Am I just at fault?

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Ask yourself this: How much would you hate it if someone did to you what you're doing to her boyfriend? That's how much of a jerk you're being.

V da Mighty Taco:

AstroSmash:

Queen Michael:

I don't think I'm reducing her to a helpless child. I'm just saying that a good person wouldn't help somebody do something immoral. You say that "the guilt should be with her, not you," but I never said she's not guilty. She obviously is. But saying that he has no blame at all is silly. You might as well say that selling a gun to a school shooter who makes his intentions clear from the start isn't immoral, since you're not shooting the people, you're just making sure that the shooter's got a gun to kill innocents with.

EDIT: Okay, I think I've got a better example. Imagine that an Al-Qaida guy has managed to reach the Oval Office to shoot Barack Obama, but runs out of ammo killing his body guards. You're walking by, and he shouts "Please! Ammo! I need to shoot Obama!"
"Okay," you reply and throw him some ammo. He reloads and kills the president. Would you say that you'd done nothing wrong then? And if you would, then what's the difference? You didn't pull the trigger, after all.

The difference is your scenario has actual victims. The only victim in the OPs scenario is the boyfriend's feelings.

Adults are responsible for their feelings.

By your logic, you should be responsible for every aspect of the boyfriend's life. Is he sad because he can't get a job? Help him you immoral bastard!

You couldn't be more wrong. For one, how is the boyfriend not a victim? I see a clear victim right there, unless it was made clear that it's not a monogamous relationship beforehand - which is obviously not the case. Two, you greatly underestimate how many people this can affect. Not only would any children involved be completely fucked by this, the fact that this involves 2 co-workers can potentially affect other workers or even the company as a whole. At the very least, his job could be at stake over this.

Now I'm not much one for getting worked up over people's feelings, but this kind of crap has the potential to do some serious damage psychologically. I've seen firsthand just how much people can be impacted by this kind of thing (I've seen this happen to a married couple with kids before) and how long the scars / grudges from such a thing can last for absolutely everyone involved. Cheating on someone can be so very far from victimless, even if kids aren't involved.

I guess if I'm on the escapist, eating buttered toast has the potential to damage everyone around me psychologically. I was answering the OPs question: Am I at fault?

To which I replied: No, the woman, or the boyfriend is, but definitely not him. To try and live a life where you cant hurt anyone's feelings is just going to lead you to live a life on your own.

I can hurt someone by taking their job by being better than them.
This is what's happening in the OPs scenario.

If he's such a D-bag why doesn't she just leave him? Of course it's wrong for her to cheat but I don't see you saying no to her sooo you're all bad people mkay

Yoshi4507:
So, I'm currently seeing this girl quite often. Friends with benefits thing. Its amazing, dont get me wrong. The only problem though is that she has a boyfriend. To make it better, we are all coworkers. Luckily he doesnt know, but has suspicion. I know she is in the wrong for doing it, but whats bugging me is " how wrong am I in comparison"? At the moment all I can think of is I, m not the one cheating, she is, hes a real d-bag to her anyway, and me always coming to that conclusion is whats bothering me. Whos more wrong?

You are both wrong.

You are wrong for fucking someone who has a boyfriend.
You are wrong for fucking a COWORKER. Don't eat where you Shit! (was was it Shit where you eat? Meh.)

She is wrong for cheating on her boyfriend.
She is wrong for fucking a coworker.

Both of you need to be slapped in the back of the head -_-

Its been going on before they ever got together and before i worked there, it just never kind of stopped. If irs any consolation, hes cheated before on someone else.

AstroSmash:

I guess if I'm on the escapist, eating buttered toast has the potential to damage everyone around me psychologically. I was answering the OPs question: Am I at fault?

That's a non sequitur if I ever saw one.

To which I replied: No, the woman, or the boyfriend is, but definitely not him. To try and live a life where you cant hurt anyone's feelings is just going to lead you to live a life on your own.

In order for a love triangle to blow up spectacularly, three people have to be doing things exactly wrong for a while. Often happens, what with humans being such irrational creatures when it comes to stuff like this.

And I'll say it right out, I'm not innocent in any regard here, I've made my bad decisions, but other people have made theirs.

Bottom line is, it takes three people to create a tangled mess of a love triangle.

Yoshi4507:
If irs any consolation, hes cheated before on someone else.

Consolation...for whom? None of us is affected by this, and it makes no difference to us...it's you who needs to make the decisions here. But when ("when", not "if") these things blow up, it's simply not pretty. Is it worth putting your job quality at risk for some snu-snu, that's the question only you can answer.

Vegosiux:

AstroSmash:

I guess if I'm on the escapist, eating buttered toast has the potential to damage everyone around me psychologically. I was answering the OPs question: Am I at fault?

That's a non sequitur if I ever saw one.

To which I replied: No, the woman, or the boyfriend is, but definitely not him. To try and live a life where you cant hurt anyone's feelings is just going to lead you to live a life on your own.

In order for a love triangle to blow up spectacularly, three people have to be doing things exactly wrong for a while. Often happens, what with humans being such irrational creatures when it comes to stuff like this.

And I'll say it right out, I'm not innocent in any regard here, I've made my bad decisions, but other people have made theirs.

Bottom line is, it takes three people to create a tangled mess of a love triangle.

It actually just takes two people to do that. And they do that by agreeing to enter a relationship. If each of them sleep with a hundred different people, it's still their own problem and their responsibility.

Why should she buy the cow when she can have the milk for free? She's not leaving him because she gets what she likes from him that you lack, and what she likes from you that he lacks - whatever that may be.

Whatever you do, don't have a real relationship w/her, even if she leaves this guy. Because she'll eventually do to you what she's currently doing to him. You'll always remember how you got her in the first place and never be able to trust her.

People (men and women) tend to repeat their mistakes in relationships, even when they are trying to do just the opposite, like the victim of a wife beater who swears never again, who keeps ending up w/guys that beat her - she might be genuinely trying to avoid that type of guy, but somehow subconsciously she keeps self-selecting them -> the only real cure is to fix what's wrong w/herself before starting a new relationship. You need to fix what's wrong w/you that makes you interested in such a lose-lose situation. There's what you tell yourself, then there is your sub-concsious reasoning, often quite different.

Something is wrong that you are so interested in her given the circumstances which has far more possible outcomes that are bad for you than not, look to yourself and figure out why you don't see this and move on. Is she hot and you are simply superficial so her being hot outweighs all other considerations? Did you dislike this guy and enjoy taking something from him, like its a victory over him if you can get her to like you more? Trying to take over his spot as the alpha male? Maybe you didn't even know she was in a relationship at first and now just find yourself in an unexpected quandary. Perhaps she was the aggressor and you are submissive and you'll just go out w/any reasonable seeming candidate that makes the first moves on you (so you'll always be w/aggressive women). Maybe you like her because you like the drama/angst of situations like this. Or you like the taboo nature of the tryst or the danger of getting caught. And its interesting that of all the questions you could have asked - that you didn't ask if you were right or not, but rather whether you were right or not compared to her, do you think if she's more wrong than you that it absolves you from your actions?

What is keeping you w/a woman that is so bad for you (guy could go nuts on you, she could string you along as the 'other man' causing you to miss real opportunities w/better candidates for a relationship, u could fall in love w/her yet she still won't leave him, she could get pregnant and you won't know who the father is, she could get pregnant - tell you you're the father - and you find out years later that he was, word could get out at work and everyone could end up siding w/her (which they probably will if she's hot) making you the leper of the workplace, she could be scared of this guy so when it gets out that you were with her - out of fear of him she could claim you forced her (you said she's scared of him after all), he could get a vd and pass it to her and she passes it to you - double the chance of vd, are relationships against the workplace policy - could get fired/disciplined, there will be bad blood w/either him or her eventually and one of them could be your boss eventually, etc... etc... etc...).

Most sane people would steer clear of this situation yet you embrace it and are only concerned w/whether or not you are more at fault than her. This is how people who end up on jerry springer start. Get yourself clear now, before you get the call to be on his show.

AstroSmash:

It actually just takes two people to do that. And they do that by agreeing to enter a relationship. If each of them sleep with a hundred different people, it's still their own problem and their responsibility.

"Fuck buddies" is "a relationship". The moment you're involved with someone in a way that affects their "main" or "official" relationship, you're involved and have to own up to the responsibility. I mean, you might not be hurting anyone if you go tracking mud in people's houses if they left the door unlocked, but it's still kind of a dick move.

I'll just repeat my usual mantra for relationships...Communication is key, and we'd have so many less problems if we were all just honest with each other.

Yoshi4507:
Its been going on before they ever got together and before i worked there, it just never kind of stopped. If irs any consolation, hes cheated before on someone else.

Not really. I mean, you don't have to justify to US. Vegosiux is right about that. But, it doesn't really mean or change anything.

Okay, homeboy cheated on someone in the past. Now Karma came and is slowly but surely beating his ass.

You're still doing something wrong. In fact, it's sort of worse.

She got involved with this poor guy while still involved with you. Knowing she was still involved with you. And you let her. You had to know she was starting to get exclusive with someone else and you kept it going.

Hell, him being a douche has nothing to do with anything now since this began before they were even a couple. You can't even justify it anymore.

What you're basically saying is that your friend has been cheating on her boyfriend from the very beginning. The entire relationship is now based on one messed up lie. And you're her Other Man.

Both of you are so at fault it's not even funny. And with this new fact, you are both so much more wrong than douchebag boyfriend could ever be right now.

Well, ive come to the conclusion that I am just as much, only cuz now it looks like im hooking up with another coworker. And dont worry, shes single. Appearenty everyone here does. But now i wont let it bother me. More snu snu I guess

Your both of equal blame to me. You know she's got a boyfriend but your fucking her anyways, that's not right. It's one thing if you don't know this person has another lover, but if you know...you're just as much to blame cause you do the right thing and say no, but you didn't. And if he's such a dick to her, then she needs to break up with him, doesn't make her right in cheating. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that.

So...yeah...that guilty feeling? It's there for a reason!

DrunkenMonkey:
So you are essentially the guy the girl is cheating with. Even worse the relationship is purely physical with no emotional attachment. Which means like most cheating couples you don't even have the luxury of the excuse that you belong together. Even more worse you know the guy who's girl you are currently screwing..... and you are asking if you are in the wrong here. Wow.

Yes
Yes. you are in the wrong here
Don't even try to wiggle out of it.

Pretty much all of this. You are just as much at fault as her. The fact that you even have to ask shows that you either lack a moral compass or are really just oblivious.

AstroSmash:

V da Mighty Taco:

AstroSmash:

The difference is your scenario has actual victims. The only victim in the OPs scenario is the boyfriend's feelings.

Adults are responsible for their feelings.

By your logic, you should be responsible for every aspect of the boyfriend's life. Is he sad because he can't get a job? Help him you immoral bastard!

You couldn't be more wrong. For one, how is the boyfriend not a victim? I see a clear victim right there, unless it was made clear that it's not a monogamous relationship beforehand - which is obviously not the case. Two, you greatly underestimate how many people this can affect. Not only would any children involved be completely fucked by this, the fact that this involves 2 co-workers can potentially affect other workers or even the company as a whole. At the very least, his job could be at stake over this.

Now I'm not much one for getting worked up over people's feelings, but this kind of crap has the potential to do some serious damage psychologically. I've seen firsthand just how much people can be impacted by this kind of thing (I've seen this happen to a married couple with kids before) and how long the scars / grudges from such a thing can last for absolutely everyone involved. Cheating on someone can be so very far from victimless, even if kids aren't involved.

I guess if I'm on the escapist, eating buttered toast has the potential to damage everyone around me psychologically. I was answering the OPs question: Am I at fault?

To which I replied: No, the woman, or the boyfriend is, but definitely not him. To try and live a life where you cant hurt anyone's feelings is just going to lead you to live a life on your own.

I can hurt someone by taking their job by being better than them.
This is what's happening in the OPs scenario.

As I said, I'm not much one for worrying about people's feelings at all. Worrying about whether your upsetting anyone is insane and impractical, I agree. However, this kind of thing is an exception as it easily has the potential to completely destroy somebody. When what your doing can genuinely wreck the lives of multiple people, throwing it all to the wind for some short-term pleasure is sociopathic at best. There is a line here, and this type of thing crosses it.

As for the job thing, there is a difference between a job and a relationship. Jobs are always competitive and it's understood that the best survive in the job market. People understand that from the get-go. Relationships, on the other hand, stop being a competition once the relationship has formed unless one of the parties is the clingy, jealous type (which never goes well if that's the case). Part of building a lasting, healthy relationship is understanding that it's no longer a competition and trusting eachother not to go fucking other people unless it's established beforehand that it's okay. That's kind of thing doesn't happens with the job market. Relationships also require opening up and making yourself vulnerable psychologically in order for it to work. Both sides need to know eachother in and out very personally, whereas in a business it's best to keep everything impersonal and strictly business. No personal attachments, and be ready for things to change at any given moment - that's how the job market works. If one treats relationships the same way, one will quickly find themselves in the "forever alone" crowd.

To OP: You were wrong. Very wrong. You know it. As many others have said, be prepared when shit hits the fan (it will) and rethink whether this whole thing worth it. You've set yourself up for potentially losing your job and getting a solid beating or even killed. Is a piece of ass really worth it?

Yoshi4507:
So, I'm currently seeing this girl quite often. Friends with benefits thing. Its amazing, dont get me wrong. The only problem though is that she has a boyfriend. To make it better, we are all coworkers. Luckily he doesnt know, but has suspicion. I know she is in the wrong for doing it, but whats bugging me is " how wrong am I in comparison"? At the moment all I can think of is I, m not the one cheating, she is, hes a real d-bag to her anyway, and me always coming to that conclusion is whats bothering me. Whos more wrong?

What you need to do is frame someone other poor schmuck, all the while pretending to support your squeeze's boyfriend.

CAPTCHA: "oh, you".

Indeed Solve Media. Indeed.

Aris Khandr:
She may be more to blame, but if you knowingly help someone cheat, you're still a jerk. There just isn't any justifying knowingly sleeping with someone else's partner behind their back.

This.

If you were not aware that she had a boyfriend then fine, but you know she has a partner, and you are doing it anyway. You are trying to justify it by saying that he is not a nice person but that is irrelevant. If he is so bad she could always leave him and sleep with you. The fact that she is with him should mean that you should treat her as out of bounds.

You aren't, so yes, you are at fault.

mrblakemiller:
Ask yourself this: How much would you hate it if someone did to you what you're doing to her boyfriend? That's how much of a jerk you're being.

It's amazing that some people cannot seem to grasp this one. I sincerely doubt the people saying he isn't wrong would feel the same if he was screwing their girlfriend.

Speak with the girl, call it off dude. The other guy may be a dbag...but you're the one she's cheating with.

Yoshi4507:

capper42:
As others have basically said, the best thing to do is to think about it from his perspective. Whether or not you think what you're doing is morally wrong, you'll still be a badguy in his eyes, so the repercussions from him finding out could be very serious.

Have you spoken to the girl about it?

Yes, and she said she isnt going to be with him for long. She hates how he treats her, but is afraid to say anything.

So she's afraid of him... then is it really a good idea to be dishonest and give him a reason to be pissed at her?

OT: Knowingly helping a girl cheat is morally wrong from most point of views. He's a real douche? Well two wrongs don't make a right. Be the better person and be honest enough to break it off with him rather than be a douche to him "because he deserves it".

Not at all, you are under no obligation to either party.

If she is willing to cheat on him with you what are the chances she would cheat on him with another individual?

If you were the male's friend then you aren't any more - that is the only potential issue I can foresee.

If you've known that they are a pair prior to beginning of your activities, then your actions are pretty bad.
But any way, I (inexpirienced in love) think that you should not tell the boyfriend about it, but you also should stop seeing each other.
That is just my opinion.

All is fair in love and war...

...but you're likely to get hit if you go banging another dude's girl.

Relationship guru, awaaaay!

Yes, you are at fault. You both knowingly did something that would emotionally hurt another human being for self gain.
What's worse is you could have avoided the whole situation by simply having her break up with her boyfriend beforehand. Or by having sex with someone else.

But what's even worse than that is you trying to justify your actions by calling him a douche-bag, or by assigning her more blame. If you're going to be part of a cheaters triangle, have the balls to admit that you are an asshole. Don't argue it, don't try to underplay it. Be true to yourself, bud.

Legion:

mrblakemiller:
Ask yourself this: How much would you hate it if someone did to you what you're doing to her boyfriend? That's how much of a jerk you're being.

It's amazing that some people cannot seem to grasp this one. I sincerely doubt the people saying he isn't wrong would feel the same if he was screwing their girlfriend.

Someone doing something I don't like doesn't make it immoral. After all, I don't like when people clip their fingernails in public. That doesn't make it a moral issue.

Personally, I tend to see morality as doing harm to someone or what someone owns. And since dating someone doesn't grant you ownership of them, this doesn't seem to be a moral issue on the part of the "other man". The only issue of morality is if the woman in this little triangle has led her boyfriend to believe that they are an exclusive couple.

If you've felt the need to ask, you probably already know the answer. Granted in the same situation I doubt that I'd act different, but put yourself in D-Bag's shoes. Time is not on your side. If I were you I'd insist on this girl dumping her boyfriend if you're going to continue to see each other before things escalate, but then again, if she's been willing to cheat with D-Bag, what's to stop her doing the same to you?

Katatori-kun:
The only issue of morality is if the woman in this little triangle has led her boyfriend to believe that they are an exclusive couple.

This is true, if the girls boyfriend is not under the impression that it's exclusive, then you are right, there is no moral quandary at all.

That said, if that were the case then the OP would have no reason to ask if he is at fault, because surely he'd know that he is not having sex with somebody in an exclusive relationship. I can't imagine it'd be the case and the girl never told him about it.

So I took it as a given that the person he is seeing was in an exclusive relationship.

Legion:

Katatori-kun:
The only issue of morality is if the woman in this little triangle has led her boyfriend to believe that they are an exclusive couple.

This is true, if the girls boyfriend is not under the impression that it's exclusive, then you are right, there is no moral quandary at all.

That said, if that were the case then the OP would have no reason to ask if he is at fault, because surely he'd know that he is not having sex with somebody in an exclusive relationship.

"surely"?

I'm skeptical. But in any case, it doesn't matter if he knows she's in an exclusive relationship or not. She is the one responsible for her relationship. She makes the decisions of who she sleeps with.

Katatori-kun:

I'm skeptical. But in any case, it doesn't matter if he knows she's in an exclusive relationship or not. She is the one responsible for her relationship. She makes the decisions of who she sleeps with.

It's not usually that clear-cut, though. Questions of "morality" aside, I simply can't see myself encouraging or supporting behavior that's going to lead to a shitstorm for everyone involved down the line. There's more than just the responsibility of that one relationship in play here, that's not the only thing at stake. Moral or immoral, that's irrelevant, expecting a love triangle to go on indefinitely without consequence to oneself is simply stupid...especially when it's further complicated by stuff like working with people that are involved with it.

It's that "Do what you wan't, but don't come crying..." sentiment for me, I suppose.

If he's a douchebag then don't sweat it. If he was either neutral or a nice guy then you'd be a dick for doing it.

Vegosiux:
It's not usually that clear-cut, though. Questions of "morality" aside, I simply can't see myself encouraging or supporting behavior that's going to lead to a shitstorm for everyone involved down the line. There's more than just the responsibility of that one relationship in play here, that's not the only thing at stake. Moral or immoral, that's irrelevant, expecting a love triangle to go on indefinitely without consequence to oneself is simply stupid...especially when it's further complicated by stuff like working with people that are involved with it.

You're getting into something different though than what this discussion is about. The OP asked if he was at fault. To me that implies at least responsibility if not moral responsibility. You're talking about if he made the right choice based on practical considerations.

Incidentally, I totally agree with you. It's a pointlessly dramatic situation to put oneself in and I'd never encourage it. But like using a metal fork to fish toast out of a running toaster, while it might be freaking stupid, it's not morally wrong.

Yoshi4507:
Well, ive come to the conclusion that I am just as much, only cuz now it looks like im hooking up with another coworker. And dont worry, shes single. Appearenty everyone here does. But now i wont let it bother me. More snu snu I guess

Wait. Are you saying you've stopped screwing the cheating girlfriend coworker and instead are going to start screwing the single one? Because you know being involved with the slut was a terrible decision? Or are you saying that you know you're particularly wrong because you're now beginning to screw both girls at the same time? And funnily enough, go behind cheating girlfriend's back?

Just want some clarification.

Zakarath:

Yoshi4507:
To make it better, we are all coworkers.

uhh... How does that make it better? Like, at all? I hope that's sarcasm.

Not to answer for him or anything, but...clearly sarcasm. Even over the internet, it's really blatant.

OT: It's your fault as well for being compliant and also for deceiving your other coworker. You are being disingenuous. But as to whom the larger share of blame can be attributed, I'd say it is the one who suggested it. If I were you I'd either make sure the other guy condones it or stop. Not to mention he's a coworker, that could get...unfortunate.

Yes, you are a bad person.

The girlfriend is worse.

But you are also bad.

Yes, you are in the wrong.

If you know you are "the other man" and you keep on with it, you are an accomplice to one of the most despicable crimes a person can commit. Simple as that.

Aside from issues of morality, you should worry about personal safety. People get hurt all the time doing shit like that. I'm not talking about emotional scarring, either. I'm talking about broken bones, smashed teeth, stab wounds, etc. People are universally insane. You don't know how far this guy might be willing to go to get revenge.

Stop this now. Sooner or later, cheating is always discovered. Your luck WILL run out.

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