Kansas may halt cursive education

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Olrod:
In school we were taught to write with joined-up letters as standard. Writing each letter individually is considered to be something only small children do.

Only in America can they regard something as ordinary as writing without needing to stop-start all the time as something "special" and call it cursive.

It's not ordinary though as most languages do not connect entire words into one long swirly line. And again, as mentioned over and over in this thread...It's not just America, it's the majority of the world with the exception of England and parts (yes, only parts) of Australia.

Also cursive is a word in the Oxford dictionary, it's not something Americans arbitrarily made up.

Olrod:
In school we were taught to write with joined-up letters as standard. Writing each letter individually is considered to be something only small children do.

Only in America can they regard something as ordinary as writing without needing to stop-start all the time as something "special" and call it cursive.

Yep, you read the thread...

No, it is not 'just' America, it is nearly whe whole fucking world (except England where most of the people still can't write cursive according to this thread).

Locke_Cole:

Sizzle Montyjing:

Zack Alklazaris:
The only thing I have ever had to do is sign my name in cursive and even that you can pretty much write whatever the fuck you want as long as your consistent about it.

Take cursive out and get kids typing. We have kids born AFTER the internet boom who still type with their indexes at 35 wpm. Its sad.

You seem to be forgetting that the keyboards have been around a lot less than mass writing has, and that kids who were born after the internet born are just shy of being in puberty/ slightly over right now.

I use cursive mostly, although I don't join up all the words, I write in my own style really which has just evolved from everyone acknowledging that English classes were mostly bullshit, hell, I learnt more about paragraph structure and writing good answers from History GCSE than I did English.

The web took off publicly in the early 90s, making "kids who were born after the internet" around 20...Not being shy of puberty.

Even if they were just hitting puberty I was typing 80wpm at 14. Granted I did embrace computers like they were my religion, but still kids still take computer classes I assume?

Reginald:
I think cursive should carry on (wayward son). Writing in cursive is faster and more efficient than printing when it comes to expressing what's on your mind, and it looks fine so long as you don't have wacky spaz hands. Many a magnum opus has been penned in cursive, and it was used to answer many questions of my childhood without any real problems. Cursive is one of those miracles out of nowhere, and it should be preserved.

image

No one should ever diss Kansas. Carry On is the one of the greatest song ever written.

OT: Last time I used cursive was... I forget. My handwriting is too awful to make out. Has been since 3rd grade.

Joccaren:
Cursive is still a thing?

I remember being told that I had to 'graduate' to joined writing in year 3 & 4, but after that I went straight back to print. Its 1000% more legible [And whilst normally this would be an exaggeration, for me its not], and for me faster too; I don't have to worry about where each letter joins to, whether I can read what I just wrote, or any other number of things. I just write one word, slightly lift my pencil, and move it to the starting position of the next word.

At the same time, I think typing classes are pointless too.

My school tried to teach me touch typing one time with the fastest typing teacher in the school. I never listened to her, and just typed the way I always have. When she called me up on it, I told her I didn't need to place my fingers in certain positions to know where all the keys are, I knew from experience. To try and prove to me I was wrong, she challenged me to type out some sentence faster than she could. I did. Touch typing may help some people, but IMO a subconscious knowledge of the keyboard not tied to certain positions of your hands is more important.
I normally rest all my fingers on the spacebar as its a nice, relaxed position, and I have no need to place my fingers in certain positions to know where the keys are - if anything trying to do so slows me down. I just move my hands to wherever they need to be. If I'm typing predominantly on one side of the keyboard, my hands will both be more over that side, but thanks to the QWERTY layout they're generally pretty evenly distributed. I never look at the keyboard, and make no mistakes whilst typing unless I let my brain get ahead of my fingers, and start typing 3-4 letters ahead by accident. Typing lessons, IMO, should just be getting people to constantly type at a keyboard and write up large blocks of text, or play lots of keyboard intensive games so that they subconsciously learn the layout of the keyboard, 'cause that's a useful skill to have sometimes.

A suggestion which would have roughly the same result as the current method, but be much, much more labour intensive. The current method teaches the same proficiency (blind typing) faster to one unaccustomed to doing so, and is therefore the better pedagogic method.

Reginald:
I think cursive should carry on (wayward son). Writing in cursive is faster and more efficient than printing when it comes to expressing what's on your mind, and it looks fine so long as you don't have wacky spaz hands. Many a magnum opus has been penned in cursive, and it was used to answer many questions of my childhood without any real problems. Cursive is one of those miracles out of nowhere, and it should be preserved.

Carry on my friend, for you are truly a stellar example of humour and cleverness. Everyone else's opinion is but dust in the wind.
And about cursive:
Can I tell you that bringing it back will only lead to mysteries and mayhem down the road, so we should stop chasing shadows and accept the change, because face it, the past is a lonely street lined by broken windows and what seems like diamonds and pearls to us in the rear view mirror is but the remainder of desperate times and the warm glow that tints our memories might stem from a house on fire.
So we should all remember that we're not alone anymore on this world, for globalisation has brought closer many cultures and civilizations and we all live under one big sky. So let's forget the ghosts of the past and realize that we can't cry anymore.
Because change happens and not accepting that will have us left behind, down the road in a lonely street.

Ok, that was a true tour de force, so have fun.

Handwriting is important, and will continue to be important.

However, the notion that everyone must be taught to write in one specific way was always stupid. I remember how stupidly specific you're asked to be. It's absurd, I can't believe someone didn't realise how stupid it is earlier.

Tuesday Night Fever:

DevilWithaHalo:
Along with cursive, let's make sure the pendulum doesn't swing the other way at the same time. Prohibit and punish 1337 speak. It has no place in an academic setting.

Ugh. Yes, definitely agreed.

I was in high school 2002-2006. One of the English teachers really loved the idea of peer editing for research papers, so I got to see a lot of the things my classmates wrote. Multiple of them regularly used internet slang, abbreviations, and acronyms in their writing. The worst part is that even if I pointed these out as errors, the teacher wouldn't count them as long as she knew what was meant.

Ridiculous.

Man, your teacher was LAZY. Probably already had tenure.

I don't think cursive was EVER useful. "Let's waste time better spent on anything else, and teach you children the equivalent of an alternate FONT for PRINTED writing that no one has used seriously since probably before WW1."

Typing skills are definitely the way to go. I took typing in high school, as well as several times in earlier schooling it was instructed to me. I still can't type very well. I mean I can do it pretty fast and quite accurately, far quicker than I could write the equivalent. Though I am flicking my eyes from the keys to the screen equally the entire time and only using my left middle finger, right thumb, and right index/middle fingers to do it.

I could touch type, but it would involve me hitting backspace way more often. Hitting anything with my pinkies isn't happening. Mine are practically vestigial as I use them for nothing really and they have like no strength whatsoever in them.

I use cursive in my signature, which is sad as I was as a kid under the impression that was required. Nope, in fact its encouraged to not make your signature entirely legible/easily forgeable by having classically perfect and correct penmanship.

If I wanted to sign my name with a Ariel fingering Belle I'd be well within my rights.

Well probably not that, but if I did some random loops and a line or a dot over some of them maybe.

I liked the other universe on Fringe. No one used pens of paper because everyone had their own personal tablet device.

I'm not sure if this was mentioned earlier in the thread, because I didn't read through all the posts, but I found something pretty amusing the other day. I was taking a test, and there was a section where you had to write out that you agreed to not cheat, stuff like that.

The weird part? You had to do it in cursive. Now, I haven't used cursive since fourth grade, so I had to wing it for the most part, just connect the letters. It was extremely annoying, and took me three times as long as it should have.

OT though, I see no problem with getting rid of cursive education. Just make sure the kids know how to sign their names and it should be fine.

It's the whole world, except the place where that actual language originated.

Don't you people get tired of dumbing down everything?
Is it a good idea to encourage people to write like children?

Seriously, if someone can't write joint-up they are widely considered to be fucking stupid. The rest of the world is wrong. Also, joined up, adult handwriting is still popular in Ireland, Scotland, Wales as well as England - you know, those bits of countries that are nearby or stuck to England. How do you people actually write?, block capitals?, little curly letters like kids?, can someone please give me an example of how you guys are using pens these days.

We aren't talking about caligraphy here guys, we're talking about a skill that anyone over the age of 12 should be able to master.

Just about every UK response here is honestly hilarious.

I think this is needed:

image

surg3n:
It's the whole world, except the place where that actual language originated.

Don't you people get tired of dumbing down everything?
Is it a good idea to encourage people to write like children?

Seriously, if someone can't write joint-up they are widely considered to be fucking stupid. The rest of the world is wrong. Also, joined up, adult handwriting is still popular in Ireland, Scotland, Wales as well as England - you know, those bits of countries that are nearby or stuck to England. How do you people actually write?, block capitals?, little curly letters like kids?, can someone please give me an example of how you guys are using pens these days.

We aren't talking about caligraphy here guys, we're talking about a skill that anyone over the age of 12 should be able to master.

But it's a useless skill. Anybody can write cursive, it's simple. The question is, does it provide any real advantage to writing? I don't think so. It's not "dumbing" handwriting down because it's debatable that there even was an advantage to start with. Printed lettering is far more widely used and recognized nowadays.

In the UK, everybody uses cursive, or joined-up handwriting. It's not useless, it's a standard. I can write joined-up about twice as fast as I can write printed/block capitals.

I guess one other factor might be that it's not an actual class in the UK, it's part of English, like by the time we hit secondary school we're expected to write joined-up. If it's a standard in every class, it's a necessity, everyone uses it - then it is difficult to see how people can just abandon it in other countries :D. Hell, I'm still pissed at you guys dropping U's and switching Z's and S's!.

Then laugh, for I am that exactly.
Seriously, I write like a 3 year old, even my signature is different EVERY.SINGLE.TIME.

I recently actually tried to get back into writing cursive, to see if my handwriting was any better that way... It isn't, the only difference is that now it looks like a 3 year old wrote it, and it's unintelligible.

surg3n:
In the UK, everybody uses cursive, or joined-up handwriting. It's not useless, it's a standard. I can write joined-up about twice as fast as I can write printed/block capitals.

I guess one other factor might be that it's not an actual class in the UK, it's part of English, like by the time we hit secondary school we're expected to write joined-up. If it's a standard in every class, it's a necessity, everyone uses it - then it is difficult to see how people can just abandon it in other countries :D. Hell, I'm still pissed at you guys dropping U's and switching Z's and S's!.

Funny that a few people from the UK have said they hardly use "joined writing" or cursive as we call it in the states. Had no idea you spoke for the entirety of the UK. ALL HAIL THE KING

What's necessary is some basic, legible writing ability. If that's print, fine. If it's cursive, fine. But teaching one, then teaching the other on top of it is a complete waste of time. That time could be far better utilized learning to type, which is what I encounter 95% of the time. The other 5% of the time, I write much faster in simple print (I don't pick my pencil/pen up completely so I do get some joining lines, but it's not true cursive). Whatever works for you. But it's superfluous to require learning both, especially when once you reach adulthood, you're only ever going to use one or the other on the increasingly rare occasions that you do have to write something by hand.

DugMachine:

surg3n:
In the UK, everybody uses cursive, or joined-up handwriting. It's not useless, it's a standard. I can write joined-up about twice as fast as I can write printed/block capitals.

I guess one other factor might be that it's not an actual class in the UK, it's part of English, like by the time we hit secondary school we're expected to write joined-up. If it's a standard in every class, it's a necessity, everyone uses it - then it is difficult to see how people can just abandon it in other countries :D. Hell, I'm still pissed at you guys dropping U's and switching Z's and S's!.

Funny that a few people from the UK have said they hardly use "joined writing" or cursive as we call it in the states. Had no idea you spoke for the entirety of the UK. ALL HAIL THE KING

Well he damn well does speak for a large majority of the UK. Cursive writing as it is called in the States is just called writing here - virtually everyone writes like that and those who don't are either very young children or possibly have some kind of brain impairment. I must admit i didn't actually know until this thread that you guys across the atlantic have such a problem with joining your letters up - it must take you forever to make notes especially in lectures and whatnot where you have to get a lot down quickly.

Ironside:
I must admit i didn't actually know until this thread that you guys across the atlantic have such a problem with joining your letters up - it must take you forever to make notes especially in lectures and whatnot where you have to get a lot down quickly.

You know what's true for you isn't true for the whole world, right? You know how you've been writing your letters joined for your entire life, and so it would be much slower for you to write them separated? Well some of us have been writing our letters separate for our entire lives, and so it would be much slower for us to write them joined. I could find fast and slow writers of both styles of writing in virtually any country which uses the Latin alphabet. There is no "fast" or "slow" style of writing, it's the person. Perspective.

Syzygy23:
Man, your teacher was LAZY. Probably already had tenure.

Incredibly lazy. The sad thing is that most of my high school's teachers were pretty bad, because the school only hired ones that were fresh out of college since they didn't have to be paid as much.

There were some really good ones, sure. But most of them... ugh. From my understanding, my school's turn-over rate for teachers even today is sickening. Most only seem to stay for a year or so before they quit or are replaced. It's not really an environment that promotes anything beyond laziness and resentment from the teachers.

I actually wanted to be a teacher at one point, until I saw how my school district treated them. It completely killed all desire to follow that path.

Efficient enough at both, doesn't suck to be me!
But yeah, cursive is something that's not really necessary anymore. Maybe you can learn to write your name in that style, but anything else is not needed. Typing skills are more prevalent and much more important in today's society.

Besides signing my name in cursive, I really don't use it for anything. In fact I can't even remember how the entire alphabet is suppose to look. In 4th grade my teacher was pretty draconian about it and made us write everything in cursive, but from 5th grade onwards it's been either print or typed.

Meh, cursive takes a lot out of my hands. I cannot write in cursive for very long before they start to cramp up.

Although, as an engineer I SHOULD be using....I dunno what they call it....engineering writing? Not as popular as it used to be. Basically you write all your letters like capital letters, but the lower case letters are smaller. It is suppose to eliminate terrible hand writing.

Scarim Coral:
I will laugh at the day when people are so used to computer typing for written work that when in some strange situation, they are force to use cursive writing, their hand writing will be awful!

While I do agree that cursive are being less these days but I do feel they hold some important heritage wise.

Hell, my handwriting is horrible, and I had 3 years of learning cursive and 4 years of being forced to use it.

I dont even think typing is all the important now and days.

Ironside:

Well he damn well does speak for a large majority of the UK. Cursive writing as it is called in the States is just called writing here - virtually everyone writes like that and those who don't are either very young children or possibly have some kind of brain impairment. I must admit i didn't actually know until this thread that you guys across the atlantic have such a problem with joining your letters up - it must take you forever to make notes especially in lectures and whatnot where you have to get a lot down quickly.

I don't get how you're not seeing this.

-Write in joined lettering almost your whole life = fast at said joined letters

-Write in print almost your whole life = fast at print

And people claim the states are in their own little world and that the world revolves around them *eye roll*.

Call me when they decide not to teach evolution (A subject that actually matters.)

replacing a less useful skill for a more useful one.

about time a school some where started thinking ahead

It boggles my mind that cursive or joined writing is still the standard in most schools.

Printing is simply clearer and neater. Most people who write joined up should have pens taken away from them, for good. I can read about 20% of the joined writing I come across. It's inefficient and looks appalling in most cases.

Leave fancy penmanship to trained calligraphers and for day to day situations, print your fucking writing.

We don't exactly use "cursive" per say here in the UK, but we are encouraged to do "joined up" neat-ish hand writing from a young age at school, so it's just sort of the normal way for people to write, our normal hand writing is likely what America would consider cursive. It just seems more efficient than block writing, it flows, for want of a better word.

Personally though, my hand writing is atrocious, mainly because well... I barely ever write anything down anymore, I do tons of typing on the PC, and writing odd notes down on my phone is easier than having to carry around pieces of paper, as I'm less likely to misplace my phone.

Cavan:
-Snip-

Yeah sorry, but I'm also from England and we do have cursive (Myself being 19) we just don't call it that by name, y'know those years in primary school where you have to practice joined up writing, those terrible horrible years for people like me who cannot write neatly in cursive and then get told off because my writing isn't legible? We are taught it, and frankly it was one of the biggest waste of times I've ever had, and again I'm 19. Once I hit essay writing level, it was almost always typed, or I wrote faster in print by that point because it was easier for other people to read, and thus easier to mark.

So yeah.. I got no idea where you're coming from. If people want to write/use cursive, fine, I do occasionally use it without thinking, I just mix it into usual writing in a mish mash of what is fastest. But teaching it? Completely pointless, that time would be better spent teaching kids how to read, or hell just write normally.

elvor0:
-Snip-

Most people in the UK don't actually write like that though, for the rest, please see above.

Ironside:

Well he damn well does speak for a large majority of the UK. Cursive writing as it is called in the States is just called writing here - virtually everyone writes like that and those who don't are either very young children or possibly have some kind of brain impairment. I must admit i didn't actually know until this thread that you guys across the atlantic have such a problem with joining your letters up - it must take you forever to make notes especially in lectures and whatnot where you have to get a lot down quickly.

Jesus, I thought that the US was meant to be the ignorant country. Please see above.

Edit: Looking at the replies from people claiming to be from the UK/England I feel like I need to apologise for the amount of monumental dumb asses posting in this thread. Sorry about that folks. God save the queen.

I never thought a thread about a particular style of writing would be so filled with drama.

OT: here in Brazil I was taught cursive as simply "writing", but I basically dropped cursive writing after the technical drawing courses I had to do in university (engineering). I don't know if you'd call it "engineering lettering" or print, but I can write in this style almost as fast as in cursive, and the end result is much easier to read and better-looking. Although I only very rarely need to write, I like to write first drafts or outlines on paper, and then do the rest of the writing on a computer.

From my experience many people my age here have also abandoned the use of cursive writing, though basically everyone is capable of writing and reading it. I don't think it's terribly important, really.

BiscuitTrouser:
Here in the UK "cursive" is normal.

Cavan:
You know what we call cursive writing in England? Writing(yes I know this is quite a douchey thing to say). I genuinely did not know the word 'cursive' until I spoke to Americans many years later. I cannot comment on how younger people who are in the early stages of school now are being taught, but I have a friend who is 17 and for everybody he is around it is considered a basic form of writing that is the norm.

Really? Everyone I know writes in print or block capitals and even then, only in the extremely rare instances that they're not typing. I live in Manchester and am in my early 20s, for reference.

I use cursive all the time, but I don't think that it's a shame to drop it from schools, as long as it's being replaced by useful things (see also: NOT creationism).

TheKasp:
No, it is not 'just' America, it is nearly whe whole fucking world (except England where most of the people still can't write cursive according to this thread).

"Still" can't write cursive?

No, not "Still" can't write it.

Many schools appear not to bother with it any more. It appears to be something that has kinda died out in our education system in certain schools. It's certainly not a skill that's required.

Much like Latin, it's pretty much a waste of time.

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