Why is Atkins coming back?

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BoredAussieGamer:
I am remember David Mitchell's rant about the atkins diet:

And I think to myself, that's a god-damn excellent question you have there.

Wow. That guy is an idiot.

Yan007:
As a bodybuilder, I have a high protein low carbs diet and just take in enough carbs to fuel my needs when I train. Carbs are mostly bad for you in the amount people eat nowadays. Think of it from an evolutionary standpoint: why would mother nature make us crave things that would kill us (meat, fat...)? Carbs are extremely recent in the whole of human history and our ancestors were pretty big before they settled down and started farming.

Pfft! What would a body builder know about a healthy diet? I mean, it's not like they're in peak physical strength and spend large amounts of time researching nutrition.
...Oh wait.
Body builders are the one group of people I dont argue with about diet and nutrition, because every time I do, I get shot down in flames. Whilst I know a fair bit about nutrition, every body builder i've met knows more than I do.
But then, if the media has taught us anything, it's that the guy with muscles must surely be borderline mentaly challenged so that I can feel good about being a lazy whinger. Because if I dont know what 621 is, then nobody does! (I actually do.)
Unfortunately, we as a species, have never been to crash hot on listening and learning from others.

Here's a simple way of eating:
IF IT GROWS, THEN YOU CAN EAT IT.
IF IT DOESNT GROW, DONT F@#KING EAT IT!!!

Marowit:
Don't confuse DKA with starvation Ketosis. Starvation ketosis is what you mimic with a low/no carb diet, you force your body to metabolize fatty acids rather than carbs, and not diabetic ketoACIDOSIS. Starvation ketosis is a state we, as a species, were in much more commonly than times of bountiful carbohydrates (as we are today). DKA is a severe form of ketosis as a result of your body being unable to take any sugar into it's cells (DM1), but it's actually the fluid/electrolyte imbalance during DKA, as a result of the severe metabolic acidosis, that kills you not metabolizing ketones as an energy source. The metabolic acidosis that occurs during DKA is orders of magnitude more severe than the acidosis that results from starvation ketosis.

Yes, I know, hence why I appended at least twice that it was manageable by young and healthy people. The severity is not the same, true, but the electrolyte imbalance happens in both cases (though not with the same severity, admittedly). Any excess in ketoacids shifts blood pH towards acidaemia, which by itself always causes electrolyte imbalance (bicarbonate lowers as it buffers the ketoacids, which might affect electrolyte exchange at the renal level, particularly when it comes to potassium), and therefore might be harmful if other unrelated disorders are co-occurring (such as lactoacidosis, hypoventilation, renal failure, drug abuse (barbiturates, for example, which cause severe hypoventilation), renal tubular acidosis, and so on).

While the severity is not the same, the mechanisms of ketoacid metabolism (which happen in both uncompensated diabetes and no-carbs diets) do shift blood pH towards acidaemia, and might be harmful when combined with other blood pH disorders.

Zachary Amaranth:
I've noticed that a lot of people end up with cholesterol through the roof and the like, too.

It happens, I would hazard a guess, due to fatty foods becoming a person's primary energy source, and fatty foods most often containing lots of cholesterol. Failing that, there's always excess liver production.

Zachary Amaranth:

However, what I'm doing is not dieting. It's actual lifestyle adjustment, as in I'm not going back. But the concept of "diet" is not a lazy or cheap one.

Let me rephrase. People who diet expecting lasting change are screwing themselves over. Diets(and especially these fad diets) are not meant for lasting change, that will only come with an actual lifestyle adjustment, as you did.

Marowit:

Darken12:
Actually, the Atkins diet is kinda dangerous, since it ironically mimics the effects of decompensated diabetes (ketoacidosis). If you're a healthy person, you can have a compensated ketoacidosis without any major ill effects, though combining that with excessive and intense exercise (which leads to lactoacidosis) might strain your body's bicarbonate buffer and hyperventilation capacities. Again, if you're a young, healthy person, it's probably nothing to worry about, but it has "disaster" written all over it if you have any underlying conditions.

Also it's a really awful way to lose weight in the long term, as all diets are. You're not supposed to diet to lose weight, you're supposed to change your whole lifestyle and nutrition. Any weight you lose dieting is going to come right back soon after you stop.

Don't confuse DKA with starvation Ketosis. Starvation ketosis is what you mimic with a low/no carb diet, you force your body to metabolize fatty acids rather than carbs, and not diabetic ketoACIDOSIS. Starvation ketosis is a state we, as a species, were in much more commonly than times of bountiful carbohydrates (as we are today). DKA is a severe form of ketosis as a result of your body being unable to take any sugar into it's cells (DM1), but it's actually the fluid/electrolyte imbalance during DKA, as a result of the severe metabolic acidosis, that kills you not metabolizing ketones as an energy source. The metabolic acidosis that occurs during DKA is orders of magnitude more severe than the acidosis that results from starvation ketosis.

As an aside, there are refractory epileptics that can lead rather normal lives once they've switched to a Ketogenic diet, and so it can be a godsend for some people.

Aside #2, the Mediterranean diet is actually brilliant for losing weight and keeping it off, but I'll agree with you that most diets are pretty terrible for long term weight change - the real problem isn't so much the diet as people not changing their food-routines.

As a keto dieter, I was going to post in this thread with my own experiences and information, but I think you've pretty much nailed all of the points I was going to post here.

Been keto'ing since January and I'm down 40 lbs. It's a diet change I can hold with pride for the rest of my life, and I'm never looking back.

I know it's controversial, and I'm used to having to defend myself when I bring up that I am eating less than 20g of carbs a day, but keto has and continues to do wonders for me and I am grateful for that. It's changed my life and I feel great, more so than I have in quite some time.

Oh gawd, I feel a TL:DR rant coming on. Uuungh,....gah!]

In terms of losing body weight, I can say from viewing two people I know go on it that it actually does work. One of them in my household right now lost around 95 pounds in the span of 6 months, which I hear is dangerous to lose less than that amount in such a short time frame. But it worked for him and he avoided a hospital visit so that's good. this was around 06 though so I don't know what changes this Atkins diet has made.

Zachary Amaranth:

Yan007:
why would mother nature make us crave things that would kill us (meat, fat...)?

Considering we also crave sugar, that's a poor argument.

The problem with any of the above is that we eat too much, not that we eat them.

Actually it's not a poor argument. Meat and natural fats are good for you. Sugar too, but only when it comes from a natural source. Try to find a source of sugar in nature that does not contain fibers for example.

Just to make it clearer, you might crave sugar, but nature made it so it's virtually impossible to take too much sugar from natural sources.

And for those wondering, this is what I eat 95% of the time (5% is when I eat out):

-Plain chicken breasts, steaks, ribs, bacon..
-Milk(2%, skimmed, depends on goal), butter...
-Peanut butter, olive oil
-Plain oatmeal
-Plain brown rice
-Protein powder+creatine.

My bench went from 60 pounds to 180 in a year and I'll hit 225 pounds (122kg) by the end of this year, if not sooner. It's not my first year training, but had to stop for about 3 years due to a big accident that took a long time to recover from.

Darken12:

It happens, I would hazard a guess, due to fatty foods becoming a person's primary energy source, and fatty foods most often containing lots of cholesterol. Failing that, there's always excess liver production.

This is what I'd expect from a diet that markets itself basically as consequence-free eating, anyway.

Yan007:

Actually it's not a poor argument. Meat and natural fats are good for you. Sugar too, but only when it comes from a natural source. Try to find a source of sugar in nature that does not contain fibers for example.

It was a poor argument. You've just changed the argument to try and sound more moderate. This is especially ridiculous online when one can simply follow your argument back up the page.

Revisionism bad.

Zachary Amaranth:

Darken12:

It happens, I would hazard a guess, due to fatty foods becoming a person's primary energy source, and fatty foods most often containing lots of cholesterol. Failing that, there's always excess liver production.

This is what I'd expect from a diet that markets itself basically as consequence-free eating, anyway.

Yan007:

Actually it's not a poor argument. Meat and natural fats are good for you. Sugar too, but only when it comes from a natural source. Try to find a source of sugar in nature that does not contain fibers for example.

It was a poor argument. You've just changed the argument to try and sound more moderate. This is especially ridiculous online when one can simply follow your argument back up the page.

Revisionism bad.

About the cholesterol part: dietary cholesterol does not raise the ratio of bad cholesterol in your blood. Eating lots of carbs will increase your ratio of bad cholesterol.

Maybe my argument was poorly worded so you had a problem understanding the obvious, but I still stand by it. Besides working, bodybuilding is the next most important thing I do and food is the most important part of bodybuilding. The training is relatively easy, but eating the right meals 5 to 8 times a day takes much more dedication. I get blood tests done every 3-4 months or so just to be sure and my numbers have never been so good. Yes, my cholesterol is high, but that is a good thing because my good cholesterol far outweights the bad one. It's the ratio that matters most.

Eh, all diets (low carb, low fat, low sugar, whatever) come back into fashion eventually - the low-carb ones have been around since what, the 1950s? Every decade they get a new push.

Yan007:
As a bodybuilder, I have a high protein low carbs diet and just take in enough carbs to fuel my needs when I train. Carbs are mostly bad for you in the amount people eat nowadays. Think of it from an evolutionary standpoint: why would mother nature make us crave things that would kill us (meat, fat...)? Carbs are extremely recent in the whole of human history and our ancestors were pretty big before they settled down and started farming.

As a runner, I eat a fairly high carb diet - I've actually tried higher % protein eating, and it made it almost impossible for me to eat enough calories to not lose weight. Weight loss might be great for an overweight person on a diet, but it's not what you want when you're already fairly small and need to fuel endurance activities. Different diets just work differently for different people. That's the main problem with fad diets - it's not that they (necessarily) don't work, it's that there's no one diet that works for every body/lifestyle.

And FTR, carbs are not new - vegetables and fruit have always been a big part of a human's diet.

Sure carbs are not new, but natural produce like vegetables pack a lot less calories than bread and pasta do. Most BBers I know don't even count vegetables as carbs. They eat as much vegs as they can to fill their stomach and feel full.

Yan007:
Sure carbs are not new, but natural produce like vegetables pack a lot less calories than bread and pasta do. Most BBers I know don't even count vegetables as carbs. They eat as much vegs as they can to fill their stomach and feel full.

Sure, there are a wide variety of eating plans that do the "fill up on veggies" thing (paleo folks do it, calorie counters do it, and so on). But I'm more than a little baffled at not counting vegetables as carbs -they are. If your focus is calorie density, fair enough (obviously a bodybuilder and a runner are going to have different dietary needs), but that hardly makes a vegetable or fruit any less of a vehicle for carbohydrates, or makes carbohydrates an invention of modern agriculture.

Well, as a bodybuilder I see them in one way, you probably see them in another.

As far as I'm concerned, I avoid carbs I don't need (that are not vegetables), especially while cutting, because without fibers I'll get an insulin spike from them, which is what I'm trying to avoid.

Atkins diet huh?

We had that in the newspaper here in Sweden a while back saying that it causes cancer and all sorts of bad conditions. Can't think of why anyone would bother any extreme diets at all.

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