Two explosions reported at the Boston Marathon (Updated: 6:50PM EST April 16 2013)

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xDarc:
There are a few things that make me think this will come out as a domestic attack from a homegrown militant patriot group. Today is the deadline to file your taxes. We are also hearing that there was some observance of events in Newtown at the start of today's event. Most reporting states at least 3 dead with dozens injured.

Adam Jensen:
I have friends and some relatives in Boston. I hope they're all OK. Physically I mean. No way they're getting out of this one without some emotional scars.

It was probably a work of domestic terrorists. The bombs were too ineffective to be anything other than homemade. I hope they catch the bastards soon and execute them in public.

Owyn_Merrilin:

Kopikatsu:

Owyn_Merrilin:

It only seems that way because 9/11 was so massive. This is more in line with the scale of terrorist attacks throughout history.

Edit: CNN is also officially calling it a terrorist attack, although they're not speculating on who did it. Other sources are speculating that it might be home grown and right wing, but it's still just speculation at this point. Nobody has claimed responsibility.

Suggesting that it was a home grown right winger made me think of an interesting scenario.

Reportedly, the explosions happened near where some of the parents of the Newtown shooting's victims were. Wouldn't it be strange if a very anti-gun control proponent tried to 'finish the job' using explosives, as a means of protesting the (many) proposed new gun control regulations by showing that explosives made with commonplace materials can be just as bad (or worse) than a firearm?

It's more than just that. Today is tax day in the US, and apparently in Boston it's also Patriot day, a local holiday. The race was dedicated to the Sandy hook victims, and had parents of the survivors victims in attendance. If you know anything about our fringe right wingers (and I mean way out there, not your garden variety republicans), that sounds like the kind of symbolism they'd go for.

Edit: scratched out typo. Not sure if their kids got out alive, all I know is it's Sandy Hook parents. Some of them were also running in the marathon, I heard an interview with one of them on the radio on the way in to work this morning.

I love how everyone on this site says, "Oh, yeah, it's totally a white right-winger. They're known for using bombs in public places in this country. Taxes and guns have totally been the motivation for attacks like this one in the past, and there is no other group who has shown this pattern."

Tomorrow is Israeli Independence Day.

Are you guys serious?

Lionsfan:

chadachada123:
Probably just some sociopath looking to kill people.

I see absolutely no reason yet to suspect it to be terrorism related.

(Remember, of course, that terrorism requires the intent to instill fear in others). I expect it to end up being some jaded guy that finally realized that you can kill far more people with explosives than with firearms, if you're competent.

Edit: Oh, yeah, it's tax day. This would certainly be the day for someone that has nowhere left to turn to pull something like this off.

How was this not an attempt to instill fear in others? Terrorism doesn't necessarily have to be for any particular political cause, but this is basically textbook terrorism

How WOULD it be? Wanting to kill people is not necessarily tied to wanting to cause fear. An example would be the vast majority of mass (esp. school) shootings, which had no goal other than "get known/let others know my pain" and/or "just kill as many as possible/kill the people that caused me to do this."

As Owyn_Merrilin pointed out, just wanting to kill people without intent to coerce* is not terrorism. I further argue that there's no evidence (yet) that the dude wanted to make a statement with this act, with no reason (yet) to assume so, but that's a lesser point.

*Ill-defined, I know, but I lack a vocabulary wide enough to explain what I mean here.

PhiMed:
I love how everyone on this site says, "Oh, yeah, it's totally a white right-winger. They're known for using bombs in public places in this country. Taxes and guns have totally been the motivation for attacks like this one in the past, and there is no other group who has shown this pattern."

Tomorrow is Israeli Independence Day.

Are you guys serious?

Eh, if the right wing gets to blame left-wingers (they are/will and you know it) I don't see why it can't be the other way around.

Though this website is a little too quick to say it was a pro-white/Tea Party/2nd Amendment person.

Xpwn3ntial:

PhiMed:
I love how everyone on this site says, "Oh, yeah, it's totally a white right-winger. They're known for using bombs in public places in this country. Taxes and guns have totally been the motivation for attacks like this one in the past, and there is no other group who has shown this pattern."

Tomorrow is Israeli Independence Day.

Are you guys serious?

Eh, if the right wing gets to blame left-wingers (they are/will and you know it) I don't see why it can't be the other way around.

Though this website is a little too quick to say it was a pro-white/Tea Party/2nd Amendment person.

I don't know if I'd call Radical Islamic Fundamentalists "left wing". They're against pretty much everything the American left wing is for.

I think the people on this website just want to prove that they're good non-racist global citizens by making a nonsense connection to a group that has yet to display this type of behavior.

In the process, they'll ignore the anniversary of the most contentious event in modern Middle Eastern history. Also, they'll ignore group that's still super pissed off about it, because suggesting this group might be engaging in a behavior that they've been guilty of, all around the world, especially on or around important dates on their calendar, for a hundred years, especially over the last 13, would be "racist", because apparently "radical islamic fundamentalist" is an ethnic group.

Xpwn3ntial:

PhiMed:
I love how everyone on this site says, "Oh, yeah, it's totally a white right-winger. They're known for using bombs in public places in this country. Taxes and guns have totally been the motivation for attacks like this one in the past, and there is no other group who has shown this pattern."

Tomorrow is Israeli Independence Day.

Are you guys serious?

Eh, if the right wing gets to blame left-wingers (they are/will and you know it) I don't see why it can't be the other way around.

Though this website is a little too quick to say it was a pro-white/Tea Party/2nd Amendment person.

Well looking at the homegrown terrorists the US has had in the past, that is what they tend to be. In other places at other times communist terrorists could easily have been behind it, but fact is that in the US today you are more likely to see a McVeigh than a Guevara.

Likewise had it been an Al-Qaeda cell, the bombs would probably have caused a lot more damage.

I hope the wounded make it out alright and that they catch those responsible.

Commissar Sae:

Xpwn3ntial:

PhiMed:
I love how everyone on this site says, "Oh, yeah, it's totally a white right-winger. They're known for using bombs in public places in this country. Taxes and guns have totally been the motivation for attacks like this one in the past, and there is no other group who has shown this pattern."

Tomorrow is Israeli Independence Day.

Are you guys serious?

Eh, if the right wing gets to blame left-wingers (they are/will and you know it) I don't see why it can't be the other way around.

Though this website is a little too quick to say it was a pro-white/Tea Party/2nd Amendment person.

Well looking at the homegrown terrorists the US has had in the past, that is what they tend to be. In other places at other times communist terrorists could easily have been behind it, but fact is that in the US today you are more likely to see a McVeigh than a Guevara.

Likewise had it been an Al-Qaeda cell, the bombs would probably have caused a lot more damage.

I hope the wounded make it out alright and that they catch those responsible.

Most of the foiled plots by Islamic terrorists (there are groups other than Al-Qaeda, you know) in recent years have been relatively small time. The Time Square bomber, the underwear bomber, etc. They're not nearly as good at their goals as you seem to think they are, especially now. They're fragmented, a shadow of what they used to be.

I don't think you can make a judgement on motivation based on scale. Besides, there were at least two other bombs which didn't go off. How much more damage would have been done if they hadn't been found?

I think that the tax day connection and the Sandy Hook connection are shaky at best. The target isn't right. Whoever did this wanted visibility.

Right Wing terror cells strike because they think they're going to change something: Start a race war, cause the collapse of a branch of government, kill someone they see as key to a particular piece of legislation. None of those things fit here.

Islamic Fundamentalist groups strike because they're trying to say something, to us and to the Islamic world: public places, lots of cameras, signs of decadence (what's more decadent than people running over twenty miles just for the hell of it?), on or around major anniversaries and milestones on the Islamic Calendar. All of those things fit here.

While this is tragic, I'm going to go ahead and hold off on listening to anyone's explanation for a good week. Right now, everyone is thinking "terrorist" either domestic or foreign or whatever. I don't know, I'm not claim to know, I'm just going to claim that everyone always overreacts and gets things stupid wrong. We love to hate groups in this country, so we're looking to blame whatever groups we can. For instance, I bet most people on this very thread have already assumed it's more than one person. We don't know, but we're looking to point fingers.

It's really cold of me, but I think the most important thing to figure out is the motivation. Once I know what the motivation was, maybe even understand it, then I can accept anything. So I always look for the reasons and that's all I'd like to know: Why. Why bomb the spectators of a volunteer marathon? From what I understand of violence, this seems pointless, but now I'm just assuming. Maybe there was a reason, hate-filled evil reason, but maybe there was a point.

---

Edit: Holy hell! What the hell is wrong with all of you? Why are all of you saying it's either one or the other of a group of people: dirty brown people or dirty white people? What the fuck? That kind of thinking makes me hate the human race. This kind of ignorant, backwards, political straw-manning bullshit has to fucking STOP!

This entire thread, meant to inform, has turned into something extremely disgusting and I am ENTIRELY disappointed with the lot of you.

Sorry to anyone who didn't post any of this hate-mongering on the fourth page, but it's down-right disgusting back here.

Pebkio:
While this is tragic, I'm going to go ahead and hold off on listening to anyone's explanation for a good week. Right now, everyone is thinking "terrorist" either domestic or foreign or whatever. I don't know, I'm not claim to know, I'm just going to claim that everyone always overreacts and gets things stupid wrong. We love to hate groups in this country, so we're looking to blame whatever groups we can. For instance, I bet most people on this very thread have already assumed it's more than one person. We don't know, but we're looking to point fingers.

It's really cold of me, but I think the most important thing to figure out is the motivation. Once I know what the motivation was, maybe even understand it, then I can accept anything. So I always look for the reasons and that's all I'd like to know: Why. Why bomb the spectators of a volunteer marathon? From what I understand of violence, this seems pointless, but now I'm just assuming. Maybe there was a reason, hate-filled evil reason, but maybe there was a point.

---

Edit: Holy hell! What the hell is wrong with all of you? Why are all of you saying it's either one or the other of a group of people: dirty brown people or dirty white people? What the fuck? That kind of thinking makes me hate the human race. This kind of ignorant, backwards, political straw-manning bullshit has to fucking STOP!

This entire thread, meant to inform, has turned into something extremely disgusting and I am ENTIRELY disappointed with the lot of you.

Sorry to anyone who didn't post any of this hate-mongering on the fourth page, but it's down-right disgusting back here.

It's just people trying to reconcile grotesque tragedy, dude.

PhiMed:

I think the people on this website just want to prove that they're good non-racist global citizens by making a nonsense connection to a group that has yet to display this type of behavior.

In the process, they'll ignore the anniversary of the most contentious event in modern Middle Eastern history.

When I turned on my TV on 9/11/01 before my shift at work, I said the sunuvabitch finally did it, referring of course to Osama bin Laden. It wasn't because of racism, it was because the media was conditioning those who paid attention to have this guy on their radar. Back then no one paid attention. My 60 year old neighbor thought the soviets were firing missiles at us and I had to remind her the cold war had been over for some time. But

I paid attention, checked the news on reuters over the web every day. You'd hear all kinds of crazy things, like Al Qaeda growing marijuana fields in Sudan using kidnapped children traded for AK-47s and chickens to fund their operation. You'd hear of bin Laden calling Saddam Hussein an infidel after Hussein denied him refuge back in 98.

Then after 9/11. everything I had been reading for years was cut down, edited, packaged by editors at a TV news room and fed to you the way you were meant to see it. Two days later they found the passports of the hijackers in the rubble which was essentially atomized, but the passports must have floated in the breeze and landed neatly on top of the pile... in something as conceivable as the Kennedy magic bullet theory. It was never questioned. bin Laden also came out denying involvement, something he had never done.

And yet it was used as a pretext to invade Iraq through vague correlation. I remember thinking as the events unfolded that this was playing out all wrong, that this was no way to win a war on terror, this was something else.

The same pattern played out after Waco, Americans were upset about it and then we saw the OKC bombing and any sympathies we had for Waco quickly vanished. First you are conditioned, then an attack happens, then they take the initiative and just roll right over the American people to do whatever they want. I've literally watched this play out a few times in my lifetime so far.

So when they're having trouble taking away our 2nd amendment rights, which is their ultimate goal, and all of a sudden there is a bombing in Boston using black powder and ball bearings, on Patriot's day, you'll have to forgive me if I expect them to blame right wing extremists so they can achieve their objectives. Then they'll make the connections to the Liberty movement, the NRA, Alex Jones, whoever opposes them will somehow be mentioned in the same breath as the bomber.

That's what I see happening. It's also been too damn quiet. No statement. No one has claimed responsibility. I understand they keep mentioning a Saudi national who was wounded, and tomorrow may be a big day for Israel, but from where I sit it doesn't point to a middle east connection at all. We'll just have to wait and see.

I don't much care for how this was covered on TV where I live, 5 hours of non-stop "special report" where we weren't even getting updated and were just rambling and repeating it. It's one thing to inform us of a crushing event, it's another thing to terrify the masses by hogging more air time than (putsomethingcleverhere) to only show the explosions in slow mo for the thousandth time...

Tragic event, but still not handled the best way.
Hope we can find out who did it though, and such.

Pebkio:

This entire thread, meant to inform, has turned into something extremely disgusting and I am ENTIRELY disappointed with the lot of you.

I do not understand what the problem is with people speculating on what is going on, that is natural discussion. If it upsets you I'm sorry.

I just found out about the bombing ten minutes ago. I'm with Pebkio: guessing which group or trying to find explanations in this mess...

...it's just too damn SOON!

What would make everything clear is identifying a clear motivation for the bombing. I can't say anything for certain (after all I'm just another scared and confused guy on the internet), all I can do is offer my own guesswork. (not that it actualy means anything)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems telling that there's been no official release of any kind of statement or manifesto by the bomber(s).

Lately we've been conditioned to expect that any group acting with politcal motivation will send a statement to Police and/or the media within hours of an act of terrorism. Either the media is keeping silent or there isn't one. I haven't even heard word of supposed claims of responsibility. An "International" event like the Boston marathon gaurantees international media attention and a broad "audience" for any kind of "message".

So why isn't this psycho posing for the spotlight?

Hell, I've been scrutinizing the footage and images I've been able to find, and the first bomb seems to have gone off somewhere between the flags of South Africa and Taiwan. The flags seemed to be lined up alphabetically, so if there WERE political motivations about the U.S. or Israel you'd think the bomber would have placed it more directly behind one of those two flags.

The bombs have been described as "extremely crude" and the damage "the kind of injuries you'd see on soldiers returning from Iraq". Yet the targets were clearly the spectators and the bombs were designed to maim rather than kill.

Isn't this the kind of thing we've seen at one time or another on basically every cop show since the eighties? It even feels eerily like a cocked-up version of the Season 3 finale of "Criminal Minds", except that in this case, the second bomb seemed improperly placed to take out first-responders or an evacuating crowd. I suspect the how and why of the second bomb will tell us more about the bomber than the first.

Going by those same crime shows, this feels like the hallmarks of an amateur at work and something about this suggests remote detonation of at least the second bomb. Whether there were one bomber or several is unknowable at this point.

So why would an amateur bomber target a non-specific group of people like this? The only motivation I can think of is simply to inflict injuries on convenient targets. Seems like a stupid way to jump-start the War Amps program to me. Crippling a bunch of people in one city isn't going to do any more for wounded veterans than Columbine and Aurora have for gun control.

That makes the bomber either a sadist who gets off on his handiwork or someone seeking "generic" revenge against society. If this were TV, the bomber would most likely be "home-grown", young (late teens early twenties), probably male and either be ex-military, have ex-military relatives, or just have internet access. His lack of experience suggests the latter. If indeed at least one bomb was set off remotely, that would mean the bomber is able to blend in sufficiently to have been at the scene of the bombings and still escape. Even though at least one of the undetonated devies were found in a hotel, I'd go so far as to guess the bomber lives in Boston and expects to see the results of his handiwork for the rest of his life. That also means he'll be folowing media coverage of the bombings. The high degree of planning indicates intelligence but the nature of the plan suggests the same kind of TV-logic I'm using right now. That kind of logic usually indicates immaturity.

Lastly, I agree with the TV assessment that all bombers are cowards. Otherwise they would strike more directly and be more forthcoming with their "message" (if any). This is especially likely given the lack of an imediate public statement. Such a high profile attack is more likely a one-time act rather than the beginning of a "campaign of terror". The bomber is almost certainly hiding out trying not to arouse suspicion.

...but that said, if life immitates art as art immitates life, the bomber will likely have at least one more device at his disposal in case of "emergencies".

Of course this is all speculation in the face of terror on my part, so expect most of this to be wrong.

Just glad the death toll is relatively low at the moment. Sympathies to those, and the families of those, who have been hurt, injured or killed.

I suppose it would be both frustrating and ironic if the guy that's supposed to make a statement about this got caught in his own bomb, and is now lying somewhere wounded and unconcious.
"woops."

My sympathies to anyone involved, and to Boston itself for having such a travesty within it's city streets.
Just heard this on the morning news and that is not nice waking up to. -.-

Imagine that this is everyday life for people in some places around the world :/

No, I'm not saying "fuck you" to the victims.

I was driving to work this morning (Queensland time) when the news broke on the radio. Terrible business. My thoughts and prayers go to those affected.

Family members were in a bar only three blocks away yet they did not hear anything. One of them, my older brother, tried to get to the scene to help out but he was turned away by police and was separated from my other relative for several hours. They immediately high-tailed it back to Canada, I will not know if they are back in Canada/able to cross the border for several more hours.

Fuck me.

Well it seems that the person of intrest being held in the bombing is a Saudi national. Looks like it's going to be another muslim terror act.

Xanex:
Well it seems that the person of intrest being held in the bombing is a Saudi national. Looks like it's going to be another muslim terror act.

Or someone spotted someone that looked foreign and grabbed him. Would you want to be a Saudi national in Boston at this time?

Sure, maybe he was guilty, but it's jumping the gun, even if it's certain people will blame muslims to some extent.

Just hoping all Escapists and their loved ones are alright. Days like yesterday make me so bone-tired that I just could sleep for days.

PhiMed:

Xpwn3ntial:

PhiMed:
I love how everyone on this site says, "Oh, yeah, it's totally a white right-winger. They're known for using bombs in public places in this country. Taxes and guns have totally been the motivation for attacks like this one in the past, and there is no other group who has shown this pattern."

Tomorrow is Israeli Independence Day.

Are you guys serious?

Eh, if the right wing gets to blame left-wingers (they are/will and you know it) I don't see why it can't be the other way around.

Though this website is a little too quick to say it was a pro-white/Tea Party/2nd Amendment person.

I don't know if I'd call Radical Islamic Fundamentalists "left wing". They're against pretty much everything the American left wing is for.

I think the people on this website just want to prove that they're good non-racist global citizens by making a nonsense connection to a group that has yet to display this type of behavior.

In the process, they'll ignore the anniversary of the most contentious event in modern Middle Eastern history. Also, they'll ignore group that's still super pissed off about it, because suggesting this group might be engaging in a behavior that they've been guilty of, all around the world, especially on or around important dates on their calendar, for a hundred years, especially over the last 13, would be "racist", because apparently "radical islamic fundamentalist" is an ethnic group.

Exactly. Nothing about this fits any history or rationale for domestic right-wing terrorism. Terrorism is all about disrupting the status quo through fear, and though this target doesn't fit the more recent mold of hitting high-density targets like transit for maximum body count, this sure as hell looks like the Middle Eastern / Eastern European style of terrorism of a few decades ago- rather than maximum body count and disruption of daily living, they tended to go towards big statements with mass media attention (this in days prior to the 24 hour news cycle), big hostage situations, hitting events with national/international media attention already there, y'know, big signature stuff.

"Right-wing" / Anti-government / Anarchist groups have a different motivation. They want to take the fight to the oppressors and wake up the population and show them that they can stand up too, by targeting government buildings/events. It would be completely against their goals to strike "civilians" since rather than scaring them into changing their patterns, they're attempting to rally them.

So, lone-wolf terrorist then? That would be corroborated by the lack of intelligence (not sure how many are aware, but the US has been stopping several of these kind of things a year for the last decade, intelligence/LE have been on the ball domestically) and lack of chatter in usual channels following the attack. The problem is, this attack seems to be decently sophisticated, and just in my opinion, unlikely that it was a single "crazy guy" trying to make a statement.

So my opinion, based on the facts we have so far, historical patterns and motivations- Radical middle eastern cell that has been dormant within the United States, or at least North America, for a long period of time. The attack fits the pattern of a slightly older style of terrorism, and like the cell that was recently busted in Texas (attempting to use Mexican cartel for assassinations of Saudi diplomats in DC) they could've been in the US for a very long time (supposed leader of that cell was an Iranian American business owner from Corpus Christi, TX that had been in the US for over a decade) without direct communications or oversight by an overseas organization, hence the lack of prior intelligence.

Anyway... I guess we'll see.

EDIT: New reports say the bombs, or at least one of them, were likely pressure cookers filled with explosives and shrapnel, carried in nylon bags. This type of bomb fits the profile of one of the explosives in the attempted Times Square, and more importantly, fits the design of the bombs used in the 2006 transit attacks in Mumbai, India.

The type of the explosives have yet to be identified, or at least released to the public, but has been mentioned that it was a low-explosive, thank God, meaning the blasts (as evident in the video and aftermath pictures showing surrounding buildings) weren't sufficient to produce a lethal pressure wave, which tends to cause damage a fair distance away (think- windows knocked out blocks away, etc.), all the damage done to people was by burns and shrapnel in the immediate vicinity.

Xanex:
Well it seems that the person of intrest being held in the bombing is a Saudi national. Looks like it's going to be another muslim terror act.

Sigh.

Thinking like this is why we can't have nice things.

Ever.

edit- not just talking about the quote btw.

thaluikhain:

Xanex:
Well it seems that the person of intrest being held in the bombing is a Saudi national. Looks like it's going to be another muslim terror act.

Or someone spotted someone that looked foreign and grabbed him. Would you want to be a Saudi national in Boston at this time?

Sure, maybe he was guilty, but it's jumping the gun, even if it's certain people will blame muslims to some extent.

Far more likely they grabbed him to protect him. After a bombing in America the least safe people are people who look 'Muslim'. Last thing anyone needs is some would be vigilante attacking the tur'rists

R.Nevermore:

thaluikhain:

Xanex:
Well it seems that the person of intrest being held in the bombing is a Saudi national. Looks like it's going to be another muslim terror act.

Or someone spotted someone that looked foreign and grabbed him. Would you want to be a Saudi national in Boston at this time?

Sure, maybe he was guilty, but it's jumping the gun, even if it's certain people will blame muslims to some extent.

Far more likely they grabbed him to protect him. After a bombing in America the least safe people are people who look 'Muslim'. Last thing anyone needs is some would be vigilante attacking the tur'rists

As I understand it, though that's if you believe the news, which isn't wise, he was grabbed by randoms, and then the police got involved.

Xanex:
Well it seems that the person of intrest being held in the bombing is a Saudi national. Looks like it's going to be another muslim terror act.

This part of the story has already been discredited. Nothing but unsubstantiated racebaiting by the New York Post.

Apparently this is the first case of terrorism in the US since 911.

According to people who think attacking MLK parades, Sikh temples or abortion clinics doesn't count, presumably.

My deepest sympathies to those involved, and to those wounded I wish for a speedy recovery.

thaluikhain:
Apparently this is the first case of terrorism in the US since 911.

According to people who think attacking MLK parades, Sikh temples or abortion clinics doesn't count, presumably.

Well hell, the murderers in the abortion clinics were just getting what they deserved.

^Sarcasm font in full effect here. Point being, it's only terrorism if you disagree with it, and a disturbing percentage of Americans kind of silently cheer on that sort of terror.

xDarc:

When I turned on my TV on 9/11/01 before my shift at work, I said the sunuvabitch finally did it, referring of course to Osama bin Laden. It wasn't because of racism, it was because the media was conditioning those who paid attention to have this guy on their radar. Back then no one paid attention. My 60 year old neighbor thought the soviets were firing missiles at us and I had to remind her the cold war had been over for some time. But

I paid attention, checked the news on reuters over the web every day. You'd hear all kinds of crazy things, like Al Qaeda growing marijuana fields in Sudan using kidnapped children traded for AK-47s and chickens to fund their operation. You'd hear of bin Laden calling Saddam Hussein an infidel after Hussein denied him refuge back in 98.

Then after 9/11. everything I had been reading for years was cut down, edited, packaged by editors at a TV news room and fed to you the way you were meant to see it. Two days later they found the passports of the hijackers in the rubble which was essentially atomized, but the passports must have floated in the breeze and landed neatly on top of the pile... in something as conceivable as the Kennedy magic bullet theory. It was never questioned. bin Laden also came out denying involvement, something he had never done.

And yet it was used as a pretext to invade Iraq through vague correlation. I remember thinking as the events unfolded that this was playing out all wrong, that this was no way to win a war on terror, this was something else.

The same pattern played out after Waco, Americans were upset about it and then we saw the OKC bombing and any sympathies we had for Waco quickly vanished. First you are conditioned, then an attack happens, then they take the initiative and just roll right over the American people to do whatever they want. I've literally watched this play out a few times in my lifetime so far.

So when they're having trouble taking away our 2nd amendment rights, which is their ultimate goal, and all of a sudden there is a bombing in Boston using black powder and ball bearings, on Patriot's day, you'll have to forgive me if I expect them to blame right wing extremists so they can achieve their objectives. Then they'll make the connections to the Liberty movement, the NRA, Alex Jones, whoever opposes them will somehow be mentioned in the same breath as the bomber.

That's what I see happening. It's also been too damn quiet. No statement. No one has claimed responsibility. I understand they keep mentioning a Saudi national who was wounded, and tomorrow may be a big day for Israel, but from where I sit it doesn't point to a middle east connection at all. We'll just have to wait and see.

I'm sorry, but who are they?

No really, the government? Would the government be so corrupt and insane that they'd bomb their own people in order to change what, amendments about gun rights? You do know that most people who doesn't like the right to carry a gun in public usually are, well, not pacifists but a lot less warhungry for the most part. I'm sorry, but without any sort of sources what so ever on basically anything in your whole post, I'm quite close to actually just shrug at it and disregard it to the pile of (in lack of kinder words) cospiratorial weirdness.

That's a very intresting thing I've noticed with a lot of Americans (obviously not all Americans, in case I have to make that clear) you seem to have an unhealthy fear of your own government. Believing they're committing acts of terrorism in order to change the ammendment, lying about most things, killing their own civilians and so forth. I don't really get it.

I'm sorry if I came off as rude, but I do find it really weird to speculate that this is all one bit conspiracy from "them" to change the precious second ammendment (that was written about 240 years ago mind you, why is it still relevant? That's another thing I wonder.).

Shit...
This is bad
At least 3 dead and several (over 20) injured
Hope no other bombs go off

My consolations to anyone involved and their families!
Hope the injured ones will be fine.

SecretNegative:

xDarc:

When I turned on my TV on 9/11/01 before my shift at work, I said the sunuvabitch finally did it, referring of course to Osama bin Laden. It wasn't because of racism, it was because the media was conditioning those who paid attention to have this guy on their radar. Back then no one paid attention. My 60 year old neighbor thought the soviets were firing missiles at us and I had to remind her the cold war had been over for some time. But

I paid attention, checked the news on reuters over the web every day. You'd hear all kinds of crazy things, like Al Qaeda growing marijuana fields in Sudan using kidnapped children traded for AK-47s and chickens to fund their operation. You'd hear of bin Laden calling Saddam Hussein an infidel after Hussein denied him refuge back in 98.

Then after 9/11. everything I had been reading for years was cut down, edited, packaged by editors at a TV news room and fed to you the way you were meant to see it. Two days later they found the passports of the hijackers in the rubble which was essentially atomized, but the passports must have floated in the breeze and landed neatly on top of the pile... in something as conceivable as the Kennedy magic bullet theory. It was never questioned. bin Laden also came out denying involvement, something he had never done.

And yet it was used as a pretext to invade Iraq through vague correlation. I remember thinking as the events unfolded that this was playing out all wrong, that this was no way to win a war on terror, this was something else.

The same pattern played out after Waco, Americans were upset about it and then we saw the OKC bombing and any sympathies we had for Waco quickly vanished. First you are conditioned, then an attack happens, then they take the initiative and just roll right over the American people to do whatever they want. I've literally watched this play out a few times in my lifetime so far.

So when they're having trouble taking away our 2nd amendment rights, which is their ultimate goal, and all of a sudden there is a bombing in Boston using black powder and ball bearings, on Patriot's day, you'll have to forgive me if I expect them to blame right wing extremists so they can achieve their objectives. Then they'll make the connections to the Liberty movement, the NRA, Alex Jones, whoever opposes them will somehow be mentioned in the same breath as the bomber.

That's what I see happening. It's also been too damn quiet. No statement. No one has claimed responsibility. I understand they keep mentioning a Saudi national who was wounded, and tomorrow may be a big day for Israel, but from where I sit it doesn't point to a middle east connection at all. We'll just have to wait and see.

I'm sorry, but who are they?

No really, the government? Would the government be so corrupt and insane that they'd bomb their own people in order to change what, amendments about gun rights? You do know that most people who doesn't like the right to carry a gun in public usually are, well, not pacifists but a lot less warhungry for the most part. I'm sorry, but without any sort of sources what so ever on basically anything in your whole post, I'm quite close to actually just shrug at it and disregard it to the pile of (in lack of kinder words) cospiratorial weirdness.

That's a very intresting thing I've noticed with a lot of Americans (obviously not all Americans, in case I have to make that clear) you seem to have an unhealthy fear of your own government. Believing they're committing acts of terrorism in order to change the ammendment, lying about most things, killing their own civilians and so forth. I don't really get it.

I'm sorry if I came off as rude, but I do find it really weird to speculate that this is all one bit conspiracy from "them" to change the precious second ammendment (that was written about 240 years ago mind you, why is it still relevant? That's another thing I wonder.).

You have to understand something about the American psyche. We are a nation born of a violent revolution against an (arguably not all that) oppressive government, and we glorify the people involved in that revolution. The whole notion of "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" rings very, very true over here, because which one our founding fathers were depends on whether you ask them, or the British. You raise enough generations of people on stories about why you can't trust your government and how great it is to rebel against it once it gets oppressive, and you get a lot of paranoia about the government. A certain level of which is probably healthy, but a lot of people take it to the extreme.

Owyn_Merrilin:

You have to understand something about the American psyche. We are a nation born of a violent revolution against an (arguably not all that) oppressive government, and we glorify the people involved in that revolution. The whole notion of "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" rings very, very true over here, because which one our founding fathers were depends on whether you ask them, or the British. You raise enough generations of people on stories about why you can't trust your government and how great it is to rebel against it once it gets oppressive, and you get a lot of paranoia about the government. A certain level of which is probably healthy, but a lot of people take it to the extreme.

That...sounds very reasonable.

Sorry to the mods if I derailed this thread a little bit.

SecretNegative:
That's a very intresting thing I've noticed with a lot of Americans (obviously not all Americans, in case I have to make that clear) you seem to have an unhealthy fear of your own government. Believing they're committing acts of terrorism in order to change the ammendment, lying about most things, killing their own civilians and so forth. I don't really get it.

I'd slightly modify that, there seems to be a misplaced fear. That is, people are afraid of the wrong things. IMHO, it's not a matter of the US government/whomever actively being able to people as a rule, it's that the system fails large numbers of people and the people it doesn't fail have little incentive to care.

The Occupy movement comes to mind. While I don't totally disagree with them, it seems a bit selfish to suddenly care about the failures of the system when it affects you. Poverty is bad even before you personally became poor. While it's fair enough to be unhappy, persuading other people to care about things you didn't care about until they happened to you without acknowledging it...yeah.

Likewise, when the police got rough if was a surprise and a shock, because police are "supposed" to do that to people that aren't them.

SecretNegative:
I'm sorry, but who are they?

"They" are the same group of people who destroyed evidence, killed witnesses, changed security, and hand picked the people on the Warren Commission on the Kennedy assassination. "They" are the military industrial complex that people like Dwight Eisenhower warned about. A recent example would include people like Dick Cheney and defense contractors like Haliburton.

Most Americans believe in a conspiracy to kill Kennedy, and pretty much every president we've had since has been a puppet- yet I've noticed younger people these days either don't know/care or just figure it was so long ago all that corruption must have just died out and sorted itself on it's own... it ain't so.

So Landover Baptist Church have gone and done this: http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=89233

I know that it's a joke, but I was wondering what people's thoughts are about it, especially how soon it has been since the event itself.

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