I have never raged/facepalmed so hard in my life

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Olikar:

But at the end of the day I don't feel there is much talent in Rock and Metal, it's all rather simplistic and boring to me.

It makes a lot of money. And apparently its requires little talent... obvious question why dont you go and make millions doing it? If you value your integrity more than money thats admirable.

It just seems really odd to have such a WIDE hatred. Id never profess to hating something like "Action" in movies. I hate all action in all movies because its all slow motion scripted camera pan shit that is basically a wank fest for the actor. As such all action in all movies is talentless crap. It just feels silly having such a sweeping generalization on something as broad as "Metal and rock" which can encompass SO MANY different things. Just as "Action" can be anything from a slow methodical period accurate sword fight to the flying matrix scenes to the sniper battles in Enemy at the gates. To sweep them all together feels... blunt and lazy. Theres exceptions to all my hatreds. I really dont care for rap but i really like some of 2pacs work.

Sweeping generalizations as a rule tend to be founded on ignorance. "ALL of X is Y" is usually a VERY poorly founded statement because exceptions always exist. Pretty much every time someone says these things its because they have yet to encounter the exceptions or even try to find them. Its why a lot of people cry "Ignorance".

they're just ignorant kids. at some point in time, most of us have probably said some stupid ignorant things about genre's of music we didn't like when we were kids.

of course they are completely wrong and stupid, but that's to be expected from children. hopefully somebody sets them straight and they can feel like an idiot when they look back on this video when they get older.

Let's not turn this into a Rap vs. Rock topic. It's obvious both require a different type of talent to be GOOD. (notice i use the word good and not "successful" because success does not mean talent)

The thumbnail of the video was more than enough for me to decide that it's not to be taken seriously. It's just two kids who are biased towards metal/rock and (I assume) have lackluster knowledge of the material they are covering.

And it is YouTube, lest it not be known that it is generally not the greatest source for intelligent commentary.

And even then, it is merely an opinion, albeit a badly supported one. You'll live a happier life if you learn to ignore the trolls, OP ;D

And for the record. I listen to pretty much any genre, as long as it sounds good.

Olikar:

chuckey:
Okay so I just saw why metal/rock music is talentless crap that's too loud and doesn't have any meaning to it..

On the whole that sounds about right.

I really hope you're trolling...

OT: Metal, rock and rap all require talent. Composing something decent in ANY genre of music takes some talent.

Question: Why do you give a fuck about the opinions of two random kids?

Try getting pissed off at things that matter. Human rights abuses perhaps.

Music is one of the most subjective things on the planet... to say what is/isn't good is hardly up to one person to dictate. It is a matter of personal preference.

I am not really a fan of metal myself, but then again I universally listen here and there to most genres, it's a give and take. And i don't mind others listening to whatever they want as long as they are not trying to be my personal DJ over the shoulder by tuning that sound up to max.

chuckey:
Well, now. That's familiar...

Yeah, Chuckey. I basically did the exact same thing about a thread in XCOM's Game Hub just yesterday, to be told the exact same thing. And it makes sense, too!

People will always be there to tell you you're crap, or that the kind of music you like is crap, or that your inability to excel at a game, a profession or your lack of a specific talent makes you a subhuman wretch. Why? Because people on the whole are stupid and close-minded. Give them a niche and anything that upsets that niche is met with borderline feral hostility.

So what if these kids hate Metal? Just avoid judging them right back because that wouldn't make you any better, and go blast your ears off with some Burzum or some Cannibal Corpse. I'm partial to "Frantic Disembowelment", myself.

End of story.

lacktheknack:
Can't we all just get along?

I like "Dragonforce" and Azealia Banks the same.

"As I Lay Dying" and Kanye West are about the same quality.

Both genres have their odd ones, like "Attack Attack!" alongside "Die Antwoord".

And both have their abominations, like "Anal C**t", or Soulja Boy.

Why can't we have both?

How can you dislike Anal Cunt? They are fucking awesome!

I see your rage and raise you this, not 100% but i'm pretty sure the little shit has been quoted saying this...

image

My face when reading this statement.

GregerFisk:

lacktheknack:
Can't we all just get along?

I like "Dragonforce" and Azealia Banks the same.

"As I Lay Dying" and Kanye West are about the same quality.

Both genres have their odd ones, like "Attack Attack!" alongside "Die Antwoord".

And both have their abominations, like "Anal C**t", or Soulja Boy.

Why can't we have both?

How can you dislike Anal Cunt? They are fucking awesome!

They're trolls. The music I've heard is badly mixed, badly written and badly conceived. You can barely understand the vocalist. They exist for the sole purpose to infuriate non-metal fans.

They're abominations.

lacktheknack:

Why can't we have both?

Because whining like a pretentious prat is the way of the future.

I respect anything that can gain an audience.
I dont really like rap, but you do need one hell of a tongue and vocab to do it.
Also, it is so har do make a band sound good.
Anyone who gave either music a shot for themselves would know that.

Two kids who just sit around and complain mean nothing to me, and should mean nothing to you too :)

Despite the fact that I know this is a troll video, I just can't help myself.

There are definately a few points of contention in this video and some incongruencies that make me a little irritated as well. It's not particularly fair to say, "You can't judge rap by what is mainstream," and then do exactly that with metal.

Some of my other problems include:

1.) Metal is about worshipping the devil.

No... Just no. Stereotyping at its finest.

Most metal I listen to explores the dark depths of the human mind/soul. That being said, some of the darkest lyrics I have heard have come from God-fearing men. So yeah, we can leave the, "Satanic," thing out of it. Sure, there are a few bands/genres that do go that direction, but I would hardly call them a majority; more like a niche.

I've made it no secret here that I adore Mercenary - both old and new. If I personally had to choose the best example of good metal, I would choose them.

There is no Satan worship, only exploring the darker sides of life. It ain't all rainbows and starshines.

2.) Metal/Rock takes no talent.

*Facepalm*

Tell me how synchronizing multiple instruments being played by real people in real time to vocals being sung in real time is talentless. One can generate a simple rap beat in Audacity in seconds. It really doesn't take much. Put some bad poetry to that rap beat and *boom* rap.

Having said that, there is rap out there that isn't all that bad. It's still not my thing though.

To say it takes more talent to generate a computer generated beat loop than to play a guitar, bass, drums, and/or a keyboard is ludicrous. That, and most metal vocalists can actually sing, as in, carry a tune.

Metal, well, good metal, is complex, comprehensible, and powerful. One should also keep in mind, that this is also simply an opinion of mine.

Please, tell me there is no instrumental or vocal talent here. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Oh boy, now a general statement:

Those two boys did exactly what so many metalheads do: Put the genre of their choice on a pedastal and attack every different genre with stupid arguments and generalisations. And you know what? I don't blame them. During that age I myself saw:

People attacking metal with the same arguments and hostility.
People attacking rap with the same arguments and hostility.
People attacking any kind of genre with the same arguments and hostility.

When I was 16 I listened to metal. I saw (and still see the same people) jack off about how their music is superiour and they show a lot of hostility towards people who don't share that stance. I saw the same from 'fanatics' of every genre - they are fan(atic)s! What do you expect? Rational comparison?

But now comes the actual funny stuff:

Your reactions.

Oh, you may laugh at them, point out how stoopid they are, prove that metal takes talent but all you say can be thrown into the same dumpster as their statements when you finish it off with

tsb247:
One can generate a simple rap beat in Audacity in seconds. It really doesn't take much. Put some bad poetry to that rap beat and *boom* rap.

*sigh*

You know what? Take a guy who can string two strings on a bass, someone who knows a few basic guitar grips and can growl into a mic and someone who is capable of drumming in a somewhat consistant tact and you get metal. It takes about as much talent to make bad metal as it takes to make bad rap. So what is your point in your funny story? I personally saw less time and effort put into small metal bands from friends (who do try to make a living from it) than another friend puts into his solo rap hobby. Does that prove that big artists put less work into their music than artists from other genres?

How about you pull back, stop feeling threatened by a few kids spouting nonsense (and trying to prove them wrong even when they are never going to see your arguments).

lacktheknack:

They're trolls. The music I've heard is badly mixed, badly written and badly conceived. You can barely understand the vocalist. They exist for the sole purpose to infuriate non-metal fans.

They're abominations.

That's true, but I still somehow enjoy their music...

TheKasp:
How about you pull back, stop feeling threatened by a few kids spouting nonsense (and trying to prove them wrong even when they are never going to see your arguments).

Who's feeling threatened? I knew it was a troll attempt (as stated in my original post), and since I happened to wander into this thread after seeing the title (who wouldn't?), I put in my two cents and moved on. You should also note that several times throughout my post, I mentioned that my statements were merely a matter of personal opinion.

But if you're gonna nitpick...

Do I personally believe it takes less talent to generate a rap beat than to play a guitar, bass, or drums well and be successful at it? Yes, I can honestly say that I do. It's an opinion of mine, and I expressed it. How many years do you think people spend learning how to generate beats from pre-recorded samples, and made a career of it, compared to those who have made a good living playing a guitar, bass, or drums?

tsb247:

TheKasp:
How about you pull back, stop feeling threatened by a few kids spouting nonsense (and trying to prove them wrong even when they are never going to see your arguments).

Who's feeling threatened? I knew it was a troll attempt (as stated in my original post), and since I happened to wander into this thread after seeing the title (who wouldn't?), I put in my two cents and moved on. You should also note that several times throughout my post, I mentioned that my statements were merely a matter of personal opinion.

"It is my opnion" is not a statement I respect. Everyone has an opinion, it is as special as shitting your pants. Now try to back the opinion up with evidence and we can talk. Now lets look in this thread: Someone who, by my guess, is prefering metal to rap felt attacked by a few kids who themselfs were most probably attacked by metalheads for their muscal preference. All I see is a bunch of metalheads threatened by kids and try to argue back to feel superiour.

But you know what helps your point? Trying to dismiss stereotypes by adding more like:

How many years do you think people spend learning how to generate beats from pre-recorded samples, and made a career of it, compared to those who have made a good living playing a guitar, bass, or drums?

Because music is just about the sound, amirite? Rap focuses heavy on the lyrical part, the performance of those (every decent rapper has a characterstic style, like any decent metal band has its own style in performing) as well as writing. Perfecting those skills is the same as learning a muscal instrument. This doesn't even go into freestyle. A rapper without a decent 'singing' voice or someone who is just a carbon copy of another one is only going to have it shoved down his face and won't have all that much success.

I would suggest to read the book "The Anthology of Rap" but boy, I'm sure this is on lost ground here.

GregerFisk:

lacktheknack:

They're trolls. The music I've heard is badly mixed, badly written and badly conceived. You can barely understand the vocalist. They exist for the sole purpose to infuriate non-metal fans.

They're abominations.

That's true, but I still somehow enjoy their music...

Not much I can say about that. Just remember that some people enjoy Soulja Boy, too.

Vault101:
rap does take talent though....and I'm sure those kids were pissed off after having rock/metal elitists constantly say rap requires no talent

I know I would be

It doesn't take the type of talent that rock/metal has though. (Not saying that one type of talent is better than the other here)

Generally speaking, most hip hop/rap artists don't write their own beats and sometimes don't even write their own rhymes, and even if they did the songs aren't too complex musically.

I don't regard rap or hip hop as types of music when compared to something like rock or metal. Rap seems to be about lyrics, rhymes and the message they carry. The message is different depending on the artist. You could have serious politically charged lyrics, or funny lyrics like the stuff from the lonely island and the epic rap battles of history. But, at the end of the day, its the lyrics and the simple beat that you can bob your head to that most people seem to like. Rap is more an exercise in narrative and satire than music.

Before anything, they're kids.

At the beginning, one of them was going to explain why they think the genres are crap and that they want to just make a video to put on Youtube.

Kids think that setting fire to a Lego brick with a magnifying glass would be cool so that they can just make a video to put on Youtube.

It's pretty evident that they are just going through the motions of being kids and have yet to broaden their horizons to all genres, artists, bands, and styles of music for them to make any definitive statement that they believe. Whose to say that they think this at all and are only doing to annoy tightly wounded people for the lulz?

That still a thing, right?

Ishal:

I don't regard rap or hip hop as types of music when compared to something like rock or metal. Rap seems to be about lyrics, rhymes and the message they carry. The message is different depending on the artist. You could have serious politically charged lyrics, or funny lyrics like the stuff from the lonely island and the epic rap battles of history. But, at the end of the day, its the lyrics and the simple beat that you can bob your head to that most people seem to like. Rap is more an exercise in narrative and satire than music.

altough the rappers themselfs may not be producers, production can be VERY important, I'm no expert on music theory but the correct use of beats, singing and/or clever use of sampling can an ok rapper sound awsome

but more importantly the rapper himself its not just ryming but if he/she can get the flow down WITH good lyrics then its amazing...its hard to describe but take eminems "way I am"

and just because you need to play instruments with rock doesnt automatically make you better and doesnt mean you can't be dumb/generic

if you want to make a comparison Eminem is head and shoulders above nickleback in terms of everything

I recently had a number of people get very angry at me for claiming The Escapist Forums really have no business discussing music. It's threads like these. Not just the OP but the responses. You people know less than nothing. The IGN forums offer up better discourse about this stuff than you guys.

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