Why is cheating bad?

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lets ignore the whole "it is unfair for the people who actually worked" aspect of cheating. People hammered that home already and it is pretty solid a point.
Even ignoring the social aspect of it, cheating is still wrong. It is an admittance that you are either too dumb, too lazy or too pathetic to actually learn what you need to and have to work around it.

Now, I will add that when it comes to learning, memorization is not as important as understanding relations between things. This is why I personally wouldn't consider it cheating if my doctor didn't know all the names of the various bacteria I might have, but did understand who they would affect me and therefore could determine what was wrong with me (even if he had to consult a medical dictionary to find the exact name of the damn thing first).

The whole point of a test is to TEST what you know. I will grant that how things are tested and what is tested for can be lacking. The system is not perfect, sure. But the idea of cheating is saying that even for the time it would take to pass the test, you couldn't learn it. That, on a personal level, is admitting failure.

It's quite obvious. You have to pass exams to prove you know the material. If you need to cheat, you don't know the material, and therefore shouldn't go to law school yet or whatever.

You don't need to be naturally smarter to pass. Just keep your nose to the grindstone and study hard. If you really wanted to get into law school, you would.

Cheating is legitimate as any other form of survival tool.

Sure, you don't have to like it, or people who do it.

But calling it as being inherently bad is ignant.

Life isn't fair. If a person isn't born smart enough (Jee, I wonder why mentally handicapped people exist. It's either circumstance or genetics) or strong enough (genetics, circumstance again) it's funny how people who have the ability to live without the need to cheat always bash on the cheaters. Sure, they might have the ability, but not everyone does. Some just need to cheat to survive. They're not dumb enough to qualify as retarded (and live off government, or other), and they're not strong enough to do good paying physical labour, etc. So instead of having a shit fucking job and life working as a janitor, they do what they can to live happily just like everyone else with their little talents.

Nothing is wrong, nothing is right. You're path, no matter what it is, is meaningless in the end. Make the most of it, fuck the rest.

Mick Golden Blood:
Cheating is legitimate as any other form of survival tool.

Sure, you don't have to like it, or people who do it.

But calling it as being inherently bad is ignant.

Life isn't fair. If a person isn't born smart enough (Jee, I wonder why mentally handicapped people exist. It's either circumstance or genetics) or strong enough (genetics, circumstance again) it's funny how people who have the ability to live without the need to cheat always bash on the cheaters. Sure, they might have the ability, but not everyone does. Some just need to cheat to survive. They're not dumb enough to qualify as retarded (and live off government, or other), and they're not strong enough to do good paying physical labour, etc. So instead of having a shit fucking job and life working as a janitor, they do what they can to live happily just like everyone else with their little talents.

Nothing is wrong, nothing is right. You're path, no matter what it is, is meaningless in the end. Make the most of it, fuck the rest.

Ah yes the "Life's not fair" defense. Because pretending you actually know something you don't (this being cheating on a test, forging documents on a resume, etc.) is perfectly justifiable so long as bad things happened to you previously. I mean it must also mean you can break laws to (in some cases, cheating actually is) because, as you said, it is meaninglessly in the end so screw it, lets make even more unfair and try to feebly justify selfish actions.

Honestly, is this all you have? No one is saying people have to live in squalor if they lack natural talents. Motivation, determination, hard work... these things are removed from talent and can more then make up for lack of natural talent a lot of the time. Cheating, blatantly admiting to yourself and everyone else that you don't know the subject or you aren't qualified for the position should kinda tell you that you aren't qualified. No one is entitled to a good job or to not be a janitor, that is the flaw here. You whine about life not being fair yet you base your conclusion on a concept that people are entitled to some degree of fair return. That is incorrect.

Because when you cheat on a test, you claim to have credentials and abilities you don't actually have. In high school, this means that colleges may be making an unsafe investment by accepting you without knowing it, since much of their ranking and therefore how much they can charge is dependent on how many students graduate.

In college and beyond, it means that employers are potentially hiring an unqualified employee. If you're applying for a job as an accountant, and you cheated your way through college, there's no proof that you're qualified for that position. The company risks putting all of its money in the hands of an unscrupulous incompetent.

Finally, you really are setting yourself up to fail in the long run when you cheat because if you have to cheat it means you don't know the material.

Although, if you're in college and it's a general education class that isn't at all necessary for your degree, go nuts if you ask me. I, for instance, am in engineering school and who CARES if I don't know the technical difference between classical and romantic music? I don't cheat personally because I would get in big trouble if I was caught, but sometimes it is extremely tempting.

Mick Golden Blood:
Cheating is legitimate as any other form of survival tool.

Sure, you don't have to like it, or people who do it.

But calling it as being inherently bad is ignant.

Life isn't fair. If a person isn't born smart enough (Jee, I wonder why mentally handicapped people exist. It's either circumstance or genetics) or strong enough (genetics, circumstance again) it's funny how people who have the ability to live without the need to cheat always bash on the cheaters. Sure, they might have the ability, but not everyone does. Some just need to cheat to survive. They're not dumb enough to qualify as retarded (and live off government, or other), and they're not strong enough to do good paying physical labour, etc. So instead of having a shit fucking job and life working as a janitor, they do what they can to live happily just like everyone else with their little talents.

Nothing is wrong, nothing is right. You're path, no matter what it is, is meaningless in the end. Make the most of it, fuck the rest.

This isn't about natural intelligence or natural strength though; it's about understanding and skills. Anyone can become a Doctor or a Lawyer if they try hard enough. Life isn't fair for many reasons, including people becoming doctors and lawyers when they aren't qualified.

Your LSAT example falls flat on its butt. You give the alternative of flipping burgers if you fail which can be avoided if you cheat. To sum it up, if you can't pass a simple freaking test that you didn't have the heart, motivation, brains, time, etc. to study for you are simply not cut out for the job in the first place. If you can't do the job right then you shouldn't do it at all.

You know cheating on a high school test is understandable because you don't have enough mental faculties to honestly know what cheating means. When you get to college you learn the almighty corny phrase "when you cheat, you cheat yourself out of your education only" as corny as it sounds, it isn't any less true. What are you more worried about in the end? A high number on a piece of freaking paper, or the fact that you don't have the necessary knowledge behind said number. That importance is sadly up to each individual person to determine.

If you're failing at something that requires cheating as a solution, believe me, most of the time it isn't because life gave you a shitty hand, it's because you somehow screwed up and are looking for an excuse remedy your blunder ala cheating. You probably don't want a doctor that cheated through medical school doing your kids brain surgery as a crude example.

Apologize for the rant in advance, but the LSAT example got under my skin for some reason.

You cheat to get into law school. Your incompetence means that a guilty man walks free. That guy goes and kills a girl. Something like that, though not as extreme probably, happens with whatever field you cheat for.

So what if it makes sense for YOU. Your interest alone is very, very rarely in line with any view of morality. Cheating undermines an entire system , making immorality more profitable then merit. When you stop rewarding merit, everything starts to suck, and eventually, it starts sucking for everyone, including the cheaters. In economist terms, cheating may be profitable, but it has huge externalities.

I agree that the ability to cheat is of some merit, but have to disprove of the practice as it has lead you down a slope wherein a your ethics and morals become skewed. You may use made up phrases like

Champthrax:
individualist standpoint

but I hope readers will understand that your whole post is based around selfishness - the inability or indifference for the interests and others. The excuses you try to make are based off of inherently incorrect presumptions and expectations and dealt with in inappropriate way.

I'm going to soften the abrupt ending with a fun fact.
image

Champthrax:
Snip

Cheating in real life is bad for the same reason it's bad in a game: any victory you achieve through cheating is completely hollow because you didn't earn it yourself. While in a game, using cheats simply removes any challenge from the game, and without challenge a game loses its purpose. But cheating in life actually has consequences. You cheat to get into law school, you use knowledge that is not your own to pass the entrance exam. Alright, now you're in law school...what now?

Well, you either have to make up for all the knowledge you DIDN'T have to begin with by studying your ass off, or you just keep on cheating your way through. Assuming you don't get caught and kicked the fuck out, you'll end up graduating with a law degree and go on to become a lawyer...what now?

Well you'll either go on to be one of the shittiest lawyers ever since in truth you have no idea what the hell you're doing because your degree was gained via knowledge that you didn't truly know, or you'll just stick with what got you through law school: your "cunning", and try to cheat the system to win your cases. You'll then most likely get caught, disbarred, and end up flipping burgers anyways. Why? Because you didn't get to where you were on your own, you used the talents of other people to get you there. When there's no one left to cheat off of, you're left with nothing but a stupid look on your face because, again, you have no idea what you were doing...where as had you taken the time and effort to actually study for the entrance exam and study your way through law school, you WOULD know what you were doing, and could therefor go on to make a career as a lawyer for yourself.

This applies for pretty much everything. Would you have much confidence in an engineer that cheated his way through school? Or an architect? Or an accountant? Another thing to keep in mind is that cheating inherently implies dishonesty, and most people don't like working with dishonest people.

But beyond all that, you said it yourself in your OP: life isn't fair. If you're not smart enough to get into law school on your own, guess what? You probably shouldn't aspire to be a lawyer. Life isn't fair and it's not meant to be fair. Using cheating as an attempt to balance things out to make it "fair" for you makes it "unfair" for others that DID put the time and effort into studying and such. So why is the "fairness" of your life more important than the "fairness" of the lives of the people you cheat off of? What makes you so important? FUCK YOU YOU DAMN CHEATING BASTARD! :P Just kidding with that last bit, just kidding, but yeah, there's plenty of reasons why cheating is bad. :3

What's fair in life is doing the best you can with what you've got, not doing the best you can with what the person beside you has.

Sorry, but no one from a western country should say "life is not fair". We have all the possibilities here. If you can't make yourself happy, you're just too lazy. That's not something you are born with.

wombat_of_war:
because only captan kirk can cheat and get away with it and you aren't captain kirk

though, in that situation, he really WAS qualified, he was just philosophically opposed to the conductors of the test, which was designed to force them to handle a truth that wasn't necessarily true (i.e, you cant always win. sometimes, you just cant get everyone out, and trying will just get everyone killed, rather than saving the few you could)

Because intellect and drive are innate advantages that help someone in being a lawyer. The ability to cheat isn't necessarily helpful in being a lawyer, it is for passing tests. But if the endgame is being a lawyer, intellect and drive will have helped, but cheating will not.

Its not the strongest or smartest who survives, but those who are most willing and able to adapt.

Because if you cheat as an engineer, PEOPLE WILL DIE.

Champthrax:
(by cheating I mean not playing by the rules: IE having answers to a test)

Now I will preface this by saying I do not agree that cheating is right, I just want to play devils advocate

So, can anyone tell me why cheating is bad? One of the most common things I hear is that it is not fair to other people. But you know what else isn't fair, that other people were born with more brains, or more muscle. This gives them an innate advantage, and would a cheater not simply be using their gift, cunning, to give themselves an advantage?

From an individualist standpoint, we try to do what is best for ourselves. So for example, If cheating on the LSAT would get you into law school, why should you flip burgers rather than go to law school just because your competition either has more intellect or drive.

Of course, cheating will probably catch up to you at some point, and getting caught is a major deterrent, but how is cheating unfair when life itself is not fair?

Fairness exists only in your brain. It's not natural it's it's probably different in your mind than it is in any others. Same goes for "bad" which makes your question difficult to answer...

I think SAT tests are bad because they don't give an accurate evaluation of the test subject and they enable an optimal filtering of students. So If you cheat to be where you can be, that's fine, but if you cheat to steal a deserving person's place and waste it, then you're a douche !

It's very ambiguous when you steal a more deserving person's place to your advantage, an advantage your benefit from.... that shows the flaws in the system. It therefore raises the question of what to do when an unfair system doesn't allow you to be all you can be.

I think the degree of "bad" is measured by a selfless evaluation of how much good is done and how much is prevented, regardless of who gets it. The overall result determines what is "good" or "bad".

I have an amusing question for you. If you were to conclude that a specific cheating is bad, yet good for you, why do good ?

runic knight:

Mick Golden Blood:
Cheating is legitimate as any other form of survival tool.

Sure, you don't have to like it, or people who do it.

But calling it as being inherently bad is ignant.

Life isn't fair. If a person isn't born smart enough (Jee, I wonder why mentally handicapped people exist. It's either circumstance or genetics) or strong enough (genetics, circumstance again) it's funny how people who have the ability to live without the need to cheat always bash on the cheaters. Sure, they might have the ability, but not everyone does. Some just need to cheat to survive. They're not dumb enough to qualify as retarded (and live off government, or other), and they're not strong enough to do good paying physical labour, etc. So instead of having a shit fucking job and life working as a janitor, they do what they can to live happily just like everyone else with their little talents.

Nothing is wrong, nothing is right. You're path, no matter what it is, is meaningless in the end. Make the most of it, fuck the rest.

Ah yes the "Life's not fair" defense. Because pretending you actually know something you don't (this being cheating on a test, forging documents on a resume, etc.) is perfectly justifiable so long as bad things happened to you previously. I mean it must also mean you can break laws to (in some cases, cheating actually is) because, as you said, it is meaninglessly in the end so screw it, lets make even more unfair and try to feebly justify selfish actions.

You lack reading comprehension.

Remember the part where I said "nothing is wrong, nothing is right" ? Hmmm... I wonder what that means. I never tried to justify anything. I simply explained it from my own perspective, period. Whether or not it sounds like a justification is for you to decide but that was not my intent, especially since at the end of it I say so...

Nor did I say anything about something bad being a requirement to justify anything.

Not to mention "you don't have to like it, or the people who do it". I'm not judging anything here, yet you attack me as if I am.

Honestly, is this all you have? No one is saying people have to live in squalor if they lack natural talents. Motivation, determination, hard work... these things are removed from talent and can more then make up for lack of natural talent a lot of the time.

Keep telling yourself that. I will never agree with this. So many people work hard but live in squalor for the entirety of their lives. If this was true there would be a much larger amount of well-off people than there is now.

I wonder how hard those children in africa work in those mines... Or being forced to fight in wars at the age of 8...

Cheating, blatantly admiting to yourself and everyone else that you don't know the subject or you aren't qualified for the position should kinda tell you that you aren't qualified. No one is entitled to a good job or to not be a janitor, that is the flaw here. You whine about life not being fair yet you base your conclusion on a concept that people are entitled to some degree of fair return. That is incorrect.

hmm... let's zoom in on this:

that is the flaw here. You whine about life not being fair yet you base your conclusion on a concept that people are entitled to some degree of fair return.

Tell me where I said that. Go on. Do it. I never hinted at such a thing. Neither did I "whine" about anything. I stated how I saw things. Is everything whining these days? I said people can do what they can to enjoy life in whatever way they must. That's it. Whatever follows afterwards is on them, but people wouldn't do these things if they didn't think it would benefit them/make them happy. "You can do it, sure. but I wouldn't do it myself/advise it."

Really, I just don't believe in this arbitrary right and wrong bull-shit. That's brainwashing you get from the society you grow up in. In other societies they literally teach kids how to cheat and be as deceptive as possible because that's what they must do to survive. To repeat: It's a tool, nothing more. Labeling it as inherently wrong is fucking ignorant.

By the way, you can stop being aggressive now. I don't like dealing with people like that.
And get off that high horse.

Samus Aran but a man:

Mick Golden Blood:
Cheating is legitimate as any other form of survival tool.

Sure, you don't have to like it, or people who do it.

But calling it as being inherently bad is ignant.

Life isn't fair. If a person isn't born smart enough (Jee, I wonder why mentally handicapped people exist. It's either circumstance or genetics) or strong enough (genetics, circumstance again) it's funny how people who have the ability to live without the need to cheat always bash on the cheaters. Sure, they might have the ability, but not everyone does. Some just need to cheat to survive. They're not dumb enough to qualify as retarded (and live off government, or other), and they're not strong enough to do good paying physical labour, etc. So instead of having a shit fucking job and life working as a janitor, they do what they can to live happily just like everyone else with their little talents.

Nothing is wrong, nothing is right. You're path, no matter what it is, is meaningless in the end. Make the most of it, fuck the rest.

This isn't about natural intelligence or natural strength though; it's about understanding and skills. Anyone can become a Doctor or a Lawyer if they try hard enough.

Not anyone.

2 words.

Shit happens.

randomsix:

Moderated:
It depends on what it is.
If it's something that you need to know for your job, like say medical school for a doctor, then it's bad. If, on the other hand, it's something you won't use in your profession, then I see nothing wrong with it.

If it has nothing to do with your profession, then why are you cheating to be perceived as better than you actually are at it?

Captcha: trust me

I think they meant a situation like cheating in a class where what you're learning won't apply to your future career. For example, I had to take a programming class for my future BS in Geology. Why? I have no idea. I most likely won't use any of it in any job I'll hold and even all the professors in our department agree that it's pointless. So the argument here would be why should I risk failing a class that has nothing to do with my future career and stop me from getting my degree? I'm not saying that I agree, but it holds more water than for those that actually apply to one's major/job/career, etc.

I don't think I'm clever at all. I was in set 2 for Maths in school which meant I would take my official exam in the 5th year, but in the 4th year I was bumped up to set 1, which meant that I took it a year early. So I missed quite a lot of teaching in the process, but still got a B, which was a good mark. At that level of testing a lot of Maths appeared to be fairly straightforward to me, I guess it's the way my mind works (if you have two intersecting lines, what is the angle on the other side?), and I didn't cheat. The few things I have cheated at (cards, whatever) feel like a hollow victory and years later I still have that feeling that I achieved something with that Maths exam.

Edit: I should point out that I'm useless at remembering facts so stuff like history and geography were things I dropped as soon as I could.

Champthrax:
how is cheating unfair when life itself is not fair?

Allow me to put this into some very angry terms.

The first thing is, you don't get to decide what's fair and balanced in a world you don't understand. This world is one gigantic natural machine using that merry-go-round we call life as its processing power. To what end? I don't know, but it's carrying on and until God, Cthulhu, or Yoda tells me different, it has its own kind of balance by which everything is weighed against everything else. Since you are - barring some misfortune - at the top of the food chain, I deny the notion of unfairness against at least nature itself.

On the basis of human versus human, I'll start by saying that if I worked my butt off to get where I am and you cheated, I don't want you to succeed because effort is suppose to lead to payoff, and payoff without effort means that you are stealing, a dirty thief and nothing more. If your excuse is less brain-mass or less muscle, I think you'll find that they make allowances for disabled people because their lives AREN'T fair, but that's not achieved by cheating but by deserving a break, GIVEN by others. When you DO wrong, though, you are still WRONG.

Not earning your place is as to stealing as dirty business practices are to economics. How did anyone in today's business community ever graduate from college? By the nature of things, they obviously failed their courses, because they fail to understand that undermining economic futures for quick money still blows up in their faces. Short-sightedness is still that very thing no matter how much you got NOW.

OP said " because eventually you have to think for yourself", but i am not sure if the people who passed the exams can think for themselves.

In most cases, sure, they should be able to. But sometimes book smart people are just good at learning what is in the textbook, and are not creative.

So, I am not against cheating at all.

madwarper:

Would you be OK that the doctor who is about to operate on you to have "cheated" their way through medical school?

It's also a shame that instead of removing your appendix, you were castrated instead.

Well... That scenario would probably be more of a clerical error realistically.

Cheating a test isn't bad.

Tests that are cheatable are bad.

Creating a multi-choice nuisance that checks how good you are at memorizing pieces of data short-term is a pointless endeavour.

The idea of measuring competence in these limited ways has a bad effect on society. I know a lot of gifted people, who are just bad at test. For various reasons. And then there are people who are not as smart, not as creative, not as nice, not as competent - but they excel at memorizing boring shit.

Let's face it, most doctors, lawyers, politicians have cheated to get where they are whether in an entry test or in some other way. As long as the system is arranged around competition it will always exist and there will always be nothing wrong with it.

Also, cheating requires a lot of intelligence to get away with so it's something that doctors, accountants and lawyers should be naturally good at.

I remember in middle school (man, that was a long time ago), there was this dude who'd always glance at a test (can't remember the subject, only that the questions were multiple choice). Being the competitive sort, I just hated the idea of someone doing as well as me without doing the work. So I marked the wrong answer for every question, then waited for him to turn in the test. Then I erased everything and marked the right choices.

No one ever tried to cheat off me again.

RubyT:
Cheating a test isn't bad.

Tests that are cheatable are bad.

Creating a multi-choice nuisance that checks how good you are at memorizing pieces of data short-term is a pointless endeavour.

The idea of measuring competence in these limited ways has a bad effect on society. I know a lot of gifted people, who are just bad at test. For various reasons. And then there are people who are not as smart, not as creative, not as nice, not as competent - but they excel at memorizing boring shit.

And yet studies have shown that these kinds of standardized tests (such as the GRE) do provide an indication of future success (for the GRE, in graduate school).

I suppose to me it all depends on what exactly your cheating on. I see that some people are also saying that it's because people are unskilled enough to pass on their own, now don't get me wrong. I hate cheaters, but it takes a certain skill to succeed at cheating too.

randomsix:

RubyT:
Cheating a test isn't bad.

Tests that are cheatable are bad.

Creating a multi-choice nuisance that checks how good you are at memorizing pieces of data short-term is a pointless endeavour.

The idea of measuring competence in these limited ways has a bad effect on society. I know a lot of gifted people, who are just bad at test. For various reasons. And then there are people who are not as smart, not as creative, not as nice, not as competent - but they excel at memorizing boring shit.

And yet studies have shown that these kinds of standardized tests (such as the GRE) do provide an indication of future success (for the GRE, in graduate school).

And that is my point.

Yes, it may not be fair that other people are born with a natural advantage to you, but that's not something we really have a great degree of control over, the important thing is that in situations where we do have control over the world we make sure that we make things as fair as possible, e.g. Making sure that we don't cheat. Using your "Cunning" has no place in a test that isn't meant to measure such a thing, you're just misleading and deceiving for your own ends.

As for the idea of flipping burgers vs. Going to law school, you're being reductionist and ignoring vital pieces here. Refraining from cheating doesn't mean that you can't get a good education and you're going to end up in a bad job, and the people who are able to get into prestigious educational establishments don't all do so on the gifts they're born with, there's also considerable focus on how much knowledge they've acquired and how determined they've been in their work, and a system that aims to reward those who work hard and learn more seems like a pretty good nod in the direction of building a fairer world.

As for the "Cheating is unfair, but life is unfair" argument, I just don't feel like that makes any sense. If I can show you one object coloured slightly orange and another object coloured a deeper orange, does that mean the first object isn't somewhat orange? Of course it doesn't. If something's unfair then it's unfair, no matter how fair or unfair the things surrounding it may be.

RubyT:

randomsix:

RubyT:
Cheating a test isn't bad.

Tests that are cheatable are bad.

Creating a multi-choice nuisance that checks how good you are at memorizing pieces of data short-term is a pointless endeavour.

The idea of measuring competence in these limited ways has a bad effect on society. I know a lot of gifted people, who are just bad at test. For various reasons. And then there are people who are not as smart, not as creative, not as nice, not as competent - but they excel at memorizing boring shit.

And yet studies have shown that these kinds of standardized tests (such as the GRE) do provide an indication of future success (for the GRE, in graduate school).

And that is my point.

I think your post may be insinuating that your point is the exact opposite of what you want it to.

randomsix:
I think your post may be insinuating that your point is the exact opposite of what you want it to.

Not really. But don't be sad. You probably do well in multiple-choice tests.

Cheating does one thing: undermine the point of the test. The purpose of the test is not to be "beaten" like a game, but to serve as a measurement of comprehension of the subject matter. The point is to prove how much you know on the subject. If you cheat, you've gotten a good score without knowing the subject. You won the game, sure. But you missed the point. Now you have a grade, without the skills that grade implies. Penalizing cheating on tests is important to ensure that the point of the test is upheld.

Knowing the answers (cheating) is different to knowing how to find the answers (learning).

What happens when you're in a situation where you have to know/work something out and you can't cheat? You're pretty much stuffed.

[captcha: rack your brains]

That's the point captcha, they can't.

Because a test isn't testing your "cunning". It's testing your knowledge on the subject matter.

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