I can't help but feel that we wear jade colored glasses

I'm not going to dance around the topic, I can't help but feel that gamers, or at the very least a lot of them on this website, are a very cynical bunch. A good chunk of the threads on this website dedicated to how much certain developers are awful, or how certain games are awful. There's been a recent influx of this with Aliens Colonial Marines, with both the game and Gearbox catching a lot of flak for the poor quality. It isn't uncommon for there to be a large influx of threads on the Escapist, but for all of those about bad things (ME3 ending, Tomb Raider controversy, Dark Souls easy mode controversy, sexism controversy, racism controversy) I can only remember one influx of threads about something good. Skyrim, which was less about how much the game sucked and about advice.

I won't lie, I'm tired of the constant cynicism. I'm not saying that gamers should never complain about anything and that we should mindlessly consume everything that developers put out, but I'm saying that it'd be nice if we got less threads about why some games suck and more threads about why some games kick ass. I mean the more I think about it, the more gaming is becoming less and less of an enjoyable pass time and is turning into more and more of a damn war. It's us vs publishers, us vs developers, us vs bad business practice etc etc, and we should keep an eye out for things like this, but it feels like our concern about being ripped off is our primary concern. I thought that games were supposed to be about having fun, so can we just calm down a little bit, put our feet up and do just that? Have fun?

Eh, I can't be arsed to be a cynic.

Whatever happens, happens.

Life is too short to spend it complaining about how much everything is going to suck.

Probably just because they drum up discussion. I'd like to see more positivity, though. But that's why I hang around the Publisher's Club pretty often. It's not the most lively section, I admit. But it has a generally much more positive air than Gaming Discussion does.

HAHA! I get to be the one who points out that you're complaining about people complaining!

Anyways yeah people whine alot theres nothing you can do, unless of course you want to fund my Forced Global Happinessinater, it shoots happiness onto peoples brains forcing them to be happy... or explode. Probably the second one but I mean it's a start and I don't see anyone else trying.

White Lightning:
HAHA! I get to be the one who points out that you're complaining about people complaining!

Anyways yeah people whine alot theres nothing you can do, unless of course you want to fund my Forced Global Happinessinater, it shoots happiness onto peoples brains forcing them to be happy... or explode. Probably the second one but I mean it's a start and I don't see anyone else trying.

Eh...I'm not saying that complaining is bad, I'm saying that we're overly negative, to an almost healthy degree.

Life's no fun if you take everything cynically and seriously.

Daystar Clarion:
Eh, I can't be arsed to be a cynic.

What I read = I'm too jaded to jaded.

image

Welcome to the Internet. Someone will be along shortly with your name tag and complimentary drink coozie.

While I think there are a lot of trivial things that gamers get worked up about, that's part of the maturational process. And frankly, I'm glad that gaming is finally reaching a state where gamers are willing to complain in fora that could conceivably be read by game producers.

The next step, of course, if for gamers to stop the practice of buying pre-order games or buying games that they claim are poor quality. In other words, the next step in development is to go from whining to making choices that affect your world.

Katatori-kun:
Welcome to the Internet. Someone will be along shortly with your name tag and complimentary drink coozie.

"Sigh" I really should've seen that coming.

Katatori-kun:

The next step, of course, if for gamers to stop the practice of buying pre-order games or buying games that they claim are poor quality. In other words, the next step in development is to go from whining to making choices that affect your world.

There's another thing that bothers me, I'm going to use your comment as a springboard to talk about it, hope you don't mind. If you agree with people about something, its a complaint, if you don't its whining. I find that to be kinda irritating. Still you have a point...kinda. I don't see what the big deal about pre-ordering games is.

Well...what's the difference between complaining about games all the time or having higher standards than most games meet?

I don't see a problem with wanting things to be better than they are.

thaluikhain:
Well...what's the difference between complaining about games all the time or having higher standards than most games meet?

I don't see a problem with wanting things to be better than they are.

There is no problem with wanting things to be better than they are. I'm just saying that people are acting like nothing that happens to us is ever good. I mean life isn't perfect, but frankly, we have it pretty damn good. Heck, a crap ton of great games came out in 2012, but no one seems to acknowlege that with the same dedication that they give to the crap games that come out in 2012

It's funny, I'm mostly more positive about games than most people. I like, or at least, I'm completely fine with alot of games that most people seem to hate. I enjoyed aliens colonial marines. I think as much as dead island kinda suckered us in with the promise of a dramatic narrative that isn't fulfilled at all it's still one of my favourite zombie games. I can even enjoy call of duty's campaigns if the mood takes me.

I'm greatly negative in almost every other part of my life though. There are times when I see the world as a wasteland. No hope, only endless oppression by the haves on the have-nots. I see my chances of personal success as slim. I think most people are out to get me, or simply get something from me, and I most certainly think that I will always be alone, not just in the foreveralone way that unfortunately, people have come to expect from me, but in the feeling of not belonging anywhere with anyone.

Overall, I think we do need to stop being so viciously cynical about gaming. That's the thing, when gamers don't like something these days, it's not a simple matter of "I don't like it" it's "I hate this, I hate anyone who likes it, and if I can, I will attempt to utterly destroy this". That's the problem.

erttheking:

Katatori-kun:

The next step, of course, if for gamers to stop the practice of buying pre-order games or buying games that they claim are poor quality. In other words, the next step in development is to go from whining to making choices that affect your world.

There's another thing that bothers me, I'm going to use your comment as a springboard to talk about it, hope you don't mind. If you agree with people about something, its a complaint, if you don't its whining. I find that to be kinda irritating.

That wasn't what I said at all.

It's not about who agrees, it's about what you do about it. A complaint that is nothing but talk is just whining. And whining is only ever useful in small doses.

Take the Dark Souls easy mode "controversy" for example. Now, I don't give a damn about the existence of easy mode in a game I have no interest in. The disagreement is irrelevant to me so I don't agree or disagree with it, so I can't judge people as complaining or whining on that basis. I can, however, note that if you complain about there being an easy mode, but buy the game anyway, then you're whining. If the inclusion of an easy mode somehow alters the game enough that you refuse to buy it, then you've made a choice and I can respect that.

Still you have a point...kinda. I don't see what the big deal about pre-ordering games is.

Because pre-ordering commits you to purchasing a game sight-unseen and without being reviewed. Basically, it lets developers get away with selling their games by slick marketing, as opposed to making them produce quality games that people buy because they know they're good.

Katatori-kun:

erttheking:

Katatori-kun:

The next step, of course, if for gamers to stop the practice of buying pre-order games or buying games that they claim are poor quality. In other words, the next step in development is to go from whining to making choices that affect your world.

There's another thing that bothers me, I'm going to use your comment as a springboard to talk about it, hope you don't mind. If you agree with people about something, its a complaint, if you don't its whining. I find that to be kinda irritating.

That wasn't what I said at all.

It's not about who agrees, it's about what you do about it. A complaint that is nothing but talk is just whining. And whining is only ever useful in small doses.

Take the Dark Souls easy mode "controversy" for example. Now, I don't give a damn about the existence of easy mode in a game I have no interest in. The disagreement is irrelevant to me so I don't agree or disagree with it, so I can't judge people as complaining or whining on that basis. I can, however, note that if you complain about there being an easy mode, but buy the game anyway, then you're whining. If the inclusion of an easy mode somehow alters the game enough that you refuse to buy it, then you've made a choice and I can respect that.

Still you have a point...kinda. I don't see what the big deal about pre-ordering games is.

Because pre-ordering commits you to purchasing a game sight-unseen and without being reviewed. Basically, it lets developers get away with selling their games by slick marketing, as opposed to making them produce quality games that people buy because they know they're good.

I didn't say that was what you said, I said that I was using your comment as a springboard.

I don't know about that. See this is what I meant when I said that gaming was turning into a war and not a past time. If you disagree with something the developers put in the game, they put it in anyway, and then you're labeled as being a whiner if you buy it anyway? What if that one thing that they put in was the only problem you had with it?

And the pre-ordering, I don't quite buy that. Most games that I pre-order are from series that I already know, and if gameplay trailers aren't enough to sell you on a game, then really their existence has no purpose. Besides, I'm pretty sure that people bought a game and ended up not liking it before the concept of pre-ordering. And people can make bad games that they know will sell because some people jumped the gun last time? There's a bit of a leap in logic there.

See this is what I meant earlier about gaming turning into a war. Every time I walk into gamestop, I don't want to stop and think about how anything I might do might effect the state of gaming, liking buying that one game that looked neat but the developers put in one thing I disagreed with, or how putting five dollars down for a game I know I'll buy in a couple of months. I don't want to take a metric ton of responsibility every time I go shopping for video games, I want to look for things that I'll enjoy and buy games because I think I'll have fun with them.

Well, generally people don't speak up unless there's something that concerns them. For whatever reason we're just more inclined to post about our woes on the internet rather than what we find awesome. It's also true in real life. Small talk is riddled with complaints. If something is mediocre or simply good, it's far less note worthy than if something is bad and people are more inclined to point it out.

I spend most of my time on these forums trying to have fun and sometimes complaining can be fun, but I prefer to talk about why I like things rather than why I hate them. I don't really get why so many people spend their free time here only to get in rage-fueled debates that only serve to piss them off. Poor use of your personal time I'd think.

erttheking:
If you disagree with something the developers put in the game, they put it in anyway, and then you're labeled as being a whiner if you buy it anyway?

No, you're a whiner if you buy it and continue to complain about it.

What if that one thing that they put in was the only problem you had with it?

Then either you bought the game without putting any critical thought into the purchase (in which case you deserve to be unhappy), or you are spending time complaining about something that is such a minor aspect of the game that you're otherwise able to ignore it as you enjoy the game- that's as perfect a definition of whining as I can imagine.

Right, I'm going to be "that guy" for a bit.

When I read the thread title I thought this was going to be about how we are cynical as a society, not that "gamers are a whiny bunch". Because, frankly, if you[1] get jaded and cynical because of stuff that's going on on the gaming scene, please, for the love of all that's (un)holy, use the door and go out for a bit, there's a world out there.

As for complaints about game features, well. We don't have to like everything and we don't have to be quiet about the things that we don't like. And some of us are principled and/or mature enough that our actions say the same as our words.

As for cynicism in general? It's a thing, it's a real thing, it's not just something teens with identity problems use to be "cool and edgy". My personal outlook on the world is a rather cynical one, ironically, often only because I hate beating around the bush. That's extended to the gaming scene, of course - I don't give a rat's ass about PR, public statement, advertising or what John Riccitello had for breakfast this morning. I'm not an easily swayed customer; I have never been brand-loyal in the first place and I judge every individual game on it's merits.

Say, the quote unquote "ME3 controversy"; When I heard they shoved in multiplayer that has an effect on the singleplayer campaign I said, no thanks. And I did not go, as many people did, "But...but...Mass Effect 3!" Then I ended up playing some on a friend's console, and was glad I didn't buy it anyway. By the way, chew me out for being a hypocrite if you want, I see it more as "giving it one last chance" in that pretentious, self-righteous way.

After all, companies don't exist to make money. Companies exist to bring me, the customer, something I'm willing to buy. If they do not, they do not get my money.

[1] Especially you, the one who's reading this at this very moment!

Katatori-kun:

erttheking:
If you disagree with something the developers put in the game, they put it in anyway, and then you're labeled as being a whiner if you buy it anyway?

No, you're a whiner if you buy it and continue to complain about it.

What if that one thing that they put in was the only problem you had with it?

Then either you bought the game without putting any critical thought into the purchase (in which case you deserve to be unhappy), or you are spending time complaining about something that is such a minor aspect of the game that you're otherwise able to ignore it as you enjoy the game- that's as perfect a definition of whining as I can imagine.

I have to disagree, Jim Sterling constantly gets on the Dead Space trilogy, yet states that it is his favorite new IP of the year. He complains about the things that were in them because you can like a game, but still have problems with it. Honestly the ultimatum you seem to be laying down is shut up or don't play the game, and it feels like a cop out. And really, how can you complain about a game you haven't played?

erttheking:

Katatori-kun:

erttheking:
If you disagree with something the developers put in the game, they put it in anyway, and then you're labeled as being a whiner if you buy it anyway?

No, you're a whiner if you buy it and continue to complain about it.

What if that one thing that they put in was the only problem you had with it?

Then either you bought the game without putting any critical thought into the purchase (in which case you deserve to be unhappy), or you are spending time complaining about something that is such a minor aspect of the game that you're otherwise able to ignore it as you enjoy the game- that's as perfect a definition of whining as I can imagine.

I have to disagree, Jim Sterling constantly gets on the Dead Space trilogy, yet states that it is his favorite new IP of the year. He complains about the things that were in them because you can like a game, but still have problems with it. Honestly the ultimatum you seem to be laying down is shut up or don't play the game, and it feels like a cop out. And really, how can you complain about a game you haven't played?

How odd- you started this thread as a complaint about complaining, and now you're defending complaining that you agree with as justified. Ironically after complaining about your perception that the validity of complaints are determined by whether or not one agrees with them. You've pretty much just demonstrated every behavior you've complained about in this thread.

Not saying you don't have the right to do all these things. Just saying there's a bit of hypocrisy going on.

Katatori-kun:

erttheking:

Katatori-kun:

No, you're a whiner if you buy it and continue to complain about it.

Then either you bought the game without putting any critical thought into the purchase (in which case you deserve to be unhappy), or you are spending time complaining about something that is such a minor aspect of the game that you're otherwise able to ignore it as you enjoy the game- that's as perfect a definition of whining as I can imagine.

I have to disagree, Jim Sterling constantly gets on the Dead Space trilogy, yet states that it is his favorite new IP of the year. He complains about the things that were in them because you can like a game, but still have problems with it. Honestly the ultimatum you seem to be laying down is shut up or don't play the game, and it feels like a cop out. And really, how can you complain about a game you haven't played?

How odd- you started this thread as a complaint about complaining, and now you're defending complaining that you agree with as justified. Ironically after complaining about your perception that the validity of complaints are determined by whether or not one agrees with them. You've pretty much just demonstrated every behavior you've complained about in this thread.

Not saying you don't have the right to do all these things. Just saying there's a bit of hypocrisy going on.

No. I never said that. In fact in the OP I said "I'm not saying that gamers should never complain about anything and that we should mindlessly consume everything that developers put out, but I'm saying that it'd be nice if we got less threads about why some games suck and more threads about why some games kick ass" I am not complaining about complaining. I am complaining about rampant cynicism. There is a difference.

I also said this "it's us vs publishers, us vs developers, us vs bad business practice etc etc, and we should keep an eye out for things like this, but it feels like our concern about being ripped off is our primary concern." I'm saying that we're letting our fear and distrust of publishers and developers get the better of us, I didn't say that we should stop complaining. Don't put words in my mouth

Here's the thing though, posts like this one and the one above me and the one above that one are only a tiny slice of someone's thoughts. Reading through a "complaint" thread you might think everyone is a sour individual because of their posts. But you look through a thread discussing something positive, and those same people will have plenty of nice things to say.

It's easy to take a negative post at face value and figure the person behind it is jaded, but that one post is not representative of their entire personality.

Casual Shinji:
Here's the thing though, posts like this one and the one above me and the one above that one are only a tiny slice of someone's thoughts. Reading through a "complaint" thread you might think everyone is a sour individual because of their posts. But you look through a thread discussing something positive, and those same people will have plenty of nice things to say.

It's easy to take a negative post at face value and figure the person behind it is jaded, but that one post is not representative of their entire personality.

You make a decent point and I probably wouldn't mind so much, but the ratio of negative posts to non negative ones is a lot smaller than I wished it would be.

Katatori-kun:

The next step, of course, if for gamers to stop the practice of buying pre-order games or buying games that they claim are poor quality. In other words, the next step in development is to go from whining to making choices that affect your world.

*snaps fingers*
Sure, I'll fill in the douchy hipster quota for the day.

*ahem*

I stopped buying games from the Big Pubs before it was ever "cool" to hate them..
...man.

 

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