Why is cheating bad?

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Traditionally a "test" is a skill check to see if youcan actually do what they're about to tell people you can do.

Today, most tests are mere memorization checks and I don't really see the harm in cheating during those.

wombat_of_war:
because only captan kirk can cheat and get away with it and you arent captain kirk

Technically he didn't cheat. There was nothing in the rules that said he couldn't rewire the no win situation.

OT: cheating has an effect on everyone around you. The classmates who have worked hard and studied, your parents who are working to raise you properly, any siblings who might look up to you. Most importantly it affects the cheater as well.

You are faking your accomplishments, you are lying about your capabilities. None of that is ever acceptable. Some people are smarter then others, some are more athletic. That doesn't make it right or even rational to cheat in order to level the playing field. If you aren't as smart, study harder or find a subject you are better at. If you aren't as strong then change your training regiment or find a sport/athletic feet you are better at. There is no excuse for cheating.

Life isn't fair, thus murder is justified. Life isn't fair thus theft is justified.

If you're going to whine about life not being fair thus you shouldn't have to play by the rules you are a hypocrite. If you cheat your way into law school then a honest person will lose his spot because someone chose to cheat. Life isn't fair, whining about the fact then promoting things to get more unfair seems contradictory.

If you're not smart or dedicated enough to get into law school without cheating then you're most likely not smart or dedicated enough to do well at it anyway.

It depends on what it is.
If it's something that you need to know for your job, like say medical school for a doctor, then it's bad. If, on the other hand, it's something you won't use in your profession, then I see nothing wrong with it.

Champthrax:

So, can anyone tell me why cheating is bad? One of the most common things I hear is that it is not fair to other people. But you know what else isn't fair, that other people were born with more brains, or more muscle. This gives them an innate advantage,

For starters you assume that the person cheating is the one born with an innate disadvantage. This is true at best half of the time. But even if they are naturally less skilled, that's what many of these tests are designed to detect. The point of any test is to measure someone's abilities, whether those abilities are natural or learned is often irrelevant. Anyone who thinks that tests are supposed to be purely a measure of how hard you worked are living in a dreamworld.

Champthrax:

and would a cheater not simply be using their gift, cunning, to give themselves an advantage?

Unless the test is supposed to measure how cunning you are, or how good you are at cheating, I don't see how this matters. Besides, cheating doesn't always require some talent to pull off. Sometimes you just have to be lucky, or willing.

Champthrax:

From an individualist standpoint, we try to do what is best for ourselves. So for example, If cheating on the LSAT would get you into law school, why should you flip burgers rather than go to law school just because your competition either has more intellect or drive.

Um, because the competition has more intellect or drive than you? Therefore they'd do a better job than you would and society as a whole would benefit.
If you take up the position that nobodies needs matter except your own then morality is already completely out the window. And if everyone thought this way the world would collapse. That's why rules exist to begin with. There's nothing wrong with working to further your own ends as long as you do so within the established boundaries that society has created to protect us from one another.

Champthrax:

Of course, cheating will probably catch up to you at some point, and getting caught is a major deterrent, but how is cheating unfair when life itself is not fair?

That's like trying to justify beating someone up by saying that they already had prior injuries. Life may be somewhat unfair but cheating just makes it a whole lot worse.

i want the OP to be first in line to see the doctor who cheated on all his / her exams.

Binnsyboy:

sky14kemea:
I like to think it depends what you cheat on. 8D

I'm notorious with my friends for, let's say, "Tipping the balance" when we play card games or board games. (Which basicaly means yes, I'll cheat if I see an opportunity to do so).

See, my stance on this is that if you're going to cheat at a game, why bother playing at all?

Also, since I now know this, I got my eye on you come Escapism UK =_=

I don't cheat at all of them.

And that's a good idea. I'll be watching you too. o_o

the fact that your only argument is, "its unfair that i fail a test just because i dont have the skill of knowledge that is being tested," says far more than i ever could

but if i were to give it a shot i suppose my answer would be...George W. Bush

Moderated:
It depends on what it is.
If it's something that you need to know for your job, like say medical school for a doctor, then it's bad. If, on the other hand, it's something you won't use in your profession, then I see nothing wrong with it.

If it has nothing to do with your profession, then why are you cheating to be perceived as better than you actually are at it?

Captcha: trust me

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Cheats are bad because they give an unfair advantage to you, if everyone cheats then that is fair. That rarely happens though.

I never much cared for the saying "Life isn't fair."

Sure, it's not entirely, but it's usually an excuse to be unfair to someone.

As I see it, barring natural disasters and incredibly bad luck and the like, life tends to be as fair as you and the others around you make it.

As well to say "Life isn't kind" and then hit someone in the face simply to attempt to make a quite unrelated point. Oh, sure sure, it's true in many sense, life tends to be unkind, particularly certain aspects. But attempting to deliberately create a self-fulfilling prophecy based purely on the purposeful detriment to others is, for lack of a better term coming to my head at the moment, a real dick move. It hardly serves as justification for one's actions, which each person is both responsible and accountable for.

A better, albeit longer, saying would be something like "Life isn't always fair, but everything in our control we have the power to make fair." You can make fair that which is even mostly within your control, so sitting about making excuses for why you're needlessly being a douchebag is hardly reasonable in any sense. Life isn't fair, but the difference between the person making the excuse and life itself tends to be a rather broad gap, so better to be truthful and say "I'm not fair", at which point the speaker will hopefully take a solid blow to the chin while someone records it and I can watch gleefully. The more control a person has over a situation, the more he is accountable for how that situation plays out.

Right, cheating... Unfair advantage, totally within the control of those involved, and therefor totally subject to determination of fairness from many standpoints and to be punished according to in authority whose jurisdiction the act falls under.

It's against the rules and its dishonest. Without going into morality and long winded discussions of right and wrong better left to philosophy majors, It's portraying yourself in an untrue light and although you can get away with it, it's morally wrong, and it will destroy trust immediately when exposed. Never underestimate the importance of trust, it is literally the only thing keeping real people from acting like the dicks they are on the internet, now that's a powerful force.

I believe a wise man once said: "Screw the rules, I have money!"

That would probably be my second favorite quote, right after one I live my life by: "Always cheat, always win. The only unfair battle is one that you lose."

As in all things however, I believe context is important. There's a difference between cheating a system, rigid, and entirely rule-based for the a general principle-keeping task, and cheating actual people. The ones you shouldn't cheat are the ones you can make cry. (unless you manage to make a machine cry, in which case you are EPIC.)

Cheating on something meaningless like the SAT or whatever test you had to take is fine in my opinion. It measures nothing other then your ability to take a meaningless test.

Ever been graded on a curve? It's brutal, but fair.

Ever been graded on a curve with people who admit to cheating? Related: Do you know what it feels like to have the urge to set someone on fire?

There is only one form of cheating which is okay:
Cheat Codes!
I hope you realize what this means...If you break the matrix and find cheat codes for it, you are completely allowed to do whatever you want. Go nuts!

In general I don't think cheating is alright. However had it not been more work than actually studying I wouldn't have thought twice about cheating my way through subjects in high school I know I'd never actually care about or use in order to increase the chance of getting accepted into a desired education (not sure how grading works exactly elsewhere, but in Denmark grades in different subjects are given as numbers, and college level education then requires a few specific subjects passed(or rarely a certain grade), and a given average of all your grades in all the subjects you had, so completely unrelated subjects count as well).

Champthrax:

Of course, cheating will probably catch up to you at some point, and getting caught is a major deterrent, but how is cheating unfair when life itself is not fair?

Cheating isn't considered wrong because it's "unfair". It's wrong because it undermines the fundamental purpose of whatever it was you attempted.

When you attend college for example, you could cheat your way through. In some majors, that's probably sufficient but if you chose to study a field where the things you learn are important, cheating results in nothing less than wasting your own time. One learns math or they don't - if you have a job that requires you know such things, having cheated to earn a piece of paper that says you know is no more significant than paper.

In a game on the other hand it's even more obvious. Games are nothing more than closed systems of arbitrary rules. To win through bypassing such rules is meaningless because the rules are the game.

Yes, some things are not fair. Certain constructs of rules are going to cater to certain people. If you attempt to compensate for this deficiency by going outside the rules, at the very best all you've done is create a new construct. When you cheat at a game and manage to win (by whatever definition you subscribe to), all you've done is win at a game that the other people aren't playing. The same can be said of life itself.

sinsfire:

Technically he didn't cheat. There was nothing in the rules that said he couldn't rewire the no win situation.

Actually, he did cheat. The simulation was predicated upon a system of rules. He changed that system of rules so that victory was possible. As such, while it is perfectly possible to assert that he did not cheat within the simulation, by altering the simulation he was, at the very least in violation of various ethical standards of his academy and likely in direct violation of various rules that govern the use of said simulation.

So, while he might not have cheated at the game, he certainly did at the metagame. But, then, that isn't to say that his violation was wrong. He demonstrated lateral thinking that made it possible to solve an otherwise unsolvable crisis.

madwarper:
Would you be OK that the auto mechanic who is about to fix your breaks to have "cheated" their way to get their certification?
Would you be OK that the doctor who is about to operate on you to have "cheated" their way through medical school?
Would you be OK that the lawyer who is about to represent you had to have "cheated" their way through the bar exam?

I mean, you're OK with cheating... Right?

It's a shame that your breaks failed and you get into a huge crash which causes your appendix to rupture.
It's also a shame that instead of removing your appendix, you were castrated instead.
It's still a shame that your easy malpractice lawsuit for millions was thrown out of court, leaving you poor and penniless.

Why would I care if someone is capable of memorising information, as long as they know how to find and apply information? For example, I would hope that a doctor who is treating me would research the latest medication and treatment techniques rather than rely on information he memorised in uni.

manic_depressive13:

madwarper:
Would you be OK that the auto mechanic who is about to fix your breaks to have "cheated" their way to get their certification?
Would you be OK that the doctor who is about to operate on you to have "cheated" their way through medical school?
Would you be OK that the lawyer who is about to represent you had to have "cheated" their way through the bar exam?

I mean, you're OK with cheating... Right?

It's a shame that your breaks failed and you get into a huge crash which causes your appendix to rupture.
It's also a shame that instead of removing your appendix, you were castrated instead.
It's still a shame that your easy malpractice lawsuit for millions was thrown out of court, leaving you poor and penniless.

Why would I care if someone is capable of memorising information, as long as they know how to find and apply information? For example, I would hope that a doctor who is treating me would research the latest medication and treatment techniques rather than rely on information he memorised in uni.

because all that person has is answers to the test all they have to do is memorize them (ACCCBDAAA).
The fact that you score well on a test just shows that you are able to apply the knowledge you learn to a series of random questions that are a possibility of running into again down the road. (ie you learned basic addition and took the test and you had to use it again later on in school/work/life)

That's a very Ayn Rand-y argument to make...

I suppose you could say that,
if it doesn't get you in trouble,
if it doesn't hurt you in the long run,
if you feel it puts you in a better position in life,
if it doesn't hurt your conscience,
there is nothing wrong with cheating.

That would be the idealistic, Ayn Rand answer.

But we all know better, of course, because we have emotions and such, and live with a social understanding that implies a certain dignity in life, and to break said behavior will always hurt your credibility and image, and possibly much more.

The answer I give, therefore, is that it hurts those around you in breaking the implicit social boundaries that exist (where applicable), and the risk is generally not worth it, as the price of capture is often far steeper than the rewards of success and the paranoia of potential capture.

Well I'll give two examples in two different situations.

The test. Well if you can cheat and just write the answers in great, but did you learn it, what if it's math, can you do the formula on your own?

The economy. Cheaters got us in this mess, and stupidly were gona get them to try and get us out. I hope the need to save ones own ass will help them succeed.

Both are wrong, in the first instance it's not worth it to cheat if it's something your going to be using down the road.

The second, well, look where it got us.

Tsaba:

because all that person has is answers to the test all they have to do is memorize them (ACCCBDAAA).
The fact that you score well on a test just shows that you are able to apply the knowledge you learn to a series of random questions that are a possibility of running into again down the road. (ie you learned basic addition and took the test and you had to use it again later on in school/work/life)

No one actually cheats like that though. No one has multiple choice tests at uni level. Generally 'cheating' involves bringing in notes that you've written, and I don't see an issue with that, seeing as most people write their own notes, or at the very least have to read through the notes in order to copy the answers, and that's learning.

manic_depressive13:

Tsaba:
answers to test

notes

while I agree, knowing where to locate information is a great thing, if tests are random like they are supposed to be...... then notes won't make a difference.

Well for one it gives somebody an unfair advantage, BUT the argument that some people already have advantages doesn't hold up to it. Somebody may be born better muscular, intellectual, or otherwise to someone else; but if that someone else had the means to be better than everyone by one little flaw or one little thing they used, it wouldn't show their true skill.

I caught a girl sitting near by texting the answers back and forth with someone else during a religion test, and to boot it was an incredibly easy test. I ratted her out in a heart beat.

Champthrax:
(by cheating I mean not playing by the rules: IE having answers to a test)

Now I will preface this by saying I do not agree that cheating is right, I just want to play devils advocate

So, can anyone tell me why cheating is bad? One of the most common things I hear is that it is not fair to other people. But you know what else isn't fair, that other people were born with more brains, or more muscle. This gives them an innate advantage, and would a cheater not simply be using their gift, cunning, to give themselves an advantage?

From an individualist standpoint, we try to do what is best for ourselves. So for example, If cheating on the LSAT would get you into law school, why should you flip burgers rather than go to law school just because your competition either has more intellect or drive.

Of course, cheating will probably catch up to you at some point, and getting caught is a major deterrent, but how is cheating unfair when life itself is not fair?

good that you clarified what you mean by cheating, because its such a broad term.
Cheating is bad because:
1. It incorrectly evaluates you. You feel well evaluated when in fact you are not knowledgeable. repeated this will lead to you feling overconfident while knowing nothing and yet still being valued high. this will lead to misconceptions about you for you and others, that can lead to a lot of bad situations. real world example: i knew a girl that used to cheat on everything. she eventually got a specialist position in some firm, but couldnt do the job because she didnt knew anything, not even the basic common sense things. that lead to a lot of trouble for her and the company.
2. It is an unfair advantage. while others have to study, you cheat. this leads to your evaluation being high, which may lead to not having to pay for your studies and other bounties that you did not deserve, while depriving people that deserve it.
3. It also bad because it discourages learning, and knowledge is very important, and anything discouraging knowledge is bad. yes, even the trivial knowledge that you think youll never use. i used to despise learning matrix calculations (no not the movie, the mathematical matrices). turns out, my work involves them now. who would have though. had i cheated, id be in a very bad position now.

Life is not fair, but the only way to change the world is to start with yourself. if you cheat, why do you expect others not to cheat you?

Noone is born with more muscle or intelligence (well, technically, more muscle mass and tendency to grow can be born into, but that does not mean squat in our case). it is all am atter of determination. if you want to learn you will. if you dont, dont complain that others want to. For the power of will you can watch the new chinese made Jet Lee movie (its filled with propaganda but the determination message is well shown). Lazyness is something you create yourself, not some fate or god.

Id liek to seperate cheating from consulting with a guy sitting next to you. that is not cheating. here in real life we call that cooperation.

No one actually cheats like that though. No one has multiple choice tests at uni level. Generally 'cheating' involves bringing in notes that you've written, and I don't see an issue with that, seeing as most people write their own notes, or at the very least have to read through the notes in order to copy the answers, and that's learning.

have you ever been to uni? like half the tests there are multiple choices, i should know, i been studying for 5 years.
if you bring the notes that you wrote up and read through carefully - thats is fine. if you bring a photocopied notes from your friend because you couldnt be bothered to get to class that day (out of alzyness, things like illness is understandable) and havent even read them once to see what was there and expect to copy the answers during the test - bad.

I would say it would depend on what you're cheating on exactly. I really feel that the education system in it's current state, is flawed and outdated.

Someone cheats on math tests by jotting down the formulas somewhere then he sneaks them in, I would have a time calling that cheating, when it comes to mathematics, isn't it more about the execution of using the formulas rather than remembering the formulas?

But when someone cheats in a way that they don't have to put as much effort into a test, then I would say that is lazy and(depending on the what the test is for exactly) dangerous.

Well, the main problem with the education system currently is that it teaches nothing about what it actually means to "learn" something. Memorizing loads of data is useful for trivia, but, uh, yeah that's about it.

Still, cheating is...

Well, it kind of takes away the self-evaluation aspect of any kind of challenge.

It is bad because it helps no one.

So you cheat and get into Law School. Then what.
Most likely you either fail all your exams there - because you don't know anything - or you cheat and pass. You get out this time.

Now, you've got a job. You become an assistant to a higher ranking lawyer to learn how things work, and for them to see if you're worth keeping. At this point, you're likely screwed. Thanks to your cheating, you are unable to provide any useful advice, and can only listen to what the others say. At this point, you're likely fired because your incompetent. Best case they keep you on as an assistant because you're dedicated enough to be helpful with the administrative side, if not the actual law side. Now you've got a job, but its not where you'd like to be.

This will repeat itself for all professions. No matter what you choose to go into, you're going to end up failing at it because you don't understand what's going on. You will end up flipping burgers anyway, you just wasted your own and other people's time on the way there.

In the short term, it will get you through a test. In the long term, it inhibits your abilities in future tests and trials. This does catch up with you, and you take the fall for it, as well as those you deceived in one way or other.

randomsix:

Moderated:
It depends on what it is.
If it's something that you need to know for your job, like say medical school for a doctor, then it's bad. If, on the other hand, it's something you won't use in your profession, then I see nothing wrong with it.

If it has nothing to do with your profession, then why are you cheating to be perceived as better than you actually are at it?

Captcha: trust me

So you can get into better colleges?

144:
That's a very Ayn Rand-y argument to make...

I suppose you could say that,
if it doesn't get you in trouble,
if it doesn't hurt you in the long run,
if you feel it puts you in a better position in life,
if it doesn't hurt your conscience,
there is nothing wrong with cheating.

That would be the idealistic, Ayn Rand answer.

Nope. Cheating is an act of fraud, which violates Rand's ethical code.

Champthrax:
But you know what else isn't fair, that other people were born with more brains, or more muscle. This gives them an innate advantage, and would a cheater not simply be using their gift, cunning, to give themselves an advantage?

Id cry everyday that other people get to be stronger than me by birth. Until i remember those stronger people are the firemen, policemen and soldiers who use that strength to do things in society that i just couldnt no matter how hard i cheated. Im gorram happy that these "Unfair strong people" passed and the weak cheaters failed when they successfully kick down the door to a burning building and save a family instead of failing miserably.

Im fucking VERY happy that the unfairly smart people became the doctors that saved my father from dying of cancer. Im VERY happy life unfairly gave them intelligence that I or others may lack. I applaud that unfairness. Im so happy about it i could cry. If your strength is cunning take a job that benefits society BY being cunning. Thats all you deserve. Othrewise move aside so those born with the advantages, or who earn them, can do the jobs they are best suited for and create a better society.

If youre happy with the unfair smart people being denied jobs expect lower quality of research and doctors. Just sayin. And expect weaker slower firemen. Neither of which i want.

Captcha: I like people

Damn right i do.

Because it's just unfair for everyone. Cheating on a test is just unfair to the others who studied. Fucking cheaters.

And cheating on your woman is stupid too. If I wanted to fuck some other broad, I'd ask my girlfriend first! And then she'd either say yes or no. Simple as that.

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