Do you expect men to pay for dates?
Yes - Every time
1.6% (11)
1.6% (11)
Yes - Most of the time
1.3% (9)
1.3% (9)
No - I prefer to take turns
7.5% (50)
7.5% (50)
No - I prefer to split the bill
11.9% (80)
11.9% (80)
No - I prefer to pay
0.9% (6)
0.9% (6)
Male - I always pay
21.3% (143)
21.3% (143)
Male - I prefer to split/take turns
53.7% (360)
53.7% (360)
Male - I expect the woman to pay
1.5% (10)
1.5% (10)
Want to vote? Register now or Sign Up with Facebook
Poll: Women of The Escapist - Do you expect men to pay for dates?

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 NEXT
 

Katatori-kun:

jovack22:

Katatori-kun:

Reported for racial slur.

Racial slur? I'm making an observation... because it's not something positive, it's automatically a hate crime?

No, it's a racial slur. Read the words I've written, not the words that exist only in your head.

I'm sure you're a hit with the ladies when you ask them to split.

Reported for (groundless) attack on my personal life.

You might try actually reading the thread instead of making up innuendo about people who call you out when you make groundless claims.

My, my, the insecurities really run deep within you.

I'm sorry you don't like reading other peoples' points of view... not everything in this life is worth getting offended over.

I said, I'm sure you're a hit with the ladies... a compliment to you since of course no one should ever say anything out of fear for hurting their feelings...

Perhaps you should read your own words more carefully... last time I checked. England and Germany were not races (the allies disproved that notion in world war 2 when hitler tried suggesting it).

Again, like the other person said who agreed with me, making a cultural observation is nothing to get upset over.

Please keep reporting me over ridiculous issues, I'm sure the moderators love getting pointless spam.

On dates, I don't expect anyone to pay for me, so it's a very nice surprise when he does. As you can probably tell, I don't go on many dates.
Among friends, we usually split the bill.

jovack22:
As a male I'll tell you right now that quality women do not even need to make this decision as there will be a lineup of guys who will by dying to pay for them.

I always offer, and refuse any sort of money from the woman..

Now if we actually end up spending more than a couple of nights together, girlfriend quality women will offer to pay and I let them cover a bill every so often (after i've offered first of course)...

Sorry guys, it's biology. We don't need to give birth, but it's our duty to provide for and protect.

Maybe it's my southern european background, but I always offer to pay first. I know a lot of Anglo/Germanic people are often very cheap, and that's really a terrible quality in my opinion -- it seems most people of... ethnic minority let's say... often favour male pays, and the White anglo saxon protestant / northern european will often expect a split at the bare minimum.

I don't know.. to each his own, but I know a lot of cases where a woman will be turned off if a man does not at least offer to pay first.

Interesting premise considering i'm part of the English Majority and i like to pay for dates if i can. It's only biological in as much as most guys take women out on dates because they are interested in having sex with them and by paying for their evening they are edging their bets on the coveted sexytime later on. It's like prostitution in a less direct and more seedy manor...

Evil Smurf:
As a man, I like paying the bill. Besides, it shows that you can support the woman.

..Why on earth should you 'support a woman' in economical terms? Should you provide her with emotional comfort, reassurance, and respect, just as she would provide you? Yes.
Should you 'support' her by paying for her bills? No. Why? Because we don't live in a housewife/working-man society any more. Women should support themselves, because having more women in the work-place lowers sexism, and having them support themselves limits dependency on men, which also lowers sexism.

jovack22:

Katatori-kun:
[quote="jovack22" post="18.400658.16484595"][quote="Katatori-kun" post="18.400658.16482018"][quote="jovack22" post="18.400658.16484595"]I know a lot of Anglo/Germanic people are often very cheap,

Again, like the other person said who agreed with me, making a cultural observation is nothing to get upset over.

It is if one also argues that said cultural observation is 'natural' and thus 'right' or 'one's duty'. Because that's an Appeal to Nature-fallacy.

I was brought up by a mother who thought it was important to make sure I grew up independent, and she would often insist to me that being paid for by the guy basically makes you a prostitute. I mean, I know now that my mum was a little paranoid (understatement, she's a nutter), but as some of the comments here show it is still a bit of a mindset that if you want a girl to like you (enough to let you in their pants) then you should pay, and it makes me very uncomfortable. And I'm not rich and I do like it when people pay for my meals and drinks so I will happily let my friends who have jobs do so (I'm a student), but my rule is if I think I'm going to sleep with someone, I don't let them pay, because otherwise it feels far too much like a transaction. Now I don't have a problem with prostitution per se, but if I'm gonna get with a guy I want him to know it's on his merits, I don't want him to think I'm just with him for his money. I guess it's about showing him respect as well as myself.

When me and my boyfriend started dating-although-we-didn't-really-admit-that's-what-we-were-doing, I got genuinely distressed when he did things like paid the bill when I was in the toilet because I felt like it was tipping the power balance and marring the beginning of our relationship. One time I almost started to cry because he didn't want to take my money to pay him back. He's said before that he finds it annoying when friends refuse offers to pay because it's like they're refusing a gift and that is unfortunately a conflict of values, but at least if we do things my way he gets to keep his money!

Also, I think he may have known about my whole if-I-might-sleep-with-them-I-won't-take-their-money rule, so I wonder if he may have been being so insistent just to see if he had a chance with me...

Anyway, now that we're going steady we take turns, it is easier than having to fiddle around with change or paying with two cards every time you go out.

Side note - I did the 'flip the gender roles' thing once, I was crazy about this guy who wasn't that into me so I took him to expensive restaurants and showered him with gifts, spent a few hundred quid on him before he finally went 'eh, I can't be bothered hanging around with you any more'. Being on that side of that kind of relationship I can say... I don't get why some guys insist on always paying. I thought I was doing a nice thing but all it really was was a dude milking me for all I was worth until he didn't want to play any more. It's too easy for people to take you for a ride if you take this approach!

Dangit2019:
If anti-feminist means being nice to girls because they're girls and would like to be to be treated nicely, than I'm anti-feminist all the way. I'll flaunt that standard until the end of fucking time.

I... I don't understand. Why can't you be nice to girls because they're people, and people like to be treated nicely?
I mean, guys like to be treated nicely too, right? Have... have I just been insulting guys all this time by treating them nicely and it turns out they actually prefer you to shut the door in their face?

jovack22:
Sorry guys, it's biology. We don't need to give birth, but it's our duty to provide for and protect.

Wait, you mean, if the guy pays I don't only have to worry about feeling obligated to have sex with him, but I'm expected to have his frickin' child? This... doesn't make me feel better about letting the guy pay at all!

As a man, I straight up refuse to date anyone who isn't willing to split the bill. Nothing against them as people, but that just doesn't represent a relationship dynamic I have any interest in.

Me and my gf pretty much take turns...not like we count or anything, but if I would get the impression that she would expect me to pay all/most of the time I would question if she is as invested in the relationship as I am...so, no...I dont see why I should pay a woman to be in a relationship with me.

(Exeptions: Valentines day, birthday...and of course if I would feel she couldnt afford it)

Also, if a girl expects that, what does that mean? Would she stop being my girlfriend if I would stop paying her? Wouldnt that make her kind of a prostitute?

Than again, I am german and she is chinese, so it may just be a cultural thing.

*MALE*

I prefer that me and my GF both pay our own way. Although I will often treat her and pay for her. Mostly when it's movie tickets and stuff. Food is almost always "we each pay our way".

As for the last 3 dates:
last) I paid for supper. It was our second anniversary of hooking up, soo.... :)
before last) I paid for the movie and snacks.
Before-before last) I paid for the movie and snacks. We each paid our own way for supper.

Dangit2019:

Did anyone say you were a misogynist for being nice to women? :/ It's just that it's important for you to question why you feel the need to be 'especially' nice to women, because when that's generally expected in a social context it's because women are generally seen as more vulnerable and needing to be pandered to.

If you're just nicer to people who you fancy that's one thing even if some people disagree with the prospect of using money to try to gain someone's affection (like I said, I've splashed money on a guy I liked, I don't think that makes me a misandrist but I do think it made me kinda stupid) but things you've said on more general matters (like 'being nice to girls because they're girls') does suggest that you just view women as deserving or needing a 'special' kind of treatment. That doesn't make you some kind of bad person, just maybe someone who might want to reassess why you're doing what you're doing instead of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying you don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks. :/

lisadagz:

...(like 'being nice to girls because they're girls') does suggest that you just view women as deserving or needing a 'special' kind of treatment...

Well I guess thats where the whole thing comes from, in the past women were expected to stay at home, caring for children and so on, so it was perfectly reasonable to pay for them, since they wouldnt work and wouldnt have any/as much money...its just a concept that has lost its original meaning.

Basically, if a guy feels like he has to pay and a woman is okay with that, I dont really see it as a problem (its pretty much just a kind of fetish)...having said that, if a man tries to compensate with money or flatout feels like he has to buy affection and/or the woman thinks that her attention should be paid I find it...questionable to say the least.

I had a brief period where I would end up paying for things. This was largely born of me being used to going out with friends, where I might whack a couple of meals or cinema tickets on my card(because it's easy) and get reimbursed later via bank transfer or whatever.

When I noticed that my bank balance was getting less healthy, I changed my attitude a little and became more money conscious. I like buying myself nice things better than I like being traditional, I think. I don't earn much money as is(it's enough for one, it doesn't comfortably pay for 2 people). A woman who would fail to sympathise and instead judge me for this isn't worth my time, in my estimation.

Dangit2019:
Ooo, look, a wall of text for me to ignore. I take not giving a fuck very seriously.

Y-es, I can see that. My point was that is not something to be proud of.

Defensive stubbornness is the easy option. Reassessing your values takes a while, I find.

My problem with answering the poll was actually with the definition of 'date'. Well, I know that in this case the term 'date' does not refer to temporal coordinates based on a calendar, but rather to a meeting between two people of apparently different sex with an unspecified state of relationship between them.

And it is this 'unspecified state of relationship' that makes it difficult do give an 'always' or 'never' answer.

A 'date' as a meeting, maybe for a dinner, or just a coffee? Is it due to a special occasion? Is it the first date?

In my opinion the term 'date' just holds too many variations, and in some of them, I would expect the man to pay, in some the women and in others I just do not care.

A pair in a long relationship, that just 'dates' themselves between their working hours to have lunch together... I can't see a predefined approach on 'who will pay'.

If they guy asks her out for the first time, of course he should be paying. I consider this to be part of the gesture of being a gentleman*.

And if he just passed his final exam and his gf invites him out for dinner, why shouldn't she pay?

* Before someone snaps at this old-fashioned interpretation of 'gentleman': I do NOT think, that it's the man's job to provide money, while the wife stays at home and provides 'home-service', also there are probably plenty of couples on this planet that willingly share the workload in this (traditional) manner.

I DO think, however, that it's a really nice gesture to invite someone out for dinner, and in my definition of 'invitation' paying the bill is included.

So long
Shendril

PS: 'Hey, you may invite me to a dinner.' can be a cool way to get into contact, too. =)

Realitycrash:

Evil Smurf:
As a man, I like paying the bill. Besides, it shows that you can support the woman.

..Why on earth should you 'support a woman' in economical terms? Should you provide her with emotional comfort, reassurance, and respect, just as she would provide you? Yes.
Should you 'support' her by paying for her bills? No. Why? Because we don't live in a housewife/working-man society any more. Women should support themselves, because having more women in the work-place lowers sexism, and having them support themselves limits dependency on men, which also lowers sexism.

Gee, did you ever think that some people like knowing that they don't have to worry about paying for food while going out?

I'm not sexist man, just conscience of the relief that not having to pay for a meal brings.

Evil Smurf:

Realitycrash:

Evil Smurf:
As a man, I like paying the bill. Besides, it shows that you can support the woman.

..Why on earth should you 'support a woman' in economical terms? Should you provide her with emotional comfort, reassurance, and respect, just as she would provide you? Yes.
Should you 'support' her by paying for her bills? No. Why? Because we don't live in a housewife/working-man society any more. Women should support themselves, because having more women in the work-place lowers sexism, and having them support themselves limits dependency on men, which also lowers sexism.

Gee, did you ever think that some people like knowing that they don't have to worry about paying for food while going out?

I'm not sexist man, just conscience of the relief that not having to pay for a meal brings.

Uh huh, and that is why you say "It shows you can support the woman" because it has nothing to do with their gender.

The world is full of ill-designed polls... Some of the women of the escapist don't date men.

TopazFusion:

Evil Smurf:
As a man, I like paying the bill. Besides, it shows that you can support the woman.

Except that's an old-fashioned and out-dated gender role right there.

In fact, I know females who would find that to be rather patronizing.

Then call me old fashioned.

I'm in the minority here. *hides behind flamesheild*

Malkav:

[...]It seems to me this whole idea of the man paying for both is from a time when it was unusual for a woman to have the same kind of salary as men. In a time when women were only expected to marry and tend to the house, the man is bound to pay. But times have changed, and so must this. Shouldn't men and women in relationships be able to treat each other equal?
[...]

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/business/news/50-years-later-women-still-are-paid-less-671573/

Just sayin' :) Though actually I agree that an equal relationship is desirable, especially to avoid the obnoxious "I bought you food, so I should be allowed to lay hands on you." thing.

Further, your point that economic disparity between the participants is relevant. When I've dated people significantly poorer than I, I usually paid, the reverse has also been true. With economic equals, splitting or swapping becomes the norm.

Crenelate:
We usually split or take turns. Last date he paid though as it was an early Valentines type deal.

I think the general rule is (from my perspective), if you ask someone out, you should pay (guy or gal). If you're in a relationship and dates are a matter of course then splitting is better. Equality!

Pretty much this.

If I ask someone out I pay. sometimes they then say "well I can get the next one". And that's fine with me.

the way my girlfriend and I do it is that I pay on Tuesdays (which is tonight) and she takes care of Friday and if there is a special thing coming up we play it by ear.

I always pay for the first date unless my date is adamant against it. However that has never happened.

lisadagz:

Wait, you mean, if the guy pays I don't only have to worry about feeling obligated to have sex with him, but I'm expected to have his frickin' child? This... doesn't make me feel better about letting the guy pay at all!

Of course nothing is black and white. My comment was strictly to provide a (mainly conversational) reason which could provide explanation for this seemingly innate practice which is so deeply engrained in almost every culture across the world.

Realitycrash:

jovack22:

Katatori-kun:
[quote="jovack22" post="18.400658.16484595"][quote="Katatori-kun" post="18.400658.16482018"][quote="jovack22" post="18.400658.16484595"]I know a lot of Anglo/Germanic people are often very cheap,

Again, like the other person said who agreed with me, making a cultural observation is nothing to get upset over.

It is if one also argues that said cultural observation is 'natural' and thus 'right' or 'one's duty'. Because that's an Appeal to Nature-fallacy.

You may call it a fallacy, however I never claimed it was good or natural... merely it is.

jovack22:

lisadagz:

Wait, you mean, if the guy pays I don't only have to worry about feeling obligated to have sex with him, but I'm expected to have his frickin' child? This... doesn't make me feel better about letting the guy pay at all!

Of course nothing is black and white. My comment was strictly to provide a (mainly conversational) reason which could provide explanation for this seemingly innate practice which is so deeply engrained in almost every culture across the world.

'Seemingly innate'. 'Almost every culture'.

Given those fairly radical claims, I'm going to guess you were actually just trying to justify yourself.

lisadagz:
I was brought up by a mother who thought it was important to make sure I grew up independent, and she would often insist to me that being paid for by the guy basically makes you a prostitute. I mean, I know now that my mum was a little paranoid (understatement, she's a nutter), but as some of the comments here show it is still a bit of a mindset that if you want a girl to like you (enough to let you in their pants) then you should pay, and it makes me very uncomfortable. And I'm not rich and I do like it when people pay for my meals and drinks so I will happily let my friends who have jobs do so (I'm a student), but my rule is if I think I'm going to sleep with someone, I don't let them pay, because otherwise it feels far too much like a transaction. Now I don't have a problem with prostitution per se, but if I'm gonna get with a guy I want him to know it's on his merits, I don't want him to think I'm just with him for his money. I guess it's about showing him respect as well as myself.

When me and my boyfriend started dating-although-we-didn't-really-admit-that's-what-we-were-doing, I got genuinely distressed when he did things like paid the bill when I was in the toilet because I felt like it was tipping the power balance and marring the beginning of our relationship. One time I almost started to cry because he didn't want to take my money to pay him back. He's said before that he finds it annoying when friends refuse offers to pay because it's like they're refusing a gift and that is unfortunately a conflict of values, but at least if we do things my way he gets to keep his money!

Also, I think he may have known about my whole if-I-might-sleep-with-them-I-won't-take-their-money rule, so I wonder if he may have been being so insistent just to see if he had a chance with me...

Anyway, now that we're going steady we take turns, it is easier than having to fiddle around with change or paying with two cards every time you go out.

Side note - I did the 'flip the gender roles' thing once, I was crazy about this guy who wasn't that into me so I took him to expensive restaurants and showered him with gifts, spent a few hundred quid on him before he finally went 'eh, I can't be bothered hanging around with you any more'. Being on that side of that kind of relationship I can say... I don't get why some guys insist on always paying. I thought I was doing a nice thing but all it really was was a dude milking me for all I was worth until he didn't want to play any more. It's too easy for people to take you for a ride if you take this approach!

Dangit2019:
If anti-feminist means being nice to girls because they're girls and would like to be to be treated nicely, than I'm anti-feminist all the way. I'll flaunt that standard until the end of fucking time.

I... I don't understand. Why can't you be nice to girls because they're people, and people like to be treated nicely?
I mean, guys like to be treated nicely too, right? Have... have I just been insulting guys all this time by treating them nicely and it turns out they actually prefer you to shut the door in their face?

jovack22:
Sorry guys, it's biology. We don't need to give birth, but it's our duty to provide for and protect.

Wait, you mean, if the guy pays I don't only have to worry about feeling obligated to have sex with him, but I'm expected to have his frickin' child? This... doesn't make me feel better about letting the guy pay at all!

Have you seen how many male coworkers/friends/family behave around one another? From an outside perspective we are dicks to one another. Granted, none of it is malicious and it is a lot of chest pounding and tail strutting, but still. The saying "with friends like these who needs enemies?" comes up often. Hell when I was a kid, my one friend got zapped (12 volts) and we laughed about it. My father turned the heat off to my room in the middle of winter just to see how long it would take for me to notice. I was behind on my schoolwork at the time and I didnt notice until I stepped on the tiles in the bathroom and my foot froze to the tile, at which point my father (and my sister) was dying of laughter. And it is not just a kid phase, Ive had 40+ year old male coworkers place a spider on me because they know how terrified i am of them.

So yea, I am much nicer to women (and not just the ones im interested in) than I am to men. I will never play a practical joke on a woman, it backfires horrendously. I also dont make jokes at their expense because it backfires horrendously. So yea, I treat female strangers better than I treat my male friends or family (or how they treat me).

As for the power dynamic, one could argue that since women typically hold the reins of if there is going to be sex, not allowing the guy to pay would shift the balance of power heavily in the woman's favor. Not saying that is how it always is, just food for thought. Sex is a pretty darn powerful advantage.

Me personally I have a strange quirk when it comes to the bill. If my meal is being payed for then I have to go as cheap as possible. Whereas if im footing the bill I will splurge on myself a little more since it is my money.

my feeling is that whoever invited the other person to dinner should probably pay. however, when the bill comes i dont just immediately take it or look at them expecting them to take it. especially on the first date/meeting/whatever, i simply ask how they would like to handle it, if they want to split or take turns.

the idea that the man should always pay is old fashioned and outdated. the argument that its just good manners is just absurd. women can work now, we can make our own money and are fully capable or supporting ourselves, financially. unless we let it known that we are financially unable to cover the whole bill at that time, a guy insisting that he pay is not polite..in fact i find it quite the opposite. also, it has been my experience that if someone needs to explain that they are nice...yeah, they probably arent that nice

tarantula:
The world is full of ill-designed polls... Some of the women of the escapist don't date men.

The poll was originally started at the behest of someone who claimed that feminism is bullshit because the majority of women still expect the guy to pay when they go out on dates.

Of course, there's more than one problem with that claim, but the fact that's patently false is a good place to start.

...I'm going to be the odd one out here, I suppose, but a pleasant date can be free as well. Actually, those are the best!

But sometimes do the cooking. As for the not-free get-togethers, well, from my experience it usually balances out. Oh sure, I know a few women who think "my date" means "my sugar daddy", but those are few and far in-between. Most of the ladies I've been out with went out with me cause they enjoyed my company, not cause they hoped for free lunch.

Well except if I invite you to a hockey game. Then the tickets are on me, I insist.

Ryotknife:
As for the power dynamic, one could argue that since women typically hold the reins of if there is going to be sex, not allowing the guy to pay would shift the balance of power heavily in the woman's favor. Not saying that is how it always is, just food for thought. Sex is a pretty darn powerful advantage.

This is a good point, and I guess another reason why I'm not happy with it. Like I said, it's also about respect to the guy as well as myself, and I'm not going to just assume he wants to get with me whatever I do just because I have boobs and the right hole. The guys-are-desperate and women-are-locks-to-be-opened mentality is pretty patronising to both groups, but you're right, it's a commonly held view and one that many guys and gals still seem to assume when they're going on dates.

Ryotknife:
Me personally I have a strange quirk when it comes to the bill. If my meal is being payed for then I have to go as cheap as possible. Whereas if im footing the bill I will splurge on myself a little more since it is my money.

I get round that by not mentioning I'm getting the bill until the end. *crafty LisaDagz is crafty*

This topic sounds like one to get people riled up.

OT: I will admit, when I was younger I let the guy pay for my meals (generally because I only went dating when I was broke and wanted a free meal) but now, I usually either go Dutch or alternate. The last 3 dates I went on were varied (I paid for both dinner and Movie, I paid for two concert tickets while she paid for hotel and food, we both paid dutch) but that is mostly due to the fact that I have the bigger income.

OP:It depends on the person, some people would prefer it if I payed and some don't mind splitting the bill.

Lieju:

Dangit2019:

And if that's sexist, than I'm afraid that I just don't give a fuck.

Then don't. But be aware you're a part of the anti-feminist idea that men and women should not be treated equally.
And that not all people view that kind of behaviour as a 'nice gesture'.

"Anti-feminist" because he is extra nice to women? ...lmao.

Dangit2019:

haha, I love you so much.

Helmholtz Watson:
OP:It depends on the person, some people would prefer it if I payed and some don't mind splitting the bill.

Lieju:

Dangit2019:

And if that's sexist, than I'm afraid that I just don't give a fuck.

Then don't. But be aware you're a part of the anti-feminist idea that men and women should not be treated equally.
And that not all people view that kind of behaviour as a 'nice gesture'.

"Anti-feminist" because he is extra nice to women? ...lmao.

Feminism = equal rights.

Treating people differently based on their sex = anti-feminist.

This kind of thinking, where the man is expected to support the woman, also leads to men feeling inadequate and unmanly if they're in a relationship where the woman earns more, and that leads to problems...

Lieju:

Feminism = equal rights.

No, feminism=women's rights movement.

Lieju:

Treating people differently based on their sex = anti-feminist.

Wrong. If I'm walking down the street at night and I see a women walking towards me, I don't pay much attention. If its a man? I definitely pay attention to what he's doing. The reason being is that, (IMO)men seem to be more violent and attack random people than women do. The fact that most muggings I hear about are done by men and all the serial killers I can think of are also men, doesn't make me feel confident that the male stranger walking past me at night won't be a violent person. I don't think that the average women posses the same kind of threat to me at night.

Lieju:

This kind of thinking, where the man is expected to support the woman, also leads to men feeling inadequate and unmanly if they're in a relationship where the woman earns more, and that leads to problems...

Then the guy is insecure, but I've never felt insecure just because I prefer to be kinder to women than men. The people you are describing seem like they have some kind of Napoleon complex.

Helmholtz Watson:

Lieju:

Feminism = equal rights.

No, feminism=women's rights movement.

The movement for equal rights, yes. How often do we have anti-feminist people going 'yeah, feminists say they want equality, but they actually only want to be treated like princesses by the men! They want none of the responsibility!'. That's a strawman feminist.

Helmholtz Watson:

Lieju:

Treating people differently based on their sex = anti-feminist.

Wrong. If I'm walking down the street at night and I see a women walking towards me, I don't pay much attention. If its a man? I definitely pay attention to what he's doing. The reason being is that, (IMO)men seem to be more violent and attack random people than women do. The fact that most muggings I hear about are done by men and all the serial killers I can think of are also men, doesn't make me feel confident that the male stranger walking past me at night won't be a violent person. I don't think that the average women posses the same kind of threat to me at night.

Men are on average more physically powerful, yes. But would you also feel equally threatened by a small guy and a big muscular one?

Helmholtz Watson:

Lieju:

This kind of thinking, where the man is expected to support the woman, also leads to men feeling inadequate and unmanly if they're in a relationship where the woman earns more, and that leads to problems...

Then the guy is insecure, but I've never felt insecure just because I prefer to be kinder to women than men. The people you are describing seem like they have some kind of Napoleon complex.

There are really dumb ideas about what it means to be 'manly', and that kind of thinking is enforcing the outdated stereotype that the man should be the provider and the stronger and the one that makes the decisions in a family.

And if you let women get through things more easily, there also is the unfortunate implication that if a woman is successfull, it's not because she is actually good, it's because she was helped.
I have been involved in some male-heavy organisations, and as a woman, I got special treatment. My work wasn't expected to be as good, and when I tried confronting people about it, they just told me 'don't raise this issue, just let people be nice to you'.
It felt awkward, and I felt bad for the fellow males in the same position as me.

Long story short, I left the place, feeling awkward there.

I should not have to go ut of my way to try to get equal treatment, in those cases where sex (or something like physical strength) does not matter.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 NEXT

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked