Do you expect men to pay for dates?
Yes - Every time
1.6% (11)
1.6% (11)
Yes - Most of the time
1.3% (9)
1.3% (9)
No - I prefer to take turns
7.5% (50)
7.5% (50)
No - I prefer to split the bill
11.9% (80)
11.9% (80)
No - I prefer to pay
0.9% (6)
0.9% (6)
Male - I always pay
21.3% (143)
21.3% (143)
Male - I prefer to split/take turns
53.7% (360)
53.7% (360)
Male - I expect the woman to pay
1.5% (10)
1.5% (10)
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Poll: Women of The Escapist - Do you expect men to pay for dates?

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I use to pay all the time , when i was young and naive . Now women pay for their own damn meals . If they aren't happy , there's many more , less cheap , fish in the sea . My mother taught me to be gentleman like , i did that until i got wiser and realised , women don't care . Now i'm rolling in dough .

At the start of a relationship whoever asks the other out pays. After a while the bill is split.

- Male perspective

I'm a guy and i always like to insist on paying for dates and stuff like that just cause i've been brought up as seeing it as the gentlemanly thing to do i guess, i actually get a little annoyed sometimes if i've offered to pay and somebody says not to because its like they're throwing my gift back at me!

Current relationship we take turns but in the past I've been in relationships where I covered most to all costs and vice versa. Also as note gotta love someone putting their poll where their mouth is.

My boyfriend and I take turns.

My parents raised me to always offer to pay (and mean it :P) So, I don't have a problem paying at all.

Rawne1980:
Pay?

I prefer to cause a distraction while we bolt for the door.

My personal favourite is "Fire! Fire!"

OT: I voted split/turns, I haven't been on a date but fair's fair. If she had a preference, I would do that depending on my ability to meet that preference.

Dangit2019:
It's just a nice thing to do, especially when you want to express that you want to work hard to earn her trust.

You express that you want to work hard to earn her trust...BY PAYING THINGS FOR HER!?.

I'm sorry, I'm SURE you are a nice guy, but this post got me infuriated. Seriously, it may be nice to pay for someones meal at times, but this..Just...This..Oh my god, please, rephrase yourself.

James Daniel Hughes:
I"m a dude and I always paid. But a better question is how much does a guy have to spend before the girl puts out?

Are you serious?

Realitycrash:

Dangit2019:
It's just a nice thing to do, especially when you want to express that you want to work hard to earn her trust.

You express that you want to work hard to earn her trust...BY PAYING THINGS FOR HER!?.

I'm sorry, I'm SURE you are a nice guy, but this post got me infuriated. Seriously, it may be nice to pay for someones meal at times, but this..Just...This..Oh my god, please, rephrase yourself.

Can you calm down and specify where you're getting mad instead of acting like I'm some kind of deranged animal?

Yes, I think that giving someone shit for free is generally nice, and people work for money, so paying for someone's stuff without making a big deal out of it is in my opinion a NICE GESTURE.

I'm not saying that that's the ONLY way to earn her trust. Hell no, that's borderline sociopathic. I'm just saying that it's good mannered.

I always offer to pay when my girlfriend and I go out. But she's uncomfortable with people paying for her, so we generally end up splitting the bill.

I always split with my ex girlfriend. She said it was "unromantic" and told me how all her exes bought for her. fun times.

When eating out with friends we often split the bill, but if one of us doesnt have the money we'll cover each other and just expect for the other person to cover us later. Simples.

If I were to date a girl, I would ask her what she wanted to do. If she wanted me to pay, I'd pay. If she wanted to split, we'd split. I've had a few women pay for our coffees/snacks/lunch, though we weren't romantically interested in each other.

If I were to date a guy, I'd do the same, though I'd make a point of never going below "50/50" split. I come from a less than privileged background and I've had my fair share of well-meaning friends who wanted to pay for everything because they knew my funds were tight. I wasn't really comfortable with that, though I have to admit I was like that when I was younger towards my best friend (until he started earning more than me and he turned the tables on me).

Dangit2019:

Realitycrash:

Dangit2019:
It's just a nice thing to do, especially when you want to express that you want to work hard to earn her trust.

You express that you want to work hard to earn her trust...BY PAYING THINGS FOR HER!?.

I'm sorry, I'm SURE you are a nice guy, but this post got me infuriated. Seriously, it may be nice to pay for someones meal at times, but this..Just...This..Oh my god, please, rephrase yourself.

Can you calm down and specify where you're getting mad instead of acting like I'm some kind of deranged animal?

Yes, I think that giving someone shit for free is generally nice, and people work for money, so paying for someone's stuff without making a big deal out of it is in my opinion a NICE GESTURE.

I'm not saying that that's the ONLY way to earn her trust. Hell no, that's borderline sociopathic. I'm just saying that it's good mannered.

It's good mannered to offer. It's not by having a mentality that basically says 'I want women to trust me. So I buy them shit'.
I also said that I don't think your a bad person, and what really bugged me was how you phrased it. You want to be polite (by accepting a, in my mind, slightly sexist ritual that should have been dead and forgotten decades ago. Not calling you sexist, I just dislike the idea that men should pay for women and that's the way it 'should' be), that's fine. I buy my friends things, afterall.
But paying for things in order to gain..Their..Trust. Really? You don't see the problem with that sentence?

OT: If I date, I expect them to pay for themselves. However, I am willing to pay for them if it is something they can't afford and it is something I want to actually do with them. Like skydiving, or go to the movies (some people are poor, like me). If they can afford it, I expect them to pay for it

I will quite happily foot my share of the bill, I get uncomfortable when I'm just given something.
Having said that, my previous relationship crumbled because my partner couldn't even contribute towards anything we did, when he did put something towards it he would have no money to live off until he signed on again.
Gawd, I know how to pick 'em..

Realitycrash:

It's good mannered to offer. It's not by having a mentality that basically says 'I want women to trust me. So I buy them shit'.
I also said that I don't think your a bad person, and what really bugged me was how you phrased it. You want to be polite (by accepting a, in my mind, slightly sexist ritual that should have been dead and forgotten decades ago. Not calling you sexist, I just dislike that men should pay for women and that's the way it 'should' be), that's fine. I buy my friends things, afterall.
But paying for things in order to gain..Their..Trust. Really? You don't see the problem with that sentence?

You know, here's the thing, yes, it's a 'traditional' practice and I by no means defend doing things over and over in the sake of 'tradition' alone, but is this seriously just so bad a practice that it should be killed off, like women not being able to wear pants?

It's guys paying for girls' shit. Why is that such a big fucking deal? Again, if they want to split or pay for it themselves, I'm not going to enforce my standards on them, but if I was on the other side of the deal, I just don't think I would be fighting against it as much as some people do.

I'm wondering if this is just a cultural thing to where I live (Southern U.S. or the U.S. as a whole), because we just do that here. No one questions it, and nobody gives a shit. It's like saying "bless you" when someone sneezes. No one's going to object to the religious implications, because all it is is a NICE GESTURE.

As for the whole trust thing, I think you're blowing that out of proportion. Also, you did the non-specific "HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE HOW WRONG YOU ARE" thing instead of calmly discussing why you object to it.

When I say trust, I mean it in the most petty and face value of terms. I'm not saying that she's going to sacrifice herself for me if I buy her a fucking iPad; I'm saying that I'm hoping that I'll give a good first impression. Again, not the only factor whatsoever, not even a major one, but a -ahem- NICE GESTURE.

If I ask her out, I expect myself to pay. If she asks me out, I expect her to pay. That is how I approach the situation. Of course, if she offers to split the check, I won't say no, but still. :P

Angie7F:
My BF has paid for me for the last five years. He even pays for everything that has to do with my dog.
However, I will buy lunch or dinner here and there.

I wouldnt mind going dutch, but if the guy feels that he should pay then I would not insist on going dutch.
I prefer to respect the guy's preference than forcing people to pay for me.

Going dutch eh. Well first time i heard that one.

Shouldn't be surprised, we tend to have a... certain reputation across the globe i guess for being greedy.

OT; personally i feel if YOU asked the other party out, YOU should pay. Does not matter if you are a boy or a girl.
during a relationship, well thats your problem figuring out.

Female here - I was taught that whoever did the inviting out , pays for the meal; since they are now considered your 'guest'. That goes for dates, family members, acquaintances, or friends. But of course there are always those little arguments over the bill, so I'll compromise with splitting the bill or letting them pay if they are really insistent - just to avoid a issue. Some people get really frustrated about it.

Dangit2019:

Realitycrash:

It's good mannered to offer. It's not by having a mentality that basically says 'I want women to trust me. So I buy them shit'.
I also said that I don't think your a bad person, and what really bugged me was how you phrased it. You want to be polite (by accepting a, in my mind, slightly sexist ritual that should have been dead and forgotten decades ago. Not calling you sexist, I just dislike that men should pay for women and that's the way it 'should' be), that's fine. I buy my friends things, afterall.
But paying for things in order to gain..Their..Trust. Really? You don't see the problem with that sentence?

You know, here's the thing, yes, it's a 'traditional' practice and I by no means defend doing things over and over in the sake of 'tradition' alone, but is this seriously just so bad a practice that it should be killed off, like women not being able to wear pants?

It's guys paying for girls' shit. Why is that such a big fucking deal? Again, if they want to split or pay for it themselves, I'm not going to enforce my standards on them, but if I was on the other side of the deal, I just don't think I would be fighting against it as much as some people do.

I'm wondering if this is just a cultural thing to where I live (Southern U.S. or the U.S. as a whole), because we just do that here. No one questions it, and nobody gives a shit. It's like saying "bless you" when someone sneezes. No one's going to object to the religious implications, because all it is is a NICE GESTURE.

As for the whole trust thing, I think you're blowing that out of proportion. Also, you did the non-specific "HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE HOW WRONG YOU ARE" thing instead of calmly discussing why you object to it.

When I say trust, I mean it in the most petty and face value of terms. I'm not saying that she's going to sacrifice herself for me if I buy her a fucking iPad; I'm saying that I'm hoping that I'll give a good first impression. Again, not the only factor whatsoever, not even a major one, but a -ahem- NICE GESTURE.

A good impression of what, though? Your wallet? Your ability to provide for her? The fact that you approve that she should be privileged in some fashions? I'm sorry, but I find such a cultural thing to be absurd, and offensive. Being nice is being nice. Automatically assuming that one should give money to a woman you have sexual interest in (because that is what is being done, really. You pay for the food/stuff instead of just giving money) is just a twisted practice that needs to go away. It isn't the worst thing in the world, really. But it is unequal, and I don't approve of it.
I'm not saying that is why you pay for women the first time (that you are sexist or try to take advantage of it), but the tradition itself is sexist, and it needs to go away.

As for the 'if the tables were turned', why yes, I DO get drinks in night-clubs by women, or they offer to my train-ticket if I come visit them if we have met over the internet. I find it offensive too, and I refuse it, because I feel like they are trying to buy me (especially with the night-club drinks, which I refuse to accept nowdays).

Look, all and all, there's nothing wrong with paying for another persons meal, but to have it as established practice, based JUST on gender-roles? That is fucked up.

I'm Dutch.

If the lady in question objects to going Dutch she shouldn't be dating a Dutchman now should she? That's on the assumption though that the date was a mutually agreed upon thing.

If it's a first date that I asked her out on, then I'll work on the assumption that I'll be paying unless she objects (which would score her some points in my book). If it's a first date she asked me out on then I'd object should she tried to pay everything, although her offering would again be appreciated but hardly required.

Her asking me out and then expecting me to pay... Well... I'll put enough money on the table for my share and walk out.

lacktheknack:
I haven't dated (;_______;) but I imagine it will depend on what she wants.

Not sure how to approach it, though. Can the more romantically experienced Escapists help a brother who may be in need... one day?

Pay for the first few dates as a rule. If she's completely against it then you might have to figure something else out, but I've found that slipping my card to the waiter, or the cashier, or whatever else have you before she gets a chance to do so might earn you a (mostly comedic) glare but it will also earn you some brownie points. When things begin to progress you might want to let her pay every once in a while, or let her swap with you, but it never hurts to pretend to forget it's her turn and pay anyway, or at least attempt to. In general, always assume that it's your turn to pay, and if she reminds you then feign ignorance, smile, let her pay for you, then thank her afterwards. If she doesn't then don't remind her and pay for it, and if she remembers afterwards you have the subtle opportunity to laugh it off and say she can pay next time. Or, if you're comfortable with her, you can subtly (and jokingly, mind. You have to use a joking tone of voice and smile with it, or else it seems creepy) suggest that she can pay you back in a different way. I've gotten more than a few "benefits" from pulling that card out of my pocket.

I've found that, even if you're not dating the girl, paying for her is never a bad thing. It's an interesting balance to play with, but if something comes up - say a waiter brings out one bill instead of splitting it - just paying for it tends to be the right thing to do. If she mentions something just wave your hand and say you've got it, not a big deal. Even with friends, like I said, it tells them you appreciate their presence and enjoy spending time with them, and also that you're confident enough in yourself that you don't make a big deal over who pays for what. The key here, as in anything along these lines, tends to be confidence. But that's a whole different animal to address I suppose, so I'll leave it here.

its funny.. or weird but now that i think of it i always pay for the first date but not the second, so i guess im a gambler. When i am in a committed relationship though... well screw old fashioned mannerisms, its joint economy all the way, if im going to get broke id rather not do it alone

At my age and the circles I run in, I've had to occasionally pay for dinner because I needed guys to know they weren't allowed to expect anything from me. It was my way of saying "yeah, I know that you think me smiling at you means I'm flirting and that means you're allowed to make a pass at whatever the hell you thought the right moment was, but I bought YOUR dinner, schmuck, so you don't get to think I owe you anything."

This is typically for guys that I'm in the "I think we're going to be friends but it's not likely" stage with. The ones that think that I might be open to having an affair, but don't have the balls to ask directly (yes, this has happened on multiple occasions*), but will happily flirt with me over drinks. If we still like each other after that, we're friends. If not, life goes on and I have one less insecure pantywaist projecting his woman issues on me.

With my male friends (i.e., guys who know they're not going to ever convince me to sleep with them but like me anyway), it's usually dutch or for special occasions (birthdays, new jobs, new babies, the like), the congratulator pays for the congratulated.

With my significant other, it's whoever whips out their wallet first, but it's usually him because I buy most of the groceries.

*For anyone who thinks that this assessment makes me vain, I'm not all that attractive. In fact, if I were, it would make these guys less likely to make a pass at me. I'm just attractive enough that these guys - socially inept software jockeys - think that I'm not out of their league, while at the same time I should be grateful for the attention. The male-female dynamic is, much to my chagrin, a complicated fucking thing.

James Daniel Hughes:
I"m a dude and I always paid. But a better question is how much does a guy have to spend before the girl puts out?

I'm a woman and this is why I prefer to pay for my own meal on a date.

Luckily, I'm a lesbian, then. (Seriously, is this an issue? I always took it as a given that you split the bill, or have both pay their own share, except if one is treating the other for a birthday or something.)

My mom has always been very strict about this kind of stuff, if I ate at my friend's house, she made sure I'd take something to them in return.

In my relationship, if we go out to dinner we both pay.
If he takes me out for dinner he pays and vice versa.

We went for lunch in a restaurant today and I paid becuase it was my idea. The time before that, we split it and before that, he paid.

It's a good system.

Realitycrash:

A good impression of what, though? Your wallet? Your ability to provide for her? The fact that you approve that she should be privileged in some fashions?

No, a good impression of basic generosity and appreciation of what the current culture defines as manners. I'm sorry if that's so corrupt in your eyes.

I'm sorry, but I find such a cultural thing to be absurd, and offensive. Being nice is being nice. Automatically assuming that one should give money to a woman you have sexual interest in (because that is what is being done, really. You pay for the food/stuff instead of just giving money) is just a twisted practice that needs to go away. It isn't the worst thing in the world, really. But it is unequal, and I don't approve of it.
I'm not saying that is why you pay for women the first time (that you are sexist or try to take advantage of it), but the tradition itself is sexist, and it needs to go away.

You know what's also extremely sexist? Guys opening doors for girls. What a fucking imbalance there, eh? I mean let's look at the definition of sexist here:

"pertaining to, involving, or fostering attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles"

Yep, that's definitely fostering a behavioral standard that men should open doors for women. How horribly sexist.

Unless you object to even that, I think the point I'm trying to make is that many things people do as a born habit or cultural standard are by definition sexist, but that doesn't really make them any less sincere in their intentions of just being nice.

As for the 'if the tables were turned', why yes, I DO get drinks in night-clubs by women, or they offer to my train-ticket if I come visit them if we have met over the internet. I find it offensive too, and I refuse it, because I feel like they are trying to buy me (especially with the night-club drinks, which I refuse to accept nowdays).

You have fun with that, then. I guess that's just your opinion, and can't really be argued.

Look, all and all, there's nothing wrong with paying for another persons meal, but to have it as established practice, based JUST on gender-roles? That is fucked up.

See above. It all depends on the context of the guy paying. If a guy thinks that he can pay his way into a girl's pants, than yes, that is absolutely fucked up. If a guy thinks that it's just the right thing to do, and wants to let himself be known for doing the right thing, than he isn't some evil twat just because he didn't follow the Sarkeesian's Guide to Political Correctness and just told her to pay for it herself.

Dangit2019:

You know what's also extremely sexist? Guys opening doors for girls. What a fucking imbalance there, eh? I mean let's look at the definition of sexist here:

"pertaining to, involving, or fostering attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles"

Yep, that's definitely fostering a behavioral standard that men should open doors for women. How horribly sexist.

Um, yes. Yes it is sexist. It's not the most hossible thing in the world, but why do it?

I just hold open doors for anyone who walks in after me, or if they have their hands full.

THAT is courtesy.
Not going 'Well, you have a penis, so I'm not going to treat you the same way as the ones with boobs.'

Lieju:

Dangit2019:

You know what's also extremely sexist? Guys opening doors for girls. What a fucking imbalance there, eh? I mean let's look at the definition of sexist here:

"pertaining to, involving, or fostering attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles"

Yep, that's definitely fostering a behavioral standard that men should open doors for women. How horribly sexist.

Um, yes. Yes it is sexist. It's not the most hossible thing in the world, but why do it?

I just hold open doors for anyone who walks in after me, or if they have their hands full.

THAT is courtesy.
Not going 'Well, you have a penis, so I'm not going to treat you the same way as the ones with boobs.'

Did I say anything about guys holding doors open for just girls?

No. No I did not.

What I was referring to is the notion of guys holding the door open for a girl if it's just them two instead of the other way around.

And if that's sexist, than I'm afraid that I just don't give a fuck.

Dangit2019:

Realitycrash:

A good impression of what, though? Your wallet? Your ability to provide for her? The fact that you approve that she should be privileged in some fashions?

No, a good impression of basic generosity and appreciation of what the current culture defines as manners. I'm sorry if that's so corrupt in your eyes.

I'm sorry, but I find such a cultural thing to be absurd, and offensive. Being nice is being nice. Automatically assuming that one should give money to a woman you have sexual interest in (because that is what is being done, really. You pay for the food/stuff instead of just giving money) is just a twisted practice that needs to go away. It isn't the worst thing in the world, really. But it is unequal, and I don't approve of it.
I'm not saying that is why you pay for women the first time (that you are sexist or try to take advantage of it), but the tradition itself is sexist, and it needs to go away.

You know what's also extremely sexist? Guys opening doors for girls. What a fucking imbalance there, eh? I mean let's look at the definition of sexist here:

"pertaining to, involving, or fostering attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles"

Yep, that's definitely fostering a behavioral standard that men should open doors for women. How horribly sexist.

Unless you object to even that, I think the point I'm trying to make is that many things people do as a born habit or cultural standard are by definition sexist, but that doesn't really make them any less sincere in their intentions of just being nice.

As for the 'if the tables were turned', why yes, I DO get drinks in night-clubs by women, or they offer to my train-ticket if I come visit them if we have met over the internet. I find it offensive too, and I refuse it, because I feel like they are trying to buy me (especially with the night-club drinks, which I refuse to accept nowdays).

You have fun with that, then. I guess that's just your opinion, and can't really be argued.

Look, all and all, there's nothing wrong with paying for another persons meal, but to have it as established practice, based JUST on gender-roles? That is fucked up.

See above. It all depends on the context of the guy paying. If a guy thinks that he can pay his way into a girl's pants, than yes, that is absolutely fucked up. If a guy thinks that it's just the right thing to do, and wants to let himself be known for doing the right thing, than he isn't some evil twat just because he didn't follow the Sarkeesian's Guide to Political Correctness and just told her to pay for it herself.

Guys opening door for girls per necessity, because they should, because they are women and only because they are women?
Yes.
PEOPLE should not be treated differently because they are of a different gender (unless there is some medical reason).
Period. If you wanna open doors for people, or hold them open, then it should be for everyone (which I do, for instance).
But any form of cultural special treatment of a gender that doesn't have a valid reason like a medical one? No, it's bullshit, and it needs to go.

I usually either split the bill or take turns.

James Daniel Hughes:
I"m a dude and I always paid. But a better question is how much does a guy have to spend before the girl puts out?

You should ask the prostitute in question what their rates are.

Dangit2019:

And if that's sexist, than I'm afraid that I just don't give a fuck.

Then don't. But be aware you're a part of the anti-feminist idea that men and women should not be treated equally.
And that not all people view that kind of behaviour as a 'nice gesture'.

Lieju:

Dangit2019:

And if that's sexist, than I'm afraid that I just don't give a fuck.

Then don't. But be aware you're a part of the anti-feminist idea that men and women should not be treated equally.
And that not all people view that kind of behaviour as a 'nice gesture'.

Oh, I will. If anti-feminist means being nice to girls because they're girls and would like to be to be treated nicely, than I'm anti-feminist all the way. I'll flaunt that standard until the end of fucking time.

Realitycrash:

Guys opening door for girls per necessity, because they should, because they are women and only because they are women?
Yes.
PEOPLE should not be treated differently because they are of a different gender (unless there is some medical reason).
Period. If you wanna open doors for people, or hold them open, then it should be for everyone (which I do, for instance).
But any form of cultural special treatment of a gender that doesn't have a valid reason like a medical one? No, it's bullshit, and it needs to go.

I do open doors for everyone. I just put more priority in girls because many girls have told me that they like it when a guy opens the door for them, and I generally want to make people happy in whatever way they prefer. Fucking sue me.

Dangit2019:

Lieju:

Dangit2019:

And if that's sexist, than I'm afraid that I just don't give a fuck.

Then don't. But be aware you're a part of the anti-feminist idea that men and women should not be treated equally.
And that not all people view that kind of behaviour as a 'nice gesture'.

Oh, I will. If anti-feminist means being nice to girls because they're girls and would like to be to be treated nicely, than I'm anti-feminist all the way. I'll flaunt that standard until the end of fucking time.

Realitycrash:

Guys opening door for girls per necessity, because they should, because they are women and only because they are women?
Yes.
PEOPLE should not be treated differently because they are of a different gender (unless there is some medical reason).
Period. If you wanna open doors for people, or hold them open, then it should be for everyone (which I do, for instance).
But any form of cultural special treatment of a gender that doesn't have a valid reason like a medical one? No, it's bullshit, and it needs to go.

I do open doors for everyone. I just put more priority in girls because many girls have told me that they like it when a guy opens the door for them, and I generally want to make people happy in whatever way they prefer. Fucking sue me.

I won't sue you, because that's a VALID REASON. But acting on a notion that it SHOULD be this way because there are something different on a fundamental level between sexes is NOT a valid reason. Holding open doors to be nice is fine. Putting more priority for girls is fine, if you believe men in general don't like it.
Holding up doors for women just because they are women is not fine.

Split bills all the way. Just because i want to spend time with someone i don't have to pay them - Feels like prostitution seriously. Same goes the otherway around, just because a girl wants to go on a dinner together i wouldn't expect her to "pay my time".

If someone agrees on a date usually both people want to spend time together, so each can buy his own friggin shit. I'll always going to assume i'm paying my own stuff unless it's clearly stated that's on someon else.
It's an outdated "tradition" because women had usually hadn't a big or any dispoable income at all.

It's not surprising though that some women definitly won't mind if they'll get free food/cinema/drinks/club entries/whatever every once in a while^^

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