(Edit: Both parents still alive, just retired now.)

In my lifetime I have been fortunate to have the chance to speak with some truly honorable and amazing soldiers who have been tasked with doing and seeing things I couldn't begin to comprehend. Who speak of their tours of duty with a reserved tone and a somber reverence for the men they served with.
Never with a hint of regret but always with respect to their roles as Military men and women.

In more recent years I have also had the chance to speak with some of the absolute worst examples of human excrement that has ever poured itself into a uniform. Truly racist, bigoted, pig ignorant, "git'r dun" corn fed assholes who are attracted to a military or law enforcement career because it guarantees them a level of respect and authority they would be incapable of commanding through their own faculties.

But what do you expect when your recruitment technique makes the downgrade from "Be all that you can be" to Kid Rock bellowing out some god awful "America Fuck Yeah! Freedom Ain't Free!" jingoistic hogwash.

It is unfortunate that the latter group has forced me to take a stance of cautious distrust of the armed forces as a whole.
And I know that isn't fair. It kills me that I can't assume the best of every soldier that I meet.
But that's the world I live in.

aba1:
I am not actively against any military but I do feel it is one of the more useless tax sinks. Realistically you shouldn't need a army to begin with.

The military is the sole reason anyone actually listens to each other when it comes to global politics. Nobody WANTS to respect things like borders and resource rights and diplomacy and stuff like that, but they have to because the other side has guns.

sextus the crazy:

aba1:
Realistically you shouldn't need a army to begin with.

First of all, we need an army for self defense.

But that is just it you shouldn't need a big defense because you shouldn't be out making a ass of yourself coercing others into wanting to attack you to begin with. There is also a difference between defensive military and offensive military as well. If your military is really meant for defense it should be almost solely homeland security.

I mean I get having some security and defense but there is a point in which it is just dragging down the country and holding you back from achieve economic success in a stable environment.

sextus the crazy:

aba1:

I have also noticed a lot of people in the military tend to act like they can kick anyone's ass and are in general better than everyone else. I am not saying all people in the army are like this just most of the people I have come across.

Military seems to attract macho assholes, but not all of them are. In terms of military capabilities, we can kick any country's ass, hands down.

Didn't say all just most I as a individual have met. Also that is the exact attitude I was talking about regardless of whether you can or can't kick peoples ass's doesn't mean you should go throwing it around as if to be challenging others right left and center, show some complaisance besides it is peoples lives you are talking about not some game.

Diddy_Mao:
Some of the contempt is no doubt misplaced frustration. As A U.S. Citizen I disagree whole heartedly with a some of the decisions my government has made in regard to recent military actions. And some folks tend to confuse the soldier who carries out his/her orders with the politician who drafted the orders to begin with.

At least from my perspective, they're enabling said politicians. Further, they sign up to follow orders. If I give up my autonomy to someone else, why should I be considered free of blame for what they tell me to do when it was my decision to let them give me orders in the first place?

ToTaL LoLiGe:
It seems if you respect the army you're a patriot, and patriotism is bad because it means you hate everyone that isn't from your country. I've had a few 'debates' with escapist members about 'patriotism' every time I say I respect soldiers people rag on me and tell me that I'm a terrible person that should die in a hole.

I think that's called Nationalism, not patriotism. Patriotism is when you love your country, Nationalism is when you think your country is the greatest in the world.

Anyways, I have a great respect for the armed forces. They're doing something I don't think I'd ever be able to do. They fight the good fight and the freedom every nation holds so dear is held on the backs of soldiers.

Wolverine18:
Generally I think such idiots speak from ignorance and sterotypes.

aba1:
Realistically you shouldn't need a army to begin with.

You really believe that? LMAO.

Sure I mean what is your country doing that makes people hate you so much they actively want to kill you?

I mean sure I can see defense but a huge army set in place for invasion is hardly defensive.

aba1:

sextus the crazy:

aba1:
Realistically you shouldn't need a army to begin with.

First of all, we need an army for self defense.

But that is just it you shouldn't need a big defense because you shouldn't be out making a ass of yourself coercing others into wanting to attack you to begin with. There is also a difference between defensive military and offensive military as well. If your military is really meant for defense it should be almost solely homeland security.

I mean I get having some security and defense but there is a point in which it is just dragging down the country and holding you back from achieve economic success in a stable environment.

If you read my first post on this thread, you'll see I agree with you on this point.
Having a giant bloated army is something I'd like us to get rid of in the future, through budget reforms and the like. Having a shit-ton of bombers and air superiority fighters isn't exactly useful even in the type of wars we're fighting.

Your statement was just misleading, as it implied that the military had no function whatsoever.

aba1:

sextus the crazy:

aba1:

I have also noticed a lot of people in the military tend to act like they can kick anyone's ass and are in general better than everyone else. I am not saying all people in the army are like this just most of the people I have come across.

Military seems to attract macho assholes, but not all of them are. In terms of military capabilities, we can kick any country's ass, hands down.

Didn't say all just most I as a individual have met. Also that is the exact attitude I was talking about regardless of whether you can or can't kick peoples ass's doesn't mean you should go throwing it around as if to be challenging others right left and center, show some complaisance besides it is peoples lives you are talking about not some game.

I never said that I was challenging other countries to a fight; that would be both expensive and really counter productive. I was pointing out that in terms of military capabilities, those soldiers are correct; they're just being assholes, is all.

I don't agree with the idea of being conditioned to obey without question. I think it teaches diminished responsibility.

I hate the military.

Listen here. Your government doesn't like you. In fact, chances are your government is comprised of a bunch of fucking assholes. When you join the military, you are agreeing to take orders from a bunch of assholes. You are expressing willingness to go to another country and kill people on behalf of this group of assholes, simply because you were told to. I don't find that admirable. I find it extremely disturbing that many people believe those in military positions deserve extra respect by virtue of having a diminished capacity to empathise and think for themselves.

Yes, they risk their lives, but then so do people who drive while they're drunk. You don't call them heroes, even though they achieve about as much as anyone in the army- killing some civilians.

aba1:

Wolverine18:
Generally I think such idiots speak from ignorance and sterotypes.

aba1:
Realistically you shouldn't need a army to begin with.

You really believe that? LMAO.

Sure I mean what is your country doing that makes people hate you so much they actively want to kill you?

I mean sure I can see defense but a huge army set in place for invasion is hardly defensive.

It is a sad fact of human nature that there will always be completely incompatable policies. the most obvious example of this is the middle east in that some, by no mean all but certaintly enough of those involved in the decsion making process see the western way of life as diametrically opposed to theirs. Simple things that we see as right or moral they see as abhorrent and vice versa and so there will always be the potential for conflict and the need for a deterrant against it.

The need to have a force that can interveane in foriegn nations comes from a couple of nessesities. First, in the event of conflict, it is always better for the fighting to occur on someone elses soil in order to spare your own civilians the horrors of war, second, the goal to defend as far forward as possible, giving yourself more room to fall back and manouvere and your enemy less. Third, part of what prevents smaller wars is the knowledge that just about everybody has a lot of treaty obligations backing them up, and to enforce treaty obligations you need to able to operate in other countries. Fourth, wars cannot be won by defence, you can use defencive tactics to regain the initiative and go on the offensive, but in the end, you cannot end a war without either removing the enemies will to fight or their ability to do so, trying to simply set up a defence and let the enemy attack either leads to the folly of fixed defences or mass casualties on your part because by focusing solely on the defence youare allowing the enemy freedom of action. Fifth, one of the functions of the modern military is intervention in foreign states, eg Bosnia, Timor or various peackeeping operations in the mid east and africa. Sixth and finally (for now, there are some others but this post is getting long and I think you get my point) a deterrant only works if it a real threat and so you cannot prevent war by simply being a tough nut to crack, you need to ability to fight back as well, I mean, what is more likely to be killed by another animal, the turtle or the wolf?

manic_depressive13:
I hate the military.

Listen here. Your government doesn't like you. In fact, chances are your government is comprised of a bunch of fucking assholes. When you join the military, you are agreeing to take orders from a bunch of assholes. You are expressing willingness to go to another country and kill people on behalf of this group of assholes, simply because you were told to. I don't find that admirable. I find it extremely disturbing that many people believe those in military positions deserve extra respect by virtue of having a diminished capacity to empathise and think for themselves.

Yes, they risk their lives, but then so do people who drive while they're drunk. You don't call them heroes, even though they achieve about as much as anyone in the army- killing some civilians.

Because all soldiers do is kill civilians, right?

People like this person here, really should know what the fuck they're talking about before they start talking.

OT: I admire anyone who puts their lives in danger on a day to do basis (Soldiers, Cops, etc). I'm currently in the process of joining the Army. A lot of the hate has to do with people being entirely misinformed, or people who think their own ignorant view is the only view on the matter.

manic_depressive13:

Listen here. Your government doesn't like you. In fact, chances are your government is comprised of a bunch of fucking assholes. When you join the military, you are agreeing to take orders from a bunch of assholes. You are expressing willingness to go to another country and kill people on behalf of this group of assholes, simply because you were told to. I don't find that admirable. I find it extremely disturbing that many people believe those in military positions deserve extra respect by virtue of having a diminished capacity to empathise and think for themselves.

I really don't get why people miss that part. They willing gave up their autonomy to run off to do the bidding of the government. And people somehow try to separate the government from them. Well they agreed to follow their orders, so how can they really not accept blame as well? If I tell some crazy guy on the street "Oh I'll do whatever you want" people wouldn't think twice about blaming me as much as him, if not more, if I followed his orders.

imahobbit4062:
Because all soldiers do is kill civilians, right?

People like this person here, really should know what the fuck they're talking about before they start talking.

OT: I admire anyone who puts their lives in danger on a day to do basis (Soldiers, Cops, etc). I'm currently in the process of joining the Army. A lot of the hate has to do with people being entirely misinformed, or people who think their own ignorant view is the only view on the matter.

Tell me what our soldiers have achieved in the middle east besides kill civilians.

I respect soldiers greatly, since they put their lives on the line doing their job. I don't have to agree with where they are sent or what they do to respect something like that.

Taking my personal encounters with the army out of it the only thing that annoys me about my country's army is that they are compensated. This in itself is fine, but then you have these same babies crying about the horrors they've seen and how they didn't sign up to be government slaves, all while expecting a hero's welcome while their tuition gets paid and their wallets get fatter.

There is no draft on. You signed up for a job and you did so of your own volition. No complaining about it now.

As for the soldiers who do their job, take their money and keep their mouths shut: more power to them.

People hate authority figures yet they still expect to be protected by them. It's really just hate for the sake of hating. I can see disliking them for their actions but to judge everyone in that profession is just being a bigot.

Because peace and love man. If we all could just like, get along, we wouldn't need an army dude.

I'll respect the people who are willing to risk their lives to protect their country, and hate politicians for the wars.

Chemical Alia:
I was in active duty both before and after 9/11, and I feel that a lot of people's opinions of the military are influenced by current trends, but also by a lot of misconceptions and assumptions. Especially when they don't know any military people, themselves.

I think this guy is onto something.

Personally I am against war when it can be avoided. Let's take either of the two world wars as an example here. One nation wanting to increase their financial standing expanded their territory and their wealth on the cost of nations they were able to defeat. This situation was not misinterpreted nor do I think it could have been solved without going to war. Then there's the war in Iraq which probably was necessary too, but the reasons for going to war were sketchy at best. There's also news about all the sick things some soldiers do in order to maintain the mindset they need to keep fighting. I probably shouldn't mention specifics in order to keep this civil. However to get on with my point this is what people see. They see the group of soldiers mistreating captives. They see a war they didn't want.

Soldiers don't go to war. Soldiers are sent to war. People seem to think that if we didn't have soldiers we wouldn't have wars. I am a strong opponent of war and I am a pacifist, but I still respect soldiers for the duty they are doing.

 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 NEXT

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked