Did the new Penny Arcade story make anyone else uncomfortable?

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Lord Garnaat:
... but this time it's seemed like less of just a throwaway thing they put in for the sake of a joke and more of a story of how awesome drugs are.

Sure, apart from where it's explicitly stated that he didn't see what the big deal about it was.

So in the end I feel sort of silly for being so scared of it for so long. In practice it's actually sort of boring. You do it and then you lay on the couch and watch TV. Having tried it now I can confirm that I have no desire to move to meth or try some crack.

So all's well that ends well.

Orange12345:
to be honest here in Canada (at least where I live) nobody gives a fuck about weed, I have never met someone who had a problem with people smoking it (responsibly of course)

I had a problem with my roommate smoking it every single day in the apartment, especially when it got around to exam time. he wouldn't use a vaporizer either which I gather is supposed to filter the smell.

but other than that, no problems

Though I'd have the same problem with regular smoking.

It seems a bit random for a gaming comic...but no it doesn't make me uncomfotable. Perhaps it's like someone else suggested and it's just that you have been told it's dangerous and stuff.

I wish it was legal in the UK, I need an operation atm and the painkillers they have given me in the mean time do absolutely nothing even though they are pretty strong :( Maybe some weed would help.

Well I'm dutch, so it didn't bother me at all. Pretty much all my friends smoke weed, and the only reason I usually don't is because it makes me throw up like nobody's business. But really as a substance it's fine, I would actually rate it "better than alcohol". Because it just doesn't have as much negative effects, from my experience. Like I've never seen anyone get all fighty from weed. And people don't tend to get sick from it either, unless they're total pussies like myself.

Still, there's better stuff out there, harhar.

omega 616:

I am not sure where you are from but there is a place in the UK called Liverpool, it's not a very nice place but in Liverpool there is a place called Croxteth ... it's like Detroit.

I worked there for 6 months, out of 36 people I was the only one not smoking weed. My "co-workers" literally smoked it morning(as they woke up), morning break, dinner, afternoon break and probably some more in the evening, to call them heavy users would be laughable.

I have heard just about every "good" property of weed known to man, I've heard every single ridiculous name for every variety of weed.

What I was saying is smoking anything is bad, I said weed 'cos that is what this thread is about but I was applying smoking as a general term.

Everybody knows putting smoke into your lungs isn't a healthy choice. Since weed is smoked with tabaco, which is almost always smoked itself.

Actually if you smoke multiple joints every day you are already a heavy user. On top of that since it is consistent use odds are they are addicted. I mean if i were to drink 5 beers every day i'd probably come to the conclusion i have a problem.

And the smoke itself isn't the only problem of pot. It also has nasty effects on your brain. The two most significant effects are higher levels of anxiety and severely increased chances to suffer from a psychosis.

But my point was simply that the effects of weed are usually severely underestimated by users and as such they don't really know what they're getting into.

No, but personally I'm extremely pro-legalization. I used to smoke a lot of pot, and the only reason I don't anymore is because of the risk of drug screening at my job. Frankly, I find that ridiculous, as what I do on my own time is my business.

generals3:

Funny thing is that Weed is probably the most underestimated drug out there. They once carried out a study about the effects of weed on your mental health and the funny thing is that those who were given updates on their test results were much more likely to stop weed than those who weren't told about the impact weed had on their mental health.

From personal experience, pot has been a very good antidepressant and anti-anxiety treatment for me. If it were legal where I live, I would probably smoke a little every day after work the way many people have a glass of wine as a "relaxer". Pot is definitely far less dangerous than any other drug out there.

omega 616:

Everybody knows putting smoke into your lungs isn't a healthy choice. Since weed is smoked with tabaco, which is almost always smoked itself.

Pot isn't smoked with tobacco, generally; it's smoked by itself. And it's not as dangerous as tobacco because a) you can't chain-smoke it (you'll pass out if you try) and b) unlike commercial tobacco products, it's not generally cut with carcinogens. Smoking anything is definitely not the healthiest choice, but I'm willing to bet if you compare the lungs of someone who only smokes marijuana against someone who only smokes tobacco, there'll be a pretty noticeable difference.

Neverhoodian:
I'll admit I have a negative outlook on marijuana due to the following reasons:

*One of my uncles smoked pot as a teenager, became addicted and eventually started taking more hardcore drugs. He's been clean for a few decades now, but he'll be the first to tell you that pot can be a "gateway drug."

*My former roommate smoked pot, and he was a grade-A asshole.

*Marijuana smells fucking disgusting to me. Seriously, I don't know how users put up with that sickly sweet stench. I also find tobacco smoke unpleasant, but I'd much rather smell that if given the choice.

Having said that, I'm still mildly supportive of legalizing marijuana, mostly because it would make life more difficult for the dangerous criminals and drug cartels that distribute large amounts of the substance. If people insist on taking the stuff, then fine. Just respect my personal choice not to (and stay downwind of me, the stench tends to linger).

Pot is not chemically addictive. At all. I suspect your uncle had a dealer that pushed harder stuff on him (one of the arguments for legalizing it) or hung out with other hard drug users. I (and many, many other people) frequently smoked pot for a long time and never touched any harder stuff. I don't mean to be disrespectful to your uncle, but generally the people who become "addicted" to pot and move on to harder drugs have addictive personalities. Please don't blame the drug.

And yeah, plenty of people who smoke pot are assholes, too. I loathe potheads. Even the nice ones are unbearably annoying about it.

Personally, I like the smell of good weed, but like the taste of beer, it was something of an acquired taste. As for respecting your choice, if someone offers you some pot and you say "No thanks" and they keep pushing the issue, they're a dick, period.

I didn't get that impression in the slightest. I'm not sure where exactly you see the peer pressure, since no one was forced into anything. And the whole story was about no longer fearing something that you have no reason to fear, especially when that fear itself is destructive. It struck me as a very reasonable and thoughtful perspective on legalizing pot. The only thing that made me feel weird was how completely outside the realm of there normal material it was. Sure they will go into technology and various other, "Geek stuff", politics that can have a tangential connection with geeky concerns, and surreal humor, but it always feels sort of thematically tied. This was just straight up about a political issue that was absolutely out of the blue. I mean...it was good, thoughtful, and funny. It was worth reading. It was just odd.

omega 616:
an intelligent person wouldn't drink alcohol or smoke or take drugs. They wouldn't need to do those things to relax or enjoy life. They would weigh the pros against the cons and realize that most forms of drugs are bad and not do them.

Please tell me this isn't serious. Let me leave my personal experience with alcohol out of this, since statements of an anonymous individual about his level of intelligence are pretty much useless. No, I want you to look up a list of famous intelligent people. You'll have a hard time finding one who /didn't/ drink, and a lot of history's most celebrated geniuses were outright alcoholics -- Ernest Hemingway, Vincent Van Gogh, hell, even Winston Churchill[1] was a hard drinker, and that's just scratching the surface.

In short, please don't take DARE's propaganda as fact.

[1] The man may not have been an artistic genius, but a quick look at anything he ever said will tell you he was pretty darned intelligent. Not to mention, he was one of the greatest world leaders in history. He also drank harder than a frat boy.

Cancer victims smoke marijuana.

It's gonna be okay, I promise.

I'm afflicted with severe anxiety problems. I really wish pot wasn't so stigmatized and illegal when I was growing into my young adult life. If it wasn't, I would have likely had some on a semi-regular basis and would have had a better life being able to manage my anxiety and depression.

generals3:
snip

Yeah, that's what I said, they're heavy users.

TheMagicLemur:
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Tell them that 'cos that is what they where doing, roll a normal cig then "sprinkle" weed in there and finish up.

Owyn_Merrilin:
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No, it wasn't serious at all ... why would I type out all that and not be serious? Oh, you mean it in a condescending manner, okay.

Oh, I see what you're saying in order to be a true genius you have to drink. Listing Van Gough a genius? 'cos who needs ears, right?

They drunk to deal with shit, it's not uncommon for the more intelligent to be depressed and what's the easiest/most common way to deal with depression? You get no prizes for saying booze.

Saying "geniuses drink so drinking is a smart thing to do" is a stupid thing to say, they did it 'cos they were depressed ... as a way to escape. I know it's only a tv show but "House" had a few episodes dealing with this kind of stuff, a legendary jazz trumpeter John Henry Giles said

There was others that I had lined up but I forget them trying to remember "John Henry Giles", oh well such is life.

WTF is DARE?

I think if you change "Christianity" to "alcohol" in this video it would make my feelings clear.

EDIT: smart men can be stupid ...

omega 616:

Not quite, an intelligent person wouldn't drink alcohol or smoke or take drugs. They wouldn't need to do those things to relax or enjoy life. They would weigh the pros against the cons and realize that most forms of drugs are bad and not do them.

Speaking as an intelligent person, you have no idea what you're talking about. Alcohol is an excellent way to take your mind off of all the crap going on in the world that the less-intelligent amongst us are blessedly incapable of perceiving.

Edit:

omega 616:

They drunk to deal with shit, it's not uncommon for the more intelligent to be depressed and what's the easiest/most common way to deal with depression? You get no prizes for saying booze.

Shot your own argument in the foot there.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE
THE GOVERNMENT HAS LIED TO YOU MANY TIMES BEFORE, AND IT CONTINUES TO DO SO. AS IT WILL AD INFINITUM. YOUR PARENTS ARE MUCH THE SAME. FOR THE MOST PART THEY DO IT BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IT IS GOOD FOR YOU. IT OFTEN IS.

Well. Now I can go die in the knowledge that I really am a pretentious sack of shit.
Still. It's the truth. Drugs are not Satan, and the things you have been taught are often lies.
That doesn't mean you should go shoot yourself full of every mind-altering substance you can find (even though you totally should).

omega 616:

generals3:
snip

Yeah, that's what I said, they're heavy users.

TheMagicLemur:
snip

Tell them that 'cos that is what they where doing, roll a normal cig then "sprinkle" weed in there and finish up.

Owyn_Merrilin:
snip

No, it wasn't serious at all ... why would I type out all that and not be serious? Oh, you mean it in a condescending manner, okay.

Oh, I see what you're saying in order to be a true genius you have to drink. Listing Van Gough a genius? 'cos who needs ears, right?

They drunk to deal with shit, it's not uncommon for the more intelligent to be depressed and what's the easiest/most common way to deal with depression? You get no prizes for saying booze.

Saying "geniuses drink so drinking is a smart thing to do" is a stupid thing to say, they did it 'cos they were depressed ... as a way to escape. I know it's only a tv show but "House" had a few episodes dealing with this kind of stuff, a legendary jazz trumpeter John Henry Giles said

There was others that I had lined up but I forget them trying to remember "John Henry Giles", oh well such is life.

WTF is DARE?

I think if you change "Christianity" to "alcohol" in this video it would make my feelings clear.

EDIT: smart men can be stupid ...

Actually, I was saying "geniuses drink, so clearly it's not as black and white as 'stupid people drink, smart people will do a cost/benefit analysis and invariably come to the conclusion that it's not worth the risk.'" I would ask if you even read the thing I quoted, but since you wrote it, it's kind of implied that you have.

And the first two people on the list were examples of geniuses who were also full blown alcoholics, not just geniuses who drank. The third person was a very intelligent man who drank a lot, but was not actually an alcoholic. He's more representative of smart people as a whole than they are, although I'd imagine moderate drinkers are even more common.

Edit: By the way, in that clip you posted? Had alcohol never existed, humanity never would have left the hunter gatherer stage, let alone created a utopia like that. See, alcohol is a powerful disinfectant. It was really good at making pre-modern city water clean and parasite free. That's why when you read ancient literature, there's references to people mixing wine with their water. It's to make it safe to drink.

First things first. Ahem.

Legalize it, man!

Yeah. Someone above said that marijuana should be a choice, not a crime. I fully agree. All scientific research shows that marijuana is less harmful than either tobacco or alcohol. It was originally made illegal to satisfy the cotton lobby who was afraid of hemp replacing cotton. That it remains illegal is an insult to anyone who has suffered from abuse of drugs that are actual dangerous (like heroine).

And no, I have never tried marijuana. While it remains illegal in my state, I will continue to not use it. But the moment it becomes legal, I'm baking brownies (since smoking it would harm my lungs).

Ahem.

Secondly, I don't read Penny Arcade (although I do watch Checkpoint and Extra Credits there, as well as Strip Search), so I can't comment on how the comic deals with the issue.

Edit: Ha! I was the first to say "legalize it!" I just did a search to confirm it. Yay!

romanator0:

You would do well to remember that at one point alcohol WAS illegal in the United States. One of the reasons it is legal now is because of how big the shit fit that everybody threw was.

And when you consider the war on drugs is a giant, lethal shit fit, the comparison still makes quite a bit of sense.

Loop Stricken:
snip

Do you think it's a bit arrogant to call yourself intelligent? Just asking.

Ecstasy is an even better way "to take your mind off all the crap going on in the world", so is that better than alcohol or weed? Just 'cos it is a good way to do something, doesn't mean it is the best or only way to do it ... just takes the least effort.

Did you know exercising is a good way to forget about it all? Releases those feel good hormones and is good for you but that would require you exerting yourself, getting sweaty, takes some time ... "ain't nobody got time for that", sooo much easier to buy poison and down 6 pints of it, amirite!?

Never did any such thing.

I said it's the easiest way to do it, never said it was the only way.

I'm not saying I'm perfect, I have a very unhealthy diet (yesterday I had a muffin, mocha, monster energy drink, 12 cherry bake wells, a very large bowl of pasta with an unhealthy sauce) and I never exercise (I do walk a lot but come on, that's barely exercise).

It just seemed accurate and honest to me. The whole Drug topic is one i love to discuss. I just find it endlessly interesting and ironic, We have such low opinions of countries like China who impose such oppressive restrictions on their populace but we are blind to the propaganda which is lies and misinformation our governments have used on us over the years for the benefit of select interests agenda's.

Did you even read the articles you are talking about, OP? None of what you are describing happened.

They weren't glorifying drugs or making them seem awesome, they were merely pointing out that demonising them is a fucking stupid thing to do when far more dangerous drugs like alcohol and tobacco have been legal for years.

I'm sorry it made you feel uncomfortable but I found it interesting reading Mike's personal stance on drugs and how that's changed in recent years.

omega 616:

Loop Stricken:
snip

Do you think it's a bit arrogant to call yourself intelligent? Just asking.

Ecstasy is an even better way "to take your mind off all the crap going on in the world", so is that better than alcohol or weed? Just 'cos it is a good way to do something, doesn't mean it is the best or only way to do it ... just takes the least effort.

Did you know exercising is a good way to forget about it all? Releases those feel good hormones and is good for you but that would require you exerting yourself, getting sweaty, takes some time ... "ain't nobody got time for that", sooo much easier to buy poison and down 6 pints of it, amirite!?

Never did any such thing.

I said it's the easiest way to do it, never said it was the only way.

I'm not saying I'm perfect, I have a very unhealthy diet (yesterday I had a muffin, mocha, monster energy drink, 12 cherry bake wells, a very large bowl of pasta with an unhealthy sauce) and I never exercise (I do walk a lot but come on, that's barely exercise).

If you'd like, I can list an assortment of people considered intelligent who used drugs of some kind. Or, you just admit you were wrong and be done with this.

omega 616:

Darken12:
snip

This.

Alcohol is the cause of so much shit, from drunk drivers to alcoholics to making babies to breaking of relationships but it's perfectly legal.

Yet weed is illegal? I Would never smoke weed (I don't smoke normal cigs or drink alcohol) but who the fuck am I to tell people what they shouldn't do to themselves? They know the risks and they made the choice to do it, as long as there choice doesn't effect others negatively I don't care.

and an even more "what the shit", cigarets are banned from advertising everywhere beyond magazines.

Sure, they cause health problems, but alcohol is advertised everywhere, even on TV where Children can see them.

90% of alcohol commercials? sex, partying, people having a good time, essentially "you will be cool if you drink".

Last time I checked, the number of deaths from cigarets was relatively low as compared to alcohol. When was the last time you heard of someone dieing in a car accident from smoking too many cigarets?

sorry, I always found it a bit hypocritical.

OT: I dont like drug users, any drug users, any user of any drug. Namely because the money spent more often than not ends up in the hands of cartels.

If you absolutely want/have to smoke weed, then you should grow it yourself, for your own consumption.

also, I know like, five people who died from a Marijuana overdose after they injected it into their arms

Kaulen Fuhs:
If you'd like, I can list an assortment of people considered intelligent who used drugs of some kind. Or, you just admit you were wrong and be done with this.

Are you intentionally missing my point or what? Even after explaining it multiple times in the same post, you still miss it? Okay, here we go again.

Intelligent people don't 100% of the time do smart things. A smart person once cut his ear off, should every person do it, 'cos surely if a smart person did it, then it must be a smart thing to do ... right?

I just remembered the other house episode! A guy was a mathematical genius but drunk vodka to be stupid.

No. Just unpleasant. No matter what I did, it really wasn't good enough. Then I met Dora. She didn't care how smart I was, or what I might accomplish in the future. It was the first time in my life that I was *really* happy. So I decided I'd rather be happy than smart.

Anyway, that's not really important.

Where was I? Oh, yeah. Intelligence has nothing to do with doing dumb shit, youtube was built on this idea. Type in "fail" into youtube and see how many videos come up, then see how many times you think "how can anybody be this stupid".

People are like electricity, always take the easiest route. Why work out to feel good when you can buy booze? Plus the social pressure 'cos it's so cool to drink and the stigma of "the sober one is the boring one".

I mean look at this, I attack alcohol and people start jumping to it's defense like I just attacked your favorite band or game. It's more akin to an emotional response than "well, yeah alcohol is a damaging and extremely dangerous drug that is ingrained in our culture".

You're argument is nothing but "smart people did it so it's a smart thing to do", which is so sheepish! "well my favorite celeb dyed her hair red, so I will".

omega 616:

You're argument is nothing but "smart people did it so it's a smart thing to do", which is so sheepish! "well my favorite celeb dyed her hair red, so I will".

I've argued no such thing. Your original statement was that intelligent people don't drink alcohol or engage in other forms of drug use. This is demonstrably false.

omega 616:

Kaulen Fuhs:
If you'd like, I can list an assortment of people considered intelligent who used drugs of some kind. Or, you just admit you were wrong and be done with this.

Are you intentionally missing my point or what? Even after explaining it multiple times in the same post, you still miss it? Okay, here we go again.

Intelligent people don't 100% of the time do smart things. A smart person once cut his ear off, should every person do it, 'cos surely if a smart person did it, then it must be a smart thing to do ... right?

I just remembered the other house episode! A guy was a mathematical genius but drunk vodka to be stupid.

No. Just unpleasant. No matter what I did, it really wasn't good enough. Then I met Dora. She didn't care how smart I was, or what I might accomplish in the future. It was the first time in my life that I was *really* happy. So I decided I'd rather be happy than smart.

Anyway, that's not really important.

Where was I? Oh, yeah. Intelligence has nothing to do with doing dumb shit, youtube was built on this idea. Type in "fail" into youtube and see how many videos come up, then see how many times you think "how can anybody be this stupid".

People are like electricity, always take the easiest route. Why work out to feel good when you can buy booze? Plus the social pressure 'cos it's so cool to drink and the stigma of "the sober one is the boring one".

I mean look at this, I attack alcohol and people start jumping to it's defense like I just attacked your favorite band or game. It's more akin to an emotional response than "well, yeah alcohol is a damaging and extremely dangerous drug that is ingrained in our culture".

You're argument is nothing but "smart people did it so it's a smart thing to do", which is so sheepish! "well my favorite celeb dyed her hair red, so I will".

And you're moving the goal posts. Here's what we're responding to, as I quoted it in my first post in this thread:

omega 616:
an intelligent person wouldn't drink alcohol or smoke or take drugs. They wouldn't need to do those things to relax or enjoy life. They would weigh the pros against the cons and realize that most forms of drugs are bad and not do them.

And here's the whole thing to prove we're not taking anything out of context:

omega 616:

romanator0:

omega 616:

This.

Alcohol is the cause of so much shit, from drunk drivers to alcoholics to making babies to breaking of relationships but it's perfectly legal.

Yet weed is illegal? I Would never smoke weed (I don't smoke normal cigs or drink alcohol) but who the fuck am I to tell people what they shouldn't do to themselves? They know the risks and they made the choice to do it, as long as there choice doesn't effect others negatively I don't care.

You would do well to remember that at one point alcohol WAS illegal in the United States. One of the reasons it is legal now is because of how big the shit fit that everybody threw was.

There is also the little fact that when someone is high or drunk they are likely to do something stupid that a normal, intelligent person wouldn't that very well might negatively effect other people.

You mean prohibition? Yeah, I remember ... All the speak easies and the mafia running it all etc.

Not quite, an intelligent person wouldn't drink alcohol or smoke or take drugs. They wouldn't need to do those things to relax or enjoy life. They would weigh the pros against the cons and realize that most forms of drugs are bad and not do them.

Alas alcohol is fanaticized over, everyday millions of pints are drunk and shots downed. Sure, research says "a glass of wine every so often reduces heart problems" but nobody sticks to that! Instead of 1 glass a week, it's a bottle a night.

After work have 6 cans or go the pub and have half a dozen pints.

No matter how poor people are in the UK, they will always find money for alcohol.

If you want to be super accurate, I am addicted to drugs ... my caffine and sugar intake is quite alarming.

We're not arguing that smart people don't occasionally do stupid things. We're getting annoyed that you said only stupid people drink.

Kalezian:

OT: I dont like drug users, any drug users, any user of any drug. Namely because the money spent more often than not ends up in the hands of cartels.

If you absolutely want/have to smoke weed, then you should grow it yourself, for your own consumption.

also, I know like, five people who died from a Marijuana overdose after they injected it into their arms

That's a new one. I've never had someone suggest I do something even more illegal than what I'm doing to solve a problem. Getting caught buying a small amount of weed gets you in less trouble than having a bunch of plants in your house.

Also, what dumbass puts weed in a needle? That's just ill advised.

Kalezian:

I dont like drug users, any drug users, any user of any drug. Namely because the money spent more often than not ends up in the hands of cartels.

If you absolutely want/have to smoke weed, then you should grow it yourself, for your own consumption.

also, I know like, five people who died from a Marijuana overdose after they injected it into their arms

The money ends up in the cartel's hands, namely because it's illegal

also, you aren't meant to inject weed into your bloodstream, the oil will do a number on your arteries

Fun fact: Intelligent people are far more likely to use illicit drugs than stupid people.

There are a variety of possible reasons for this. The first is that DARE programs and the like tend to use very simple messages that wouldn't appeal to someone with, well, the ability to think in a complex manner. In addition, DARE, etc tend to outright lie about the effects of drugs/alcohol, and while this scare-mongering works well for the uneducated, the educated both will recognize when what they've been told is full of shit but ALSO research the effects themselves and make a reasoned and informed decision to try it themselves. A calculated risk.

A link on the subject, which, despite its very obvious bias (they are outright incorrect in saying that psychoactive drugs have largely negative effects and few/no positive effects), has the source for the fact I provided above:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201010/why-intelligent-people-use-more-drugs

With weed legalization spreading throughout the US, I think you'll finally start to see the many absolutely pathetic rumors about weed start to melt away. And this comic doesn't seem to be advocating use, just advocating thoughts on the subject.

Kaulen Fuhs:
snip.

Owyn_Merrilin:
snip

Always so literal. Fine I'll admit my mistake (personally, I blame character development in films), I should have said "intelligent people are lazy and stupid at times" ... although, without reading back I am like 40% sure I said somewhere.

I bet there are intelligent people with no vices, there has to be one.

xPixelatedx:
then the world is quite literally passing you by.

That would require being inside a spaceship or station that was completely still. Except... in a universe where all bodies are in constant motion how does one calculate complete stillness, since all speeds are measured relatively to one another...?... [tokes] whooooaaaaa!

OP: Even if it's somewhat outlawed here in Canada, I've never considered weed to be taboo or something worth getting uncomfortable about. Almost everybody I know has smoked it at some point, and a lot of their parents too. Sure, there are a few who do it too much, but excess of anything is unhealthy.

It's something I figured was just kind of a widely accepted "under the table" aspect of society (like those VHS tapes at the back of your parents' underwear drawer), and that only the squarest of cops, politicians, devouts, and organizations gave a damn about it. And most people consider those guys kind of a joke anyway, aside from the fact that they have power and like to waste shitloads of tax money on needless incarceration. Considering the huge amount of movies, shows, songs, etc. about it, I also figured it was the same any place else, even though I know the strictness of laws around it vary from place to place.

That being said, somebody writing an article to express their opinion about weed has little to no effect whatsoever on my opinion of that person or that site. Unless it was, like, an article about how to laso and hang kittens with ropes made from weed... [tokes again] whooooaaaaa!

It didn't make me feel uncomfortable. If anything it just reminded me that they should legalise it in the UK, at least then they could tax it and take away the criminal element.

omega 616:

Where was I? Oh, yeah. Intelligence has nothing to do with doing dumb shit, youtube was built on this idea. Type in "fail" into youtube and see how many videos come up, then see how many times you think "how can anybody be this stupid".

People are like electricity, always take the easiest route. Why work out to feel good when you can buy booze? Plus the social pressure 'cos it's so cool to drink and the stigma of "the sober one is the boring one".

I mean look at this, I attack alcohol and people start jumping to it's defense like I just attacked your favorite band or game. It's more akin to an emotional response than "well, yeah alcohol is a damaging and extremely dangerous drug that is ingrained in our culture".

You're argument is nothing but "smart people did it so it's a smart thing to do", which is so sheepish! "well my favorite celeb dyed her hair red, so I will".

...That was never his argument. You are the only one who asserted a link (a negative one), and provided no evidence; Owyn argued that your link didn't exist. He didn't argue for a positive link between alcohol and intelligence; that's a strawman.

People aren't jumping on you because you opined about alcohol; they're jumping on you because you called them all stupid, without providing any evidence.

omega 616:

Kaulen Fuhs:
snip.

Owyn_Merrilin:
snip

Always so literal. Fine I'll admit my mistake (personally, I blame character development in films), I should have said "intelligent people are lazy and stupid at times" ... although, without reading back I am like 40% sure I said somewhere.

I bet there are intelligent people with no vices, there has to be one.

You're almost certainly correct; the biggest problem is, in my mind, the demonization of these "vices", despite there being plenty of circumstances under which there is no victim to speak of. Can alcohol cause great harm and ruin lives? Of course, but it does not do so necessarily. The trick is to find balance in such a way that vices enrich our lives by allowing a way for one to enjoy themselves without causing havoc in other areas.

Silvanus:
...That was never his argument. You are the only one who asserted a link (a negative one), and provided no evidence; Owyn argued that your link didn't exist. He didn't argue for a positive link between alcohol and intelligence; that's a strawman.

People aren't jumping on you because you're opinionated about alcohol; they're jumping on you because you called them all stupid, without providing any evidence.

Now you're just beating a dead horse, read my previous post.

I never directly called them stupid, get mod wrath for that. I made a mistake, which I have admitted to and hopefully corrected any misunderstandings.

I think the decision to drink is a stupid one, the people who drink aren't stupid ... see the difference? Getting a tattoo of your partners name is a stupid move but the person who got the tattoo might have a PHD.

Kaulen Fuhs:

omega 616:

Kaulen Fuhs:
snip.

Owyn_Merrilin:
snip

Always so literal. Fine I'll admit my mistake (personally, I blame character development in films), I should have said "intelligent people are lazy and stupid at times" ... although, without reading back I am like 40% sure I said somewhere.

I bet there are intelligent people with no vices, there has to be one.

You're almost certainly correct; the biggest problem is, in my mind, the demonization of these "vices", despite there being plenty of circumstances under which there is no victim to speak of. Can alcohol cause great harm and ruin lives? Of course, but it does not do so necessarily. The trick is to find balance in such a way that vices enrich our lives by allowing a way for one to enjoy themselves without causing havoc in other areas.

I still don't think we're on the same wave length, in my ideal world (which sounds very Hitler-like) alcohol and all drugs would be gone (as would a lot of other stuff that would not only derail this thread but get me flamed). Think of all the people who would still be alive if the drunk driver couldn't have been drunk? How many work days spent curing a hang over? How many millions saved instead of treating drunks? How many beatings could have been stopped if the person wasn't drunk? And why do people do it 'cos it's the easiest way to relax/have fun.

I know I sound like one of the bad guys in a film "think of the potential you're wasting ... I'm doing it for your own good" but it's what I believe.

One of my personal pet peeves is people pushing there views onto other people (vegans making you feel bad for eating a burger, for example), so I am not going to attack anybody for drinking, smoking or doing drugs ... it's your life, do as you please with it. If you know the risks and are happy with them, then who am I to stop you?

I only state my opinions 'cos that is what you do on a forum.

omega 616:

Now you're just beating a dead horse, read my previous post. I never directly called them stupid, get mod wrath for that. I made a mistake, which I have admitted to and hopefully corrected any misunderstandings.

You're right, I missed that one. Sorry, didn't mean to retread old ground.

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