Is Dinsey becoming one of the best movies studios in the business?

NOTE: This is specifically about Disney and there relation with the film industry. Their shitty TV station and there mediocre games aren't really what this is about, but if you can find a way to relate it to them making movies go for it. Anyways...

It seems like in the last decade or so Disney has gotten quite a bit of flack, and most of it has been pretty much well deserved. Whether it be there extremely greedy business practices towards Pixar or the mediocre line of movies that they had been releasing ever since the early 2000's or just there complete fall from glory as the best family entertainment company in the world, for a long time many people, myself included, really didn't like Disney at all anymore.

But in 2008 thing weird happened... Bolt. What originally seemed like Disney using the breakout success of Miley Cryus to make a quick but turned out to be one of the best animated films of the year. OK, Disney, that's one good movie, big f'kin deal. Oh, and look what's coming next, The Princess and the Frog, just another shitty re-imagining of a classic tale now with the intent to appeal to a black audience. Oh... ummm... nevermind. What seemed to be just a shitty cash-in turned out to be a pretty damn good film, granted not among the top of the top Disney films of all time but still very enjoyable. OK, FINE, 2 movies Disney. Like I'm impressed with that, lets see you pull off three in a- HOLY SHIT! Tangled, I LOVE you! Best animated film of the year, Disney you have just topped yoursel- WHAT? Winnie the Pooh is getting a reboot?!?!?! My childhood has literally just taken over the right half of my brain!

And now, even us gamers have a movie we can be proud us. Wreck-It Ralph, cinema's love letter to video games, is without any doubt in my mind the best animated film of the year (yes, Pixar, including Brave) and I think I can speak for just about all of us that it touched the gamer in us all, and provided one damn awesome story to go along with it.

Now, I'd say those are some pretty good points, but I'm sure that some people still might not be convinced. To that, I point towards something that almost all unanimously adore, Marvels: The Avengers. Now this, this is the right way to acquire a studio. From on onlookers perspective, it seems like Disney bought up Marvel and basically said 'OK, here's access to our boatloads of resources directors and writers if you want 'em, keep making good movies and make us money and we'll let you do your thing'. And Marvel did do there thing and The Avengers was one of the most acclaimed and highest grossing movies in history. While it is to early to say definitively, Disney's acquiring of Marvel seems like it could be one of the best things for the two studios and, more importantly, us as an audience.

So, now here we are. The elephant in the room. Yes, it is time to talk about Star Wars. We don't know much about the new movies, not the leads, the plot, or anything really. But, what we do know, and what gives me an incredible amount of optimism is who is going to direct and, much more importantly, who is going to write it. Abrams, as we all know by now, is signed to direct the new movie which is something that has received a rather mixed reaction by many Escapists (something to do with lens flares?). Personally, while he isn't my first choice for the job *cough cough* Brad Bird *cough cough* but he has shown some real talent and as a director he seems like he will do a good job with this. But what I'm really excited about is the writer, Michael Arndy. For the majority of you who won't know his name, I'll give you a brief rundown of his screenwriting credits: Little Miss Sunshine, Toy Story 3 (aka the best animated film of all time), Brave, The Hunger Games: Catching Fire, Oblivion (yes, MovieBob, I know shitty story but in his defense he probably wasn't even allowed to write anything good because of there target audience being 14 year old boys) and now Star Wars Episode 7. Now this guy, he has some chops when it comes to writing a story and I'm pretty surprised that us nerds haven't been paying more attention to him.

So, there is it. In the last 5 years, in my opinion of course, Disney has really stepped up and is quickly becoming one of the best studios in the industry. Now, don't get me wrong, there is still a lot Disney does that I'm not a fan of, but as of now its all pretty minor and is definitely outweighed by the positives. But, of course, I want to hear your guy's thoughts as well. Agree, disagree, think I'm an idiot I don't care, just keep it civil and let the debating begin.

No, they've been rather kind but not the best studio ever.

They're like a gentle giant I guess I could say.

Hey, I just watched Oblivion. It was pretty well done. The story may have been simple, but it was real sci-fi, with some actual ideas behind the explosions. We need more movies like that, not less.

And it's true that Disney puts out a lot of great movies, but they always have, this is nothing recent. They've just been a lot more open about the connections they have to their subsidiaries (like Marvel Studios, which is really its own thing that Disney just happens to own) than they were in the past. Disney is a massive media conglomerate, they basically own your childhood. Them, Warner Brothers, and Hasbro, anyway.

Owyn_Merrilin:
Hey, I just watched Oblivion.
And it's true that Disney puts out a lot of great movies, but they always have, this is nothing recent.

For about 7 or 8 years (pretty much everything between Emperors New Groove and Bolt with the exception of Lilo and Stitch) was pretty bland in my opinion. For that fairly long stretch of time Disney had basically devolved into the mediocre half of Dreamworks.

I thought Wreck-it-Ralph was just okay. I mean, it had nice characters, but the plot was like - well let's just say that it was about videogames in that it literally involved videogames, but it wasn't really about videogames the way Toy Story tapped into what toys were, which is what I would've expected them to have done to be so well received amongst gamers (rather than just having a bunch of fan service-y cameos).

I'm prepared to enjoy VII, but I think they'll over saturate the market if they make the franchise a yearly thing. I mean how big of a deal was it when a Star Wars movie came out? I remember Episode II - you had novels, comics, videogames, and even that animated series. As a kid I ate all that stuff up.

afroebob:

Owyn_Merrilin:
Hey, I just watched Oblivion.
And it's true that Disney puts out a lot of great movies, but they always have, this is nothing recent.

For about 7 or 8 years (pretty much everything between Emperors New Groove and Bolt with the exception of Lilo and Stitch) was pretty bland in my opinion. For that fairly long stretch of time Disney had basically devolved into the mediocre half of Dreamworks.

I think making a bunch of just okay CG movies is still leagues above more or less making the Scary Movie equivalent of kids movies (though the first Shrek was alright).

They were one of the best movie studio's of all time, just look at all the classics everyone knows about. There current movies are still average at best and nothing about them is really worth remembering.

However, in this bland mediocre time they are one of the best now that I think about it.

I dunno... If we are counting Pixar then sure but even then, they've kind of been declining. IMO, Disney was it's best in the 90's with the Lion King.
Seriously, this is one of my favourite scenes in all of film:


Then again, Hans Zimmer is a pretty major reason for why I love this scene.

Nazulu:
They were one of the best movie studio's of all time, just look at all the classics everyone knows about. There current movies are still average at best and nothing about them is really worth remembering.

However, in this bland mediocre time they are one of the best now that I think about it.

What about the Pirates of the Caribbean films, the first 2 were fucking awesome.

I don't think they have changed much since the 90s, other than the visual quality.
The rest of the industry fucking plummeted since the introduction of 3D though.

flarty:

Nazulu:
They were one of the best movie studio's of all time, just look at all the classics everyone knows about. There current movies are still average at best and nothing about them is really worth remembering.

However, in this bland mediocre time they are one of the best now that I think about it.

What about the Pirates of the Caribbean films, the first 2 were fucking awesome.

I should have specified when the bland period started :-P

Yeah, I really enjoyed those 2, saw them about 3 times each in the cinemas.

They are not become one of the best they are simply buying other studios that are really good at what they do.

Th3Ch33s3Cak3:
I think they are a terrible studio. I thought that the Avengers was an incredible poorly done film. I also think that Pixar has never produce a good film. I've never liked a Pixar, Disney or Marvel film(with the exclusion of Pirates of the Carribean(the first one) and Spider-Man 2).

Hmm.

I think you can rest safely in the knowledge that you are just plain wrong here, to the extent that this reads like pure trolling. I mean, it's one thing to say you personally have never liked any Pixar film, but you are clearly in the tiniest of minorities, so therefore in no position at all to say that the films are not good in an objective sense. Especially when you turn round and say you liked Pirates of the Carribean, which isn't exactly Citizen Kane, is it?

Flatfrog:

Th3Ch33s3Cak3:
I think they are a terrible studio. I thought that the Avengers was an incredible poorly done film. I also think that Pixar has never produce a good film. I've never liked a Pixar, Disney or Marvel film(with the exclusion of Pirates of the Carribean(the first one) and Spider-Man 2).

Hmm.

I think you can rest safely in the knowledge that you are just plain wrong here, to the extent that this reads like pure trolling. I mean, it's one thing to say you personally have never liked any Pixar film, but you are clearly in the tiniest of minorities, so therefore in no position at all to say that the films are not good in an objective sense. Especially when you turn round and say you liked Pirates of the Carribean, which isn't exactly Citizen Kane, is it?

Excuse me. Not only is it obvious that it's his opinion and he never said he was being objective, he also wrote 'think' and 'thought' to cushion the blow for those who are more sensitive.

Watch who you say is trolling because that word is pretty much banned here and will instantly land you a warning. It's also never been clever for arguing with anyway.

Another thing you should know is popular opinion is not fact, so you should always want to listen to WHY they believe these things because people view entertainment very differently. You can't just say someone is WRONG when you don't even know why they are wrong, as well as you offer no evidence at all.

And last but especially not least;

Especially when you turn round and say you liked Pirates of the Carribean, which isn't exactly Citizen Kane, is it?

Where the hell did that come from?

Look mate. On every forum ever you are going to find people that hate everything you like, so the best move is to either ignore them or figure out where they're coming from. Basically, respect and discuss.

No, Disney and Pixar have systematically killed real animation in America, and replaced it with processed CG shit that looks like the same machine that made toy story back in 1995 is making their movies today.

Disney animation movies have no soul, and they seem hellbent on making sure ALL of their movies lack soul to an equal extent.

Disney is the fast food restaurant of the movie industry.

Ever seen "The Lion King"? It's the best animated movie of all time. Disney have always been good.

Becoming? they have been a power house all through this century and the last. they produced many of the first cartoons and i think snow white was the first animated full length feature film in the world, correct me if i'm wrong.

afroebob:

Owyn_Merrilin:
Hey, I just watched Oblivion.
And it's true that Disney puts out a lot of great movies, but they always have, this is nothing recent.

For about 7 or 8 years (pretty much everything between Emperors New Groove and Bolt with the exception of Lilo and Stitch) was pretty bland in my opinion. For that fairly long stretch of time Disney had basically devolved into the mediocre half of Dreamworks.

That's just their animation output, though. They made the Pirates of the Caribbean movies in that time frame, plus all the stuff put out by Touchstone pictures, some of which was crap, some of which was really, really good. I'm sure there's other good Disney prouctions from that time frame that were good too, and I'm just forgetting that they were made by Disney.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Touchstone_Pictures_films

By the way, why do you count Marvel and Lucasfilm but ignore Pixar? They've all got pretty much the same sort of "owned by but basically hands off" relationship with Disney.

They weren't already?

Sure, there are times where some of the movies they make aren't all that good, but I think the same could be said for all major animation studios. For the most part, they did a darn good job. Just look at stuff like The Lion King, Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast, ect. And don't even get me started on all the stuff they did before the nineties. They have always been an animation powerhouse.

Evil Smurf:
Ever seen "The Lion King"? It's the best animated movie of all time. Disney have always been good.

I know its your opinion and it is still a great movie, but calling "Hamlet for Kids" the greatest animated movie of all time is a rather absurd considering you must have an extreme bias for cats.

They produce good films, they tend to stick to their comfort zone a little to much though, especially these past couple of years.
I'm more interested in Atlantis and Treasure Planet tbh. They are far from their best movies but they were both really unique and out there that it is almost hard to believe that they were made by Disney when compared to their other films, particularly Atlantis which had some very dark nuances.

Sherokain:
Becoming? they have been a power house all through this century and the last. they produced many of the first cartoons and i think snow white was the first animated full length feature film in the world, correct me if i'm wrong.

No, they actually haven't. In fact, Don Bluth almost ran Disney into the ground during the early 80s. Disney was tanking hard for a while because they started cutting corners and producing low quality films. Little Mermaid basically salvaged them from ruin. Which is kind of funny, because Little Mermaid is a film that doesn't hold up to any kind of scrutiny, but that's the film-going public, for you. In any case, Disney has had its ups and downs and has, at one point, would have completely gone out of business if not for their theme parks.
And Disney did not invent the first cartoons. There had been animation for several years before Walt Disney got into the business. What Disney did was be the visionary who created the first full-length animated film.

They were better in the 90's to be completely honest. The 00's weren't too kind to them, and now they've made a couple movies that live up to how well they were doing 20 years ago. I hope they keep getting better, but I'm not dumb enough to just assume they will. Disney makes a habit of making terrible business decisions that ruin their works, mostly by cutting costs and assuming children are all dumb and will just watch any shit they give them.

I dont think so. I think they're definitely powerful, but thats just cause they have tons of money to throw up and buy up properties before others can, and that doesnt make them the best. thats just a game of odds. I think pixar is one of the best in business and while disney does own them i never really think of them as disney. Plus they're starting to cash in their goodwill with Monster Inc University and if they do make that toy story 4 that is floating around the internet. Disney just owns a lot of good properties like marvel, so the avengers probably could have been done as well elsewhere assuming all the key players remained. their biggest non animated movies the past decade or so has been PotC and even then only the first one was anyhting really good. each one after just seemed to delve into mediocrity as they went.

Not mention disney has put out some raelly crap movie like HSM3, Alice in Wonderland (the newest one, with johnny depp), the hannah montana movie, haunted mansion, anyhting involving Zac Efron (since they made him the "star" he is), and in the future the new Lone Ranger movie (which im convinced is just an excuse to give depp the chance to play a native american and add it to his acting list), ANOTHER pirates movie, a phineas and ferb movie, and Maleficent which im not exactly excited for.

No.

Besides their empire of evil, foregoing their foundations of hatred, ignoring their philosophies of fiendishness, they are simply a mediocre at best film studio that functions predominantly on the strength of their access to special effects and ownership of CGI studios. Look at the much lauded Marvel films. Every one of them since Disney defiling the property have been tedious, repetitive and boring. They manage a feat one must "marvel" at in somehow managing to make things that should be awesome absolutely boring by constantly trying to out "awesome" themselves.

It is good to see they have been working to branch out from the kid friendly arena to encompass the teen/young adult demographics too. However that is where they are showing one of their key failures because in that transition of demographic maturity they are either unwilling or unable to show the same maturity in their content. They took properties meant for teen/young adults and diluted them down and sanitized them for kid friendly kid to pre teen audiences with physical violence.

They will also do the exact same thing with the Star Wars franchise. Take everything that was intruiging such as the concepts of the Sith and prepare for them to be watered down to basically rehashes of typical disney villian tropes with no complexity or depth and most certainly nothing remotely dark or evil outside of what can fit into disney ideology such as greed. No more slaughter of younglings as proof of conversion. No more obliterating entire planets on mere genocidal whims of fancy. Just good ole fashioned safe "I love control and wealth even though I have no idea why"

So are they becoming the best? Not even close, and in fact their recent surge of popularity is a detriment to all film making because they are making it harder for other movies aimed at these demographics to exist, devouring and deficating out properties in their wake. Disney is also a major reason why we do not have animation/CGI for more mature audiences in the US. It is a risk making anything that threatens to move into Disneys yard so few ever try. Just look at 2007's Beowulf and how well it did. Or did you like everyone else not even know of its existence?

So no. In fact the film world would be MUCH better off without their presence.

The only non-pixar franchise I really care about is Pirates of the Caribbean, those films are absolutely amazing. The other films are mainly for children, and look really boring to me. Saying that, I have real hope for Star Wars 7, hopefully it will be alright. And I'm already counting the days/months/years until PotC5.

The concept of the question is almost ridiculous..... Is Disney "turning into" one of the best movie studios in the business.... Umm they are the goal towards which EVERYONE strives in the realm of children's entertainment.

I guarantee you, if I were to do a "name your favorite childhood film" thread on this site (or just about any other for that matter) at least 60% probably closer to 70% would be Disney films.

Nowadays Disney exists solely to turn children into dedicated consumers. The level of marketing they're going to invest in for the new Star Wars movies is going to be mind-controllingboggling.

KungFuJazzHands:
Nowadays Disney exists solely to turn children into dedicated consumers. The level of marketing they're going to invest in for the new Star Wars movies is going to be mind-controllingboggling.

Eh, after re-watching Star Trek '09 literally just a few minutes ago, I have no worries about Star Wars VII. You can tell Abrams really loves Star Wars. He may not give a crap about Star Trek, but he loves Star Wars, and made a good Star Wars movie back in 2009. It just had the wrong name attached to it.

Nazulu:

Flatfrog:

Th3Ch33s3Cak3:
I think they are a terrible studio. I thought that the Avengers was an incredible poorly done film. I also think that Pixar has never produce a good film. I've never liked a Pixar, Disney or Marvel film(with the exclusion of Pirates of the Carribean(the first one) and Spider-Man 2).

Hmm.

I think you can rest safely in the knowledge that you are just plain wrong here, to the extent that this reads like pure trolling. I mean, it's one thing to say you personally have never liked any Pixar film, but you are clearly in the tiniest of minorities, so therefore in no position at all to say that the films are not good in an objective sense. Especially when you turn round and say you liked Pirates of the Carribean, which isn't exactly Citizen Kane, is it?

Excuse me. Not only is it obvious that it's his opinion and he never said he was being objective, he also wrote 'think' and 'thought' to cushion the blow for those who are more sensitive.

Watch who you say is trolling because that word is pretty much banned here and will instantly land you a warning. It's also never been clever for arguing with anyway.

Another thing you should know is popular opinion is not fact, so you should always want to listen to WHY they believe these things because people view entertainment very differently. You can't just say someone is WRONG when you don't even know why they are wrong, as well as you offer no evidence at all.

When I read this I wondered if I'd been too harsh, but on consideration I still stand by my original post. I would still argue that Th3Ch33s3Cak3's opinion (Awesome name, dude :) ), is not only wrong, but objectively wrong. And since you ask, I'm going to give my reasons more clearly.

S/he didn't say 'Pixar have never produced a film I liked', which I'd have no argument with, but 'Pixar have never produced a good film'. Preceding this with 'I think' doesn't change anything about that - naturally everything anyone ever says could be preceded with 'I think'. I understand that this is an opinion, but opinions can be wrong. So the statement is saying that Pixar's films are universally 'not good'.

So what constitutes a 'good' film? There are lots of definitions of that, but I'd argue that at least one such definition has to be 'popular with its intended audience'. So when people tell me that Harry Potter is rubbish because it's 'badly written' or that The Da Vinci Code is terrible because it's 'trashy', I always argue that millions of obsessive readers prove them wrong. Just by popularity alone, Pixar have to be given credit for producing good films. (I can't stand The Lion King, but I'd never say it's objectively bad - there must be something about it that I'm missing)

But there's more. Pixar have also won critical and industry acclaim. Their films have won every prize going, including nominations for Best Picture Oscars. So the opinion of experts in the field is also that their films are of high, even exceptional quality - that is to say, they're not just popular, they are also considered well-made works by those people who earn a living being objective about film-making.

So what is left for Th3Ch33s3Cak3 to fall back on in his/her opinion? Well, there could be plain snobbery. Perhaps Th3Ch33s3Cak3 is a film buff who only enjoys films of a certain highbrow nature, and spurns those who enjoy such low art as Toy Story. Like I say, such an attitude would be snobbish but at least consistent and I could have some respect for it. But that's why I was so confused to find him/her praising Pirates of the Caribbean of all things. Now I love Pirates. It's good fun entertainment. But it's not highbrow. So now I'm left unable to see any context in which Th3Ch33s3Cak3's opinion makes any sense.

So I'm left with only one conclusion. Th3Ch33s3Cak3's opinion is wrong. Objectively. That doesn't mean s/he doesn't have a perfect right to hold that opinion. But it's still wrong. And I don't see why saying so is disrespectful or why I should hold back from it.

Oh - and as for 'trolling' - I did say it 'reads like trolling'. And I stand by that too. You can't say 'Pixar have never made a good film' without knowing it will provoke a negative reaction. And it's such a stark statement that I find it quite hard to believe that anyone could truly believe it.

Yeah, everyone just seems to be ignoring the low business ethics that Disney employs. They are near EA-levels of bad (actually, worse in some areas). And that dry period which I refer to as Disney's reality show period (Cheap shows like High School Musical and Zak and Cody) was hardly making up for their negative impact on the industry. Buying Pixar did little to improve them, as it has now been almost 10 years since The Incredibles, and since then we have gotten more sequels and less of something new and amazing.

The OP does point out some damn good movies, but something still feels a little shallow about them, and their releases feel like they are trickling in as an afterthought. When I was a kid, I was always looking forward to Disney's next big release. Maybe it's because I'm an adult and don't view kid's marketing, but when movies like Tangled and Princess and the Frog came out, I got the sense that Disney was just throwing a bone at us because they'd prefer to keep making the cheap "reality" shows that take little cost or effort.

They made Wreck-It-Ralph.
Wreck-It-Ralph made me cry like a small child.
Disney in turn, won my vote.

Though seriously, they are a huge power house but I wouldn't go as far as to say the best.

Their movies are decent enough for kids to watch and not get bored, myself however, see very little entertainment in Disnay. In fact, the only animations tudio's I honestly look forward to are Studio Ghibli. With Pixar it's about 50 %, especielly now with Cars 2 and Brave being kinda meh and not all that engaging.

If I was a little kid I'd look forward ro it, but I can't relly call them the best movie studio in buissness with an honest mind, seeming how bland and safe almost all of their movie are.

afroebob:
-snip-

They aren't really a "movie studio," per se, they just got Michael Eisner out of the CEO chair and learned how to be savvy with their IPs and resources again. "Disney" isn't necessarily "making" all of these movies. They are distributing them and budgeting them, for sure, but they are delegating all the legwork and actual creation to people who care about the projects. They're being good about keeping their nose out of the wrong places, and not placing a deathgrip on their studios.

I think there is an interesting range of responses here, though. Some are saying "Disney has always been good!" while others are saying "Disney has always been bad, all they make is children's movies these days!" Well, no, first of all. They don't. They've produced countless films adults have liked (Children of Men, Pirates, all the new Marvel movies, a few more I can't think of at the moment...). Hell, in the Great Movie Ride in Disney World, they feature a clip from Good Morning Vietnam. They produce and distribute plenty of adult-oriented films. You just may not know it because, quite smartly, they don't quite as boldly stamp DISNEY on these releases as they do on movies like Wreck It Ralph.

Disney has had its ups and downs, for sure. The late 90s and early 00s were a pretty substantial low point. Michael Eisner became a bit paranoid and refused to let any part of the company take risks anymore. That was the time when we saw all those God-awful direct-to-DVD sequels. Now they've got Bob Iger, who has been slowly but surely re-vamping every aspect of the company. Not only their films, but also their parks and international endeavors. The parks are doing well, and I think they've been spot-on with their films, but I think the department that still needs the most work is their TV programming. They hit goldmine with Phineas and Ferb, and I hope that they carry that success into the future and focus on things like that. Programming that isn't gimmicky and pidgeonholed into demographics like Hannah Montana or Camp Rock, but rather is centered around a single idea that is unique, fun, and most importantly well-written.

That is why Phineas and Ferb is so enjoyed by such a broad audience--it's well written. It's engaging and fun for the audience it was designed to entertain, but the writing is substantial enough that it isn't insulting or banal to anyone who doesn't happen to fall within that demographic. Zach and Cody is terribly written, and while it might be entertaining for a very specific demographic of children, I know as a mid/late teenager I found the writing and general flow of the plots to be insulting. It was so obvious the show wasn't about "kids," it was about some focus-group's imagining of what kids are like.

I guess that is what I find so baffling in threads like this: people who seem to think "Disney" is some big conglomerate that does the same things and has the same level of success in all areas. They need a strong leader, for sure, but Disney is led by a lot of people and their departments are very separate from each other with their own unique sets of problems. I think it's rather unfair to say that the movies Disney releases are somehow tarnished by their bad TV programming. The departments have basically nothing to do with each other, so trying to draw parallels is not only useless but also just factually incorrect.

Flatfrog:

Nazulu:

Flatfrog:

Hmm.

I think you can rest safely in the knowledge that you are just plain wrong here, to the extent that this reads like pure trolling. I mean, it's one thing to say you personally have never liked any Pixar film, but you are clearly in the tiniest of minorities, so therefore in no position at all to say that the films are not good in an objective sense. Especially when you turn round and say you liked Pirates of the Carribean, which isn't exactly Citizen Kane, is it?

Excuse me. Not only is it obvious that it's his opinion and he never said he was being objective, he also wrote 'think' and 'thought' to cushion the blow for those who are more sensitive.

Watch who you say is trolling because that word is pretty much banned here and will instantly land you a warning. It's also never been clever for arguing with anyway.

Another thing you should know is popular opinion is not fact, so you should always want to listen to WHY they believe these things because people view entertainment very differently. You can't just say someone is WRONG when you don't even know why they are wrong, as well as you offer no evidence at all.

When I read this I wondered if I'd been too harsh, but on consideration I still stand by my original post. I would still argue that Th3Ch33s3Cak3's opinion (Awesome name, dude :) ), is not only wrong, but objectively wrong. And since you ask, I'm going to give my reasons more clearly.

S/he didn't say 'Pixar have never produced a film I liked', which I'd have no argument with, but 'Pixar have never produced a good film'. Preceding this with 'I think' doesn't change anything about that - naturally everything anyone ever says could be preceded with 'I think'. I understand that this is an opinion, but opinions can be wrong. So the statement is saying that Pixar's films are universally 'not good'.

So what constitutes a 'good' film? There are lots of definitions of that, but I'd argue that at least one such definition has to be 'popular with its intended audience'. So when people tell me that Harry Potter is rubbish because it's 'badly written' or that The Da Vinci Code is terrible because it's 'trashy', I always argue that millions of obsessive readers prove them wrong. Just by popularity alone, Pixar have to be given credit for producing good films. (I can't stand The Lion King, but I'd never say it's objectively bad - there must be something about it that I'm missing)

But there's more. Pixar have also won critical and industry acclaim. Their films have won every prize going, including nominations for Best Picture Oscars. So the opinion of experts in the field is also that their films are of high, even exceptional quality - that is to say, they're not just popular, they are also considered well-made works by those people who earn a living being objective about film-making.

So what is left for Th3Ch33s3Cak3 to fall back on in his/her opinion? Well, there could be plain snobbery. Perhaps Th3Ch33s3Cak3 is a film buff who only enjoys films of a certain highbrow nature, and spurns those who enjoy such low art as Toy Story. Like I say, such an attitude would be snobbish but at least consistent and I could have some respect for it. But that's why I was so confused to find him/her praising Pirates of the Caribbean of all things. Now I love Pirates. It's good fun entertainment. But it's not highbrow. So now I'm left unable to see any context in which Th3Ch33s3Cak3's opinion makes any sense.

So I'm left with only one conclusion. Th3Ch33s3Cak3's opinion is wrong. Objectively. That doesn't mean s/he doesn't have a perfect right to hold that opinion. But it's still wrong. And I don't see why saying so is disrespectful or why I should hold back from it.

Oh - and as for 'trolling' - I did say it 'reads like trolling'. And I stand by that too. You can't say 'Pixar have never made a good film' without knowing it will provoke a negative reaction. And it's such a stark statement that I find it quite hard to believe that anyone could truly believe it.

Oh no! Flatfrog is back! Bigger and Better than ever... but unfortunately it's still the same thing :-P

Hate to burst your bubble, but it has nothing to do with you being to harsh. It's more that your just missing the point completely, and I'll actually back that up for you.

There are two massive reasons why should avoid the word trolling. One is you'll eventually get banned, and believe me, I've been around here for very long and seen many perish for just uttering it a sense. You can stand by it as much as you want but the rules don't agree with you so watch out. Two is it doesn't make you look good. It's like desperate attempt for a comeback which many expect from kids, bogans and lazy people who don't read the rules. It also doesn't mean anything since it doesn't provide anything. Seriously, it just shows that your aggressive and sensitive, and the people you call trolls won't consider you someone worth talking too. They'll just wait till you get banned.

And now for the most painful of all, why popularity has nothing to do with fact. Actually it's quiet easy to prove; explain to us how more people liking something makes it better? Actually explain in a way that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt, why? Something popular winning awards is not proof of anything, it's just many opinions agreeing with one thing. That's it, it's quite meaningless. You say experts being objective, I say people with opinions picking something and making money.

Also, people should be able to say something is 'bad' without negative reaction because those sensitive people should remember it's just his opinion and they have the power to ignore it. It's that simple. However, he should actually explain why he thinks it's bad but most don't even know how to explain themselves so I usually let it pass. That goes for you too by the way, explain your reasons why someone is wrong right there and then.

Th3Ch33s3Cak3 obviously prefers Pirates of the Caribbean for a different reason. Why? I have no idea. You didn't even bother asking. For all you know he could actually make a point you couldn't counter, but you won't know that until you do.

So no, you are not using the word objectively right at all. All you're doing is stating your opinions as fact without backing anything up. You've literally offered no evidence of anything.

Also, the word highbrow, how do you know when something is worthy of the elites? There are many different parts of all entertainment that literally entertain different people. Some people literally can just watch something for the story while everything else is bad, as in stands out. Just because someones profession is as a reviewer or something for judging, doesn't mean they know what highbrow means. I'm surprised you mentioned Citizen Kain when there are far more popular choices to compare too.

 

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