What is being homophobic? Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 . . . 16 NEXT | |
You don't see gay people making threads about how homosexuality disgusts them. That should tell you something. They may not find heterosexuality appealing. I definitely don't like vaginas. But I don't care about them enough to make a thread about how "disgusting" it is. And then ask if I'm being offensive or not. So why do many feel the need to say that homosexuality is gross? And then say "I have gay friends" and think that absolves them? You're obviously either very obsessed or very disturbed by homosexuality (and to be disturbed you must be quite obsessed). People really need to look in the mirror and stop thinking that it's the same-sex kissing and homosexuality or somehow they being straight are the reasons why they have the biases they do. I know too many straight people who don't have such biases and such a wall of discomfort. Pull it together. Stop making excuses for yourself. | |
Oh? They aren't? | |
Homophobia=Irrational fear of, aversion towards and/or discrimination/hatred against homosexuality/homosexuals. Your examples aren't quite right. Being anti-gay and being homophobic are similar but not the same things. Many aren't anti-gay but definitely homophobic. | |
It really seems like you just want to label everyone as being homophobic and anti(ish)-gay.
The comparison has already been made between two gay guys making out and two ugly people of opposite sex making out, with both being called "disgusting". What you seem to fail to understand is that two guys making out, to a straight male, will always be the same as two ugly people making out. Because (to use your own words) they're not ATTRACTED to either. Therefore, it is not entirely irrational to have the same reaction to two ugly people as two gay guys. Your comments would seem to indicate you think the aversion is to the individual; you're wrong. | |
No. Finding something unappealing would be............being uninterested in it. Not really liking something. It doesn't attract me in any way. I don't relate to _________. It doesn't connect with you, but disgust is a different level. Disgust is more severe. To even get to the point of disgust takes work, IMO. How exactly can you arbitrarily denote something as disgusting when you've never done it? And when other people do that very same thing and you DO NOT find it disgusting in those situations? It's a mental warp. That's a clear cut defensive mechanism. It's insecurity. | |
No, not everyone. But a major majority of straight people do have homophobia within them. I'd say about 70-ish%. A lot of gay people have internalized homophobia within them. We live in a homophobic world. That's how it is. People are indoctrinated into homophobia. You can totally be OK with homosexuality, same-sex kissing on a conceptual basis but your instincts, your subconscious state tells you it's wrong. It's hard to break, but it can and has been broken and is being broken. But it's about admitting you have a problem instead of making excuses for it.
Ugly is not an identity. Is that hard to understand? I don't find a man and woman kissing gross, and I don't find two women kissing gross. Most gay people do not literally believe a man and woman kissing are disgusting. So no, it's not about sexual orientation. Heterosexual sexual orientation means you're predominantly/completely attracted to the opposite-sex. That does not equal finding homosexuality disgusting. That does not equal finding two men kissing disgusting. It means you're not attracted to it. You're not interested in it. That does not equate to disgust. The aversion is to the sexuality, and that's an irrational aversion. The aversion is to homosexuality. That's exactly what homophobia is. | |
You are so smart I bet you believe everythign you say is true wait probably not you probably think some crazy stuff about people I bet alot of what you think about other people is the stuff in your head leaking out into the world you might not want that to happen because then you look crazy. | |
I tried to make sense of homosexuality for a long time. It's different than how I think, and it's big part of my nature to want to understand people who are different than I am. I had a friend in high school who was openly gay and very conflicted about it (this is in the "bible belt", in case you were curious). We were talking one day and he asked if I knew why he was gay. I didn't have an answer for him because at the time I was 14 and was still trying to figure out math, let alone relationships. It wasn't until much later that I realized that there really wasn't an answer, he was gay because he just was. Sadly we're no longer in contact. He was a few years older than me and moved as soon as he got the chance, and eventually we just drifted apart. I had another friend in high school who was known for being rather promiscuous with the ladies, so it was a bit of a shocker when he "came out". We were working out one day, and being the curious person that I am, I asked "at what point did you know that you were gay?" His answer was a little surprising to me at first. "I think I've always known. I just thought that if I was with enough girls, had enough sex, did all the things I was supposed to do, then I would be able to fix myself. Coming out really wasn't me realizing that I'm gay, it was me finally admitting it to myself." The more I think about it, the more his answer makes sense to me. I still don't understand his sexuality, but I don't question it, and we're friends to this day. Making sense of things is human reaction, I think. We want to know why, and if we can't understand "why", we label whatever it is as a threat. I still want to make sense of many things I will never be able to make sense of. Why does my cat hate me on Saturdays? Why do I think girls with olive skin are drop-dead gorgeous? Why is staring into a fire so relaxing? The trick that I've found is not to stop wondering, it's to decide which questions are important to answer. In the OP's case, he found a question that he wants to answer. Now he has to look inside himself and see if he's actually willing to answer it. | |
When I see two women kiss, I don't feel anything. It's like, OK, whatever. Yeah. Disgust? No. Why is that? Why is that for the majority of gay people, living in a straight world, that we can see these images of heterosexuality DAILY, pushed on us, without much care. And no dirty looks. No turning away. In fact, acting more insecure seeing ANOTHER gay couple/person than straight couple kissing? People, you are socially indoctrinated. When there are straight people on this very page saying it doesn't disgust them to see two guys kissing, why are you still trying to justify that mentality? You have been indoctrinated and you don't want to admit you have a problem. You don't want to admit you may be a little homophobic. Which is understandable, because I'm sure you have gay, bi, etc. friends and family you love. We all have flaws. But part of being an adult is addressing them and fixing them. It's being done worldwide, and it's something everyone should do, just to better themselves and remove a burden they shouldn't have. And wouldn't have. | |
So when all else fails, turn to insults, I guess. | |
Homophobic is a dumb word. I don't know its etymology but it was probably made up as a label for anyone visibly against gays, which fear doesn't necessarily have anything to do with. | |
You would have to guess because you did not read I said probably it is just my opinion but you probably think weird stuff about people and it shows because you write things that are just you thinking about other people what you have in your head. But that's ok everyone does that. | |
Although you didn't answer the question, there is no problem in that as you put it, he is who he is, because that's just who he is. What's important is that you were a truly supportive, accepting friend and that means a lot, especially given you lived in the Bible Belt. That's really major.
That happens A LOT. In fact (not tooting the horn just saying) I can say I've been with guys who are ladies men, or are the guys that girls throw themselves on. And they think if they play the straight game that they'll be straight, or that others won't suspect they are gay. Of course it doesn't work that way. You can only lie forever. You can only deny forever. You can't change who you are innately. And you can portray the straight man image, but you're going to eventually slip up. Being gay, and considered attractive by peers, you see this dynamic. Some so-called straight guys checking their friend out on the sly, checking you out, and that no-one notices. It's understandable you don't understand on an individual level. I don't really get the attraction to boobs and vagina. Because I don't find it appealing. But that's because I'm gay. It's not because there is something wrong or disgusting with boobs and vagina.
The the case with all forms of prejudice. That's the threat at work here. Do I really want to ask myself these tough questions? Am I ready to see the reflection in the mirror? People tend to like to blame others for their dilemmas, or not even admit they may have a problem. It takes a strong person to admit their weaknesses. | |
This thread is making little sense to me. If I don't like seeing same sex couples kiss, I am homophobic. So then... Help me out with this: | |
I don't think weird stuff of people. In fact, the opposite is true. I tend to take people at face value. I tend to take what they say as a representation of what they are and how they operate. And from there I decide who I like, who I want to know more about, who I dislike. You're right, everyone makes judgments. Everyone internalizes in their own way. I internalize more than most and whatever I believe from that is a reflection of what my "readings" of that person tell me to think. | |
You dislike PDA. We're talking about people who are borderline fetishizing woman-woman sex, and intimacy, while also saying anything male-male is gross. That's not a "I don't like PDA" mentality. It's a "I don't like male homosexuality" mentality. | |
If you hae a problem with gay people, unless you also live in actual physical discomfort level compulsive fear of homosexuals, it's not a "phobia", you're a bigot. End of story. Hate the way 'phobia" is so misused. | |
In this case, it is homophobia. The word is clearly overused and used incorrectly, but not everyone who has this mentality in regards to having an irrational revulsion of same-sex intimacy are bigoted. A large portion, of course, yes. But not quite all. They're just insecure and have internalized issues they haven't addressed. Now, when they go out of their way to blame gay people for those problems or not admit they have a problem, then I dismiss them as a bigot or as simply someone who really just isn't gay accepting. | |
Human beings aren't snails. Human beings are not food. Holding hands is SEXUAL? Greeting your partner with a kiss=sex? Um, no. First of all, you couldn't possibly know their intentions and whether or not it was sexual or not, whether they were behaving with sexualized intent when the kissed one another, or whether that kiss will turn into sex eventually. Making out is sexual, you can feel the sexual charge, you can read into it these two people are lusting one another. But basic physical affection between lovers is an expression of love. TBH, you should address that mentality. It would save you a lot of unnecessary angst regarding your distaste of PDA. To jump from holding hands to penetrative sex is, again, projective disgust in a nutshell.
I totally get that but none of this has anything to do with kissing hahaha. I'm not laughing at you at all but it's just funny. We're talking about basic affection and you're bringing up male intercourse. Obviously, you wouldn't want to see two men fucking one another. Actually, I don't want to see anyone fucking one another up close, because sex is a personal thing and I'd feel like I'm intruding and sort of feel violated. There is no homophobia in that, but that's not what's being discussed.
That has nothing to do with men showing affection, though. Actually............no, it does, to a certain extent. The gay men=feminine=lesser men mentality. Misogyny. Homophobia is very much connected to misogyny, and so is projective disgust. Men taking and acting as women. Most gay men aren't overtly fem, but even if they were...........so what? There is no shame in being fem. Plenty of straight men are more fem. Gay men across the board, fem and masculine, hate the fake ones, who put on a false character because they want attention. Fake guys who are insecure and aren't comfortable yet in their own skin. Can it be annoying? Yes. But we're talking about a HUMAN BEING. Not an act. Not a personality trait. Humans. And it certainly is NOT OK to reject a human being on the basis of one aspect of their personality that you a) don't understand and b) don't like because you don't understand. So what I'm seeing more or less is, I'm OK with gay men who pass as straight or who aren't TOO gay. That's not acceptance. Everyone should try not prejudging people and get to know them first.
That's what you want to believe because you don't want to admit you may have internalized homophobia issues, and you don't want to accept you may be the one with the issue. Unfortunately for you, research has been done on this subject, and it's clear this projective disgust mentality is born from homophobia. You can either address it or it will fester and likely get worse. | |
I respect your honesty and I'm sorry whatever occurred in your childhood has left scars. I disagree, though, with you more or less saying low level/moderate homophobia is acceptable. It is not acceptable whatsoever. It's unhealthy, to the homophobe, to homosexual persons, and to society. Very unhealthy. We should all strive to better ourselves in the end and that means working at admitting to yourself you have internalized issues you need to deal with.
Thank you Andy! | |
Your inability/refusal to compare the analogy between being disgusted at someone eating snails and being disgusted at watching two men kiss leads me to believe you are simply taking the Mickey. Investigate what an 'analogy' is. Before that I can not converse with you. | |
Of course. Harmless homophobia is, tautologically, harmless. If something hurts no-one, but helps a person find happiness/comfort, then there is nothing wrong with it. Someone finding me and my fiancée to be an unsettling concept has as much right to that feeling as we have to be in love. I'm not going to stop them if they don't stop me; live and let live, etc. (: | |
False analogy AKA logical fallacy. Look that up and you'll see why I won't engage you on comparing eating a snail to a human being showing affection to another human being. | |
No, it is NOT a false analogy. When seeking to emulate the feeling of disgust one might have at observing one thing they know is not wrong but still causes them pause has parallels between both. Watching someone eat snails and two homosexual men kiss (as was mentioned in the first post of this thread, stop trying to say this isn't about kissing and is about holding hands, this entire thread spawned on the premise of watching two homosexual men kiss) causes the exact same feeling of discontent in both situations in individuals. Do not just call "logical fallacy" without explaining WHY it is a logical fallacy. Both involve humans partaking in an action deemed strange (or maybe the better term is "queer") by society. Both spawn a sense of involuntary revolution. Both do not directly harm the viewer, participant or any part of society as a whole. Please explain how this is a false analogy. | |
Firstly, how old are you? Secondly... Get over yourself. Seriously, if the thought of two guys doing anything even moderately romantic makes your brain react like that it just comes across like you have some hella issues you need sorting. And I do not mean that in a mean way whatsoever. But seriously, if you cannot function when around homosexual men it kinda indicates that you have some issues to get over. I assume you do not live in a very large city? Cause if so you would spend the majority of your time recovering from random glimpses of happy gay couples. | |
I'm going to put mindset and irrational hate aside for this because that's a totally different ball park to knee-jerk disgust. Here's the thing. There's a lot of people you're not going to be attracted to. For heterosexual men that includes men. Is your reaction more severe than to romantic behaviour between members of any other group you're not attracted to? Let's use family members as an example, because I don't know what turns you off with the ladies and I don't want to be judgmental. Nobody wants to be exposed to people they're completely unattracted to being intimate. That is NORMAL. Being turned off by seeing gay men doing something which would also repulse you if you caught (again, JUST as an example) your parents doing it is normal and totally not homophobic. I hope my post is coherent. It's a tricky subject and a tricky point to have to make, and I tend to be rambly at the best of times. Oh, and kudos to being able to question your reasons for your reactions and wanting to understand yourself better. :EDITED: I noticed a few other posts on making out. Again, same rules apply. I'd be pretty turned off by watching my parents, or my grandparents, or my brother and his lady, make out. It would also repulse me to see people of certain groups do so. In case you're wondering, the elderly and the obese. I have nothing against those people as individuals, but I don't want to see them make out any more than I want to see family members make out, because I'm NOT attracted to them. It's not ageist or fatist (is that the term?), it's simply not being attracted to them. So if a person is repulsed by watching their family members OR gay guys make out? Not homophobic. | |
You do realise that you're coming off as more of a bigot than the supposedly homophobic people you're spouting about? They're made uncomfortable by gay acts of affection, but they are perfectly willing and happy to ignore that minor feeling of discomfort for the sake of the homosexual people involved. That seems reasonable to me. Whereas what you're saying is that these people ought to change what is essentially, to them, a gut reaction. Whether that reaction is caused by an innate psychological aversion or societal indoctrination, it is still going to be really fucking difficult to get rid of it completely. And you're saying they should do that anyway, giving absolutely no reason why? "It's unhealthy" does not qualify as a reason because there is no backup whatsoever to that claim. You would do well to accept something closer to this philosophy:
Otherwise you're just causing a problem for other people. You're being intolerant, in other words. Tolerance does not mean being a blank slate with absolutely no preferences or aversions. In an ideal world, yes, we'd aim for something like this, but the fact of the matter is that human beings do not work like that. So what tolerance means, in the real world, is letting other people do what they want to do in spite of whatever preferences or aversions you might have. | |
Yeah it weirds me out seeing two guys kissing. But that's my issue, not theirs. People cracking their knuckles makes me want to puke but I don't think we need to ban it. | |
Good point well made. I remember Nick Griffin complaining about how gays in public "look creepy", to which a gay in the audience shouted out "the feeling is mutual!" People have natural, instinctive reactions to certain situations, and some of them are unpleasant or negative. As long as they don't make important decisions off of the back of such behaviour or treat their disgust as universal/valid, keeping it to themselves, I don't see a problem. | |
I don't mind two guys kissing, or two girls kissing, or a guy and a girl kissing. Until it gets passionate... Then they should definitely get a room, but that goes for all couples. If you're truly that disgusted by homosexuality, maybe you're in denial? People who hate gays the most often turn out to be gay themselves. I'm not saying you are, by the way. | |
Oh God, why did you have to ruin your entire opinion with that phrase. OT: Okay OP, you're a little homophobic and it's not a natural thing. Don't worry though, it's not really a problem unless you act on it and make it difficult to be homosexual near you. You'll change your opinion soon enough. | |
See, I think that the whole thing of Homophobia verses Gay Hate-crime works a bit like this: Homophobia is You having some sort of negative attitude against gays. As much as you might want to not dislike gays, you intrinsically do. Gay Hate-Crime is doing something to gays 'cause they're gay. Murder, assault, theft, you know, crimes. See, what you've got now is Homophobia. BUT, you're actively trying to suppress it, and it isn't moving to hate-crime. In other words, the only negative reactions you have are the intrinsic ones that you can't control. You can try and suppress them, maybe even succeed, but the fact of the matter is it's something that's happening even as you're actively not wanting it. I don't think there's a court in the world that would punish you for that much. (Or I would hope not, anyway.) If you were going out punching gays in the face when they held hands, yeah, I'd start to have a problem, and the courts would too. But that's because punching people is more controllable, and it isn't a victimless crime like having homophobic thoughts but keeping them to yourself is. In other words? Yep, you're homophobic, but it's beyond your control and you're not acting on the thoughts beyond trying to suppress them and avoid having them, and anyone who says you deserve punishment for that, well... I can't agree with them, at least. I'm not saying you should stop trying to suppress the feelings or anything, but don't beat yourself up if your attempts fail. You're fighting against your natural reactions, and they're hard as fuck to change sometimes. | |
Yup, the facts don't lie. And the fact you and several other straight guys here have said they don't care about same-sex kissing should be reason enough to make it obvious that if you do, then you have an individual problem. -------------------------------------------------------------- Homophobic? Maybe You're Gay WHY are political and religious figures who campaign against gay rights so often implicated in sexual encounters with same-sex partners? In recent years, Ted Haggard, an evangelical leader who preached that homosexuality was a sin, resigned after a scandal involving a former male prostitute; Larry Craig, a United States senator who opposed including sexual orientation in hate-crime legislation, was arrested on suspicion of lewd conduct in a men's bathroom; and Glenn Murphy Jr., a leader of the Young Republican National Convention and an opponent of same-sex marriage, pleaded guilty to a lesser charge after being accused of sexually assaulting another man. One theory is that homosexual urges, when repressed out of shame or fear, can be expressed as homophobia. Freud famously called this process a "reaction formation" - the angry battle against the outward symbol of feelings that are inwardly being stifled. Even Mr. Haggard seemed to endorse this idea when, apologizing after his scandal for his anti-gay rhetoric, he said, "I think I was partially so vehement because of my own war." It's a compelling theory - and now there is scientific reason to believe it. In this month's issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, we and our fellow researchers provide empirical evidence that homophobia can result, at least in part, from the suppression of same-sex desire. Our paper describes six studies conducted in the United States and Germany involving 784 university students. Participants rated their sexual orientation on a 10-point scale, ranging from gay to straight. Then they took a computer-administered test designed to measure their implicit sexual orientation. In the test, the participants were shown images and words indicative of hetero- and homosexuality (pictures of same-sex and straight couples, words like "homosexual" and "gay") and were asked to sort them into the appropriate category, gay or straight, as quickly as possible. The computer measured their reaction times. The twist was that before each word and image appeared, the word "me" or "other" was flashed on the screen for 35 milliseconds - long enough for participants to subliminally process the word but short enough that they could not consciously see it. The theory here, known as semantic association, is that when "me" precedes words or images that reflect your sexual orientation (for example, heterosexual images for a straight person), you will sort these images into the correct category faster than when "me" precedes words or images that are incongruent with your sexual orientation (for example, homosexual images for a straight person). This technique, adapted from similar tests used to assess attitudes like subconscious racial bias, reliably distinguishes between self-identified straight individuals and those who self-identify as lesbian, gay or bisexual. Using this methodology we identified a subgroup of participants who, despite self-identifying as highly straight, indicated some level of same-sex attraction (that is, they associated "me" with gay-related words and pictures faster than they associated "me" with straight-related words and pictures). Over 20 percent of self-described highly straight individuals showed this discrepancy. Notably, these "discrepant" individuals were also significantly more likely than other participants to favor anti-gay policies; to be willing to assign significantly harsher punishments to perpetrators of petty crimes if they were presumed to be homosexual; and to express greater implicit hostility toward gay subjects (also measured with the help of subliminal priming). Thus our research suggests that some who oppose homosexuality do tacitly harbor same-sex attraction. What leads to this repression? We found that participants who reported having supportive and accepting parents were more in touch with their implicit sexual orientation and less susceptible to homophobia. Individuals whose sexual identity was at odds with their implicit sexual attraction were much more frequently raised by parents perceived to be controlling, less accepting and more prejudiced against homosexuals. It's important to stress the obvious: Not all those who campaign against gay men and lesbians secretly feel same-sex attractions. But at least some who oppose homosexuality are likely to be individuals struggling against parts of themselves, having themselves been victims of oppression and lack of acceptance. The costs are great, not only for the targets of anti-gay efforts but also often for the perpetrators. We would do well to remember that all involved deserve our compassion. | |
I hate the homophobe=gay connection because it's sort of self-aggrandizing but I've seen it happen too many times and there are too many studies showing the exact same things to deny there is a connection. There is, at the very least, a clear cut connection between insecurity with one's identity and homophobia. | |
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Finding something unappealing and finding something gross are not the same things.