whats your oposite gender friend situation?
I have no sexual attraction to my freind/s
27% (202)
27% (202)
I have some attraction but no desire to act
33.4% (250)
33.4% (250)
..I wouldnt mind..if the situation came up
25.5% (191)
25.5% (191)
I am freindzoned :'(
5.1% (38)
5.1% (38)
I have no freinds on the oposite gender
8.8% (66)
8.8% (66)
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Poll: Men and women being freinds

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it all sounds easily compartmentable till someone reminds you your partner is supposed to be your best friend...

honestly i dunno.

i have and i've had female friends and i mean really close friends and more female friends than i've ever had male friends (i am not socially comfortable around men and takes me a really long time to call one even a casual friend). but women ? i've had like half a dozen living with me for years at a time and more of them swapping out on rotation (long story but my house was "cool", "in town", "the crash pit" and next to the college) but i've slept with...almost all of them...even the butch and not so butch lesbians...and not, i hasten to add solely at my own instigation.

i've been in "the friend zone" too, gawd was i ever, but...well that was before...

but all the lasting female friends i have now in my 40s i've had sex with at one time or another (even the ones with partners and kids).
it think it does, as AstroSmash suggested, kinda get it out the way in some respects.
ex-lovers can be very close friends indeed imho.
there's a kind of line of intimate trust you cross.

maybe i just know lots of crazy people.

looking back its a distinct possibility.

DevilWithaHalo:
Why don't we ask the public?

Seems like a pretty tight case.

>Implying that a bunch of college age people in Utah are representative of the entire human population (sample size of 10 or so people of the same age group in the same geographical area = fantastic sampling)
>Implying that there are no exceptions to this rule
>Implying that any amount of sexual interest invalidates friendship

I've been friends with quite a few women that I've found VERY unattractive, still cool people to hang out with though

I've also been friends with quite a few women who I really wouldn't mind sleeping with..... they're still friends though (even if I did actually end up sleeping with a few of them : \)

I'll fully admit that I'm sexually attracted to most of my female friends, and I wouldn't hesitate to go there if that's how things unfolded. However, I generally wouldn't try to push things in that direction myself without them making the first move, and that doesn't mean I don't also value them as just friends (in fact, a few of them in particular are some of the closest friends I've ever had). Bottom line, sexual attraction to someone doesn't mean you can't value someone for reasons other than their body, and it doesn't mean you can't also just be friends with that person.

geK0:

>Implying that a bunch of college age people in Utah are representative of the entire human population (sample size of 10 or so people of the same age group in the same geographical area = fantastic sampling)
>Implying that there are no exceptions to this rule
>Implying that any amount of sexual interest invalidates friendship

I've been friends with quite a few women that I've found VERY unattractive, still cool people to hang out with though

I've also been friends with quite a few women who I really wouldn't mind sleeping with..... they're still friends though (even if I did actually end up sleeping with a few of them : \)

Pretty much.

Also, through the magic of editing the guy could have easily deleted away all the people who didn't fit with his video's message. They lie confused and platonic upon the cutting room floor...

NinjaDeathSlap:
I'm a guy who has more girl-friends than guy-friends. I consider all the friendships I have to be satisfactory and worthwhile.

I will confess however, that over the course off every single one of these friendships I have been sexually attracted to the girl on at least one occasion. This doesn't mean I agree that as a heterosexual male any attempt at an innocent friendship with a member of the opposite sex is doomed to failure for me, however neither can I deny that The Power of Hormones is at times much stronger than The Power of Friendship.

Who are you, and how did you get into my brain?

Yeah, I find plenty of my female friends attractive, though I'd never act on it- I respect them too much.

Starik20X6:

NinjaDeathSlap:
I'm a guy who has more girl-friends than guy-friends. I consider all the friendships I have to be satisfactory and worthwhile.

I will confess however, that over the course off every single one of these friendships I have been sexually attracted to the girl on at least one occasion. This doesn't mean I agree that as a heterosexual male any attempt at an innocent friendship with a member of the opposite sex is doomed to failure for me, however neither can I deny that The Power of Hormones is at times much stronger than The Power of Friendship.

Who are you, and how did you get into my brain?

Yeah, I find plenty of my female friends attractive, though I'd never act on it- I respect them too much.

What's this whole connection between sex and respect? Not trying to be confrontational just genuinely asking

If it were true that men and women couldn't be friends because of the possibility of sex, then surely bisexual people wouldn't be able to have any friends at all!

Vault101:

AstroSmash:

I feel like the best way to be good and honest friends with the opposite gender is to engage in sexual activities with them. It sweeps sex off the table and allows for honest friendships. It releases the sexual tension any of you are feeling.
.

...uhhh...WHAT? Ijust.....what??!

yeah..that is pretty skewed, can't speak from expereince but sex seems to complicate things more..you know the old thing where they say a "casual" relationship is hard...but then who knows

:P I expected that kinda reaction. But I find it easier to talk to a girl and be open about a lot things after I slept with her or something...and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Mind you I'm only talking about cases when there's a certain sexual tension between the two. I have female friends I wouldn't really want to park the beef bus in tuna town with.

Nah, sex doesn't complicate anything. People complicate relationships, mostly due to the fact that it's very easy to bullshit yourself into thinking you just want a casual fling, eventhough you want a relationship. But hell, sexuality to me isn't as taboo as to some people.

About the friendzone: Yea, it happens. A lot. You will most likely hear that it's because girls want the attention, but more often than not (at least in my opinion), it's a girls defence against a guy who's a little creepy, but not creepy enough to be called out on. You know he's "...a nice guy, but just stay the fuck away from me."

Guy here. I have had a few female friends over the years, even if I have felt a sexual attraction towards them once, I don't let my feelings rule my life. Ie I don't "think with my dick".

Besides, feeling some attraction towards whatever gender you go for, seem healthy in my book.

Vault101:
http://www.cracked.com/article_20225_6-ways-your-brain-sabotaging-your-sex-life.html

so one old issue that comes up is "men and women can't be freinds because sex" as explained in #1 on cracks article

call me niave but I figure even if there is some attraction it doesnt have to mean they can;t be friends....unless half the time its one big "freindzone" thing going on (what the hell IS the freindzone anyway?)

so I have a few questions

1. is there anyone slightly older (marrie deven) who still had freinds (and only freinds) of the oposite gender?

2. do you have freind fo the oposite gender and how do you feel?

I have plenty of friends of the opposite gender, and I don't find myself attracted to them in a physical way.
Sure, I feel some attraction, being a manly man and all, but I've never made advances on my friends, even when I was single.
Now, I'm in a pretty stable 5 years old relationship and I still go for a coffee with some of my friends and it's normal meeting, without some kind of physical attraction.
So I guess it's possible to have a normal lasting friendship with a the opposite gender.

I think it's possible, it's just incredibly rare. I have exactly two female friends who are both attractive, but whom I'm not attracted to.

The tricky part is the fluidity of the concept of "friendship". The friendship dynamics I have with my dudemeisters is completely distinct from the friendship I have with these two girls.

Basically, I think that men and women can be "just friends", but this "just friendship" is a different sort of friendship.

Vault101:

1. is there anyone slightly older (marrie deven) who still had freinds (and only freinds) of the oposite gender?

I am slightly older and a marrie deven. I am a male and have many female friends who could be categorised into one of these groups (bear with me, I'm making this up as i go):

1) Long term sororal friends: (I had to google that - it's the opposite gender of 'fraternal', i.e: think of as a sister). I have one friend who I have known for probably 30+ years in this category. Objectively I'd say she's hot (tall, blonde, great cans), but ewww, just no.
2) Long term off limits friends: Girlfriends/wives of long term mates. Even if I was single, would not be an option as that's just not cricket. I have maybe half a dozen good friends in this category. Even once they break up with their partners, they generally stay in this category.
3) Friends with no sexual chemistry: Self explanatory. I have a few friends in this category. Have no idea if they find me attractive or not I guess if they are attracted to me, you could consider them "friendzoned". Maybe. I'm not entirely familiar with that concept. Either way nothing happening here.
4) Friends with underlying sexual chemistry: This one's a problem. The ones I fantasise about Female friends who are hot, who I am clearly attracted to (and this maybe is reciprocated) but am just friends with. My wife is quite perceptive about this sort of thing and is really against me spending time with these people. I guess I am able to compartmentalise the friend aspect and sexual attraction well enough to remain friends with these people. Ideally they move into either category 2 or 3 above.
5) Friends with explicit mutual sexual chemistry: Actually less of a problem than the category above. This is where something happens (usually involving lots of alcohol) and a confession of feelings described above. I have 1 friend in this category. We got drunk one night together told each other we were sexually attracted to each other. Since we were both married, it went a long the lines of:
"If I wasn't married, i'd fuck you"
"yeah me too, but I'm married and would never cheat on my wife, so that's never going to happen"
"me neither"
"another scotch then?"
"sure"
We had a pretty awkward conversation the next day, though remarkably mature of us to address this rather than have it fester away and decided it was probably best we don't get drunk by ourselves together again. That was about 6 months ago, and we are still good friends.

I'm sure it's possible, but personally I can't remember any female friend I haven't done it with. Hasn't always ruined the friendship, though it's a risky leap.

Vault101:
call me niave but I figure even if there is some attraction it doesnt have to mean they can;t be friends....unless half the time its one big "freindzone" thing going on (what the hell IS the freindzone anyway?)

so I have a few questions

1. is there anyone slightly older (marrie deven) who still had freinds (and only freinds) of the oposite gender?

2. do you have freind fo the oposite gender and how do you feel?

The "friend zone" is an excuse that, both men and women, use to preserver there self-esteem after getting rejected romantically or sexually by somebody who they have been friends with for a seemingly significant amount of time or a seemingly gentle way of rejecting the advances of a friend. Theres usually not much more to it. As for your questions:

1. I have older friends of both sexes, both married and single, with friends of the other gender without a romantic or sexual interest.

2. I actually had a conversation with one of my frustrated female friends a couple of years back that went something like this;

"Gah! Why are you my only male friend who isn't attracted to me!".

"You're an attractive girl. The only difference between me and them is, despite the attraction, no desire for anything more. Just call it a compliment and move on."

What I was trying to address, even if I may have done so poorly then, was that attraction and only friendship aren't mutually exclusive. However, the majority of relationships seem to spring from friendships, so simply bringing the issue up shouldn't be problematic.

EDIT: As for my own attraction between friends, if we're both single and they're may be a mutual attraction I'll bring it up - but I only ever do this if we haven't been friends for particularly long. A lot of people don't seemt o realise the longer two single people have been friends, the less likely an attraction is mutual. I also don't get madly in love with people outside of a relationship - a lot of people seem to fall in love first, then try to start one. Seems like a recipe for disaster, and these people likely can't be "just friends".

I only have one friend and she happens to be a woman, can't say I feel any sexual attraction for her, though I may be a bad example for that, one time someone suggested that we were a couple and she screamed "EEEWWWW That would be like Incest!" at the same time I said "Uh, but she's like my sister." so I'm pretty sure there's no sexual tension of any sort there.
I haven't seen her since December though, because she got into a DnD group and now she hangs with those guys on the weekends... I'm a bit jealous of that, mostly because when I suggested playing DnD she said it was lame, and now she's playing with those guys, though that's just me being silly, it would have been an awful idea to invite me anyway, I'm not terribly friendly, besides we were never really close anyway...
Uh sorry about that...

Most of my friends are dudes and I don't fancy any of them.*
My boyfriend was my friend before we went out but there was always something between us anyway.

*Am also quite certain none of them fancy me either.

Sex is highly overrated in our culture that's the problem.

So you stop calling your friends "friends", just because you find them attractive? So what? Being friends and having sex isn't mutual exclusive. I've some female friends which whom i had/have sex from time to time but we're friends since ages. That sex topic just never really came up as a specially super important thing.

So my answer is: Of course it's possible to be friends. Sexuall attraction has nothing to do with it.

Can't endorse any generalizations one way or another but given that I'm single and have some attractive single female friends I'm gonna go with no. Once I'm spoken for then I can be comfortable with yes.

I have quite a few female friends, so I'd say it's possible. Not that they aren't attractive (if they weren't my friends I'd think 'yeah, I'd hit that'), but at the moment, I see them all as friends, not in any kind of romantic or sexual way. Yeah, I'm a guy and I totally just said that. Of course, most of them are in relationships anyway (with my guy-friends), but I do understand how women say that when they turn guys down. Over the summer, I did get close to one of them, and we did go out- now we don't, and we're not friends. It makes social gatherings pretty awkward to say the least, I regret the whole saga.

Spinozaad:
I think it's possible, it's just incredibly rare. I have exactly two female friends who are both attractive, but whom I'm not attracted to.

The tricky part is the fluidity of the concept of "friendship". The friendship dynamics I have with my dudemeisters is completely distinct from the friendship I have with these two girls.

Basically, I think that men and women can be "just friends", but this "just friendship" is a different sort of friendship.

rare? don't know about that

I guess how people view their friendship varys from person to person

Vault101:

Spinozaad:
I think it's possible, it's just incredibly rare. I have exactly two female friends who are both attractive, but whom I'm not attracted to.

The tricky part is the fluidity of the concept of "friendship". The friendship dynamics I have with my dudemeisters is completely distinct from the friendship I have with these two girls.

Basically, I think that men and women can be "just friends", but this "just friendship" is a different sort of friendship.

rare? don't know about that

I guess how people view their friendship varys from person to person

An absolutely platonic friendship between a heterosexual guy and gal is, in my eyes, a rarity. Not impossible, but out of 10 female friends/good acquaintances, I'd absolutely put my Bratwurst in the sauerkraut of 8 of them the moment they'd consent to it.

Although I admit that 20% might not be that rare.

Easy way to prove that claim is bogus.

Do you have Sisters (or brothers, depending on gender/orientation)?
Do you have any sexual feelings for them? (dear god I hope you answer this in the negative)
Ergo, it is possible to have platonic relationships with peers of the opposite sex.

Captcha: Yeah right.

What would you know captcha, you don't even have a libido.

This again? As you all can imagine, this topic has been discussed ocasionally.
Well, you all either have Friends on the opposite Gender (or the same if you're homosexual). Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Some people are friends and eventually one falls for the other, or the other way around and the other doesn't.
Sometimes that can be worked out.
I'd say it depends on the nature of the relationship, the nature of the people involved and the nature of every other circumstance. May as well break out the big crystal ball.

BreakfastMan:
That was a pretty BS interpretation of that scientific paper. Just had to get that out of the way...

Anyway, yes, men and women can be friends. I don't see how they can't. To suggest otherwise is pretty damn insulting. :\

Insulting has nothing to do with it. Its an honest question and i'm quite interested in it. The girl i'm currently seeing has way more guy friends than girls. Now we've not told anyone that we're seeing eachother and every guy who "just wanted to be friends" over the course of the last month or so has mentioned that they had feelings.

Its enough to get someone curious.

ClockworkPenguin:
Easy way to prove that claim is bogus.

Do you have Sisters (or brothers, depending on gender/orientation)?
Do you have any sexual feelings for them? (dear god I hope you answer this in the negative)
Ergo, it is possible to have platonic relationships with peers of the opposite sex.

Actually, the reason family members don't usually have sex with eachother is due to bonding pheromones as we grow up. Your body actually puts them down as a "not ok to fuck" marker. Its easily googled and explains why you wouldn't want to bang your supermodel sister.

Id say its a question of semantics really. I find it really hard to believe that two people of the opposite gender who are close have zero sexual attraction between them. However its entirely possible neither act on these attractions, where they might aswell not excist.

Of course they can you silly sausage. Women are just people with vaginas.

Vault101:
http://www.cracked.com/article_20225_6-ways-your-brain-sabotaging-your-sex-life.html

so one old issue that comes up is "men and women can't be freinds because sex" as explained in #1 on cracks article

call me niave but I figure even if there is some attraction it doesnt have to mean they can;t be friends....unless half the time its one big "freindzone" thing going on (what the hell IS the freindzone anyway?)

so I have a few questions

1. is there anyone slightly older (marrie deven) who still had freinds (and only freinds) of the oposite gender?

2. do you have freind fo the oposite gender and how do you feel?

look at these:


and think about it again.

edit: yeah ninja'd.

move along.

Vault101:
(what the hell IS the freindzone anyway?)

You want to stick your genitals together, they do not. Mystery solved.

Well, of course people from oppostie sexes can be friends... and damn good ones at that. To be honest most of my friends are of the opposit sex (that being male) and I have no sexual disires for any of them, and as far as i know and am pretty damn cerain about they have no sexual feelings for me.

To be fair though, one of the guys i consider to be my closest friend, was a kinda weird on-off booti-call for a while. that was at the very start of our friendship when we first started hanging out, we would get drunk together and well one thing would have lead to another. That went on for about 2-3 months. But it was never anything more than that.
We soon came to our senses and now we are best friends, with literally no secrets. We laugh about our crazy period. But it made our friendship stronger. We have no disires for each-other just a love for our friendship.

But honestly i don't get this idea that men and women can't be friends. Granted there may be times when ones feelings may grow. But if you are mature and adult about it then there should be no problem.

I have female friends I have no sexual attraction towards because I do not find them sexually attractive and I have female friends that (should I not be in a long-term relationship) I would have sexual intercourse in a "friends with benefits" fashion or even a romantic fashion should the opportunity present itself.

I view female friends as potential romantic partners. Friendship is not a... "hindrance" to romance, there is nothing so special about it that it should be considered "disrespectful" to approach your friends with romantic proposition.

In fact, I find the whole "it would ruin our friendship" excuse to be despicable and disingenuous. The reason should be "I am not sexually attracted to you".

rhizhim:

silly snip

So if I get a bunch of people to stand in front of a camera and say that men and women CAN be friends, it's totally legit?
Men and women can obviously be friends.
I feel genuinely sad for those who think they cant, they must be cutting themselves off from some potentially really good friendships.

Does this also mean gay people can't be friends with their gender?
Bisexual people can't be friends with anyone?

Here is a post on this topic I enjoy: http://captainawkward.com/2013/01/25/can-men-and-women-be-friends-an-essay-and-a-website-launch/

I would like to vote for the first four please.

Phasmal:

rhizhim:

silly snip

So if I get a bunch of people to stand in front of a camera and say that men and women CAN be friends, it's totally legit?
Men and women can obviously be friends.
I feel genuinely sad for those who think they cant, they must be cutting themselves off from some potentially really good friendships.

Does this also mean gay people can't be friends with their gender?
Bisexual people can't be friends with anyone?

Here is a post on this topic I enjoy: http://captainawkward.com/2013/01/25/can-men-and-women-be-friends-an-essay-and-a-website-launch/

the thing is, there always lingers some kind of attraction and tension between two friend of different genders and same sexual orientation.

and this attraction can either evolve in one of the friends feeling more for the other and just go for it or it can be, depending how "strong" the person is, be inhibited for years until the Westermarck effect kicks in.

The Westermarck effect, or reverse sexual imprinting, is a hypothetical psychological effect through which people who live in close domestic proximity during the first few years of their lives become desensitized to later sexual attraction. This phenomenon, one explanation for the incest taboo, was first hypothesized by Finnish anthropologist Edvard Westermarck in his book The History of Human Marriage (1891).

Observations interpreted as evidence for the Westermarck effect have since been made in many places and cultures, including in the Israeli kibbutz system, and the Chinese Shim-pua marriage customs, as well as in biological-related families.

In the case of the Israeli kibbutzim (collective farms), children were reared somewhat communally in peer groups, based on age, not biological relation. A study of the marriage patterns of these children later in life revealed that out of the nearly 3,000 marriages that occurred across the kibbutz system, only fourteen were between children from the same peer group. Of those fourteen, none had been reared together during the first six years of life. This result suggests that the Westermarck effect operates during the period from birth to the age of six.[1]

When proximity during this critical period does not occur - for example, where a brother and sister are brought up separately, never meeting one another - they may find one another highly sexually attractive when they meet as adults, according to the hypothesis of genetic sexual attraction. This supports the theory that the populations exhibiting the Westermarck effect became predominant because of the deleterious effects of inbreeding on those that didn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect

which i think also applies here since after spending x many years with others you start to consider people "family"

love can be a sneaky bastard and i am sorry for the following. i know i shouldnt use it but:

tell me, how did you meet your current boyfriend and as what relation did you have before becoming "lovers"?

Implying men and women can't be friends cuz sex, is like saying a gay man can't be friends with a straight man cuz sex.

AstroSmash:
I feel like the best way to be good and honest friends with the opposite gender is to engage in sexual activities with them. It sweeps sex off the table and allows for honest friendships. It releases the sexual tension any of you are feeling.

That...doesn't sound right at all. I guess if both parties are equally invested it's not a problem, but the general conundrum I think the topic is trying to address is when one is attracted and the other is not. Because if both are attracted and open enough about it, it wouldn't have started as a friendship in the first place. It would have developed as a regular sexual relationship. In theory.

And don't stop reading here, because I'm not done with you.

Vault101:

And the friendzone is when a woman keeps a guy as a friend, giving him the hope of a prospective relationship, but keeping him around just for the attention.

mabye some women do that but....nah I still dont get it

unless she's said "mabye....I dont want to rush things" <-or somthing to that then honestly she's just freinds with the guy, and mabye its all in his head?

And you've got it, Vault :-) The "friendzone," in its simplest and least skewed form, is when two people are friends and one of them is romantically attracted to the other, but the other doesn't feel the same way.

I had a problem like this once, actually--a friend of mine liked me, but I didn't like him back. He kept flirting with me, and I thought I was making it pretty clear I didn't feel the same. But he kept on persisting, and for a while I was scared to approach the matter because I wasn't sure how much clearer I could make it without being rude and totally breaking his heart. Finally, I took the most cowardly way out and sent him a Facebook message, laying it all out clear. Now we're just fine. Things are back to the way they were before, as far as I can tell. If there are any more problems on his end, he's not telling me.

However, when someone talks of the friendzone like AstroSmash there, then that changes the situation a bit. The way AstroSmash has put it, apparently the girl is making a conscious decision to keep him as a friend because she wants nothing more to torment him. I don't doubt some girls find it amusing to mess with insecure guys, but someone who is friends with you suddenly becoming a manipulative witch? That seems highly unlikely.

Because see, in that situation what is really going on is a breakdown in communication. Because as you can imagine, the situation Astro described can be solved by the guy in a variety of ways. If he hasn't confessed to the girl he likes directly, then he can end the suspense by just asking her. If she rejects him and it's too painful for him to stay around her (which is perfectly understandable), then he is perfectly capable of telling her it might be best if he avoided her. The only way you can remain in the friendzone is if you don't do anything to get yourself out of it. Even though girls are known for communicating with more subtlety, that doesn't necessarily mean they are going to pick up on subtle flirting when it's being used on them. So unless you have done everything in your power to get out of the situation yet somehow you are still friends and somehow she is forcing you to be around her, you have the power to get yourself out of the friendzone.

Other times, the person is in the friend zone is there for worse reasons. The first post in this thread (the post recieved a warning so you'll have to reveal it) illustrates this scary place. Sometimes, a person can be so clingy that even when the girl outright tells them no, they won't take that for an answer. They think that because they have been so nice to her and such a good friend for so long, they've got some sort of a claim on her. If she is interested in someone else, then that person isn't good enough for her, and he tries to convince her of that.

As you can see, that version of the friend zone isn't driven by love or a simple misunderstanding. That is selfishness driven by desperation. If the guy has been told no and still remains friends with her and still tries to go after her, he has nobody but himself to blame for the pain he feels. He got his answer, and refusing to accept that answer and deal with it does not make him a victim. And it certainly doesn't excuse trying to convince the girl the only path to her happiness is through him. That right there is manipulation.

So no, the "friendzone" is not strictly a situation where the boy is being purposefully tormented by the girl. Sometimes the girl can freeze up and drag it on for longer than it should, as is what happened in my case, but at no time is the guy completely powerless to do something about it.

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