Why is 'white knighting' seen as such a bad thing?

 Pages 1 2 3 4 NEXT
 

This isn't to say that I always agree with them, but why has the idea of sticking up for you ideals and values seen as a bad thing by a lot of people these days (*cough*4chan*cough*)? As I've said, I don't always agree with some of these people, but I respect them for standing with their morals. It actually kind of disturbs me that so many people think of having morals and basic human empathy as a bad thing.

What you've mentioned is something different from white knighting on the internet.

White Knighting on the internet doesn't mean what you think it does apparently.

I think its more of a thing on 4Chan. People here dont really go out and try to mess with people (Atleast they dont make it obvious anyways).

Anyhoo white-knighting isn't all bad if you're not just doing it to feel better. There is a distinct difference between ruining somebody's life who dragged a living dog behind his car and stopping somebody from calling a girl on Facebook fat.

what you're thinking of is not white knighting.

actual white knighting, I think its the either trollness or ignorance that bothers people in it. Id say its not that bad but I cant necessarily think of a time where it was a good thing.

I would guess people tend to think, "You're only standing up for her because she's a woman and she might give you access to her secret garden for doing it" which is probably true in some cases.

It's pessimistic to judge people like that, but that's what some folks do. Unless the guy just stinks of desperation and neediness I like to think they're standing up for a woman because she is a human, not because she's female.

It's a problem because even now there's still men who will attack girls online for the crime of being a lady and it's good to know there's guys on the internet who thinks this behaviour is pants.

If someone said to me on here one of the many completely original and hilarious sexist insults (GET BACK 2 THE KITCHEN LOLOLOL!!11! WHY ARE YOU POSTING HERE AND NOT MAKING ME A SAMMICH OLLLLLOLOLLLL, YOU SHOULD BE SUCKING MY DIICK ROFL why do I still sob when I masturbate... ASIF YOUR KITCHEN HAS AN XBOX ROFL) and other guys told him to shut up because he sounded like an absolute unfunny twat, I wouldn't label them as a white knight. I'd say they have a good moral code and aren't stuck in the 50s.
White knights always expect something from you when they come to your defense. Decent people don't. I would more than happily defend a man on here if he was being attacked unreasonably.

White knighting is the act of of a man coming to the defense of a woman or making excuses for a woman's actions simpl y because they are female. It is the internet's version of chivalry and reinforces the notion that women can do no wrong. Admittedly, though the term "white-knight" has been misused very much, to the point that any defense of a woman's actions-- be they troublesome or no-- has been associated with it.

That's all in my opinion however.

I think you're version of "white knight" is different than the one I'm used to. Standing up for what you believe in is fine but purposely being offended for someone (particularly females) because you think they can't defend themselves is in my book, a white knight.

Several reasons:
1. White nights are actually nice guy tm and think it will lead to pussy
2. They if they're not part of the group their opinion hold more weight. Of course women are feminist but I'm a male feminist so I'm supporting something outside my group I'm more caring.
3. They think who they're defending can't stand up for themselves.

Of course this isn't true for all but a few bad apples spoil the bunch. Not to mention on 4chan if you can be labeled something they'll hate you for it.

Froggy Slayer:
This isn't to say that I always agree with them, but why has the idea of sticking up for you ideals and values seen as a bad thing by a lot of people these days (*cough*4chan*cough*)? As I've said, I don't always agree with some of these people, but I respect them for standing with their morals. It actually kind of disturbs me that so many people think of having morals and basic human empathy as a bad thing.

You've confused what it is supposed to mean with how people who can't argue and want to dismiss their opponent use it.

Generally I see people use it as some kind of unfounded accusation of someone's motives because they don't like the position they're taking. Which of course says more about the accuser than anything.

It ought to mean someone who is expecting to get some kind of admiration or the like from those they are 'defending'.

Yes, I know about some of the alternate definitions, but I'm increasingly seeing it used for people who have any sort of idealism. People stepping on idealism is sort of a point of contention for me.

Froggy Slayer:
JOKER SNIP!

Seeing what you said there made me think of this:

image

Which, to be honest, most people DO want to become legends... or Batman, whichever seems less likely to harm them

FreedomofInformation:
What you've mentioned is something different from white knighting on the internet.

If I go by what people in this forum call out as 'white knights' his definition is pretty much spot on.

On Topic: Because it is easier than actually having an argument. You attack the opposition on stuff that has jack shit to do with the discussion at hand.

In most cases I think it is a way of shaming others and rationalizing one's own unempathetic behavior.

People who like to attack and exploit others want to feel justified for doing so. So to rationalize what they're doing, they label the others "whiteknight". Busybodies who aren't really good people but only have stupid and irrational ulterior motives.

This is further shown by the fact only a certain portion of the time that the term is used, it is a man helping a woman. In many case, it is just someone sticking up for someone that another person does not like.

You don't have to think that someone is defenseless to defend or support them. People tend to support anyone they like or causes they like for a variety of reasons. People will say things like "oh, you're just white knighting Barack Obama. Obviously most of the people "white knighting" Barack Obama, are not expecting sex in return. Or think that Barack Obama is defenseless. Just merely sticking up for a president against attacks they feel are unwarranted.

I'm a "white knight" much of the time. I don't want sex from people and I don't think they're defenseless. I just don't like black knights. I think their behavior disgusting and I don't like human beings being exploited. People are not excused for going around and posting other people's docs who are innocent, being sexual harassed, or anything like that, under the rationalization of "well at least I'm not a white knight."

It is almost comical villainy how some people go on about "white knights". "Those horrible do-gooders".

No, better yet.
"Oh look what clever childrenwhite knights.
See them study, watch them learn fanboy, watch them expose trolls.
How I hate those goody-goodies! How they make my stomach turn.
I've got a little secret, that'll really make them cry.
It's a nasty kind of magic. From a special kind of black knight."

Froggy Slayer:
Yes, I know about some of the alternate definitions, but I'm increasingly seeing it used for people who have any sort of idealism. People stepping on idealism is sort of a point of contention for me.

I don't think there's any alternate definition going on. When people say it they are making an accusation about someone's motives, they are claiming that particular definition applies. It's not like there's a new definition of Nazi because people might call others Nazis when they don't like them. Same thing really.

White-knighting, outside of its original context, is the act of shamelessly defending something despite evidence that is contrary to whatever ingrained representation the white knighter may have about that something. I see no difference between fanboys and white knighters -- both groups chafe at external opinion and willfully ignore pertinent information.

At least that's my personal definition.

Go browse the Steam Community forums (specifically the Suggestions/Ideas category) if you want to see some especially blatant examples of white knighters. The official Bethesda forums are good for that too.

White Knighting is just someone going against the grain of public opinion, its not wrong, people just dont think before they speak/type and accuse someone of sticking up/for with someone else.

Xdeser2:
White Knighting is just someone going against the grain of public opinion, its not wrong, people just dont think before they speak/type and accuse someone of sticking up/for with someone else.

Agreed.
More specifically, when White Knighting is performed in defense of a person (either directly or as an addition to an argument), it might be interpreted as patronizing.

That's the usual context I see White Knighting sneered at on the net...when it isn't associated with "fanboyism" anyway.

White knighting is insincere defence. How you tell what's sincere and what isn't I don't know. But the reason people don't like white knighting is it's patronising and often done in the hopes of a reward.

Do you truly believe 4chan represents a large majority of the internet or something?

I don't go on there at all and I've never seen it be called white-knighting and even then it's never seen as a "bad" thing, sure an argument erupts but neither party says "No! you're wrong for sticking up for your ideals!.

Also I was under the impression white-knighting was basically defending a girl on the internet because boobs. Using it to describe someone simply defending their ideals doesn't seem fitting to me... since knights are usually associated with saving people and fighting dragons not being philosophical and spreading their ideals and values.

image

Men get pretty weak and stupid when the opposite sex is involved, even on a subconscious level. For an experiment try masquerading convincingly as a girl on various online communities and see what comes of it. I knew someone who could pull off an incredible falsetto and they got guys to actually *give* him stuff online and allsorts. The irony is of course charging to a woman's aid to defend them implies that they needed defending which is kind of funny.

I guess by definition a "white knight" is defending something that most people are against or that is unpopular. So it kinda makes sense that people would generally hate them. If they're opinion weren't unpopular it wouldn't need a "white knight" defending it.

A white knight is someone who supports some person/group I feel like attacking, who shouldn't because they aren't part of that group. Therefore, I have to invent a motive for them other than self-interest.

FreedomofInformation:
What you've mentioned is something different from white knighting on the internet.

On the flip side, it's also something different from what people generally scream "WHITE KNIGHT!!!!!!" At.

thaluikhain:
A white knight is someone who supports some person/group I feel like attacking, who shouldn't because they aren't part of that group. Therefore, I have to invent a motive for them other than self-interest.

Or I conveniently infer a different form of self-interest.

But you see, we're disagreeing, so you are WHITE KNIGHTING!

Froggy Slayer:
This isn't to say that I always agree with them, but why has the idea of sticking up for you ideals and values seen as a bad thing by a lot of people these days (*cough*4chan*cough*)? As I've said, I don't always agree with some of these people, but I respect them for standing with their morals. It actually kind of disturbs me that so many people think of having morals and basic human empathy as a bad thing.

There is a world of difference between reciprocating empathy with your fellow human beings, and allowing yourself and your gender to be treated as disposable. Just because a person has a morale code doesn't mean that their morale code isn't absolute bullshit based on a pack of fabricated lies.

Keoul:
Do you truly believe 4chan represents a large majority of the internet or something?

It seems to represent a disturbingly large portion of the internet, that much is certain.

They may not be a large portion of the internet, but their userbase is several thousand times larger than the Escapist.

Life Cycle of a Memetically Created Word:
1. Original meaning or concept
2. Adaptation into new use (For some reason, this always happens on 4chan. Always.)
3. Usage expands and meaning becomes diluted.
4. People attempt to retroactively define the word.
5a. The attempt to define the word properly causes its definition to splinter even further, and it collapses into oblivion.
5b. It gets an Urban Dictionary page. Actually, everything has an Urban Dictionary page, so this changes nothing and it collapses into oblivion.
5c. It gets a Know Your Meme page. Interest gradually wanes and that fancy Google search history graph gradually plunges to zero, and it is forgotten forever.
6. Ponies.

We seem to be lodged firmly in step four at the moment.

White Knights are like Trolls - nobody can agree on what either actually is.

Abomination:
White Knights are like Trolls - nobody can agree on what either actually is.

Well there's a generally agreed upon definition for troll "person who incites anger intentionally" it's just that with Poe's Law it's nearly impossible to tell who is a troll and who isn't.

But yeah White Knight is a little different from place to place. From what I've seen it means "Person who defends a another person/concept/or thing without giving proper regard to the criticism that the it has received."

People get upset by 'white knights' because it shows them how much they actually let slide. People's mental image of themselves as 'good people' is important to them. But every sexist comment that they let be posted without raising an issue detracts from that self-image.

It's a kind of a lie people tell themselves to keep that self-image intact. The idea that the person is only helping someone to sleep with them makes them an inferior person, and thus we're are better than them, even though we've done nothing.

Of course, the argument against 'white knighting' is that women can look after themselves, and don't need protection, and it's inherently sexist to try and help them. Well, if you saw a woman being attacked on the street, would you just keep on walking? If you saw anyone being attacked, would you just ignore it? Well, maybe. But that's more revealing about you rather than the person running to help. That argument is just kind of silly.

In the end, 'white knight' hate is fairly irrational. You get angry at someone unrelated to you for helping a stranger out. People are going to try and twist the definition of the term to justify their anger... but rationalizing inaction and bad behavior is basically part of being human.

And if you still want to argue about peoples motives: People are judged by their actions.

Froggy Slayer:
This isn't to say that I always agree with them, but why has the idea of sticking up for you ideals and values seen as a bad thing by a lot of people these days (*cough*4chan*cough*)? As I've said, I don't always agree with some of these people, but I respect them for standing with their morals. It actually kind of disturbs me that so many people think of having morals and basic human empathy as a bad thing.

On the internet, "white-knighting" is a very very small-subset of what you're talking about. White-knighting refers to the anti-feminist notion of protecting women just because they are women and you are expecting a "reward" for doing it. While you might be accused of "white-knighting" for simply doing what you believe and protecting people you think need it, the vast majority of white-knighters are passive-aggressive horn-dogs, which is why it's frowned upon

I thought the term was Pink Knight. When a male takes the side of female even when the female is clearly wrong.

I've see a ton of girls be bitches on servers and there is always that pink knight that stands up for her. Most of the time the girl starts the argument herself.

White Knight on the other hand is when a person goes to another persons aid when need it. Which is the good version which no one has problems with.

From what I have seen, 'white knights' tend to back people anyone that get a lot of hate, even if they fully deserve the hate, either out of pity for someone they see as being unfairly ganged up on or to spite the people that are attacking the person(s) the white knight is well white knighting.

Sticking up for what you believe in is no problem and more power to you, a white knight is someone who takes the sides of women even when they are in the wrong or both parties are at fault and are incredibly annoying.

What about dark knighting?
You know, the popular practice of acting like batman around women on the internet?

 Pages 1 2 3 4 NEXT

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked