whats your oposite gender friend situation?
I have no sexual attraction to my freind/s
26.8% (201)
26.8% (201)
I have some attraction but no desire to act
33.4% (250)
33.4% (250)
..I wouldnt mind..if the situation came up
25.5% (191)
25.5% (191)
I am freindzoned :'(
5.1% (38)
5.1% (38)
I have no freinds on the oposite gender
8.8% (66)
8.8% (66)
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Poll: Men and women being freinds

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I'm male and have friends of the opposite gender. I'm not into the opposite gender though, so that might help.

I know a couple of them have crushes on me, and tend to get waaaay too uncomfortable cuddly with me, which bothers me a little bit, but I'm capable of looking past that.

spartan231490:
I don't believe you. I've seen more than enough real life evidence to the contrary. I've seen quite a few people who said exactly what you're saying, and then later realized how wrong they were. Just because you can maintain a friendship with someone of the opposite gender, doesn't mean that that your friend isn't having problems. Thing is, people tend to hide it from the other person when this is an issue because of the problems it will cause. And just because there haven't been any problems yet, doesn't mean they won't come later down the line, when there's a break-up, or the two of you meet up at a party when you're both smashed, ect. I've seen it time and time again, not that you can't be friends with people of the opposite gender, but these problems will always arise eventually. always.

You do realise that this means bisexuals and pansexuals can't have any friends whatsoever, right? That they are doomed to be forever friendless because these problems, according to you, will always arise eventually? That's absolutely ridiculous.

Ludicrous, even.

[insert Ludacris picture here]

Darken12:

spartan231490:
I don't believe you. I've seen more than enough real life evidence to the contrary. I've seen quite a few people who said exactly what you're saying, and then later realized how wrong they were. Just because you can maintain a friendship with someone of the opposite gender, doesn't mean that that your friend isn't having problems. Thing is, people tend to hide it from the other person when this is an issue because of the problems it will cause. And just because there haven't been any problems yet, doesn't mean they won't come later down the line, when there's a break-up, or the two of you meet up at a party when you're both smashed, ect. I've seen it time and time again, not that you can't be friends with people of the opposite gender, but these problems will always arise eventually. always.

You do realise that this means bisexuals and pansexuals can't have any friends whatsoever, right? That they are doomed to be forever friendless because these problems, according to you, will always arise eventually? That's absolutely ridiculous.

Ludicrous, even.

[insert Ludacris picture here]

Yeah, it's completely ludicrous that human beings would act irrationally out of self-interest and emotion . . . oh wait.

Dijkstra:

spartan231490:

Katatori-kun:

Sorry, but you're wrong. We've had loads of people on this thread testify otherwise. Perhaps you can't maintain friendships with people attractive to you, but a lot of us handle it just fine.

I don't believe you. I've seen more than enough real life evidence to the contrary. I've seen quite a few people who said exactly what you're saying, and then later realized how wrong they were. Just because you can maintain a friendship with someone of the opposite gender, doesn't mean that that your friend isn't having problems. Thing is, people tend to hide it from the other person when this is an issue because of the problems it will cause. And just because there haven't been any problems yet, doesn't mean they won't come later down the line, when there's a break-up, or the two of you meet up at a party when you're both smashed, ect. I've seen it time and time again, not that you can't be friends with people of the opposite gender, but these problems will always arise eventually. always.

Birds of a feather flock together. Your 'real life evidence' is probably more limited to people such as yourself. And it may shock you to learn that if you paid attention to more than yourself you'd see that some people in the thread have plenty of experience of their own.

And nope, the problems needn't always arise eventually. Your failures are not everyone else's no matter how much you may want them to be.

So, for posting an opinion on an opinion thread, something which you almost certainly did as well(on this very thread no less) you have concluded that I am some introverted asshole who never pays attention to others? You can judge me all you want, it doesn't hurt my feelings, I've been around long enough to have self-confidence. Nice try to bully me into silence though.

Also, I am not speaking of just my experience, but the experience of every single person I've ever met, excluding those who aren't even old enough to enter high school. It always causes problems eventually. Say what you want, but ignore me at your own peril.

spartan231490:
Yeah, it's completely ludicrous that human beings would act irrationally out of self-interest and emotion . . . oh wait.

The connection between what you just said and the topic at hand is impenetrable for me (and, I wager, to most of the people reading your post). Please elaborate, because I have no idea how being self-interested, irrational and emotional precludes friendship (after all, we're all self-interested, emotional and irrational to a higher or lower degree, and we still manage to form deep bonds of friendship in spite of that).

While I'm not so much friend-zoned (because that's bullshit), I've recently got disappointed because I realised all this shit that the girl I like did which I interpreted as flirting (and in most other situations I think I would be right to do so) she's been doing with everyone and their dog. I was pissed off initially, mostly at myself for getting my hopes up and not slamming down the cynicism immediately like I usually do when sober, but I'm kind of over it now. I'm still going to hang out with her and I'll still fancy her because frankly there's nothing I can do about that and if anything happens that's great. She's my friend and I still really like her so I'm going to hang out with her.

So yeah, there's that, and I would have sex with most of my female friends. They're all good looking and lovely people which is a lot more selective than most people are, not that I consider myself picky.

I don't get why women don't see things the same way, besides the biological foundation for that perception. I don't understand most things about women though. They're just a constant source of confusion, bemusement, frustration and self-loathing for me. Love, in a nutshell.

Vault101:

so I have a few questions

1. is there anyone slightly older (marrie deven) who still had freinds (and only freinds) of the oposite gender?

2. do you have freind fo the oposite gender and how do you feel?

Old git here.

Yes. You will come across a lot of people in your life. Some of them you will like, some of them you will not. Some of them you will want to have sex with, some of them you will not. Just because you get on with someone of the opposite sex, it does not follow that you also want to fuck them.

Another point, I would guess (or at least it is my experience) that as a general rule, the younger and more pumped full of hormones you are, the more likely you are to want to shag your friends, the older you get, the more picky you become, the more likely someone is going to be flagged up as friend material as opposed to relationship material as the selection criteria become more stringent.

Every damn time this topic comes up, all I can think of are really paranoid conclusions given my current situation.

Important Note: I am not, nor have I ever been, some variety of sex symbol and doubt I have the potential to become one. If I did have such potential, I would be using it to become rich, famous, and have various lesser humans doing my every bidding while I do something horribly embarrassing for all the world to see (but I wouldn't care, because drugs).

I am female. I have, for most of my life, had mostly male friends. This is because I have a lot of interest in things like video games, collectible card games (mostly Magic: the Gathering), fantasy movies/books/TV shows, science fiction, roleplaying, anime, etc. As it was, and sort of still is, these activities were/are mostly enjoyed by males. And also me. So, in order to talk about 95% of things I like without weirding someone out, I had to be friends with guys. This only got worse when I went to college and picked a major with a very tiny number of females in it, leaving me with almost no female friends (and those I am friends with share some of those interests).

So, given all of that, I see a small number of options (aforementioned paranoid conclusions) given the statement "it is not possible for men to be 'just' friends with women":
1) I am sexually desired by every man I am friends with, to the point that our friendship will end because of it (see: I do not think every man is reduced to a slavering sex beast when slightly attracted to any one given female, and I see no need to end any friendship because a dude had a vague crush on me at one point). I am personally not so narcissistic to think this is true, because that is certifiably insane. This is not to say I am friends with a ton of people, but I'm pretty sure that, unless I'm a sex god, I can't be that desirable to every random man I befriend. That is statistically impossible given my current level of attractiveness and the fact that you can't actually photoshop reality (yet. Lookin' at you, Google glasses).
2) I have (virtually) no friends. Every man who claims friendship with me secretly dislikes me to the point of not being attracted to me. Perhaps they regard me as some form of subhuman, and being attracted to me would be like wanting sex with a dog.
3) Along the lines of #2, but: I am not as close to my friends as I think I am. Maybe they invite me places to feel better about themselves ("look me, I friended a girl! Aren't I awesome and totally progressive?") or hang out with me until they can hang out with my husband (who works weird hours sometimes). Perhaps I am just someone they put up with while their real friends are busy. If this is true, I'd imagine them eventually winding up at #2, since I like to talk to my friends a lot.

If men CAN be friends with women? I'd imagine that all of my friends are actually interested in hanging out with me and not secretly sick of me, improbably wildly in love with me, or bored with my existence. Then again, I don't think small amounts of sexual attraction are friendship-ruiners (I am not the thought police, and if I was, a lot of people would probably be arrested for much worse). It's only when we hit unrequited love that this becomes an issue, and only if you can't get over the person you're in love with (yes, it is possible to be "friend-zoned" and eventually become ok with that and move on with your life).

spartan231490:

Dijkstra:

spartan231490:

I don't believe you. I've seen more than enough real life evidence to the contrary. I've seen quite a few people who said exactly what you're saying, and then later realized how wrong they were. Just because you can maintain a friendship with someone of the opposite gender, doesn't mean that that your friend isn't having problems. Thing is, people tend to hide it from the other person when this is an issue because of the problems it will cause. And just because there haven't been any problems yet, doesn't mean they won't come later down the line, when there's a break-up, or the two of you meet up at a party when you're both smashed, ect. I've seen it time and time again, not that you can't be friends with people of the opposite gender, but these problems will always arise eventually. always.

Birds of a feather flock together. Your 'real life evidence' is probably more limited to people such as yourself. And it may shock you to learn that if you paid attention to more than yourself you'd see that some people in the thread have plenty of experience of their own.

And nope, the problems needn't always arise eventually. Your failures are not everyone else's no matter how much you may want them to be.

So, for posting an opinion on an opinion thread, something which you almost certainly did as well(on this very thread no less) you have concluded that I am some introverted asshole who never pays attention to others?

Nope. For ignoring that other people have had different experiences and smugly dismissing it instead of becoming more informed.

You can judge me all you want, it doesn't hurt my feelings, I've been around long enough to have self-confidence. Nice try to bully me into silence though.

Bully? Disagreement is not bullying. That accusation puts your previous statements in an even worse light.

Also, I am not speaking of just my experience, but the experience of every single person I've ever met, excluding those who aren't even old enough to enter high school. It always causes problems eventually. Say what you want, but ignore me at your own peril.

Oh wow, I didn't realize I was talking to someone who had actually met other people! How could I have known you'd actually MET other people! No one does that! I guess your opinion is the most special one after all!

Someone not even being in high school doesn't make their opinion MORE worthwhile.

Katatori-kun:

spartan231490:
I don't believe you. I've seen more than enough real life evidence to the contrary.

I'd like you to take a moment and think about how blisteringly arrogant it is for you to presume you know the friendships many of us in this thread are in better than we do ourselves. Just... think about that.

I've seen quite a few people who said exactly what you're saying, and then later realized how wrong they were.

So? I saw a lot of people who couldn't drive a stick-shift. That doesn't mean humans are incapable of driving stick-shifts.

Just because you can maintain a friendship with someone of the opposite gender, doesn't mean that that your friend isn't having problems.

While that's true, you can't just assume that they are having problems just because it fits into your neat little theory.

And just because there haven't been any problems yet, doesn't mean they won't come later down the line, when there's a break-up, or the two of you meet up at a party when you're both smashed, ect.

In several of the cases we have met at parties when we were smashed and ended up fine. I mean, yeah, it's always possible that the unexpected may happen, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen.

I've seen it time and time again, not that you can't be friends with people of the opposite gender, but these problems will always arise eventually. always.

Your experience is limited. It doesn't always happen. I've had friendships for years where it didn't, and one or the other of us is now happily married and in another country. Face it, you're wrong. You can only speak for yourself and the people you know, not for what is possible for everyone.

1 Go ahead, call me arrogant, doesn't hurt my feelings. I know I'm not arrogant, I made a statement of opinion, based on my own personal experiences. Considering this whole thread is about opinions based on people personal experiences, I think it's ironic for you to call me arrogant for doing only that, when people like you not only do that, but also belittle the opinions of others.

2 The difference is, you have seen people who can drive stick shift, I've never seen any relationship where one person was attracted to another that didn't have serious problems.

3 You can't just assume that they aren't, I was simply pointing out that just because you aren't aware of a problem doesn't mean that there isn't one. My evidence supporting my opinion is that I've never seen any relationship that didn't have serious problems come from attraction unless both parties were completely unattracted to the other.

4 again, see post 3. i was pointing out that just because the problem hadn't become apparent yet, doesn't mean that it won't. This isn't part of my supporting argument.

5 I don't have to face anything. You're experience is no greater than mine, it is just as susceptible to your own ignorance. This isn't a debate with a right answer, this is just people with opinions stating them. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong. I gave my opinion to the OP, who asked for it, you're the only ones trying to prove anything. Just don't expect me to roll over and be convinced by bad anecdotal evidence.

The difference between us, is that you think I'm trying to convince you. I'm not, I'm offering my opinion and defending it. I don't care if you believe me, but if you ask me why I say a certain thing, I'm going to answer. And by quoting me and calling me wrong, you are implicitly asking me why I say things.

rhizhim:
snip

oh well that proves everything then!/sarcasm

Dijkstra:

spartan231490:

Dijkstra:

Birds of a feather flock together. Your 'real life evidence' is probably more limited to people such as yourself. And it may shock you to learn that if you paid attention to more than yourself you'd see that some people in the thread have plenty of experience of their own.

And nope, the problems needn't always arise eventually. Your failures are not everyone else's no matter how much you may want them to be.

So, for posting an opinion on an opinion thread, something which you almost certainly did as well(on this very thread no less) you have concluded that I am some introverted asshole who never pays attention to others?

Nope. For ignoring that other people have had different experiences and smugly dismissing it instead of becoming more informed.

You can judge me all you want, it doesn't hurt my feelings, I've been around long enough to have self-confidence. Nice try to bully me into silence though.

Bully? Disagreement is not bullying. That accusation puts your previous statements in an even worse light.

Also, I am not speaking of just my experience, but the experience of every single person I've ever met, excluding those who aren't even old enough to enter high school. It always causes problems eventually. Say what you want, but ignore me at your own peril.

Oh wow, I didn't realize I was talking to someone who had actually met other people! How could I have known you'd actually MET other people! No one does that! I guess your opinion is the most special one after all!

Someone not even being in high school doesn't make their opinion MORE worthwhile.

Of course I'm going to dismiss it, anecdotal evidence isn't proof, it's subject to all kinds of biases, particularly confirmation bias, and certainly not reliable enough to change my opinion for. See, I'm not trying to convince anyone. This thread asked my opinion, I gave it, and I defended it. I don't care if you don't believe me. I'm am quite confident that time will out. I never meant to imply this was fact, I assumed that because this was a thread that is inherently about opinion, people would understand this was only my opinion. I didn't feel the need to put an idiot disclaimer on it.

Disagreement isn't bullying no, implying that I don't have any friends and am introverted and a failure is. Outright saying that I don't pay attention to anything other than myself with snarky dismissal of my value as a human being is.

Again with the bullying and sarcasm, it doesn't make you look smarter, it makes you look like an asshole.

I never said not even being in high school doesn't make their opinion more worthwhile, I in fact said that I didn't count the experiences of people I know who aren't old enough to be in high school because most of them haven't even had a serious relationship yet. I made no attempts to judge their opinions, that is probably you projecting all the judgementality that you've been throwing at me onto my words. All opinions are meaningless as far as evidence goes, even mine, but that doesn't mean I don't have the right to state my opinion when asked for it.

Darken12:

spartan231490:
Yeah, it's completely ludicrous that human beings would act irrationally out of self-interest and emotion . . . oh wait.

The connection between what you just said and the topic at hand is impenetrable for me (and, I wager, to most of the people reading your post). Please elaborate, because I have no idea how being self-interested, irrational and emotional precludes friendship (after all, we're all self-interested, emotional and irrational to a higher or lower degree, and we still manage to form deep bonds of friendship in spite of that).

The connection is obvious, that people would seek what they want(the person they're attracted to) even when it is irrational, and harmful to the relationship or to the other person(like if they're in a relationship), because human beings are emotional, selfish, irrational beings.

DevilWithaHalo:
He very well could have; after all, it seems more comedic than anything else, so perhaps his motivations were purely comedic in nature. But I find people's responses to it more interesting that I do the actual content of the video in question. Perhaps we should chalk it up to confirmation bias eh?

that video is about as much solid evidence as my poll..in fact I'd say the poll is better because its got more answers..but whatever

I wouldn't argue against being skeptical about someone's research, especially if they have a vested interest in it's outcome. But while we accept that, so too must we accept the possibility of its legitimacy. So we continue to research the subject, and if continued findings tend to trend toward a certain outcome... well... what would you think?

so if thease studies are true what should we be takning away from them? only be freinds with your own gender?

Darken12:

spartan231490:
Yeah, it's completely ludicrous that human beings would act irrationally out of self-interest and emotion . . . oh wait.

The connection between what you just said and the topic at hand is impenetrable for me (and, I wager, to most of the people reading your post). Please elaborate, because I have no idea how being self-interested, irrational and emotional precludes friendship (after all, we're all self-interested, emotional and irrational to a higher or lower degree, and we still manage to form deep bonds of friendship in spite of that).

Don't look at me, I'm lost as well.

spartan231490:

Of course I'm going to dismiss it, anecdotal evidence isn't proof, it's subject to all kinds of biases, particularly confirmation bias, and certainly not reliable enough to change my opinion for. See, I'm not trying to convince anyone. This thread asked my opinion, I gave it, and I defended it.

... And then you told many other people that their opinions were invalid and they must be lying, because their personal experiences didn't align with your own.

SimpleThunda':

Mr F.:
Last year two of my closest friends were female. The other was a dude. That's normal for me. Would I have gone for any of them? Nope. They were all good looking people, but the bloke was married with two kids, one of the girls had two kids and the other girl I genuinely valued my friendship a lot more.

SimpleThunda':

A neutral "I'd do that" as in, I couldn't care less if it didn't happen is borderline acceptable. Anything more than that isn't, in my book. But to each his own.

You, ser, have a worldview that I disagree with wholeheartedly. Shameful? Staying friends with people who have feelings for your is shameful?

My best friend throughout sixth form (Who would still be my friend if it were not for distance) was in love with me. Totally and utterly. He knew it, I knew it, my girlfriend knew it, we just left it at that. He would never do anything (Cause he knew I was in love, he knew my girlfriend was in love and he didn't want to fuck shit up) and I would never do anything. Feelings were not hurt.

Part of growing up is accepting that not all love is mutual, that not all attraction is mutual and that you can move on. Cutting all ties and burning all bridges just because you are facing unrequited love is insane!

It doesn't matter if you feel an attraction. It matters if you know what is appropriate. I am still attracted to some of my friends (Despite being in a loving relationship) and I know some of those people are attracted to me. Doesn't mean I will cut them out of my life.

The thing is, you'll probably want to stay friends with them on the off-chance that they change their mind and suddenly fall in love with you.

You'll be treating them better than you should on the off-chance that they change their mind and suddenly fall in love with you.

If this is honestly not true for you, then perhaps -you- are not shameful in staying friends, but in that case, I do get the impression that you truly don't care much about potentially having a relationship in the future, which is something I adressed.

For the majority, however, this is untrue and I've seen it happen countless times. And it's shameful.

The friendzone is a shameful place to be.

Even worse, your love interest may put and keep you there on purpose.

Like I said, to each his own, but I hold no respect for someone who keeps himself in such a position on the basis of hope for an eventual relationship which is never going to happen. Those kind of people need to stop lying to themselves and apparently be hit in the face a little bit harder with the bat of reality.

Again with use of the word shameful!

Personally, I do not believe the friendzone is a thing. Lots of people claim it is even though it usually boils down to this: I like someone sexually, they don't they just want to be friends, WHAT A BITCH FRIENDZONE. The "Friendzone" is simply something people bitch about because those that they want to bone don't want to bone them. It boils down to either A) My friend doesn't want to sex me up or B) I wanted to sex someone up but they wanted me as a friend instead for whatever reason.

I really cannot tell your position whatsoever. Are you saying that remaining friends with someone BECAUSE you want to bone them is bad? Cause yeah, thats bad. Ish. Its human, nothing more. Or are you saying that people should not be friends with those they have feelings for REGARDLESS? My old friend (Its hard to remember to not use names, I cannot remember if he is out or not.) fucking loved me, I loved him like a brother, he had my back through the hardest shit I have ever gone through. Without him I would have broken even more then I did, without me he would have collapsed. Was that friendship shameful?

If you are simply arguing that people should not remain friends with people PURELY because they want to bone them, I agree. Ish. But if your argument is what it seems to be, that being friends with someone you have feelings for REGARDLESS of your intentions towards those feelings is a shameful thing, then what the fuck bro? Seriously?

*sigh* the term Friendzone just pisses me the fuck off. Instantly. It manages to combine being juvenile with being sexist. And the worst thing is people in their 20's will still use it, unironicly.

Tell me, has my female friend who is dating one of my male friends and friends with my girlfriend put me in the frienzone? (Read that till it makes sense.) Did I put my best male friend in the friendzone? Or is the friendzone ONLY for single guys? If the relationship changes in no way, is it sill the friendzone?

Or is the frienzone some shifting ethereal place that exists on no map and is only used as an excuse by foreveraloners/Tools for why they are single?

EDIT: Just realised that was a mostly off topic rant.

Yes, you can be friends with people of the opposite sex. No, it does not always cause issues (And does not in the MAJORITY of cases). Christ, just look at your fucking parents! (I say that because most people here are under the age of 30, like myself). How many of them have had friends of the opposite sex for fucking YEARS. Seriously. For fucks sake. This entire debate is so juvenile.

If you cannot look further then someones junk, its about time you grew up. And if you are attracted to someone and that somehow DESTROYS ANY ABILITY YOU HAVE TO JUST BE FRIENDS WITH THEM then the same applies.

Fucking seriously. Peace out.

(I aint raging at you, SimpleThunda, I read up and saw some of the posts. I am raging in general at the total lack of maturity that this thread is showing.)

spartan231490:
The connection is obvious, that people would seek what they want(the person they're attracted to) even when it is irrational, and harmful to the relationship or to the other person(like if they're in a relationship), because human beings are emotional, selfish, irrational beings.

You seem to believe all humans are teenagers. No, not even that, because I've met several teenagers who are easily capable of not making stupid decisions. In fact, according to your theory, humans are physically incapable of not making bad decisions. According to you, it's only a matter of time before I stick my head in the freezer because I've always been slightly curious about how it'd feel like. Or before my warmth-loving friend sets his house on fire on purpose because he just can't help himself. Or that bisexual and pansexual people will end up sabotaging all their friendships because you just can't fight fate.

Wow, what a depressing (and easily disprovable) worldview you have.

boots:

Darken12:

spartan231490:
Yeah, it's completely ludicrous that human beings would act irrationally out of self-interest and emotion . . . oh wait.

The connection between what you just said and the topic at hand is impenetrable for me (and, I wager, to most of the people reading your post). Please elaborate, because I have no idea how being self-interested, irrational and emotional precludes friendship (after all, we're all self-interested, emotional and irrational to a higher or lower degree, and we still manage to form deep bonds of friendship in spite of that).

Don't look at me, I'm lost as well.

spartan231490:

Of course I'm going to dismiss it, anecdotal evidence isn't proof, it's subject to all kinds of biases, particularly confirmation bias, and certainly not reliable enough to change my opinion for. See, I'm not trying to convince anyone. This thread asked my opinion, I gave it, and I defended it.

... And then you told many other people that their opinions were invalid and they must be lying, because their personal experiences didn't align with your own.

No, I didn't. I suggested why I thought that their experiences didn't seem to match my hypothesis. You were the ones who told me that I was small and arrogant, and self-absorbed and all that bullshit. You're just projecting your own aggression on my posts.

I have a number of female friends. Some of them I'm attracted to, and some of them I'm not. Some of them I wouldn't mind sleeping with, and some of them I would. Note that the latter group is not identical to the former. Currently I'm dating, so anything of that nature is off limits in my mind. If I wasn't dating, then I guess I wouldn't mind messing around with a few of my female friends, but there are very few of them that I'd consider pursuing a long term relationship with.

The whole thing about men and woman not being able to be friends is ridiculous in my mind though. Even if men WERE attracted to all of their female friends, being willing to bang someone if they offered does not somehow negate the value of your friendship. I find that unwarranted expectations and inability to properly prioritize romantic feelings tend to be the real issues. Thankfully, not all people are so juvenile as to possess zero self control in that regard.

I don't mean to sound big headed but every time I became good friends with a girl in school she became attracted to me. Only happened about 3 or 4 times.

And now every time I become good friends with a girl (usually a work college) I start to fall for her.

So in my personal experience opposite sexes can't be good friends and stay without feelings (either way). But if you're both strong enough you can ignore those urges and remain good friends.

Also the friend zone thing is very real. It might not be something people do intentionally, but it happens all the time. I've been friend zoned by every girl I've made a pass at since I left school.

Darken12:

spartan231490:
The connection is obvious, that people would seek what they want(the person they're attracted to) even when it is irrational, and harmful to the relationship or to the other person(like if they're in a relationship), because human beings are emotional, selfish, irrational beings.

You seem to believe all humans are teenagers. No, not even that, because I've met several teenagers who are easily capable of not making stupid decisions. In fact, according to your theory, humans are physically incapable of not making bad decisions. According to you, it's only a matter of time before I stick my head in the freezer because I've always been slightly curious about how it'd feel like. Or before my warmth-loving friend sets his house on fire on purpose because he just can't help himself. Or that bisexual and pansexual people will end up sabotaging all their friendships because you just can't fight fate.

Wow, what a depressing (and easily disprovable) worldview you have.

Really, you're claiming that you've never made an irrational, emotional, selfish decision? Further, I never said it was a bad decisions, I said irrational. everyone makes irrational decisions almost all the time. You are making a straw man of my argument, not all irrational decisions involve you setting your house on fire, sometimes it just means punching it to see how fast your car can go, even if a deer might jump out in front of it. Or buying a lotto ticket, or playing basically any casino game, or a game of ring toss at the fair, or buying that bag of chips even when you need to lose 20 pounds, or not doing your homework.

If it's so easy to disprove the idea that all humans make irrational decisions, go ahead then, disprove it. I'm waiting. Find me one adult who never made an irrational decision. I'll wait.

CardinalPiggles:

Also the friend zone thing is very real. It might not be something people do intentionally, but it happens all the time. I've been friend zoned by every girl I've made a pass at since I left school.

I dont get the freind zone thing...it implys there some magical formula of time+your behaviour which when added up incorrectly results in this thing we call "freindzone"

I always figures your into her...she's not

spartan231490:
Really, you're claiming that you've never made an irrational, emotional, selfish decision? Further, I never said it was a bad decisions, I said irrational. everyone makes irrational decisions almost all the time. You are making a straw man of my argument, not all irrational decisions involve you setting your house on fire, sometimes it just means punching it to see how fast your car can go, even if a deer might jump out in front of it. Or buying a lotto ticket, or playing basically any casino game, or a game of ring toss at the fair, or buying that bag of chips even when you need to lose 20 pounds, or not doing your homework.

If it's so easy to disprove the idea that all humans make irrational decisions, go ahead then, disprove it. I'm waiting. Find me one adult who never made an irrational decision. I'll wait.

One (or a few) irrational decisions in your life doesn't mean that you must always make irrational decisions. Your post said that all friendships between people of their preferred gender will always (eventually) end up with someone making an irrational decision. You are not saying that people sometimes make irrational decisions, you are saying that you will always make them eventually, that they are inescapable. That is something I can easily disprove by telling you to look around and asking you to tell me what percentage of the people you can see are currently on fire, bleeding, broken, bruised, or similarly harmed by the irrational decisions they've made. If the percentage is not 100%, you're wrong.

Darken12:

spartan231490:
Really, you're claiming that you've never made an irrational, emotional, selfish decision? Further, I never said it was a bad decisions, I said irrational. everyone makes irrational decisions almost all the time. You are making a straw man of my argument, not all irrational decisions involve you setting your house on fire, sometimes it just means punching it to see how fast your car can go, even if a deer might jump out in front of it. Or buying a lotto ticket, or playing basically any casino game, or a game of ring toss at the fair, or buying that bag of chips even when you need to lose 20 pounds, or not doing your homework.

If it's so easy to disprove the idea that all humans make irrational decisions, go ahead then, disprove it. I'm waiting. Find me one adult who never made an irrational decision. I'll wait.

One (or a few) irrational decisions in your life doesn't mean that you must always make irrational decisions. Your post said that all friendships between people of their preferred gender will always (eventually) end up with someone making an irrational decision. You are not saying that people sometimes make irrational decisions, you are saying that you will always make them eventually, that they are inescapable. That is something I can easily disprove by telling you to look around and asking you to tell me what percentage of the people you can see are currently on fire, bleeding, broken, bruised, or similarly harmed by the irrational decisions they've made. If the percentage is not 100%, you're wrong.

False equivalence. Straw man. Just because people don't make suicidal decisions doesn't mean that they won't make irrational decisions.

spartan231490:
False equivalence. Straw man. Just because people don't make suicidal decisions doesn't mean that they won't make irrational decisions.

And you, my friend, are dodging the question. ;)

While a lot of people gamble or play the lottery, not everyone does. I have never gambled in my life because I'm fully aware that it's throwing my money away (if I find myself with a surplus of money I don't have an immediate use for, I either save it or donate it). Not everyone thrill-seeks, not everyone lashes out at their bosses, not everyone is a slave to their emotions. Just some people. And even then, it's not deterministic; people can change or grow out of making constantly irrational decisions.

Remember: your argument is that everyone will always make irrational decisions. You can keep dodging all you want, but everyone reading already knows this reasoning is utterly ridiculous. Because, again: bisexuals and pansexuals. Saying that anywhere from 10 to 20% of the population can never have any friends whatsoever is so ridiculous it's practically self-defeating.

All but one of my friends is female, and most of them I've already had sexual relations with. I don't want to actively pursue sex with them, but I don't say no when the chance arises.

The way I look at it, sex is just sex, and since we're such good friends there's a great emotional connection too without it getting... weird.

spartan231490:

Darken12:

spartan231490:
The connection is obvious, that people would seek what they want(the person they're attracted to) even when it is irrational, and harmful to the relationship or to the other person(like if they're in a relationship), because human beings are emotional, selfish, irrational beings.

You seem to believe all humans are teenagers. No, not even that, because I've met several teenagers who are easily capable of not making stupid decisions. In fact, according to your theory, humans are physically incapable of not making bad decisions. According to you, it's only a matter of time before I stick my head in the freezer because I've always been slightly curious about how it'd feel like. Or before my warmth-loving friend sets his house on fire on purpose because he just can't help himself. Or that bisexual and pansexual people will end up sabotaging all their friendships because you just can't fight fate.

Wow, what a depressing (and easily disprovable) worldview you have.

Really, you're claiming that you've never made an irrational, emotional, selfish decision? Further, I never said it was a bad decisions, I said irrational. everyone makes irrational decisions almost all the time. You are making a straw man of my argument, not all irrational decisions involve you setting your house on fire, sometimes it just means punching it to see how fast your car can go, even if a deer might jump out in front of it. Or buying a lotto ticket, or playing basically any casino game, or a game of ring toss at the fair, or buying that bag of chips even when you need to lose 20 pounds, or not doing your homework.

If it's so easy to disprove the idea that all humans make irrational decisions, go ahead then, disprove it. I'm waiting. Find me one adult who never made an irrational decision. I'll wait.

It appears you're disregarding the context of the situation in favor of an overarching concept that's far more broadly applicable. Humans will almost inevitably make an error at some point in their lives, yes. That doesn't mean they will inevitably cheat on their partner, or inevitably ruin a friendship in pursuit of selfish goals, especially after they've grown wise enough to consciously avoid such pitfalls.

Humans are more than capable of avoiding certain errors or irrational decisions for the entirety of their lives or after a certain point in their lives.

That said, I don't know if you're trying to say ALL humans will seek out a certain partner when it's clearly harmful to do so, or if it's just a common occurrence. If you're saying the former, then you're obviously wrong.

Vault101:

CardinalPiggles:

Also the friend zone thing is very real. It might not be something people do intentionally, but it happens all the time. I've been friend zoned by every girl I've made a pass at since I left school.

I dont get the freind zone thing...it implys there some magical formula of time+your behaviour which when added up incorrectly results in this thing we call "freindzone"

I always figures your into her...she's not

A girl sticking you in the friend zone is like keeping you around because she knows you like her, and therefore will do her favours and just generally be her bitch, but at the same time keeping you interested.

A girl at work leads on pretty much every guy that she thinks she can, and they always fall for it, myself included. Soon after it's, "can you just do this for me" every 10 minutes. "Oh go on" *bats eyelids*, "please" *pretends to look sad*.

Some girls know perfectly well how to take advantage of a mans sexual desires.

CardinalPiggles:

A girl sticking you in the friend zone is like keeping you around because she knows you like her, and therefore will do her favours and just generally be her bitch, but at the same time keeping you interested.
.

how do we know if she's doing it on purpose ot if its in his head?

if a girl is INTENTIONALY sticking a guy in the "freindzone" that sucks but he should at least realise "hmmm perhaps this freindship is not healthy" clearly neither party wants the other as an actual "freind"

Mr F.:

Personally, I do not believe the friendzone is a thing. Lots of people claim it is even though it usually boils down to this: I like someone sexually, they don't they just want to be friends, WHAT A BITCH FRIENDZONE. The "Friendzone" is simply something people bitch about because those that they want to bone don't want to bone them. It boils down to either A) My friend doesn't want to sex me up or B) I wanted to sex someone up but they wanted me as a friend instead for whatever reason.

And why aren't either of those two criteria sufficient to make the friendzone a "thing"? You've established it as a phenomenon.

I think we all too often ignore the way the word is used. It's almost always in the context you've indicated. It's not meant to be a scientific description of psychological processes. This leads to the confusion of thinghood by not paying attention to the category it properly belongs.

Blood Brain Barrier:

Mr F.:

Personally, I do not believe the friendzone is a thing. Lots of people claim it is even though it usually boils down to this: I like someone sexually, they don't they just want to be friends, WHAT A BITCH FRIENDZONE. The "Friendzone" is simply something people bitch about because those that they want to bone don't want to bone them. It boils down to either A) My friend doesn't want to sex me up or B) I wanted to sex someone up but they wanted me as a friend instead for whatever reason.

And why aren't either of those two criteria sufficient to make the friendzone a "thing"? You've established it as a phenomenon.

Because those are just accidents of life. When people use the term friendzone they act like it is a creation, a thing that is being used to manipulate people. It isn't on any level.

Those two "Things" are not enough criteria to establish the friendzone as anything more then normal human interaction combined with people being asshurt about normal human interaction going their way.

I mean, fuck, what does it really mean? "I met someone and they want to be my friend". Congratulations, You made a friend!

Seriously.

Vault101:

CardinalPiggles:

A girl sticking you in the friend zone is like keeping you around because she knows you like her, and therefore will do her favours and just generally be her bitch, but at the same time keeping you interested.
.

how do we know if she's doing it on purpose ot if its in his head?

if a girl is INTENTIONALY sticking a guy in the "freindzone" that sucks but he should at least realise "hmmm perhaps this freindship is not healthy" clearly neither party wants the other as an actual "freind"

You can't know, but some make it quite obvious, so fuck those people.

Also, you must underestimate the power of a mans sexual desires. Some men don't realise even when told that's what's happening. They'd piss off their real friends for that tiny 'chance' that they might get laid. It's really sad to see some people so desperate for sex that they would let people manipulate them like that.

Mr F.:

Blood Brain Barrier:

Mr F.:

Personally, I do not believe the friendzone is a thing. Lots of people claim it is even though it usually boils down to this: I like someone sexually, they don't they just want to be friends, WHAT A BITCH FRIENDZONE. The "Friendzone" is simply something people bitch about because those that they want to bone don't want to bone them. It boils down to either A) My friend doesn't want to sex me up or B) I wanted to sex someone up but they wanted me as a friend instead for whatever reason.

And why aren't either of those two criteria sufficient to make the friendzone a "thing"? You've established it as a phenomenon.

Because those are just accidents of life. When people use the term friendzone they act like it is a creation, a thing that is being used to manipulate people. It isn't on any level.

On any level? Surely on the 'level' of the person experiencing it, it is. The statement "friendzone isn't a thing" is as meaningless as saying "Zeus isn't a thing". For the ancient Greeks, Zeus was very much a part of their lives and a 'thing'. The important question is what kind of thing? For the person using the word who has just experienced a humiliating rejection, it's surely not a detached description of a psychological process.

I have friends of both genders and actually have a minor attraction to both of them, but that's probably teen years telling my brain "SEX SEX SEX". Though given the chance to act I would turn it down, though not because of not wanting, just fearing the repercussions of that.

Darken12:

spartan231490:
False equivalence. Straw man. Just because people don't make suicidal decisions doesn't mean that they won't make irrational decisions.

And you, my friend, are dodging the question. ;)

While a lot of people gamble or play the lottery, not everyone does. I have never gambled in my life because I'm fully aware that it's throwing my money away (if I find myself with a surplus of money I don't have an immediate use for, I either save it or donate it). Not everyone thrill-seeks, not everyone lashes out at their bosses, not everyone is a slave to their emotions. Just some people. And even then, it's not deterministic; people can change or grow out of making constantly irrational decisions.

Remember: your argument is that everyone will always make irrational decisions. You can keep dodging all you want, but everyone reading already knows this reasoning is utterly ridiculous. Because, again: bisexuals and pansexuals. Saying that anywhere from 10 to 20% of the population can never have any friends whatsoever is so ridiculous it's practically self-defeating.

You're making a few big mistakes. Firstly, you're claiming that you are immune to making irrational and emotional decisions. I don't believe you. No one should. Everyone makes irrational emotional decisions with fairly high regularity. Second, you're assuming that my whole argument is predicated on this. It's not. My point was that I have never seen a relationship where the two people weren't both completely unattracted to each other that didn't run into trouble eventually. You can't counter that, because it's truth. Does it necessarily prove anything? Of course not, and I never implied that it was. I was merely defending my position.

Thirdly, I never said that everyone always makes irrational decisions. I said that everyone eventually makes irrational decisions. You are the one who started saying always.

Fourthly, again you've put words in my mouth. I never said that people can't have friends they're attracted to. I said that when they do, problems will arise. I never said it was impossible, I admitted in my first post that I had friends I'm attracted to. I said that there will always be problems, not relationship-ending problems(not always anyway), but problems.

Eventually, someone will say or do something they shouldn't have. It's human nature. If you deny it, you'll be powerless against it.

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