A New Jersey appeals court says a man accused of talking about shooting President Obama can get his gun collection back.
John Brek was working at Newark Liberty International Airport in 2009 when he was overheard talking about how easy it would be to shoot the president, who was scheduled to arrive the next day.
Brek was charged with making terroristic threats but pleaded guilty to harassment and served 30 days in jail.
However, a judge denied him the return of more than 70 weapons that had been seized from his house during the investigation.
In a ruling published Tuesday, the three-judge appeals panel ordered the state to return the guns. It cited reports by two mental health professionals that found Brek was not a threat.
I personally believe in gun control but in this case, under the current US laws, I don't think he should be denied his guns. I don't know about anyone-else but I've had a number of conversations and jokes with friends about how one could commit a terrorist attack and never because any of us actually intend to become terrorists, just because it's an interesting topic to speculate on.
Why would you need so many guns? That's just kind of batshit mental. I wouldn't even have one in my house.
Where would you put seventy guns? `Pop that in the murder closet, would you dear?`
Because apparently only Daystar could tell I was kidding- IT'S A JOKE PEOPLE. I dont care how many guns you have. You can have guns up your arse for all I care. Stop quoting me!
Phasmal: Why would you need so many guns? That's just kind of batshit mental. I wouldn't even have one in my house.
Where would you put seventy guns? `Pop that in the murder closet, would you dear?`
Several murder closets, with a steady incremental progression from 'No nonsense' all the way up to 'I need to commit a war crime and break several codes of the Geneva Convention'.
Phasmal: Why would you need so many guns? That's just kind of batshit mental. I wouldn't even have one in my house.
Where would you put seventy guns? `Pop that in the murder closet, would you dear?`
Some people collect stamps, coins, automobiles, guns, etc.
Doesnt necessarily means theyre all in working order or operational. I know many people who collect guns from major wars that have been decommissioned but allowed to own. As for where to put them...how about a gun safe. People who have collections generally keep them locked up for protection.
murder closet...really? its bullshit and ignorant statements like that which give gun ownership bad press. a knife is a deadly weapon, but im sure your kitchen is stocked with an ample supply and you dont go calling it the murder drawer...
im glad you dont have a gun. immature people are dangerous with gun responsibility.
What I don't get is why some people insist on saying "POTUS" when "President" or the person's name will usually suffice, and seems much less like the name of some dangerous experimental drug.
Lilani: What I don't get is why some people insist on saying "POTUS" when "President" or the person's name will usually suffice, and seems much less like the name of some dangerous experimental drug.
Meh, it's an international audience so President of the United States is clearer. I could have said Obama, but I didn't. I don't think it's terribly taxing to glean the meaning.
Lilani: What I don't get is why some people insist on saying "POTUS" when "President" or the person's name will usually suffice, and seems much less like the name of some dangerous experimental drug.
Meh, it's an international audience so President of the United States is clearer. I could have said Obama, but I didn't. I don't think it's terribly taxing to glean the meaning.
Yeah, I understand. It's just one of those acronyms I hate. That, and GOTY. Seriously, that doesn't sound like "Game of the Year." That sounds like some weird goat fetish.
Wushu Panda: a knife is a deadly weapon, but im sure your kitchen is stocked with an ample supply and you dont go calling it the murder drawer...
"its bullshit and ignorant statements like that which give gun ownership bad press."
A knifes purpose is not to harm or to murder. It is to cut fruit. A gun is a tool designed to harm and kill things. It is a device that if used for its intended purpose, its ONLY practical purpose, will kill things. It is not comparable to a multi functional knife.
I think guns should be allowed. But cmon the comparison of a usefull house hold tool like a knife and a thing designed to kill people is similar to me saying "You have a pencil, why cant i have genetically altered super anthrax in my house?"
They were worried about his comments so they took his guns away. That is fucked up. From what the article said his comments don't sound that far out there (the Secret Service really isn't that good). What's more they seem to have taken his guns without the promise of repaying him for the cost. Guns are expensive and if they took my collection away, even though it is not nearly as large as his, it would cost me several thousand dollars.
Phasmal: Why would you need so many guns? That's just kind of batshit mental.
Different guns have different purposes. Some firearms are illegal to use for different purposes or just violate some rules. The gun I use to kill tree rats is illegal to use against deer and the gun I use against deer is not suited for shooting tree rats. The gun I use for 1,000 yard competitions is too expensive to risk taking out into the bush. The gun I use for 3-gun competitions is too big for concealed carry. And on.
BiscuitTrouser: A knifes purpose is not to harm or to murder. It is to cut fruit.
You are aware that there are some knives designed specifically to kill people right?
A gun is a tool designed to harm and kill things. It is a device that if used for its intended purpose, its ONLY practical purpose, will kill things. It is not comparable to a multi functional knife.
Sorry but I am a certified gunsmith and my guns are designed for target shooting and no more.
BTW I am not endorsing the statement of the guy you quoted and I do I not mean to take this off topic.
You are aware that there are some knives designed specifically to kill people right?
Sorry but I am a certified gunsmith and my guns are designed for target shooting and no more.
BTW I am not endorsing the statement of the guy you quoted and I do I not mean to take this off topic.
Yeah i know there are knives made for that purpose. He commented that the kitchen could be called the murder closet. I told him my kitchen is full of knives for cutting fruit. There are knives that are made for killing. Youd be weird for keeping on in your house though. I love target shooting and i keep my gun down at the range under lock and key. Its a good system. Ill give you that though, im talking about house guns for self defence. Its still a killing tool. Treating a gun as anything else is dangerous, its a deadly weapon and it demands respect.
Yeah i know there are knives made for that purpose. He commented that the kitchen could be called the murder closet. I told him my kitchen is full of knives for cutting fruit. There are knives that are made for killing. Youd be weird for keeping on in your house though. I love target shooting and i keep my gun down at the range under lock and key. Its a good system. Ill give you that though, im talking about house guns for self defence. Its still a killing tool. Treating a gun as anything else is dangerous, its a deadly weapon and it demands respect.
Have you not heard? Guns are actually an effective method of painting fences and writing poetry.
This harkens back to the original patent, GUN is actually an an acronym for "General Utensil for Nuns", therefore owning many makes you a better person..because nuns.
BiscuitTrouser: There are knives that are made for killing. Youd be weird for keeping on in your house though.
My Ka-bar was designed for killing (hence the fighting part of its name) but it also makes a fantastic camping knife (hence the utility part of its name).
Ill give you that though, im talking about house guns for self defence. Its still a killing tool. Treating a gun as anything else is dangerous, its a deadly weapon and it demands respect.
No, it is just a tool. Its use is determined by its user. If I do not decide to use my guns for killing then it is not a killing tool, it is just a tool.
Look, one of my friends is a competitive bow shooter. Her bows can sure as hell be considered deadly (especially after you see what one of those things can do to a steel plate) but no one would I know (even the most vehement anti-gunners) would that bow a "killing tool". Why are guns so different?
While I think the guy has way too many guns, I don't think he really did anything wrong other then being an Unpatriotic jerk. Sure, threatening the President is a negative thing, but unless he actually acted on it, it doesn't mean you can take away his stuff. Just let him have his guns back. If he actually acts on it, take everything from him, including his life.
BiscuitTrouser: There are knives that are made for killing. Youd be weird for keeping on in your house though.
My Ka-bar was designed for killing (hence the fighting part of its name) but it also makes a fantastic camping knife (hence the utility part of its name).
Ill give you that though, im talking about house guns for self defence. Its still a killing tool. Treating a gun as anything else is dangerous, its a deadly weapon and it demands respect.
No, it is just a tool. Its use is determined by its user. If I do not decide to use my guns for killing then it is not a killing tool, it is just a tool.
Look, one of my friends is a competitive bow shooter. Her bows can sure as hell be considered deadly (especially after you see what one of those things can do to a steel plate) but no one would I know (even the most vehement anti-gunners) would that bow a "killing tool". Why are guns so different?
I think the anti-thesis to your argument is pretty obvious, but I guess I'll bother typing it out. No, guns do not need to be used for killing people. But that's what they were made for. They weren't made for shooting targets. I can't buy a drill, proceed to use it as a hammer, then claim it was made for hammering. Sure, that's what you are using it for, but it was not designed to do whatever else you're using it for. Guns ARE killing tools. There is no other real life application for them (I don't count target shooting because that's not being used as a tool as much as a toy, you know what I mean? You aren't doing anything productive. Don't take that the wrong way, I like shooting targets) than (than? then? not sure if I used the right one) using them to kill stuff.
Oh shush your mush I was joking. I'm fine with guns, no need to get your panties in a twist. People take things far too seriously.
I don't blame him for being defensive. This site, along with plenty others, is(/are) filled with people that really do think that owning guns should be illegal and that owning a gun collection is surely a sign of being crazy/sociopathic.
On topic, as the first response said, tons of people joke all of the time about how easy it would be to bomb a building or shoot someone, especially because it WOULD be insanely easy to assassinate the POTUS or kill far more people than the majority of mass-killers for anyone with an ounce of intelligence and nothing to lose.
I'm glad(?) that the court is allowing this man to keep his collection, since it sounds like it could be pretty impressive.
Phasmal: Why would you need so many guns? That's just kind of batshit mental. I wouldn't even have one in my house.
Where would you put seventy guns? `Pop that in the murder closet, would you dear?`
One of my professors has a neighbor who bought a bank vault to house all his guns. He has so many guns that he forgets about some of the guns he owns. In fact, he has a number of guns that he bought 30 years ago and never even took them out of their boxes just because he forgot about them at the time (he just found them again when he was cleaning out his vault a few weeks back).
Westaway: No, guns do not need to be used for killing people. But that's what they were made for.
I said this earlier but I will say it again, I am a certified gunsmith. I build guns personally. How can you tell me that the guns that I build are made for killing people when I did not make them to kill people?
They weren't made for shooting targets.
What about all the guns names "Super Target Shooter"?
There is no other real life application for them (I don't count target shooting because that's not being used as a tool as much as a toy, you know what I mean? You aren't doing anything productive. Don't take that the wrong way, I like shooting targets) than (than? then? not sure if I used the right one) using them to kill stuff.
Actually there are many alternative uses for firearms. We human beings are defined by our use of tools. Do you honestly think that no one has ever tried to use a gun for an alternative purpose?
Ever heard of a nail gun? How about a flare gun? Stun gun? Have you ever heard of using guns for mining (fell out of favor with the invention of the jackhammer)? How clearing brush? Cutting down a tree (that one is not very popular). All kinds of non-lethal ammo are currently in use and development. There were some rigged guns that were built to knock apples off of trees without getting a latter. Knocking down buildings. Digging holes. And of course allowing fathers to send a very clear message to young boys (I still remember my first time, got to love the south)-
Spoiler: Click to 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
Lilani: What I don't get is why some people insist on saying "POTUS" when "President" or the person's name will usually suffice, and seems much less like the name of some dangerous experimental drug.
Meh, it's an international audience so President of the United States is clearer. I could have said Obama, but I didn't. I don't think it's terribly taxing to glean the meaning.
Yeah, I understand. It's just one of those acronyms I hate. That, and GOTY. Seriously, that doesn't sound like "Game of the Year." That sounds like some weird goat fetish.
I'm never going to be able to look at my copy of Oblivion the same way again, so thanks for that!
OT: I think this is kind of missing the point. Why on earth was the guy prosecuted for what he said? Being interviewed by the Secret Service I could understand, but why was he prosecuted once it was established that he clearly wasn't a communist assassin or whatever? I mean come on, if there was actually a conspiracy to try and shoot Obama, d'you really think they'd choose the guy who had 70 firearms to do it in some kind of horrific Rube Goldberg-ish chain reaction? And by Rube Goldberg, I mean something like this:
Ahem... Anyhow, I'd be all for greater gun control in general, but in this particular case there's no reason not to return them, and he shouldn't have been convicted of an offence anyway.
It sounds like this rather widely derided incident in the UK. Now that I think about it, it also bears some semblance to this case, which provoked much outrage among the US members of this forum on the grounds that Hate Speech laws excessively curtailed Mr Liam Stacey's freedom of speech. Surely this prosecution is just as severe a curtailment?
Westaway: No, guns do not need to be used for killing people. But that's what they were made for.
I said this earlier but I will say it again, I am a certified gunsmith. I build guns personally. How can you tell me that the guns that I build are made for killing people when I did not make them to kill people?
They weren't made for shooting targets.
What about all the guns names "Super Target Shooter"?
There is no other real life application for them (I don't count target shooting because that's not being used as a tool as much as a toy, you know what I mean? You aren't doing anything productive. Don't take that the wrong way, I like shooting targets) than (than? then? not sure if I used the right one) using them to kill stuff.
Actually there are many alternative uses for firearms. We human beings are defined by our use of tools. Do you honestly think that no one has ever tried to use a gun for an alternative purpose?
Ever heard of a nail gun? How about a flare gun? Stun gun? Have you ever heard of using guns for mining (fell out of favor with the invention of the jackhammer)? How clearing brush? Cutting down a tree (that one is not very popular). All kinds of non-lethal ammo are currently in use and development. There were some rigged guns that were built to knock apples off of trees without getting a latter. Knocking down buildings. Digging holes. And of course allowing fathers to send a very clear message to young boys (I still remember my first time, got to love the south)-
Spoiler: Click to 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
Look, I'm clearly out classed in terms of knowledge about guns. You make valid points, however you are taking my point slightly out of context. I am talking purely about guns that are designed for self defense or hunting. I am not counting guns that have been modified or created specifically for another purpose- was I wrote that paragraph, I had a shotgun in my head, or an assault rifle. As for your comment on how you didn't make the gun to kill people, I'm not sure how to respond. I'm not sure if you're referring again to guns that have been made for something else (target shooting or other) or actual self defense guns. If you are referring to things such as pistols, I'm not sure how you can say that. I wouldn't like to know the gun I made killed someone, but it happens. I'm sure there are countless inventions that were turned into war machines, much to the dismay of their creator.
1. He can still only hold 2 at a time, so the fact that he has 70 is a little unsettling, but it doesn't actually make him 70 times more dangerous then the average gun owner. Probably.
2. Despite what he may think, it's NOT easy to shoot the President. Especially if you happen to be a massive idiot. Like say, the kind of massive idiot who thinks it would be easy to shoot the president.
Yeah, I think we're gonna be OK.
I'm much more concerned about the fact that he was able to own 70 guns legally. Why in the flying fuck would he need that many guns? Is he expecting SWAT teams to pay him a vi-Oh, I see.
Westaway: As for your comment on how you didn't make the gun to kill people, I'm not sure how to respond. I'm not sure if you're referring again to guns that have been made for something else (target shooting or other) or actual self defense guns. If you are referring to things such as pistols, I'm not sure how you can say that. I wouldn't like to know the gun I made killed someone, but it happens. I'm sure there are countless inventions that were turned into war machines, much to the dismay of their creator.
Look, a hammer can be used to kill people but that is not its intended purpose. This gun (below) is a Walther SSP and it is designed specifically for target shooting. In fact the entire pistol was designed because rule changes to the ISSF made their old model obsolete. No one in their right minds would use this gun for ANYTHING but target shooting-
Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly93d3cuZ3Vuc2xvdC5jb20vZmlsZXMvZ3Vuc2xvdC9pbWFnZXMvNjE1MzMuanBnIiBhbHQ9ImltYWdlIi8+PC9wPg==
You said that guns are made for killing people and yes SOME guns are made for killing people but in the past there were hammers made for killing people. There are many different kinds of firearms and all of them have their own specific purposes.
Quick question: Did they also return the ammunition?
JoJo: I personally believe in gun control but in this case, under the current US laws, I don't think he should be denied his guns. I don't know about anyone-else but I've had a number of conversations and jokes with friends about how one could commit a terrorist attack and never because any of us actually intend to become terrorists, just because it's an interesting topic to speculate on.
Yeah but if any of my friends had an arsenal like that, I'd be a little more inclined to take it seriously.
Mr.Mattress: While I think the guy has way too many guns, I don't think he really did anything wrong other then being an Unpatriotic jerk. Sure, threatening the President is a negative thing, but unless he actually acted on it, it doesn't mean you can take away his stuff. Just let him have his guns back. If he actually acts on it, take everything from him, including his life.
It never said he would/wanted to, he'd said it would be easy to. That's kind of like how some people, after playing RTS games, will come across a hill or a mountain or such and go "You know, that'd make a great defensive encampment." He was thinking that the President just might have a hole in his security, which could possibly be used by the SS to strengthen their defense.
It's just people are paranoid as fuck nowadays, so the people that called him in probably thought he really was going to shoot the pres.
BiscuitTrouser: There are knives that are made for killing. Youd be weird for keeping on in your house though.
My Ka-bar was designed for killing (hence the fighting part of its name) but it also makes a fantastic camping knife (hence the utility part of its name).
Ill give you that though, im talking about house guns for self defence. Its still a killing tool. Treating a gun as anything else is dangerous, its a deadly weapon and it demands respect.
No, it is just a tool. Its use is determined by its user. If I do not decide to use my guns for killing then it is not a killing tool, it is just a tool.
Look, one of my friends is a competitive bow shooter. Her bows can sure as hell be considered deadly (especially after you see what one of those things can do to a steel plate) but no one would I know (even the most vehement anti-gunners) would that bow a "killing tool". Why are guns so different?
Because a gun and a bow were not designed for utility. They were designed as weapons. They are weapons. It is their function. Their one function. To actively be used as or practiced as weapons. Ive been an archer and a marksman and i personally LOVE shooting bows or guns. Ive never enjoyed a hobby more. But i think youre disrespecting a dangerous tool if you dont act as if what youre holding in your hand is a weapon. Id never treat my gun as anything else other than a weapon. Or my bow. They are dangerous. I could very easily take lives with them if i was careless and inconsiderate to their abilities. They are fantastic weapons with that said. Awesome to practice with. But not the same at all as a tool of utility. They are both tools. But the purpose of said tools is massively different.
You have exceptions to this rule but dont bring them up. We arnt discussing guns not made to be real working guns that fire actual lead bullets.
One demands you treat it carefully because its made to be dangerous. It was designed with the purpose of doing something dangerous. To destroy something effictively. Be it a target or a person.
Im FOR owning guns. I just think the attitude of "This is no more dangerous than a household applience" is fucking stupid. No one with that inability to understand the responsibility of owning a weapon (see: killing tool) should own one. It isnt the same as popping down to the shop and buying a regular household knife. Or a tissue box. Or a tooth pick. Its got more weight to it than that.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/nj-man-accused-obama-threat-guns-back-16404945#.T7vCcL8Zz-k
Some people need guns to protect themselves.
Some people need guns to protect their homes.
Some people need guns to protect their guns.