Am I just at fault?

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meh if you knew she was in a relationship then your both equally guilty as i see it.
(course as i see it cheating on/with anyone is just wrong) but yeah..

i hope your prepared for the shit storm when it all comes out. tho i suppose..if she leaves him for you it will take some of the shit off.....just dont be to surprised if they stay together and both turn on you.....enjoy your work day mate :)

Yoshi4507:
Whos more wrong?

Neither of you is 'more' wrong, but both of you are at fault. You know she is in a relationship and that puts just as much blame on you. If my girlfriend cheated on me and the guy she cheated with knew I was in the picture I would blame both of them. Being co workers would make it more complicated. Congratulations on making things as difficult as possible for yourself.

Here's what I think is going on in the OPs head right now. "Most people say it's wrong...but a few said it's ok. Obviously I'm not some prude held down by out dated mentality's...they need to just understand that life isn't as black and white as they pretend it is. See these few kindred souls who say i'm not wrong understand".

You came on here because you feel guilty. You are guilty. If all you want is to seek someone who will mindlessly tell you your ok and your a good guy, go back to your slut.

the fact that you're even asking means you think you're wrong, at least a little bit.

However, I'm in a similar situation and I can tell you that no, it's not wrong. I don't think so, anyway. She's the only person in the wrong here. It sounds fucking shallow and brutal but it's true. I mean, we're not great guys for going along with it but we're not wrong.

The guy WILL blame you, though. So, watch out for that.

Actually, thinking about it, I forgot to mention the work place aspect; That's pretty dumb. The whole shitting where you eat thing.

You are completely at fault for the results of your own actions. Instead of asking how ethical this is think about how you feel about the potential consequences.

Hint: There are many consequences to the relationship beyond the reaction of the BF

No, you're not at fault. That said, you're not doing the smart thing either, both in reference to sleeping with someone who is in a relationship, but especially in sleeping with a co-worker. It will come back to bite you in the ass in a real bad way.

Yoshi4507:
So, I'm currently seeing this girl quite often. Friends with benefits thing. Its amazing, dont get me wrong. The only problem though is that she has a boyfriend. To make it better, we are all coworkers. Luckily he doesnt know, but has suspicion. I know she is in the wrong for doing it, but whats bugging me is " how wrong am I in comparison"? At the moment all I can think of is I, m not the one cheating, she is, hes a real d-bag to her anyway, and me always coming to that conclusion is whats bothering me. Whos more wrong?

I would heavily advise you stay away from this girl. If she cheated on her boyfriend with you, whats to keep her from cheating on you with some other guy once she gets tried of you.

You're definitely in the wrong here, even if he's a d-bag to her and she's too afraid to speak up against him. And sleeping with her has only made the situation worse, because now any attempt to rectify the situation is tainted with the perception of "Is she breaking up with him because he's genuinely a bad person to her, or is she making up a bunch of stuff that she never before mentioned as problems to justify breaking up with him to spend more time with you just because she likes your dick" - Which, while probably not the actual case, I can guarantee will be the way ANYONE in the boyfriend's shoes would see it, whether they're an asshole or not to her.

You're involved. You're not only part of her cheating but you're facilitating it. If you're looking to assuage your guilt by saying it's "less bad," then go for it, but it's still a half truth. what you're doing is wrong.

Also, if you get caught, the repercussions are unlikely to be different if you say "hey man, SHE was the one cheating!"

I'm going to go against the flow. When you think of the consequences this might teach him a lesson - don't be a jerk, or you'll lose your lover. And monogamy isn't universal anyway.

That you're so worried about that you've decided to make thread about it seems like a clear indication that you're doing something wrong. If you want to stop having to feel bad about this, I'd say you have make the girl pick whom she wants. If the other guy is a douche to her like you say the choice shouldn't be hard.

Dumb to be involved like that with a bunch of co-workers. If she was a girl you met and you didn't know her boyfriend, I'd say you don't have any fault given that you don't owe her boyfriend any loyalty, but given that you're all co-workers, that means you see the guy on the regular, possibly have hung out with him outside of work. While just being co-workers doesn't mean you owe him loyalty or honesty, the fact that you know the guy personally, still smile in his face, and do this, is kinda fucked up. The cheating is whatever, and I never bought the whole "you're part of it and you're bad," stuff; you're not in their relationship. She is, and she's stepping out. You're wrong for being happy to smile in the guy's face while doing it.

Then again, screw that guy. Who cares? Have a blast, don't have a kid, and don't get your ass kicked if he finds out, lol. Is a message board confession really gonna cause you to change your ways? It seems like you're already against doing it, but you're giving in to lust. What's more important? The booty or your learned morals?

If I were you, I might ease off because you're all co-workers, but if that wasn't the case, I'd stay the course.

So get this guy fired is what I'm really saying.

Yoshi4507:
So, I'm currently seeing this girl quite often. Friends with benefits thing. Its amazing, dont get me wrong. The only problem though is that she has a boyfriend. To make it better, we are all coworkers. Luckily he doesnt know, but has suspicion. I know she is in the wrong for doing it, but whats bugging me is " how wrong am I in comparison"? At the moment all I can think of is I, m not the one cheating, she is, hes a real d-bag to her anyway, and me always coming to that conclusion is whats bothering me. Whos more wrong?

You aren't cheating, but you are still having an influence on the other guy's life, and you are taking advantage of him. It takes two to cheat, and you are complicit. I think her behaviour is "worse", but don't let her (or his) behaviour overshadow yours. If you think you are doing something wrong, it is up to you to do something about it.

You are only in the wrong if you are friend with the guy she's cheating on - in which case you would owe him your good behavior in the bonds of friendship. If he's just a person you happen to work with, then you're not in the wrong in having no regard for (or obligation to) him.* She has obligations and he has obligations between the two of them that they both seem to be violating in different ways right now. Where are your obligations? Then you'll know if you're in the wrong or if you are not.

* I don't hold every human being as obligated to every other human being in existence just because we share a species - at least in the non-life threatening or non-critial social regards.

Yoshi4507:

capper42:
As others have basically said, the best thing to do is to think about it from his perspective. Whether or not you think what you're doing is morally wrong, you'll still be a badguy in his eyes, so the repercussions from him finding out could be very serious.

Have you spoken to the girl about it?

Yes, and she said she isnt going to be with him for long. She hates how he treats her, but is afraid to say anything.

Don't start feeling like a hero just yet, all three of you are at fault here. Look at it from another perspective; some guy is sleeping with your girlfriend. It's pretty simple, really. Furthermore, if you end up with this girl, who knows if she will be unfaithful behind your back.

1. If you have to ask someone, it means you already know the answer and you're only looking towards random strangers on the internet in a desperate attempt to not feel like such a douchebag.

2. If this girl told you, you had to tell this guy you two had been hooking up behind his back would you want to do it? If your answer is no, you already know what you are doing is wrong.

3. This whole notion that cheating is only bad when you're the one in a relationship is ridiculous. You're still a douchebag, you're still in the wrong, and it really does not matter how much more she may be in the wrong than you. You are facilitating cheating, and that is just as bad in my book. Seriously, is it that hard to keep it in your pants?

4. If she was going to break up with this guy, she would have done so already.

5. If she is willing to cheat on someone else with you, you really think she's not going to cheat on you with someone else?

6. How this other guy may or may not cheat her is really irrelevant. If he is abusive to her, she needs to break up with him. Even if he treats her badly, that doesn't excuse what you two are doing. She's a bitch, you're a jerk, and you both deserve each other.

Queen Michael:
You know she's in a relationship but have sex with her anyway? Not okay, dude. Not okay. I mean, let's be honest here: Everybody reading your question agrees that it's better not to do what you're doing. If he's a D-bag, then have her tell him instead of using it as an excuse to do something that, when push comes to shove, you have to agree isn't something that good people do.

tl;dr: You're helping her do something immoral. Not okay.

I think the guilt should be with her, not you. You want to park the beef bus in tuna town, she knows it, you know it. She's a grown woman and can make her own decisions. Unless you roofie her all the time, you have no blame. Don't reduce her to a helpless child by shifting blame on yourself. If you fucked a 100 married girls and each of their husbands found out, it's their decision.

No. You are in the wrong. And you're running to the internet to try and validate yourself.
Break it off with her, tell her to break it off with him, or tell him.
That's my advice anyway.

Yoshi4507:
Whos more wrong?

No one. You're all adults.

Should she break up with him? Probably. But it's not your job to be the relationship police. And it's not a crime for her to cheat. It isn't very nice, but it sounds like that relationship is moving into toxic territory anyway.

On the other hand, do you know what the nature of their arrangement is? Are you sure he doesn't know? They might just have an open arrangement and he might know about everything. Unless she's specifically said otherwise, in which case never mind.

But yeah - if he isn't your friend, then who cares? It's not like you're risking a friendship - you don't like the guy. That's the only danger - well, I suppose homicide might be a danger if he's psycho enough.

/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\

AstroSmash:

Queen Michael:
You know she's in a relationship but have sex with her anyway? Not okay, dude. Not okay. I mean, let's be honest here: Everybody reading your question agrees that it's better not to do what you're doing. If he's a D-bag, then have her tell him instead of using it as an excuse to do something that, when push comes to shove, you have to agree isn't something that good people do.

tl;dr: You're helping her do something immoral. Not okay.

I think the guilt should be with her, not you. You want to park the beef bus in tuna town, she knows it, you know it. She's a grown woman and can make her own decisions. Unless you roofie her all the time, you have no blame. Don't reduce her to a helpless child by shifting blame on yourself. If you fucked a 100 married girls and each of their husbands found out, it's their decision.

I don't think I'm reducing her to a helpless child. I'm just saying that a good person wouldn't help somebody do something immoral. You say that "the guilt should be with her, not you," but I never said she's not guilty. She obviously is. But saying that he has no blame at all is silly. You might as well say that selling a gun to a school shooter who makes his intentions clear from the start isn't immoral, since you're not shooting the people, you're just making sure that the shooter's got a gun to kill innocents with.

EDIT: Okay, I think I've got a better example. Imagine that an Al-Qaida guy has managed to reach the Oval Office to shoot Barack Obama, but runs out of ammo killing his body guards. You're walking by, and he shouts "Please! Ammo! I need to shoot Obama!"
"Okay," you reply and throw him some ammo. He reloads and kills the president. Would you say that you'd done nothing wrong then? And if you would, then what's the difference? You didn't pull the trigger, after all.

tl;dr If somebody wants to do something immoral, then helping them out with it is immoral too.

Queen Michael:

AstroSmash:

Queen Michael:
You know she's in a relationship but have sex with her anyway? Not okay, dude. Not okay. I mean, let's be honest here: Everybody reading your question agrees that it's better not to do what you're doing. If he's a D-bag, then have her tell him instead of using it as an excuse to do something that, when push comes to shove, you have to agree isn't something that good people do.

tl;dr: You're helping her do something immoral. Not okay.

I think the guilt should be with her, not you. You want to park the beef bus in tuna town, she knows it, you know it. She's a grown woman and can make her own decisions. Unless you roofie her all the time, you have no blame. Don't reduce her to a helpless child by shifting blame on yourself. If you fucked a 100 married girls and each of their husbands found out, it's their decision.

I don't think I'm reducing her to a helpless child. I'm just saying that a good person wouldn't help somebody do something immoral. You say that "the guilt should be with her, not you," but I never said she's not guilty. She obviously is. But saying that he has no blame at all is silly. You might as well say that selling a gun to a school shooter who makes his intentions clear from the start isn't immoral, since you're not shooting the people, you're just making sure that the shooter's got a gun to kill innocents with.

EDIT: Okay, I think I've got a better example. Imagine that an Al-Qaida guy has managed to reach the Oval Office to shoot Barack Obama, but runs out of ammo killing his body guards. You're walking by, and he shouts "Please! Ammo! I need to shoot Obama!"
"Okay," you reply and throw him some ammo. He reloads and kills the president. Would you say that you'd done nothing wrong then? And if you would, then what's the difference? You didn't pull the trigger, after all.

The difference is your scenario has actual victims. The only victim in the OPs scenario is the boyfriend's feelings.

Adults are responsible for their feelings.

By your logic, you should be responsible for every aspect of the boyfriend's life. Is he sad because he can't get a job? Help him you immoral bastard!

I'm going to give a completely different analogy.
One that is far more...extreme, but conveys the same general message regardless.

Person A is absolutely enraged at the Person B. They say that that Person B is the most horrible scum on the Earth, and that Person B makes Person A's existence miserable. Person A tells you that they want to shoot Person B. You give the Person A a gun. Person B is now shot to death. Are you guilty of the crime? I'm certain that Person A is, and they know killing is a horrid to do. However, by giving them the gun you basically said "sure, go on right ahead" and enabled them to commit the deed.

I suppose you could replace gun with "sex" and "shot" with "cheated on"...but that other analogy got you thinking, no?
Being an accomplice/enabler means you are guilty, perhaps even more than the person that did the crime (they could have easily calmed down and walked away had they not been given a means to an end by you).

Well bro, you are at fault. It takes two to cheat.

If the guy is a douche like you said, she should just dump him if she wants you instead of putting you in an awkward position. No reason for her to keep leading him on if she is just going to go behind his back with others and you shouldnt encourage such detestable behavior.

As someone who's been in the girl's position...

It doesn't end well. By the same token, you've already done it, so if you're feeling guilty then you'll just feel guilty about it from now on.

Point being; you're not a terrible person and neither is she. Human decision making isn't the greatest in matters of the genitals, I'm afraid, so really, just think about it and consider whether you're cool with this blowing up in your face. And it will.

It will.

If the dude actually IS a massive douche, and it isn't just a) the girl lying about it to justify it for herself or mislead you, or b) YOU lying to yourself to make you feel better, then I say go for it, bro. Just know that the dude might punch you in the face for it. Few outsiders are really going to care, even if they themselves don't really think of it as that cool of a thing to do.

If either a) or b) apply, then pull out quick until they no longer apply.

If he's as bad as you claim, then he's earned it, but note that it could just as easily be her misleading you to make you THINK he's that bad in order to get cheap sex.

You've noted that it's free sex, and not a relationship, so comments like this:

Zakarath:
And, as you so keenly noted, she is in the wrong for doing this. If you care about her at all, why are you helping her get into some potentially rather ugly trouble?

Son of Songhai:
If she cheated on her boyfriend with you, whats to keep her from cheating on you with some other guy once she gets tried of you.

make no sense. Of course you don't care about her beyond just friends, or being exclusive. That's the POINT of friends-with-benefits.

chadachada123:

Zakarath:
And, as you so keenly noted, she is in the wrong for doing this. If you care about her at all, why are you helping her get into some potentially rather ugly trouble?

make no sense. Of course you don't care about her beyond just friends. That's the point of friends-with-benefits.

What? You dont have to be more than friends to care about helping them avoid an ugly situation...

FelixG:

chadachada123:

Zakarath:
And, as you so keenly noted, she is in the wrong for doing this. If you care about her at all, why are you helping her get into some potentially rather ugly trouble?

make no sense. Of course you don't care about her beyond just friends. That's the point of friends-with-benefits.

What? You dont have to be more than friends to care about helping them avoid an ugly situation...

She knows exactly what she's doing. If one of my closest friends said he was gonna need a ride home from a girl's house (that isn't his girlfriend), though I know he's a cheater, I'll still offer to drive him home later, and any problems he reaps is none of my concern. Yes, I am, in essence, helping him cheat, but, again, not my problem.

I'll call him a douche, and morally repugnant, and, if his actions continue, encourage him to break it off before it gets too far, but it won't change how I treat him. OP should, similarly, assuming he is friends with this girl in addition to fuck-buddies, tell her that she's a bit of an immoral bitch but otherwise keep doing his thing until it gets out of hand. It's a bit difficult to make a non-sexual analogy to this situation, but this is, I think, a pretty valid comparison.

I believe it's called "turning a blind eye" and "letting others take responsibility for their own obviously-immoral actions." Pressing the issue comes off as needy/controlling, and violates an implicit agreement to not push those kinds of subjects.

Yeah, if you didn't know, that would be one thing. But you do know, you know that you're sleeping with the girlfriend of a coworker without the coworker's blessing (or whatever). You don't know the details of their relationship because, frankly, you haven't bothered to ask. You even posted "I know she is in the wrong for doing it..." but you don't actually KNOW that, do you?

Since you don't know, your only basis for what's right and wrong is by comparing it from your perspectives. If you had a girlfriend who was sleeping around on you with a guy who knew she was with you, would you be angry at the other person? Basically, put yourself exactly into the shoes of your coworker while removing what you might think you know about this girl.

Also, c'mon, you know what's up and you don't even have the decency to be honest with this guy; hiding behind another person's ignorance to avoid confrontation? There's an adjective we use to describe people who do that... and it's not "brave". This is less of a "right vs wrong" gripe and more of a "maturity vs childishness" thing.

AstroSmash:

Queen Michael:

AstroSmash:

I think the guilt should be with her, not you. You want to park the beef bus in tuna town, she knows it, you know it. She's a grown woman and can make her own decisions. Unless you roofie her all the time, you have no blame. Don't reduce her to a helpless child by shifting blame on yourself. If you fucked a 100 married girls and each of their husbands found out, it's their decision.

I don't think I'm reducing her to a helpless child. I'm just saying that a good person wouldn't help somebody do something immoral. You say that "the guilt should be with her, not you," but I never said she's not guilty. She obviously is. But saying that he has no blame at all is silly. You might as well say that selling a gun to a school shooter who makes his intentions clear from the start isn't immoral, since you're not shooting the people, you're just making sure that the shooter's got a gun to kill innocents with.

EDIT: Okay, I think I've got a better example. Imagine that an Al-Qaida guy has managed to reach the Oval Office to shoot Barack Obama, but runs out of ammo killing his body guards. You're walking by, and he shouts "Please! Ammo! I need to shoot Obama!"
"Okay," you reply and throw him some ammo. He reloads and kills the president. Would you say that you'd done nothing wrong then? And if you would, then what's the difference? You didn't pull the trigger, after all.

The difference is your scenario has actual victims. The only victim in the OPs scenario is the boyfriend's feelings.

Adults are responsible for their feelings.

By your logic, you should be responsible for every aspect of the boyfriend's life. Is he sad because he can't get a job? Help him you immoral bastard!

You couldn't be more wrong. For one, how is the boyfriend not a victim? I see a clear victim right there, unless it was made clear that it's not a monogamous relationship beforehand - which is obviously not the case. Two, you greatly underestimate how many people this can affect. Not only would any children involved be completely fucked by this, the fact that this involves 2 co-workers can potentially affect other workers or even the company as a whole. At the very least, his job could be at stake over this.

Now I'm not much one for getting worked up over people's feelings, but this kind of crap has the potential to do some serious damage psychologically. I've seen firsthand just how much people can be impacted by this kind of thing (I've seen this happen to a married couple with kids before) and how long the scars / grudges from such a thing can last for absolutely everyone involved. Cheating on someone can be so very far from victimless, even if kids aren't involved.

She's in the wrong. But that doesn't mean it's ok for you to keep it going, when it blows up, things are going to get really uncomfortable for you.

Speaking as someone who was the catalyst for a broken off marriage...

You are at fault. Not as much as the girl (Since I'm assuming she's the one that started the whole friends with benefits things.) But if you continued after you found out than yes, you are still a bit a fault.

Mine was a coworker who's fiance started cheating on her after me and her started hanging out. At this point I didn't know she was engaged(no ring to show). And she got me into this game of "If you could do anything you wanted to me, what would you do?" I kissed her, and long story short we ended up in bed together... And after the fun is when she told me about her fiance.

After that we had a similar relationship where we were friends with benefits, and me having a rather starved love life didn't stop it, so I didn't stop it from happening. Partially because "Hey, Sex!", and partially because I knew it wouldn't last; for anyone involved. They wouldn't get back together, and I believe "If she'll cheat with you, she'll cheat one you, so me and her getting together wasn't likely.

Luckily, or unluckily I didn't have to deal with any ugly breakup BS, because she just cut me out of her life completely, and I never tried to patch things up because I know exactly why she ignores my existence.

Yeah, I felt guilty when I heard that they broke it off, and I felt even worse when she cut me out of her life, but when I found out she had been cheating for longer than her and I knew each other, the guilt was assuaged. Mainly, because it went from being the guy who broke up a stable (future)marriage to simply shortening the fuse.

Putting everything else aside, the type of girl who will cheat on her boyfriend and lie to him on a daily basis for such an extended period of time (which is really more painful than the sex itself), is cruelly manipulative at best, and probably borderline sociopathic.

I knew a girl like that, who would say just about anything to anyone in order to get her way. I suspect she was a sex addict to boot, but not in a hot way: she seemed to be so insecure she thought the only way to get people to like her was to manipulate them with sex. Not realising the real reason nobody liked her was because of her ruthless disregard for other people's feelings or viewpoints. Her response to any sort of criticism was always a variation on "I don't care what other people think, I do what I want. Isn't that cool of me?"

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