Ain't no homo gonna make it to heaven

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Gorumgol:

Lonely Packager:
the people in that video

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

What, I don't get it.

Therumancer:
the pro-gay movement isn't winning, and never really has been

So...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/01/defense-marriage-act-appears-to-be-headed-to-supreme-court-after-appeals-court/

The gays are just lying when they force Fox News to take a break from its "fair and balanced" reporting to mention that an appeals court has ruled DOMA Unconstitutional?

Buretsu:

Res Plus:

Hey, indeed, that is nicely put. I will be stealing that and passing it off as my own in future. ; )

Religion is the belief that there is a God, despite the lack of evidence. Atheism is the belief that there is not a God, because of the lack of evidence. In that sense, they're both belief systems.

Nah, sorry, don't agree at all. The way you have put it is the way many religious group try to frame it to make the two viewpoints equivalent, they are not.

It always amazes me how religion retrenches with each body blow. The world is flat, oh some Italian chap has proved it round, oh right, well that was a metaphor.

The world is 5000 years old, oh some English Victorian geologist has proved it's over 4 billion years old, oh right, well that was a metaphor.

Religion is the ignoring of all practical envidence, no matter how much it piles up. Atheism is the weighing up of evidence and coming to the only logical conclusion based on that evidence.

Religion is pure "belief", atheism is based on scientific enquiry.

Zachary Amaranth:

Therumancer:
the pro-gay movement isn't winning, and never really has been

So...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/01/defense-marriage-act-appears-to-be-headed-to-supreme-court-after-appeals-court/

The gays are just lying when they force Fox News to take a break from its "fair and balanced" reporting to mention that an appeals court has ruled DOMA Unconstitutional?

The thing your not getting is that when it comes to situations like this the law doesn't paticularly matter. You can't force people to accept or tolerate homosexuals, or any group for that matter, through legal legislation. What's more interperations on what's constitutional and not vary greatly, for example the founding fathers would disagree with this ruling and point to their own laws and policies as examples of exceptions that the constitutions did not apply to, with anti-gay laws being on the books.

All the current trends are really likely to do is ensure that backlash, when it happens, is going to be increasingly violent and outside of the system. You might not see that, or agree with it, but this isn't the kind of situation where it's going to piddle away like a lot of other civil liberties cases, largely because it actually is differant from them (again read what the other side has to say, you won't agree with it, but they are right about a number of things in this case, albiet all things the pro-gay side claims to have debunked or aren't true with equal ferver to the anti-gay side's nonsense which fuels the conflict and presents any kind of middle ground resolution).

Over all, I think you'll see that time will tell, and you'll see very little in the way of lasting change due to such policies. What's more as the content of the goverment changes you'll probably see rulings changed, modified, or undermined through precedent and new rulings, including those of The Supreme Court.

That said, I'm done argueing the point since I'm not really trying to make an anti-gay arguement, just pointing out the reasons for backlash, and the polarization that exists. Both sides tout various things as victories, court/supreme court rulings are good ones, but at the same time if you ever bother to listen to the other side you'll notice they claim their fair share of victories on their own. The conflict continues and the lines are still drawn 50-50 with a few percentage points either way at any given time, as much as you might try and convince yourself otherwise, the only way to claim victory is to actually erode those numbers, and substantially.

Lonely Packager:

Gorumgol:

Lonely Packager:
the people in that video

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

What, I don't get it.

Those things in the video are not people.

Gorumgol:

Lonely Packager:

Gorumgol:

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

What, I don't get it.

Those things in the video are not people.

Oh, I see. My mistake for making terrible assumptions.

Buretsu:

Mortai Gravesend:

Buretsu:

Can you honestly say you've never believed in anything without direct proof of it? So you think we're alone in the universe, because there's no proof of intelligent life on other planets?

Oh now, where's this new standard coming from? Direct proof? I said proof, I never specified how direct it was.

Now you're just splitting hairs here.

Not at all. You're just covering for a dishonest switch you made.

And why would I think we're alone? It is possible for life to be generated in the universe, we know that for sure. Given the extend of the universe it's quite possible that it could have been generated elsewhere as well. There's at least *something* to suggest a possibility worth considering. Unlike for a deity.

So you accept the possibility of life in the universe, but you can't accept the possibility that there's life in the universe so advanced, that it evolved to a level of ability such that we humans would consider it to be a God?

"So you reject the idea that there's something that evolved to defy all known laws of physics?!"
^ That's what I'm reading. Anyway, that isn't what I said. Again. I said there's nothing to suggest such a possibility to be worth considering.

But it's totally okay to think less of someone for believing in God, because you're obviously right, and their obviously wrong, am I right?

Hmm. Is integrity something you despise? You seem to not have the hang of it.

And you lack objectivity.

You've failed to prove that. You haven't even given it a serious shot, you're throwing out empty rhetoric there. Reminds me a bit of what Theuramancer was doing. But anyway, we have evidence of you trying to suggest that I said things that I didn't. So not very comparable.

One is making a claim without evidence. One is refuting a claim without evidence. I hold that both are equally wrong.

You hold on what grounds? One is merely discarding a claim that has no merit to it. Nothing special about that.

Again, the claim is being discarded on a perceived lack of merit, versus the other being accepted despite a similarly perceived lack of merit.

Perceived lack of merit? It's there in the lack of evidence. If the claim God exists has no evidence it has no merit. The default is disbelief. A default of belief would be automatically contradictory.

So you're saying that people who believe in God don't think. Or maybe you think they think wrong, because you think you think right? Do try to be less insulting in the future though.

Oooh your lack of integrity is showing again. I didn't say that they couldn't think. I said that since we can think your cop out sucks. Since we humans can think we can evaluate whether something is reasonable or not.

Yes, and we could therefore evaluate that the existence of God is reasonable. Yet the opposing view is rejected simply on a basis of disagrement.

Dishonesty from you yet again. Where was it rejected just because of disagreement? You sound like those obnoxious homophobes that run around screaming that we don't like them *just* because we have different opinions. Like them, you're giving a blatant lie. I evaluated whether it is reasonable. No evidence for it? Unreasonable to believe the being exists then.

With a complete lack of proof one way or the other, all things ARE equal if you think in terms of logic, not in terms of 'I'm right about everything'.

Bullshit. You're just throwing the word logic around instead of actually using any.

And you're just closing your mind to any sort of possibility that doesn't fit in with your narrow opinion of the universe.

Again, you're simply lying. You can't make a good counterargument so you lie. I'm simply calling you on throwing the word 'logic' around without providing a refutation. You're just tossing BS out because you have nothing of substance.

Persecution complex, nothing. I can't say that I fully believe in God. But then I'm reasonable and honest enough to admit that I can't refute God either, which is more than most people can say on the matter.

I'll applaud you the same way I applaud people who are unsure on the matter of whether we're all puppets to a lazy alien child of a highly advanced race.

I applaud you the same way I applaud racists and homophobes, and other close-minded individuals.

I'm not closed minded for evaluating a belief and discarding it. But you sound kind of like those closed minded individuals who like to try and get people to believe their discredited ideas with some false equivalency.

And, in the theoretical future, if God is proven to exist, who will 'fucking care' that people once thought he didn't? You mention insufficient, poorly gathered evidence, but we're talking about a refusal to believe in God with absolutely no evidence.

You don't seem to be thinking this through very well at all. I have a feeling you're not trying, you're merely jumping to your favored conclusion. No, see, the people with poorly gathered evidence are the believers.

The people who believe that God doesn't exist are believers, in the same way that people who believe that God does exist are.

Empty rhetoric. One side disbelieves the nonsense that was suggested, the other suggests it. They aren't equal for it.

The people who refuse to believe would correlate to people who didn't just say "Oh yeah the Earth must be flat because I can't prove you wrong right now". The proper thing to do is reject baseless claims like the existence of a deity. Rejecting something doesn't necessarily need evidence, rejecting something merely needs looking at the support for it and if there is none, well the only intelligent thing to do is to discard it, not believe it.

Again, I question the terms on which you're deeming the claim to be 'baseless'. And how you justify thinking that believing in God isn't an intelligent thing to do.

Its lack of evidence just *might* be a the reason I'm calling it baseless. You know, like the idea that Obama is a Kenyan and there's merely a vast conspiracy to hide it. No evidence either way. And it's simply not the smart move to believe in things that there's no reason to believe in. Like leprechauns or that Bella from Twilight really exists.

And when you said nonsense, you said what you believe to be nonsense. You can try to think you're using logic, but you're really not. You're putting your personal view on the issue ahead of the issue itself.

Right, and you've shown that I'm not using logic and am putting my personal view ahead of the issue... how? Oh wait, it's empty rhetoric. Try again when you have substance. Otherwise it's just you blowing hot air. As if that isn't happening enough already.

Because you summarily reject any opinion that isn't yours, repeatedly insulting the intelligence and capacity for thought of anyone who doesn't agree with you. That's why.

Lol? You really are one of those people who can't defend their opinions with anything approaching honesty, aren't you? No, I don't summarily reject any opinion that isn't mine. That's an idiotic lie about me. I evaluate it. It's just your pathetic ad hominem defense. I hope your god approves of dishonesty...

And there is not a single good reason not to believe. So why is one judged to be better than the other?

Because one side is fanciful imagination and the other side is simply failing to buy into things that have nothing to support them. Ask a hard question next time?

One side is having an open mind, and the other side is maintaining a completely closed mind by denying that there's even the slightest shred of possibility that they're wrong about something.

It's not open minded to have huge bias that leads you to be 'open' to the existence of beings that have no evidence.

It is utter speculation that no sort of deity exists. That isn't hard, either.

Not really. It's what all the evidence points to.

Except there is no evidence. There is only a lack of evidence, which is not proof to the contrary.

It's a good indication that you should reject the claim. It's not 'open minded' to give credence to all sorts of baseless claims, that's just being credulous.

If we were in the Matrix, how would we ever know, unless it was as shoddily programmed as the one in the movies?

Doesn't matter. It has the same evidence as the idea of a deity. Better start showing believers in the Matrix some respect.

I do. Because there's no conclusive proof that they're wrong, so I concede that they could be right.

Then you really have low standards of evidence. It's nonsense. Just because there's no conclusive evidence they're wrong doesn't mean they deserve respect. If we throw things like magic into it then I can make whatever kinds of claims I want. Obama mind controls people who try to investigate his birth certificate. He's clearly a malevolent wizard.

And there's plenty of proof that Obama isn't a shape shifting alien. Birth records and DNA and blood samples, etc. etc, enough that it's unreasonable to believe otherwise. (But then this is Obama we're talking about, and good luck convincing certain right-wing nutjobs that he wasn't born in Kenya...) Anyway, no such evidence exists that disproves God.

All easily faked if he's a shapeshifting alien. Clearly an advanced race. Might as well be practically omnipotent compared to us. So sorry, no evidence to disprove Obama being an alien! Unless we're going to count that God fails to adhere to the laws of physics as evidence against him.

Except if the evidence is faked, then it was faked by someone or something, which suggests a conspiracy, which means that there's either a huge conspiracy in the works to cover up that Obama is an alien. And which is more likely, that the proof that Obama isn't an alien is genuine, or that there's a massive conspiracy?

What happened to your lack of conclusive evidence that proves it wrong line? Was it too inconvenient to keep up? If you want to play with 'what's more likely' then say hello to Occam's Razor and goodbye to God.

Of course not. Because it's stupid to even consider that there might be a God, so any hypothetical thinking about the nature of God's existence should it be a reality is just sheer balls-to-the-wall idiocy.

Pretty much. Until something comes along to make it worth speculating about.

Yup. Someone tell all those scientists studying to universe not to bother, because everything they're seeing happened millions of years ago, so it's not worth speculating about.

You wish you had anything approaching a similarity with those scientists. They actually are gathering facts based on evidence they see. It's insulting to them to compare what they do to baseless speculation that involves 0 facts.

Res Plus:
It always amazes me how religion retrenches with each body blow. The world is flat, oh some Italian chap has proved it round, oh right, well that was a metaphor.

The world is 5000 years old, oh some English Victorian geologist has proved it's over 4 billion years old, oh right, well that was a metaphor.

Metaphorical interpretations of the creation story in Genesis have existed for, at the very least, 1900 years. Saint Augustine is an obvious example, or Maimonides (though he was a literalist, he said he'd have no problem changing his mind if anyone was able to convince him of the Aristotelian view that the universe was eternal). Both of those are, by the way, essential figures in their respective faiths.

You're also bizarrely equating the word "religion" with "Christianity".

Religion is pure "belief", atheism is based on scientific enquiry.

It doesn't mean anything except "a lack of belief in deities". There are religious atheists, in fact.

Zachary Amaranth:

Therumancer:
the pro-gay movement isn't winning, and never really has been

So...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/01/defense-marriage-act-appears-to-be-headed-to-supreme-court-after-appeals-court/

The gays are just lying when they force Fox News to take a break from its "fair and balanced" reporting to mention that an appeals court has ruled DOMA Unconstitutional?

Well, that's a win for America, not just the gays. ;)

The thing I've never understood is why they'd use this "gays don't go to heaven" thing as an excuse for harassment of gays, (this also applies to atheism).

Fine, they don't get to go to heaven. No need to harass them for it, I mean, isn't their punishment awaiting them anyway?

(For the record I don't believe the Jewish law condemns homosexuality anyway. There are enough contradictions in today's Christian culture and the old testament that any Christian who is going to take the old testament seriously has to do away with)

Also, for the record I'm not really a Christian per se, but had a real Christian upbringing.

I read it, watch a few moments of the video and feel...SSDD folks. Welcome to America everyone. We're a bunch of idiots....

It's like they're just TRYING to make it harder for people like me to call themselves Christians. Believe it or not, though, these people WILL believe that they're the ones being persecuted.

MasterOfHisOwnDomain:
I would be offended, but fortunately there is not going to be a heaven for me, those people, the children or anyone because it doesn't exist. There will just be infinite nothingness. How's that for a sing-song?

Pretty much this. I don't think we really need to go into detail about how reprehensible the actions in the video are.

Also, if only bigots and relgious assholes are allowed into heaven, then it sucks to be there.

Daystar Clarion:
Religion on its own, isn't a bad thing.

Stupid people who use religion as a shield is what sucks.

If there was no religion, morons would find some other following to get behind to voice their bigoted views.

I would argue that faith is safe.

Religion is bad.

Mostly because an idea as abstract and easily molded as faith should not be shoehorned into something as rigid and potent as a group.

The moment you equate judging a religion with questioning the faith of people identifying as members of that religion you have solidified your group as invincible and it paves the way to grave misdeeds all over the place.

Dr. Pepper Unlimited:
I read it, watch a few moments of the video and feel...SSDD folks. Welcome to America everyone. We're a bunch of idiots....

Here is a good example of my point. The "group" of America is collectively put up for the actions of a small group of faithfuls. [And yes, I am hard pressed to find support that hardline bigoted people are a majority stake in the US.]

Basically they are protected behind a shield of expected ignorance because of their nationality.

And I realize that the awesomely named DPU (I really do love your name, DP is awesome ) is probably joking, but it seemed like a timely comment. :)

Daystar Clarion:
Religion on its own, isn't a bad thing.

Stupid people who use religion as a shield is what sucks.

If there was no religion, morons would find some other following to get behind to voice their bigoted views.

Religion is fine, until people get involved.

But in terms of the OP: And people wonder why I wish all religions would make informed decisions about things and not what a book written by people we would throw into an insane asylum today!

Instant K4rma:
A standing ovation for a small child singing about how gays are going to Hell. This just astounds me. Everyone just laughs and cheers like it's the cutest damned thing they've ever seen. I'm seriously at a loss of words to express my disappointment.

Exactly my thought. Kids will do whatever their parents think is cute. The standing ovation from the room full of people and the guy proudly crowing, "That's my boy!" are far and away the most disturbing part of this.

"Our beliefs dictate that some people will be tortured for an eternal afterlife. This kid just reminded us of eternal torture of a fellow human being. Cue the standing ovation."

Even if you subscribe to the rather goofy belief system, why is that cause for applause? Is next week "Ain't no adulterers gonna make it to heaven"? Then Atheists, Hindus, and those who covet their neighbor's goods?

>.> Most religion has always been against Homosexuals it not a surprise that the would teach there children the same thing, I honestly do not understand why you all are so surprised.

Vault101:
wow.....they are really going ape shit over that

YEEEAAAAHH!! HOMOPHOBIA IS AWSOME!!

or mabye they are just giving the kid a big round of appluse....lyrics and hate aside it is cute

It is more like "Our right to have marriage unaffected by gay marriage that will not effect our marriage or Church is more important to than few thousand rights gay couples who likely have far better relationships than any one in our church has being able to have such rights!" but I like the one you gave, it is more condensed and holds the same weight. Far easier to chant at those morons as well. Mine is even bad as an acronym.

well good, by their text Hitler has a good chance of being in Heaven... do you want to spend eternity with Hitler?

Res Plus:

Nah, sorry, don't agree at all. The way you have put it is the way many religious group try to frame it to make the two viewpoints equivalent, they are not.

It always amazes me how religion retrenches with each body blow. The world is flat, oh some Italian chap has proved it round, oh right, well that was a metaphor.

The world is 5000 years old, oh some English Victorian geologist has proved it's over 4 billion years old, oh right, well that was a metaphor.

Religion is the ignoring of all practical envidence, no matter how much it piles up. Atheism is the weighing up of evidence and coming to the only logical conclusion based on that evidence.

Religion is pure "belief", atheism is based on scientific enquiry.

Except they didn't say it was a metaphor.
They killed the guy who said it was round. Nice try though.

In fact, religion has very rarely used the term metaphor. Not to mention there are in fact people who still believe the earth is only 5000 years old.

Atheism is not scientific inquiry. Science is scientific inquiry.

Religion is pure belief.
Atheism is counter to belief.
Agnosticism is saying, "Whatever. Until one of you can prove there is or isn't a god, shut the hell up."

Frozen Fox:
well good, by their text Hitler has a good chance of being in Heaven... do you want to spend eternity with Hitler?

Yes. You gotta admit, to trick an entire nation into genocide, he's gotta be a charismatic son of a bitch. Best wingman ever for the Heaven open bar.

Daystar Clarion:
Religion on its own, isn't a bad thing.

Stupid people who use religion as a shield is what sucks.

If there was no religion, morons would find some other following to get behind to voice their bigoted views.

THIS! This is one of the best answers Ive read in a forum post for sometime. Bravo, just bravo! Stupid people will always be around and will always find something to put up as a front for their atrocious behavior.

TheYellowCellPhone:
I could slew around a few quotes, like Napoleon's "Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich," but I don't think it would fit the given context. Plus, people get mad.

You mean like Marx's "Religion is the opiate of the masses"

BathorysGraveland:
I certainly wouldn't call it child abuse. More like the parents teaching their child their own personal beliefs which they see as correct.

I originally saw this on MSNBC (on one of their more liberal shows) and they were able to make that link. They're teaching their kids hate, which ultimately hurts them--or something like that. It makes sense.

Daystar Clarion:
Religion on its own, isn't a bad thing.

Stupid people who use religion as a shield is what sucks.

If there was no religion, morons would find some other following to get behind to voice their bigoted views.

Did I not reply to you? Oh well, sorry if I already did. So anyways coming back to quickly read through this thread and finding all the tangential arguments surfacing all over the place I find you reply one of the most quoted. Very interesting what you said and to a considerable degree I agree. :)

what a sad state, people are cheering a kid for singing something he more than likely does not understand, a song that is more than likely his parents putting him up to sing. I pity that kid, but the adults who clapped and cheered should all be neutered

Daystar Clarion:

If there was no religion, morons would find some other following to get behind to voice their bigoted views.

Like politics. Or music. Or games. Or those other things people get really pissed off and argue the toss about but to a lesser degree than religion.

OT: Hah. I don't care if I don't make it to their heaven, mine will have blackjack and hookers.

And my parents wonder why I hate kids. They just follow what they're told in the end, and blast their stupidity across.

And, the Bible's not right. It states that women are the most precious thing a man can have, and then some other ancient texts related to the Bible say that woman are just sexual-objects. The Bible can't even get itself right - so who the hell is this kid to say it is, especially when all the RME teachers leave out all the gorey and mature stuff and religion gets so much hate for, and claim that they're just bigots?

Sorry if I rambled on, but honestly, this fucking pisses me off to no end.

SkarKrow:

Daystar Clarion:

If there was no religion, morons would find some other following to get behind to voice their bigoted views.

Like politics. Or music. Or games. Or those other things people get really pissed off and argue the toss about but to a lesser degree than religion.

OT: Hah. I don't care if I don't make it to their heaven, mine will have blackjack and hookers.

In fact... forget the heaven part!

Religious fanatics, right up there on the top list of reasons why I have less and less faith in humanity.

Poor kid.

CrazyJew:

SkarKrow:

Daystar Clarion:

If there was no religion, morons would find some other following to get behind to voice their bigoted views.

Like politics. Or music. Or games. Or those other things people get really pissed off and argue the toss about but to a lesser degree than religion.

OT: Hah. I don't care if I don't make it to their heaven, mine will have blackjack and hookers.

In fact... forget the heaven part!

Ah just the screw the whole thing! xD

Saulkar:
Really?! I mean... fucking really?!

People are calling this child abuse, indoctrination, vile, I call it fucking retarded. Seriously, in the age old question when did anyone ever know what God's opinion on homosexuals is? Who are they to judge?

No disrespect to peaceful people of faith but it is shit like this experienced in real life that made me reject organised religion. Especially what they are doing to this kid? I am hoping this kid does not understand what he is say because I sure as hell would have at that age. Now I kept this in the off topic section to avoid making this a (flaming argument) strictly religious debate (which it will unfortunately become without a doubt) so what do you gals and guys have to say about this?

NOTE: I am pretty miffed by this video and thus my OP is pretty much nonsensical so I will now leave this forum and allow you hopefully (not gonna happen) have a civil, open discussion about this. And please Do not include me in it because if the OP is any evidence, I am not thinking straight. That includes backhanded, sarcastic remarks.

Nice christ picture.

OT: Chances are, the kid doesn't understand what he's singing and is simply performing so that he will get parental approval (or at least avoid punishment) but yeah, it would be nice if we as Christians could get a consistent definition or rating of importance of specific individual bible verses.

Personally I am waiting for the pilgrimage of the Jacket. Where Christians from all over the world go to some small town in the middle east carrying a new jacket to give it to a small statue of Saint Paul, simply because St paul said to some guy in the 1st century "bring me a jacket".

Daystar Clarion:
Religion on its own, isn't a bad thing.

Stupid people who use religion as a shield is what sucks.

If there was no religion, morons would find some other following to get behind to voice their bigoted views.

I've always felt that religion is a needed aspect of reality, for two reasons.

For one, I'm not too keen on living in a world where we're just resigned to this being it, so that's my personal opinion on the ideas of religion, but more importantly, it's served as a binding agent for society for thousands of years. Maybe some feel that it's evil or unneeded, but I doubt a case could be made that there was a better force for bringing together people. Even if it's not true and there is nothing out there, at least it's played a roll in forming civilizations. I doubt we'd have nearly as much to be proud of as a race without religion. Even if its time of relevance is fading away, which I'm not too sure it is, we should give it credit for playing a big part in human advancement.

Oh, and bigots need no flag or religion. Removing it wouldn't stop stupid. No force can defeat stupid.

OT: Hopefully a point will come where the child will realize what he said, and hang his head, otherwise he'll just grow into one of the audience. Here's hoping, eh?

Ignorance, get it in them young before they form analytical thinking skills.

(Why do you churches want you to take kids more then anything else.)

Daystar Clarion:
Religion on its own, isn't a bad thing.

Stupid people who use religion as a shield is what sucks.

If there was no religion, morons would find some other following to get behind to voice their bigoted views.

most people can pretty much make a religious following out of anything
political parties, sci-fi novels and writers - looking at L. Ron Hubbard and George Lucas
so yes, I'd have to agree with you
for the most part, religion (at least the major branches) do not actively tell you to hurt others in any way shape or form, it is the people who only take small portions of the big picture in order to suit their individualistic views

silver wolf009:

Daystar Clarion:
Religion on its own, isn't a bad thing.

Stupid people who use religion as a shield is what sucks.

If there was no religion, morons would find some other following to get behind to voice their bigoted views.

I've always felt that religion is a needed aspect of reality, for two reasons.

For one, I'm not too keen on living in a world where we're just resigned to this being it, so that's my personal opinion on the ideas of religion, but more importantly, it's served as a binding agent for society for thousands of years. Maybe some feel that it's evil or unneeded, but I doubt a case could be made that there was a better force for bringing together people. Even if it's not true and there is nothing out there, at least it's played a roll in forming civilizations. I doubt we'd have nearly as much to be proud of as a race without religion. Even if its time of relevance is fading away, which I'm not too sure it is, we should give it credit for playing a big part in human advancement.

Oh, and bigots need no flag or religion. Removing it wouldn't stop stupid. No force can defeat stupid.

OT: Hopefully a point will come where the child will realize what he said, and hang his head, otherwise he'll just grow into one of the audience. Here's hoping, eh?

Agreed.
And for anyone worrying that only America has so many bigots and fanatics, we in Poland have more. And they gather each 10th of the each month around the Presidential Palace in Warsaw, yell, chant religious songs and throw things at pepole. All that because a plane carrying half of the ruling party including the president and his wife crashed near Smolensk two years ago.
Not only that, but they blame it on the rest of the government, which aren't very nice and intelligent either. Just lovely.

Hopefully no one has found this offensive.

On a side note: I think that I've clicked a Red Button in someone's badges, and everyone's avatar depicts J.Bieber now. Should've listened to the warnings.

Bolwing:

silver wolf009:

Daystar Clarion:
Religion on its own, isn't a bad thing.

Stupid people who use religion as a shield is what sucks.

If there was no religion, morons would find some other following to get behind to voice their bigoted views.

I've always felt that religion is a needed aspect of reality, for two reasons.

For one, I'm not too keen on living in a world where we're just resigned to this being it, so that's my personal opinion on the ideas of religion, but more importantly, it's served as a binding agent for society for thousands of years. Maybe some feel that it's evil or unneeded, but I doubt a case could be made that there was a better force for bringing together people. Even if it's not true and there is nothing out there, at least it's played a roll in forming civilizations. I doubt we'd have nearly as much to be proud of as a race without religion. Even if its time of relevance is fading away, which I'm not too sure it is, we should give it credit for playing a big part in human advancement.

Oh, and bigots need no flag or religion. Removing it wouldn't stop stupid. No force can defeat stupid.

OT: Hopefully a point will come where the child will realize what he said, and hang his head, otherwise he'll just grow into one of the audience. Here's hoping, eh?

Agreed.
And for anyone worrying that only America has so many bigots and fanatics, we in Poland have more. And they gather each 10th of the each month around the Presidential Palace in Warsaw, yell, chant religious songs and throw things at pepole. All that because a plane carrying half of the ruling party including the president and his wife crashed near Smolensk two years ago.
Not only that, but they blame it on the rest of the government, which aren't very nice and intelligent either. Just lovely.

Hopefully no one has found this offensive.

Diverting from the topic, I see you're new here. In case someone hasn't yet welcomed you, allow me!

Welcome to the Escapist friend. Avoid the basement, and have fun.

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