Am I Talking Out of My Ass?
You're Right.
19.1% (186)
19.1% (186)
You're Wrong.
13.1% (128)
13.1% (128)
Who Cares?
7.2% (70)
7.2% (70)
You're an ass.
3.8% (37)
3.8% (37)
I wish you were wrong.
11.3% (110)
11.3% (110)
Muffins are delicious.
26.4% (257)
26.4% (257)
I think you're kinda right and kinda wrong.
16% (156)
16% (156)
You're an old fart who just hates the next generation.
2.5% (24)
2.5% (24)
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Poll: Girls Don't Like Assholes.

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BloatedGuppy:

Smeatza:
I read the conversation leading up to it and his response seems antagonistic and emotive.

Yes there are some people out there who are too busy feeling sorry for themselves to improve their lives.

There are also people out there who accept their flaws and would like to change their lives but are crippled by fear and a lack of confidence, and being a douche towards those people is not going to help.

You and I have a very different take on the post that provoked that response. I wasn't as sharp with him as Panzer was, but I was significantly less gentle than Eamar. I see someone who is wallowing, and petulantly lashing out at people who are trying to help them. Compassion can take many forms. It can be a gentle word or a soft hand on the shoulder. Or it can be refusing to enable someone's spiral of circular logic and self-loathing.

Hearing people tell me I was wonderful did NOT HELP ME when I was depressed and hated myself and hated women. Finally recognizing that I was turning into a HUGE asshole helped. Recognizing that my bitterness and depression had become its own problem helped.

Smeatza:
So please stop trying to play it off like you're taking some morale stance. The fact of the matter is your callousness and cold-heartedness are either because you have a distinct lack of empathy, or you despise those that represent that part of you that you once despised.

Callousness and cold-heartedness? Are we perhaps being a tad melodramatic? He is being neither. He is being BLUNT. He's employing the lead boot instead of the velvet glove. That does not mean he "lacks empathy". It means he believes a different kind of motivation is called for in this case, due to his own experiences. The one taking a moral (and, I might add, condemnatory) stance here is you. You're also engaging in some pretty high handed name calling, and might want to tone it down. The tone of discussion in here is actually fairly civil. There's absolutely no need to go on the attack. I can see you think Doclector needs a gentle touch and understanding ear right now, and I respect that, but I also respectfully disagree. That Doctlector is actively stating that he is "sick to death" of well meaning advice indicates to me he's past the sympathy stage and needs a good smack. Don't we ALL need a good smack now and then?

You know, I really need to learn how to deal with attacks like this. My response is normally to pretend that they're right and then ignore them. If he wants to think I'm callous and cold-hearted, if he wants to think I'm abusing whiny people to hide flaws inside of myself, then I'll let him. It's not worth arguing.

Panzer_God:
*snip*

What the hell is wrong with people and why do posts like these keep cropping up all over The Escapist.
I didn't realise we're a sub forum of E-Harmony right now, when did this change happen?

Women are not some alternate species of Human that are so mystical to understand, they're just people. If you try acting like a woman is a person then you'll probably get more ladies like that and if you have to ask why someone isn't dating you? Well she's probably just not attracted to you.
Confidence or not won't change your sex appeal to her unless she was attracted to you in the first place.

It's really quite sad we have to go over this shit time and time again.

Panzer_God:
Eamar told him that his outlook was what was causing the problem, what he didn't mention was the solution. Why didn't he mention it? Because the solution is to get the fuck over yourself and deal with it.

I'm a she, but I won't hold that against you :P

And to be fair, I was hoping to ease Doclector into some sort of conversation and tease out some relevant information (didn't want to go in all guns blazing if there was some seriously bad shit that had recently happened or something). I would have got to the "get over it" part eventually, though probably not in those words.

I think we're all just working from our own experiences here. You're doing what you found helpful for you, I'm starting off gently because that helps me (I also have experience of mental health problems). If Doclector want to take any advice he has a variety of approaches to choose from. Ball's in his court now.

Lyri:

Panzer_God:
*snip*

What the hell is wrong with people and why do posts like these keep cropping up all over The Escapist.
I didn't realise we're a sub forum of E-Harmony right now, when did this change happen?

Women are not some alternate species of Human that are so mystical to understand, they're just people. If you try acting like a woman is a person then you'll probably get more ladies like that and if you have to ask why someone isn't dating you? Well she's probably just not attracted to you.
Confidence or not won't change your sex appeal to her unless she was attracted to you in the first place.

It's really quite sad we have to go over this shit time and time again.

Another person who didn't read the whole OP, I see. Hint: he agrees with you.

Doclector:
snip.

It isn't a relationship thread until Doclector whines about how he is the most ugly and unattractive person in existence and the world is conspiring against him.

CrazyGirl17:

370999:

CrazyGirl17:
I'm a girl, and I hate assholes... though I suppose there are (stupid) women who do...

But you're crazy, I mean it's in your name, that you are the 17th model of the insane female!

Hey, I may be crazy, but I do have standards...

Girlish Crazy standards?

The "assholes have confidence" thing is starting to make my head hurt. In reality, assholes have very little confidence; it's why they're assholes in the first place. What they DO have is a sort of perfected arrogance that SEEMS like confidence but is actually low self-esteem with chainmail on. It's desperation, not bravado that finally makes them talk to strangers. And not all girls like that aggressiveness either. So buck up, shy guys. You're still in the game.

Source: I am an asshole.

Generalizations: The Thread.

Anyway, yes, you're right about the confidence thing, just as you would be if you said bugs were attracted to light. But the rest is barely even an argument.

7 pages is a great deal to go through, so if this has been mentioned, I apologise.

Women don't "like" arseholes, they're simply drawn to mate with them. Why? Arseholes tend to exhibit far more masculine traits than non-arseholes (the so-called nice-guys) and when a woman is looking to produce strong, healthy offspring, she wants a man, not a boy dressed as one.

Of course, most arseholes are just boys incredibly well-dressed as men, hence why, while she might get pregnant to him, she's unlikely to stay with him. That's where the nice-guy comes in. He's likely to a) be a better provider in an absolute sense (better earning power) and b) less likely to cheat on her (fewer opportunities and offers respectively). And women are perfectly content to trade sexual favours for material favours ("I suck you, you succor me" to put it oh-so-eloquently)

This all comes back to psychology, and evolutionary psychology at that. If you're unable to get yourself a woman, either content yourself to wait until you're thirty (they'll come running. Granted, they'll probably have a kid or two, but hey, them's the breaks) OR educate yourself on what YOU ARE NOT DOING CORRECTLY TO ATTRACT WOMEN, learn from your mistakes, and get out there tiger. It comes down to confidence (as OP correctly states) but genuine confidence and arseholery are distinct enough that a woman worth your time will be able to pick the difference.

Eamar:

Panzer_God:
Eamar told him that his outlook was what was causing the problem, what he didn't mention was the solution. Why didn't he mention it? Because the solution is to get the fuck over yourself and deal with it.

I'm a she, but I won't hold that against you :P

And to be fair, I was hoping to ease Doclector into some sort of conversation and tease out some relevant information (didn't want to go in all guns blazing if there was some seriously bad shit that had recently happened or something). I would have got to the "get over it" part eventually, though probably not in those words.

I think we're all just working from our own experiences here. You're doing what you found helpful for you, I'm starting off gently because that helps me (I also have experience of mental health problems). If Doclector want to take any advice he has a variety of approaches to choose from. Ball's in his court now.

Yeah, but that's because you're quite a bit nicer than me xD

BloatedGuppy:
Callousness and cold-heartedness? Are we perhaps being a tad melodramatic? He is being neither. He is being BLUNT. He's employing the lead boot instead of the velvet glove. That does not mean he "lacks empathy". It means he believes a different kind of motivation is called for in this case, due to his own experiences. The one taking a moral (and, I might add, condemnatory) stance here is you. You're also engaging in some pretty high handed name calling, and might want to tone it down. The tone of discussion in here is actually fairly civil. There's absolutely no need to go on the attack. I can see you think Doclector needs a gentle touch and understanding ear right now, and I respect that, but I also respectfully disagree. That Doctlector is actively stating that he is "sick to death" of well meaning advice indicates to me he's past the sympathy stage and needs a good smack. Don't we ALL need a good smack now and then?

It could also mean there is a deeper or more complicated problem at the root of it all. Perhaps we are at an impasse, I simply see no need for what appears to me as a lack of kindness and civility (which is what blunt means).

Panzer_God:
It's been a while since anyone has accused me of discriminating against the clinically depressed, since until last year I was heavily medicated for depression and anger management issues. I was clinically depressed for most of my formative years, and do you know how I got over it? Neither do I, I just did. People told me to man the fuck up, and once I pulled my head out of my ass, I manned the fuck up and suddenly my problems went away. My advice isn't substandard, nor is it misunderstood, it's the most direct way of giving the advice to the people I am directing it to. Basically I'm saying exactly what Eamar did, and I respect him for having the patience to do it the long way. I've gone to six therapists, three psychologists (psychiatrists? I don't remember which) and in my experience, all of their advice boils down to telling someone to get over it, with differing levels of bullshit in between. Eamar told him that his outlook was what was causing the problem, what he didn't mention was the solution. Why didn't he mention it? Because the solution is to get the fuck over yourself and deal with it. I just skipped straight past the boring part.

You'll have to forgive me if I take your claims with a pinch of salt.
And like I have said, your personal experience is not necessarily indicative of others.

In any case, nobody is going to change their outlook on life simply because you told them to do so. They have to realise themselves that they must do so. And your kind of advice only serves to cement feelings of isolation.

Panzer_God:
Wait, wait, wait. When did I claim to be taking a moral stance? My entire stance in this thread has been telling people to get over themselves. Where we are conflicting is in that you don't believe it's a legitimate stance and I do, but I never claimed that it was a moral one. Although, your theories on my reasons for being callous are both true. I am a sociopath, so empathy has never been my strong point. I'm a sociopath who hates anything that reminds me of the point in time where I cried myself to sleep at night. I hates the people who have the same problem that I did, but without the strength and courage to do what I did to change it.

You are saying that it is ok to be uncivil towards those who have confidence/social etc. issues if you believe you are trying to help. That is a moral stance whether you like it or not.
And the part in bold...well...just horrifies me. You hate those that are weaker than you emotionally?
It pretty much sums up everything I've been saying.

Panzer_God:

Eamar:

Panzer_God:
Eamar told him that his outlook was what was causing the problem, what he didn't mention was the solution. Why didn't he mention it? Because the solution is to get the fuck over yourself and deal with it.

I'm a she, but I won't hold that against you :P

And to be fair, I was hoping to ease Doclector into some sort of conversation and tease out some relevant information (didn't want to go in all guns blazing if there was some seriously bad shit that had recently happened or something). I would have got to the "get over it" part eventually, though probably not in those words.

I think we're all just working from our own experiences here. You're doing what you found helpful for you, I'm starting off gently because that helps me (I also have experience of mental health problems). If Doclector want to take any advice he has a variety of approaches to choose from. Ball's in his court now.

Yeah, but that's because you're quite a bit nicer than me xD

Strangely enough, I'm much more patient on the internet than I am in real life... I have no idea how that works either.

Panzer_God:

Smeatza:

Panzer_God:
I'm a sociopath who hates anything that reminds me of the point in time where I cried myself to sleep at night. I hates the people who have the same problem that I did, but without the strength and courage to do what I did to change it.

And the part in bold...well...just horrifies me. You hate those that are weaker than you emotionally?

Yes. Problem?

Do you think you are morally justified in this? Do you see it as an issue you should work on?

Eamar:

Panzer_God:

Eamar:

I'm a she, but I won't hold that against you :P

And to be fair, I was hoping to ease Doclector into some sort of conversation and tease out some relevant information (didn't want to go in all guns blazing if there was some seriously bad shit that had recently happened or something). I would have got to the "get over it" part eventually, though probably not in those words.

I think we're all just working from our own experiences here. You're doing what you found helpful for you, I'm starting off gently because that helps me (I also have experience of mental health problems). If Doclector want to take any advice he has a variety of approaches to choose from. Ball's in his court now.

Yeah, but that's because you're quite a bit nicer than me xD

Strangely enough, I'm much more patient on the internet than I am in real life... I have no idea how that works either.

I used to be. Now I have more fun rising to the bait people lay out. It's so much fun to tell someone that everything they think about me is true and listen to them try and explain why that makes me the scum of the earth.

Smeatza:

Panzer_God:

Smeatza:

And the part in bold...well...just horrifies me. You hate those that are weaker than you emotionally?

Yes. Problem?

Do you think you are morally justified in this? Do you see it as an issue you should work on?

No, not really. I think I'm just fine, in fact I'd say I'm still in the right. I'm waiting for you to tell me why it's a bad thing. Why am I a bad person for expecting everyone to be as strong as me?

Panzer_God:

Smeatza:

Panzer_God:

Yes. Problem?

Do you think you are morally justified in this? Do you see it as an issue you should work on?

No, not really. I think I'm just fine, in fact I'd say I'm still in the right. I'm waiting for you to tell me why it's a bad thing. Why am I a bad person for expecting everyone to be as strong as me?

Because not everyone is as strong as you.
There are so many factors (genetics, upbringing etc.) in play here that to expect everyone to be at your level of emotional strength is unrealistic and unreasonable. And to say that your civility and kindness only extends to those that are at or above your standards is elitist. To say that you hate those who are not up to your standards is just......wow.

More to the point, to look at somone who is going through the same struggles you went through, see that they might not have the emotional strength to meet those challenges and then to condemn them for it, instead of taking pity or (at the very least) leaving them alone is hateful and destructive.

It genuinely saddens me to see you feel this way.

Oh, and also

Panzer_God:
You know, I really need to learn how to deal with attacks like this. My response is normally to pretend that they're right and then ignore them. If he wants to think I'm callous and cold-hearted, if he wants to think I'm abusing whiny people to hide flaws inside of myself, then I'll let him. It's not worth arguing.

The way you would deal with this is by explaining why you think I'm wrong, and why you think you are correct.
If you still have nothing it might be time to start considering that I'm correct.
And I do not think you are trying to hide the flaws inside of yourself, I think your method of giving advice is reckless and inconsiderate.

Smeatza:

Panzer_God:

Smeatza:

Do you think you are morally justified in this? Do you see it as an issue you should work on?

No, not really. I think I'm just fine, in fact I'd say I'm still in the right. I'm waiting for you to tell me why it's a bad thing. Why am I a bad person for expecting everyone to be as strong as me?

Because not everyone is as strong as you.
There are so many factors (genetics, upbringing etc.) in play here that to expect everyone to be at your level of emotional strength is unrealistic and unreasonable. And to say that your civility and kindness only extends to those that are at or above your standards is elitist. To say that you hate those who are not up to your standards is just......wow.

More to the point, to look at somone who is going through the same struggles you went through, see that they might not have the emotional strength to meet those challenges and then to condemn them for it, instead of taking pity or (at the very least) leaving them alone is hateful and destructive.

It genuinely saddens me to see you feel this way.

Now I see where our opinions differ. You see, when I see someone who in unable to do what I could, I'm put in a situation where I have a few options.

1) I can treat them as though they are as capable as I am, which is apparently unreasonable.

2) I can treat them as though they are less capable than me, which is condescending.

3) I can ignore them completely, which is heartless.

I fail to see a way to win here. Also, just in case you are confused, I am an elitist. I think that a chain is only as good as it's weakest link and I see no reason to be ashamed of that. I think that I was in a position where the only holding me back was my own mental problems and I didn't expect hand-holding or special circumstances. I think that anyone who can't fix their problems on their own shouldn't be treated specially. I think that holding yourself back to take care of people weaker than yourself is the best way to waste your own potential.

Note, since any discussion of elitism eventually degenerates to "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!" I'm not in favor of abandoning children who can't keep up with adults, that's taking elitism and self-sufficiency to a dangerous level.

Panzer_God:

Smeatza:

Panzer_God:

Yes. Problem?

Do you think you are morally justified in this? Do you see it as an issue you should work on?

No, not really. I think I'm just fine, in fact I'd say I'm still in the right. I'm waiting for you to tell me why it's a bad thing. Why am I a bad person for expecting everyone to be as strong as me?

Same reason it would be bad for me to look down on anyone who can't do math as well as I can and expect them to perform the same regardless of their capabilities. It's simply a fact some people aren't able to do it. So it is an unrealistic expectation. That is bad.

Mortai Gravesend:

Panzer_God:

Smeatza:

Do you think you are morally justified in this? Do you see it as an issue you should work on?

No, not really. I think I'm just fine, in fact I'd say I'm still in the right. I'm waiting for you to tell me why it's a bad thing. Why am I a bad person for expecting everyone to be as strong as me?

Same reason it would be bad for me to look down on anyone who can't do math as well as I can and expect them to perform the same regardless of their capabilities. It's simply a fact some people aren't able to do it. So it is an unrealistic expectation. That is bad.

Good answer. Question, and this is a legitimate question, but do you really not get annoyed with people who aren't as good? You don't watch people struggling with equations you've mastered and sigh? I don't know when you were in school last, but you didn't get mad when your math class spent three times as long as you needed on something because other people couldn't keep up with you?

Panzer_God:

Mortai Gravesend:

Panzer_God:

No, not really. I think I'm just fine, in fact I'd say I'm still in the right. I'm waiting for you to tell me why it's a bad thing. Why am I a bad person for expecting everyone to be as strong as me?

Same reason it would be bad for me to look down on anyone who can't do math as well as I can and expect them to perform the same regardless of their capabilities. It's simply a fact some people aren't able to do it. So it is an unrealistic expectation. That is bad.

Good answer. Question, and this is a legitimate question, but do you really not get annoyed with people who aren't as good? You don't watch people struggling with equations you've mastered and sigh? I don't know when you were in school last, but you didn't get mad when your math class spent three times as long as you needed on something because other people couldn't keep up with you?

I get a bit annoyed when people fail to understand, but that's just, well... irrational frustration. I can get past that and not blame people personally. I mean hell, I tutor people in math so I better be able to get over that, you know? XD

But I have been very annoyed when people held things back, but if I stop and think past my initial reaction I don't keep holding it against them. I wouldn't, for instance, go and say that they should be as good as me if I'm asked about it. I'll acknowledge my anger is irrational and it will be brief, lasting for the time that I am inconvenienced and a bit after as I cool down.

Mortai Gravesend:

Panzer_God:

Mortai Gravesend:

Same reason it would be bad for me to look down on anyone who can't do math as well as I can and expect them to perform the same regardless of their capabilities. It's simply a fact some people aren't able to do it. So it is an unrealistic expectation. That is bad.

Good answer. Question, and this is a legitimate question, but do you really not get annoyed with people who aren't as good? You don't watch people struggling with equations you've mastered and sigh? I don't know when you were in school last, but you didn't get mad when your math class spent three times as long as you needed on something because other people couldn't keep up with you?

I get a bit annoyed when people fail to understand, but that's just, well... irrational frustration. I can get past that and not blame people personally. I mean hell, I tutor people in math so I better be able to get over that, you know? XD

But I have been very annoyed when people held things back, but if I stop and think past my initial reaction I don't keep holding it against them. I wouldn't, for instance, go and say that they should be as good as me if I'm asked about it. I'll acknowledge my anger is irrational and it will be brief, lasting for the time that I am inconvenienced and a bit after as I cool down.

That's fair, and I won't deny that my anger is irrational. I can't quite think of the right way to say it, but it's not just that I really expect them to be as good as me. I say I expect them to be as good as me because that's the easiest way, but I can accept people not being as good as me just so long as they want it as much as I do, as long as they put in as much work as I do. It's not fair to them at all, but I'm pretty damn sure I've lived a worse life then most, so if I can get over it, why can't they?

If it's because they aren't able to, then how can you help them?

If it's because they don't want it, the why would you try?

If it's because they won't put the effort in, then why would you care?

The first group is the only one I sympathize with, but I still fail to see why I'm in the wrong for not wanting to waste my time.

Panzer_God:

Daystar Clarion:
Women are a hivemind again?

Nice.

Now I can get them all to make me a sandwich at the same time by using my fiancee as my communicator.

Joking aside, nobody knows what women want, because women are individuals too.

Cheap answer, I know.

But it's the right one :D

I'd left off one of the most important disclaimers in the opening xD. Thank you for reminding me.

QFT :O

It helps to realize that women are basically 'people' too. It sounds easy, but in reality, it can be hard for us introverts to 'ingrain' this mentality at first. Women are on a pedestal; they don't fart, or poop. Sometimes the reason why they don't 'like' you is because they simply aren't your type, in the same way you wouldn't like a 'fine' girl in a similar way. People have preferences.

I know it's all easier said than done, but basically, women = people. They have insecurities/wants/flaws too. Can't blame them for being attracted to confidence in the same way I'm attracted to cuties :3

370999:

Doclector:
snip.

It isn't a relationship thread until Doclector whines about how he is the most ugly and unattractive person in existence and the world is conspiring against him.

Yeah well. I'm sorry. I'm genuinely sorry, but every time one of these threads appears, it feels like a personal insult. That I'm lazy, inconsiderate, a coward. Not having a relationship is not the only damn thing in my life. I'm generally happy. I'm working towards my goals. Admittedly unlikely ones, but ones I care about. I've been up against my very worst fears to go to uni. I've struggled for years against all odds, I am none of those things. I'm fed up with being labeled as pathetic because I refuse to be humiliated. And y'know what? I love the assumption that I'm like this in real life. The only reason I'm like this here, is because when my friends are down, I'm the one who picks them up. They depend on me. It's not like that hurts, I enjoy it, why would I want to be a director if I didn't? To burden them with my problems would f*** that up a little, huh?

Look, I know I'm obsessed. I know there's something wrong with me when every time the point comes up, I have to pitch in no matter how much I know the same response is gonna happen every damn time. I know I'm paranoid, but there is jack all help out there besides mindf*** pills and asylums, so I just cope the best I can, and on the whole, I cope well. So I guess I'll try my best to keep it to myself.

Doclector:

370999:

Doclector:
snip.

It isn't a relationship thread until Doclector whines about how he is the most ugly and unattractive person in existence and the world is conspiring against him.

Yeah well. I'm sorry. I'm genuinely sorry, but every time one of these threads appears, it feels like a personal insult. That I'm lazy, inconsiderate, a coward. Not having a relationship is not the only damn thing in my life. I'm generally happy. I'm working towards my goals. Admittedly unlikely ones, but ones I care about. I've been up against my very worst fears to go to uni. I've struggled for years against all odds, I am none of those things. I'm fed up with being labeled as pathetic because I refuse to be humiliated. And y'know what? I love the assumption that I'm like this in real life. The only reason I'm like this here, is because when my friends are down, I'm the one who picks them up. They depend on me. It's not like that hurts, I enjoy it, why would I want to be a director if I didn't? To burden them with my problems would f*** that up a little, huh?

Look, I know I'm obsessed. I know there's something wrong with me when every time the point comes up, I have to pitch in no matter how much I know the same response is gonna happen every damn time. I know I'm paranoid, but there is jack all help out there besides mindf*** pills and asylums, so I just cope the best I can, and on the whole, I cope well. So I guess I'll try my best to keep it to myself.

Well it is a tad baffling to me

You seem to be a reasonably smart person, and by pursuing a path as a Director I would assume that you do possess a certain amount of insight into the emotional side of people.

So why are you so sold on this fantasy? It's an appealing one, I slip into it at times, but it isn't a real view of what people are actually like.

So yeah I kind of have to go by what I know of your character on the net. And that character seems to be sold on something just as fictitious as One True Love.

But if you like it, why discuss it so much? I just can't comprehend it. Mind you I'm not a very good netizen seeing as I have zero interest on having discussions that were already covered before.

Panzer_God:
Now I see where our opinions differ. You see, when I see someone who in unable to do what I could, I'm put in a situation where I have a few options.

1) I can treat them as though they are as capable as I am, which is apparently unreasonable.

2) I can treat them as though they are less capable than me, which is condescending.

3) I can ignore them completely, which is heartless.

You can not treat them with scorn, you can not hate them. You can try to realise that they still have value as a human being even if they're not as emotionally strong as you.

Panzer_God:
I fail to see a way to win here. Also, just in case you are confused, I am an elitist. I think that a chain is only as good as it's weakest link and I see no reason to be ashamed of that. I think that I was in a position where the only holding me back was my own mental problems and I didn't expect hand-holding or special circumstances. I think that anyone who can't fix their problems on their own shouldn't be treated specially. I think that holding yourself back to take care of people weaker than yourself is the best way to waste your own potential.

Then you are the definition of cold and callous. And I don't see why you bother protesting when people call you on it.
And I'll say it again, your personal experience is not universally relevant, the fact you didn't expect people to be civil to you, doesn't mean you have the right to be uncivil to others, and it certainly doesn't mean that being uncivil is helping.
And I wouldn't say that inspiring potential in others is a waste of potential at all.

Smeatza:
Then you are the definition of cold and callous. And I don't see why you bother protesting when people call you on it.

I don't. I'm cold, callous, heartless, elitist and a sociopath. What I have been arguing is that it's a bad thing. Up until now your only argument is that it isn't very nice, which again, I never denied. You keep taking my arguments as though I disagree with everything you say, despite the fact that I point out the specific points I disagree with.

Panzer_God:
I don't. I'm cold, callous, heartless, elitist and a sociopath. What I have been arguing is that it's a bad thing. Up until now your only argument is that it isn't very nice, which again, I never denied. You keep taking my arguments as though I disagree with everything you say, despite the fact that I point out the specific points I disagree with.

OH GOD YOU'RE SO COOL

Please grow up. That whole chaotic evil thing gets old around high school.

peruvianskys:

Panzer_God:
I don't. I'm cold, callous, heartless, elitist and a sociopath. What I have been arguing is that it's a bad thing. Up until now your only argument is that it isn't very nice, which again, I never denied. You keep taking my arguments as though I disagree with everything you say, despite the fact that I point out the specific points I disagree with.

OH GOD YOU'RE SO COOL

Please grow up. That whole chaotic evil thing gets old around high school.

Ah of course, because Heaven forbid there be someone that actually has these issues. Let me tell you, if I could grow up I would have because despite what high school kids think, it's not fun to not care. Ok, that's a lie, it's a lot of fun, but incredibly unfuffiling. I can make a dozen new friends every day, but I don't have any the next one. It's the first day at a new school every single day, and the best way to survive it is to convince yourself that you're above it. It's a defense mechanism, and it works. I'm sorry if it's too cliche for your highly exquisite tastes, but I don't give a damn.

I think what you are saying is in general correct (of course some girls probably do find testosterone fueled, alpha-male, assholes in and of themselves attractive regardless of confidence). Initially, confidence is often hugely important (though the degree of confidence will vary) and most of the time the guy with confidence probably wont be much of douchebag at all.

Sometimes they might be though and girls might initially be interested in them because those kind of alpha guys generally ooze confidence (and the fact that they are dicks might not be immediately apparent). That's when you get the complaints from the guys who have been 'friend-zoned' where woman complain to them about their boyfriends being dicks and wishing they were nice like them. However at the end of the day, in most cases, the reason why they didn't choose you was because they didn't find you attractive and a lot of the time, it really might have been a confidence issue (I know, like a lot of guys I've been there).

Physical attraction is obviously the other part but they usually go hand-in-hand.

Though of course I'm just a guy and basing this off of my personal experience and the woman I know, which is hardly a valid source. So what do I know?

Panzer_God:
*quoting your first original post, I am just snipping it down because it is really huge*

I've had this page open for a few days now with the intention of reading it, but with MLG starting this weekend, I've been a little occupied and whatnot. Well, I've finally read your post, and I have to say that it was very enlightening.

It is unfortunate that I am one of those guys that gets annoyed when he is friendzoned, one of those guys that says "why was I friendzoned? I am a much better guy than the guy that she is dating!", but after reading your post, I am going to do as much as I can to stop. It is unhealthy, really stupid, and it doesn't actually get me anywhere.

I had more that I was going to say, but MLG just started up again =|

Well. Here is my two cents.

I am female for one, so I think my opinion might count a bit in this perspective. I have dated a lot up until I met my fiance. I met great guys, non confident and confident, geeks, attractive (physical, mental or both), and so on.

Assholes never lasted too long for me. I mistakenly dated a manipulator once, but got out of that trap relatively soon.

My fiance is a confident guy. He is not egotistical, he is not a prick, he is confident that there is some things that he can offer someone in life, particularly me. There was two guys interested in me at the same time as my fiance, and I quickly fell for him. The first wasn't super confident, but a decent guy with a few personality clashes with mine. Great as a friend, not a person I considered for a lover. The second was an overconfident guy that didn't take no as an answer, then acted as if i was insane to not date him. Needless to say, wasn't considered either.

I chose my fiance for who he is, not some secret girl's checklist that claims i must pick someone with an ego, or someone with confidence, or someone geeky (which he is) or someone beautiful. I would love him even if he had no idea what Mass Effect, Diablo, Super Mario Brothers, Persona, or Bayonetta was. I love him for him. Amazing concept isn't it?

The summary:

Girls date guys for different reasons. Stop lumping us together like some horrible mass of tits, ass, mysteries and judgement. Seriously, that seems more unattractive than not being confident.

I'll say that I more or less agree except that confidence does not equal doucheness. There is a very big difference between the two. Also if I can tap and control this hivemind I can finally make the world's best Sanwitch if Witch of the black forest is taken off the banlist.

I haven't read all of that. And I can't speak for all of de wittle gurl pipos.

But I sure as heck wouldn't date a guy who is a jerk.

Also, if you're the type of person who responds to that with "you say that, but you wouldn't date a guy who wasn't a jerk u just don't realize it", you're not a nice guy, you're a jerk and I would not date you.

Allthingsspectacular:
Women don't like assholes, they're drawn to them. A subtle but meaningful difference.

Is that a euphemism? Because the title is VERY euphemistic.

I really hope that was on purpose!

Drawn to assholes? What?

I'm not drawn to assholes, either. I don't even want to so much as being the company of a guy who is an asshole.

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