Apparently this matters: student lectures teacher, walks out of class *updated*

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http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2013/05/duncanville-high-school-student-lecturing-his-history-teacher-in-the-classroom-goes-viral.html/
http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/22201163/duncanville-students-teacher-rant-goes-viral

I seen this video on a lot of sites but this one, and it has drawn huge attention.

A student is told to leave the class after asking the teacher why his class got less time to take the same test as others, and gives a speech on how children can't be left alone and hope they learn from packets. That teachers must engage the class to be successful, and the future of a nation depends on competent teachers. Jeff accuses that the teacher cussed him out.

The Student, named Jeff Bliss, is being called a hero for standing up to a bad teacher. Jeff is an 18 year old drop out who came back.

The district responded with this statement:

"As a district with a motto of Engaging Hearts and Minds we focus on building positive relationships with students and designing engaging work that is meaningful. We want our students and teachers to be engaged, but the method by which the student expressed his concern could have been handled in a more appropriate way. We are and will continue to be open to listening to students."

Reportedly, the teacher made a deal with Jeff later in the day. The district has no plans to punish Jeff.

So what do you think? Is this another case of teenagers thinking they are deeper than they really are? or Does Jeff have a point?

Personally, he can do with a lesson in English.

EDIT: Video taken down, replaced with working one.

Yes, studies have shown repeatedly that encouraging student participation and showing enthusiasm is far more conducive to learning than just making them copy information or listen to a teacher giving a speech. Students are also more likely to be motivated and learn if they feel like their teacher actually cares about them.

That said teachers are overworked and underpaid. They are often severely restricted in what and how they teach even though there is no reason not to give some flexibility within parameters, which has also been shown to correlate negatively with motivation. They are often the scapegoats when students do poorly, when the real problem is lack of resources due to an underfunded public education system.

So I'm not going to call the kid a hero. It's very likely she knows she's not doing a good job but doesn't give a fuck because of how under-valued, under-paid and unrewarding her shitty fucking job is.

Damn sure he's right. Students often have a better perception on what does work on them and how the teacher does in class because, surprise, they are the ones being thought. It is the teachers JOB to make sure he engages them, and actually teaches shit, by any means that works.

Let me finish this with a nice story, when i was in, i guess you could call it high school but i was about 17 y/o, i was following math. Well most people do but ok. In any case this teacher wasn't there for half the class or more (we had 70 minute classes) and then when he finally DID show up and you asked a question, he would just say the theory for that assignment is on that page go read it. If you would come back he would just had you the answer sheet and tell you to try and figure it out from that.

Needless to say the class average was about a 3,5 / 4.

Side note, we get grades from a 1 as lowest and 10 as highest. A 5,5 is usually a passing grade.

Then this teacher somehow managed to get a burnout and we got someone else to cover him.

He managed to actually get the class engaged in the lessons, and could explain the stuff so good the class average went up to a 6,0 .

A few months later the old teacher came back with his old methods of teaching fuck all, seriously he wouldn't even use the blackboard most of the times, and the class average dropped back to a 3,5 / 4

Oh...one of those guys. I think they are called..."teenagers", yeah. Fight the Power, fight the Man, erm, man. Preach it, brother! Don't let the fact that what you're saying is in no way what, like, half the teenagers have been saying all the time, complete with the snarky, passive-aggressive tone and everything, you, my friend, you are the real thing - the voice of the generation and the messiah of students. Allelujah!

OK, the problem isn't that he's saying generic things a lot of others have been saying, it's the way he's saying them. Namely, how a lot of others have been saying them. He takes an antagonistic stance - they are the teachers and we are the students - two opposing camps. Instead of, you know, trying to work things out properly - join a student committee if there is one, otherwise make one and work with the teachers to make matters better. Ranting at them is not really productive.

He may be right about the teacher being incompetent, but it seems to me that this kid was doing the wrong thing in class, talking/distracting other students/on his phone etc and then throws a tantrum when he gets called out on it. I knew a kid who did this several times in classes throughout middle and high school and it annoyed the hell out of me because his behavior was more of a detriment to our learning than the teacher's incompetence.

He has a point but in my eyes he isn't arguing that point because he gives a shit about any of the other kids, he argues it for his own selfish reasons, reasoning that the teacher kicked him out of class because the teacher is incompetent, not that he was being disruptive or doing the wrong thing. He is not a hero, he is a drama queen.

I don't know - the Chinese kids my class tended to do much better than the European kids at maths and science and they were raised in the old-school way of "Teacher tells you, you listen, you write it down, you read it again and again, and then you apply it" - the same formula that people have been using for hundreds of years (I know, I know, it's a stereotype, but it happens to be a stereotype for a reason - when they gave out the Awards for doing well in the QLD State Mathematics Competition, virtually all the winners were from China, and I didn't go to a school were most of the kids were Chinese).

I'm half Chinese myself, and my mother taught me in the old-school traditional chinese ways - read it and read it and read it until you learn it. And then do questions. You can't do the questions? READ IT AGAIN!

I have two degrees and I'm studying medicine at the University of Queensland. So that teaching method must have done something right.

It's often not the teaching method - it's how motivated the students are to pay attention, and methods alone can't correct that. Why are the Asian students (at least in Australia, but I suspect the same thing is going on in the US), doing better than the Caucasian students? Asians are not inherently better at math - Caucasians can do math juuuuust fine. Any race can do math just fine! In the past, Caucasians did better than Asians, so genetics isn't the answer.

It's because Asian Parents (and I was raised by one!) stress the importance of education to their kids. Caucasian parents USED to do this, and the good ones still do, but many Caucasian parents no longer care about the academic success of their child, no longer push them to do better, no longer stress to them the importance of doing things well. My mother CONSTANTLY told us to do well in school, constantly checked our homework, constantly made us do extra-work and answer questions from books she bought to test us. To the Chinese, Education is often the 1# priority, and they reflect that in the way they raise children. No, getting a C is not okay. No, blaming the teacher every time you do poorly is not okay. If Sarah and Jake and Luo can get an A, when being taught by the SAME teacher in the SAME class, why can't you?!

My mother always said that 9/10, it's the student's fault for not paying attention, and no, it really isn't the teacher's fault that the kid doesn't want to learn. I've seen good teachers try to get kids motivated, but very often the kids don't care. They just don't. Why? Because their parents never put even the slightest pressure on them to do well.

DoPo:
Oh...one of those guys. I think they are called..."teenagers", yeah. Fight the Power, fight the Man, erm, man. Preach it, brother! Don't let the fact that what you're saying is in no way what, like, half the teenagers have been saying all the time, complete with the snarky, passive-aggressive tone and everything, you, my friend, you are the real thing - the voice of the generation and the messiah of students. Allelujah!

OK, the problem isn't that he's saying generic things a lot of others have been saying, it's the way he's saying them. Namely, how a lot of others have been saying them. He takes an antagonistic stance - they are the teachers and we are the students - two opposing camps. Instead of, you know, trying to work things out properly - join a student committee if there is one, otherwise make one and work with the teachers to make matters better. Ranting at them is not really productive.

I think it's just frustration speaking.

What you said is easier said than done, teens aren't the most efficient creatures and it's not "cool" to go to a meeting to talk with teachers on how to better educate the class. The teachers might just be down on the kids, "they don't want to learn" etc they might think if they did try to organised such a thing the teens wouldn't turn up to it.

Everything you said makes it sound like lollipops and rainbows or an overly nice counselor, just sit in a big group and talk it out but it never goes that way ... it always descends into arguments and accusations.

Although i respect the kid for trying to take a stand, I also think that standing up for your right is over done.
Sometimes you just have to learn to play along and be polite even if the speaker is boring.
That is socialization.

omega 616:

DoPo:
Oh...one of those guys. I think they are called..."teenagers", yeah. Fight the Power, fight the Man, erm, man. Preach it, brother! Don't let the fact that what you're saying is in no way what, like, half the teenagers have been saying all the time, complete with the snarky, passive-aggressive tone and everything, you, my friend, you are the real thing - the voice of the generation and the messiah of students. Allelujah!

OK, the problem isn't that he's saying generic things a lot of others have been saying, it's the way he's saying them. Namely, how a lot of others have been saying them. He takes an antagonistic stance - they are the teachers and we are the students - two opposing camps. Instead of, you know, trying to work things out properly - join a student committee if there is one, otherwise make one and work with the teachers to make matters better. Ranting at them is not really productive.

I think it's just frustration speaking.

What you said is easier said than done, teens aren't the most efficient creatures and it's not "cool" to go to a meeting to talk with teachers on how to better educate the class. The teachers might just be down on the kids, "they don't want to learn" etc they might think if they did try to organised such a thing the teens wouldn't turn up to it.

Everything you said makes it sound like lollipops and rainbows or an overly nice counselor, just sit in a big group and talk it out but it never goes that way ... it always descends into arguments and accusations.

No, I never meant for it to be lollipops and rainbows, however, "ranting about the System" is not the way to go. It's the easy solution, then you paint yourself like some sort of martyr and...things go on as they were before. If you actually want change, you should takes steps to make it. Idly declaring "this should change" and then angsting and yelling "I told you so" doesn't really have the same effect...or no effect at all.

If we were going about what's "cool" to do or not, instead of what's efficient, then...I think you can sort of guess how much results you'd get.

Also - "always descends into arguments and accusations" - well, then you're doing it wrong. It doesn't have to end in quarrels - I've seen several occasions when it didn't, so much for the "always" part. Key is being reasonable human being - if the opposite side refuses to listen, you cut the meeting immediately - no need to stay and be shouted at. Then you can contact somewhere further up. Shouting yourself is the least productive of ways.

omega 616:

DoPo:
Oh...one of those guys. I think they are called..."teenagers", yeah. Fight the Power, fight the Man, erm, man. Preach it, brother! Don't let the fact that what you're saying is in no way what, like, half the teenagers have been saying all the time, complete with the snarky, passive-aggressive tone and everything, you, my friend, you are the real thing - the voice of the generation and the messiah of students. Allelujah!

OK, the problem isn't that he's saying generic things a lot of others have been saying, it's the way he's saying them. Namely, how a lot of others have been saying them. He takes an antagonistic stance - they are the teachers and we are the students - two opposing camps. Instead of, you know, trying to work things out properly - join a student committee if there is one, otherwise make one and work with the teachers to make matters better. Ranting at them is not really productive.

I think it's just frustration speaking.

What you said is easier said than done, teens aren't the most efficient creatures and it's not "cool" to go to a meeting to talk with teachers on how to better educate the class. The teachers might just be down on the kids, "they don't want to learn" etc they might think if they did try to organised such a thing the teens wouldn't turn up to it.

Everything you said makes it sound like lollipops and rainbows or an overly nice counselor, just sit in a big group and talk it out but it never goes that way ... it always descends into arguments and accusations.

As somebody who tried voicing my concerns through the SRC at my school, we were just blown off - either we didn't know what we were saying because we were kids, or they'd pull something at out of our records and go "hey! you're a screw up, you can't be right!" and tell us to go away. That was just when we could get them to pretend to listen to us in the first place.

OT: This kid is just frustrated at one of those teachers who hands out massive stacks of worksheets, and baby sits the class until the bell rings. They always would get pissed if a kid asked any questions, which made the whole thing pretty pointless.

manic_depressive13:
Yes, studies have shown repeatedly that encouraging student participation and showing enthusiasm is far more conducive to learning than just making them copy information or listen to a teacher giving a speech. Students are also more likely to be motivated and learn if they feel like their teacher actually cares about them.

That said teachers are overworked and underpaid. They are often severely restricted in what and how they teach even though there is no reason not to give some flexibility within parameters, which has also been shown to correlate negatively with motivation. They are often the scapegoats when students do poorly, when the real problem is lack of resources due to an underfunded public education system.

So I'm not going to call the kid a hero. It's very likely she knows she's not doing a good job but doesn't give a fuck because of how under-valued, under-paid and unrewarding her shitty fucking job is.

Agreed. Our public school system is a sham. The boy may not be a hero, but he definitely has a point. Even with under paid teachers the students should be getting more than simple packets.

OT: Saw this on Facebook last night. Not sure why it got so popular.

If it's Duncanville HS in TX, according to children at risk the school is ranked 969 / 1171. My guess is the teacher is a permanent sub rather than an actual teacher. The school I taught at is ranked even lower and the English department only has a couple real teachers and the rest are just paid subs because they need a warm body in the room. I understand the frustration- it goes both ways- but it takes very resilient and dedicated people to teach kids like Jeff.

I am not going to say much just I am very bitter towards the elementary and high school systems. I got screwed over A LOT by them and their bullshit. I know a lot of you likely think I was likely just some trouble maker kid but I was the quite day dreamer type.

What it comes down too is most teachers require little education, they get insanely good time off, make great money (at least here) and they don't have to answer to the people they screw over. That leads to piss poor teaching with people who become teachers cause they don't give a crap about what they do any they want a easy time. Some of the best teachers I had were the least qualified to teach their subjects but they were good cause they actually gave a fuck, while others would sit at their desk and just say read the note book and refuse to help. I had teachers so bad they can't teach anymore for attacking grade 2 students with desks and teachers that took grudges on students and would mark biased (personally tested). All the while the school board would do jack all about problems with teachers and expel any students that came into question.

The whole system needs to be dumped on its head honestly not even for just the teachers the methods make little sense too.

My family is full of teachers. They are over worked and underpaid here in the USA but that doesn't excuse handing out packets of work and sitting there are your computer looking at yahoo news for 8 hours a fucking day.

All my relatives that are teachers are passionate about their jobs. They love teaching and every year their kids love them and go away with knowledge in their brain because they made learning fun and exciting. Certain subjects like math may not be exciting no matter which way you cut it but literature/history and science can be FUN if the teacher just gave a damn.

Don't become a teacher if you're just going to babysit kids for a few hours. Even with those stupid state mandated tests, I once had a teacher that made the class insanely fun and STILL taught the test material. We all aced that test. It's not impossible.

That person is a bit of a douche. I'm recently out of school and I hated those kids who thought they knew better than the teacher, and thought that their way of learning was better than the way of learning given by the teacher, who had been trained to do it. Newsflash, just because you don't learn that way doesn't mean other people don't. There were people in my school who assumed that because they learned better one way, they should be taught that way regardless of how the other people worked.
Personally, I work better when I'm working on something on my own. Teachers talking up at the front and frequently engaging with the class really put me off.
Also, teachers (at least here in the UK) get really poor time off and really low pay. Also parents also call them/email them to complain or talk about the most inane things. A few people in my family, including my mum, are teachers and they have barely any free time due to parents and the schoolwork taking up so much time.

manic_depressive13:
Yes, studies have shown repeatedly that encouraging student participation and showing enthusiasm is far more conducive to learning than just making them copy information or listen to a teacher giving a speech. Students are also more likely to be motivated and learn if they feel like their teacher actually cares about them.

That said teachers are overworked and underpaid. They are often severely restricted in what and how they teach even though there is no reason not to give some flexibility within parameters, which has also been shown to correlate negatively with motivation. They are often the scapegoats when students do poorly, when the real problem is lack of resources due to an underfunded public education system.

So I'm not going to call the kid a hero. It's very likely she knows she's not doing a good job but doesn't give a fuck because of how under-valued, under-paid and unrewarding her shitty fucking job is.

Didn't consider that, and I can sympathize.

But I feel like you can still engage students within the current system, there's a bad system, and giving up, I don't know the full situation so I can't say definitively about the teacher, but worksheets are par for the course, at least in my New England public education.

While the guy may well be a total tool, hes right. If a teacher uses a "hands off" style with teaching, its going to fail spectacularly. I see this kind of shit constantly with Coaches who had to teach something in addition to being a coach. They don't put any effort into it, and anyone who doesn't naturally pick it is up is fucked. I was a lucky one, I may have had a lot of teachers like....that, but I also had some fantastic teachers with pride and passion for their subject. A couple of my history teachers, an English teacher, and a Physics teacher come to mind. They loved what they taught, and that meant they knew more about their subjects and could better explain things to those who didn't know.

Now I know teachers may have it rough, but that is no excuse for a lot of crap I see "teachers" pull.

I was lucky. Every teacher I had in junior high and high school actually cared.

And I was homeschooled in elementary, which I don't regret at all.

That said, I think the student is right, but not IN the right. He should be voicing his concerns to the teacher outside of class, not making a scene. Sure, everyone's on his side NOW, but guess what'll happen if he tries this again at a workplace. (Hint: Fired. He'll be fired. And possibly blacklisted.)

And to those saying "they never listen": You're right, they never listen to a small group of three or four people who always complain. You could just have a vendetta, as no one else seems to have issues.

However, in my post-secondary school, where any given student is guaranteed to fall through the cracks if they make a complaint, we had a problem with the instructor and didn't feel we were getting the material we needed. After three or four complaints were brushed off, all eighteen of us finally just walked to the head of the department's office one lunch hour. THAT worked.

I think he didn't need to disrupt the whole class in order to express that. I also know that it's incredibly difficult to personally engage each and every student in a class of 20+ students. I can't comment more on that since I don't know what that teacher's teaching method is.

I respect the way he controlled his anger. You could hear the rage in his voice, but he tried to compose himself well. It was still an outburst, but I imagine it'd been stewing for quite some time, and for more reasons than just this teacher.

I also understand his position and the position of his teacher. She probably gets treated like shit every day. She might have cared once, but quickly became disillusioned with the teaching process. We treat our teachers like shit in this country, from the students to the government. We don't even educate our teachers to teach properly. That said, I agree with him too. Obviously if you're not engaging your students, especially in an inner-city environment, then they will not learn as well or become motivated about their future.

also

Oh yes, he definitely has a point. I'll take history as an example, the periods in my life where I've learned the most in history class has been with teachers who have been excitet about the subject. The place where I learnt the most about history however? A program on channel 4 in Sweden about swedish history. The professor who explained stuff in every episode was engaged and loved what he was doing, and you could tell.

People who are in a teaching position need to have some form of charisma. This can come from a love of the subject or from other things like subtle humor. The most important thing is to not let students get bored, because that's when they stop learning.

I think the whole education system is utterly flawed myself.

University, and the marks I've gotten so far, show a marked difference between the modules where learning is primarily practically-based, and the modules where we are talked at for two hours.

Talking at people does not educate them. Talking to them does. Another good way to learn? Let people get stuck in and break stuff. I've learned a great deal about coding, for example, by messing about with code and seeing what happens if you change a variable, or delete a variable, or move stuff around. Even more useful? When I hit a problem and say "This isn't working," having someone talk through with me and get me to consider why it isn't working. If I find the problem myself, and work out the solution myself, I am less likely to make that mistake again.

I know you can't apply this technique to everything. There's only one right way to spell a word in English, only one correct answer to 17 * 45, etc. but the core ideas can carry through to a lot of areas of education. If you want people to do better at English you don't tell them to read Shakespeare until their eyes bleed; you tell them to read. You tell them to find something that they like, and then you can start to steer their way of thinking. Why do you like this? Why does it draw you in? What techniques can you see in this work? How is language used? Can you see this in other materials?

But sitting in a class and talking at people? That won't educate them. It'll bore them to death, but it won't educate.

manic_depressive13:
Yes, studies have shown repeatedly that encouraging student participation and showing enthusiasm is far more conducive to learning than just making them copy information or listen to a teacher giving a speech. Students are also more likely to be motivated and learn if they feel like their teacher actually cares about them.

That said teachers are overworked and underpaid. They are often severely restricted in what and how they teach even though there is no reason not to give some flexibility within parameters, which has also been shown to correlate negatively with motivation. They are often the scapegoats when students do poorly, when the real problem is lack of resources due to an underfunded public education system.

So I'm not going to call the kid a hero. It's very likely she knows she's not doing a good job but doesn't give a fuck because of how under-valued, under-paid and unrewarding her shitty fucking job is.

Im going with this too, I was a student once, I had bad teachers, ok teachers and good teachers. The bad ones were noticeble when you finished the year and couldnt think of a thing that you just learned with him and the good ones were the ones where their classes were cool to go to and by the end of the year you could see that your knowladge actually had some progress. The ok teachers vary a lot with the ones that just seem to be there and dont give attention but still manage to teach one thing or two each day and the ones that are all cool and shit but never really do all that much teaching.

SlaveNumber23:
He may be right about the teacher being incompetent, but it seems to me that this kid was doing the wrong thing in class, talking/distracting other students/on his phone etc and then throws a tantrum when he gets called out on it. I knew a kid who did this several times in classes throughout middle and high school and it annoyed the hell out of me because his behavior was more of a detriment to our learning than the teacher's incompetence.

He has a point but in my eyes he isn't arguing that point because he gives a shit about any of the other kids, he argues it for his own selfish reasons, reasoning that the teacher kicked him out of class because the teacher is incompetent, not that he was being disruptive or doing the wrong thing. He is not a hero, he is a drama queen.

Actually, she kicked him out simply because he asked her "why don't we get as much time for the test as your other classes?" and she said "stop your bitching", which set him off.

That is an atrocious response and totally understandable in inciting some anger. Again, not the best course of action on his part, but at least the catalyst to the whole situation wasn't retarded. I honestly think he DOES care about the other students, based on the way he composes himself.

DoPo:
Oh...one of those guys. I think they are called..."teenagers", yeah. Fight the Power, fight the Man, erm, man. Preach it, brother! Don't let the fact that what you're saying is in no way what, like, half the teenagers have been saying all the time, complete with the snarky, passive-aggressive tone and everything, you, my friend, you are the real thing - the voice of the generation and the messiah of students. Allelujah!

OK, the problem isn't that he's saying generic things a lot of others have been saying, it's the way he's saying them. Namely, how a lot of others have been saying them. He takes an antagonistic stance - they are the teachers and we are the students - two opposing camps. Instead of, you know, trying to work things out properly - join a student committee if there is one, otherwise make one and work with the teachers to make matters better. Ranting at them is not really productive.

He was a drop out who has since returned to school. You don't think he might be a bit frustrated with the shitty system he is being forced though? He stated that the teacher had previously made comments to the effect that "I'm only here because I need money." How are you going to get anyone to care about anything you're trying to teach them? He probably could have tried to discuss this with the teacher, but how nonchallant she sounds about everything, I can't imagine she would care much.

Dear everyone who is siding with the teacher.

A teacher is someone who teaches. Someone who hands out packets of paper is a postman.

Complaining about a problem can draw attention to it and force a resolution (as seen in the districts response). Not complaining about a problem allows the problem to continue.

The end.

I was pretty lucky with awesome teachers my whole schooling. Teachers have a lot more freedom here in Canada, but they don't always try too hard. Especially in rural regions, teachers can get really fucking lazy. They do their minimum 9-3 days handing out government supplied packet courses while 3 hours of that is spent in the staff break room. And these are teachers with a lot of freedom for making lesson plans. They just choose to keep their thumbs up their asses and collect their pension cheques after 40 years.

Ya, teachers in Canada have it pretty well off nowadays, but I still think we should be throwing more money at our education. More education usually pertains to a stronger society. Children should be in school every month of the year, less importance put on grades, and more teachers for smaller class sizes. But try telling that to tradition.

Korolev:
My mother always said that 9/10, it's the student's fault for not paying attention, and no, it really isn't the teacher's fault that the kid doesn't want to learn. I've seen good teachers try to get kids motivated, but very often the kids don't care. They just don't. Why? Because their parents never put even the slightest pressure on them to do well.

The things is it's the teachers job to teach, that's what they're payed to do. Certainly from the student's perspective taking responsibility for their own learning is good but the teacher is payed to ensure they learn if the student is doing badly then the teacher isn't doing his job.

He's definitely correct in his observations, and I respect the fact that he is intelligent enough to realize those things. On the other hand, the life of a public school teacher can be fucking miserable, and the kid was being a bit of an asshat. So.....

I really like his hair?

Teacher here.

The kid is mostly right, and there are some terrible teachers out there. That said, he's clearly grandstanding, and I'd love to know the background here. i.e. does the teacher really do worksheet after worksheet? Is the kid regularly disruptive and this is an attempt to avoid being sent out for the Xth time? Who knows? However, I personally never sit down while class is in session. Even if I give out worksheets, I'm walking around helping people with them.

That said, many administrations and districts make it miserable. When I was a new teacher on initial probation (as the only 7th grade English teacher for a rather small school), my principal had me doing everything in the text (English text books are miserable excuses for literature) and spending at least a week a quarter (1 week out of 9) on practice standardized testing. This left virtually no time for anything that wasn't "read this story, answer those questions, rinse, repeat". It was at least as miserable for me as it was for the students.

I ended off blowing him off a bit and doing far more interesting things the rest of the year. Principal hated me, and though he wrote me a great letter of rec for all the stuff I created for the class and how I engaged kids, did not want me back the next year. Even though, as it turns out, our standardized English scores for the school went up 24 points.

TL;DR Crappy teachers exist, but are occasionally crappy due to their crappy administrations (which to be fair, are often crappy due to educational policies passed by crappy politicians and underfunded by crappy tax cuts).

My first and second History teachers in Secondary school were amazing. They'd explain and act out how things happened. They taught the subject with such passion that it was hard not to feel that way and be engaged. I fucking loved History. Then they left, one after the other, and we ended up having a New Zealander who would just right masses of text up onto the whiteboard for us to copy out and then we'd have to work on our own. Naturally, we didn't learn an awful lot from that :/

Then again, my school was the second worst in it's Burrough, and the teacher turnover whilst I was there was around 50 in total (over 5/6 years).

Do we have to pick sides? Can't we say this is a problem caused by people on both sides?

The student was being disruptive and when called out on it, spouted some obviously bullshit lines in an attempt to either save their own ass, or to attempt to make the teacher look stupid to the rest of the class.

The teacher, if the student's reports are true, was the kind of teacher that did not care at all about their job. And so probably, if it's true, deserved some of it.

The kid was a lazy ass, and the teacher might possibly be incompetent. Blaming one side while absolving the other side of all responsibility just because you can sympathize with that side is fucking stupid.

I've both taught 4th grade, and volunteered as an assistant (at the same school, and even the same class, only taught the second half of that school year).

Volunteering is WAY more effective because you can work with individual students while the teacher monitors the class (or the other way around). The real solution to improve classrooms drastically? Have 2 adults per classroom. The second adult does not need to be as well trained, have teaching credentials etc. In fact, you could even pay slightly above minimum wage for college students etc that are working towards being a teacher etc. Have it be part of the requirements to get your teaching credentials.

When I had to take over the class myself, I had almost 30 students that I was in charge of. I went from being able to work with each individual student and help them with their progress, to having to spend 95% of my time organizing my class (especially the first 2 weeks).

When I took over the class, the previous teacher did not have assigned seating and actually bribed the students to get them to behave. It took 2 weeks for me to figure out how to get the class organized (Assigned seating was key), and eventually get the students to a point where I didn't have to constantly monitor them and spend all my energy on classroom management.

At that point I finally started to be able to teach and work with individual students sometimes. Still not nearly as much as when I was volunteering though...which was a real shame. After that I monitored and volunteered in other classrooms and I observed a huge range in classroom management skills. It's amazing how many teachers spend most of their energy just "baby sitting" the class, or keeping the class occupied by talking to them etc, and not actually teaching. I have seen many great teachers as well, but they are by far the minority. Of the 30+ teachers I observed at all grade levels, I would say maybe 4 really stood out as exceptional. About twice that were just plain horrible (no questions allowed in class, no talking at all, constant testing, and study from the books with no direct interaction with the teacher etc). The majority fell between those two ranges though...with teachers who were still trying at least, but had either given up on using their own lesson plans (were just having students prepare for standardized tests and following pre-set lesson plans), or just didn't have the ability to really engage a class.

Most of the newer, young teachers seemed more motivated. The requirements to teach in California where I live are much harder now then in the past, and most people do not consider teaching as a lucrative career, so perhaps the newer generation of teachers are more likely to be passionate about teaching, more motivated, and even better prepared and trained. Some of the older teachers were the worst by far, but then again, many of the best teachers were also older (not all though). It could partially just be that many teachers burn out after 10+ years of teaching and changes in requirements etc.

There is no easy fix, especially when many teaching positions are being lost, and in most cases, the newer teachers with less seniority are the ones being let go. Obviously teachers who actually want to be teaching and still believe they can make a difference are the best choice, but right now those teachers are often rare, and quite often the first to be fired due to budget cuts.

I'm mostly retired at this point, and don't need to worry about income, so to me the answer is obvious, just volunteer. I make a much larger difference that way, and that opens up another teaching job for someone who needs it. To solve the big problems though would require a redistribution of resources. Taking the focus less away from administration, and more towards the teachers themselves, and assistants for those teachers. Each class should have 2 adults, but the classes could then be increased to a full 30 (many already are...but they are not supposed to be over 20 currently). Two adults in a class of 30 are going to be WAY more effective then 1 adult in a class of 20. In addition, increase the availability of volunteers by giving credit to volunteers in college (working on an education degree? One of the classes could involve volunteering instead of just observing like they are now). Perhaps have people who are on unemployment insurance be required to volunteer x amount of hours a week as well (still leaving plenty of time to search for jobs) etc.

There are ways to solve the problem, those are just a few random ideas. The current system is broken for the most part though. Of my 4th grade students only about 6 were near grade level when I took over, and many were not even able to add and subtract without using their fingers, let alone do long division. The solution of one of the teachers I talked to when I brought the problem up to her (for one of her students) was to give him a sheet with multiplication tables on it so he could use it to do the long division homework. That is exactly why so many students were moving forward without being able to do what they should have learned 2-3 years ago.

Personally I say fire ALL teachers, and then rehire them, starting from scratch. Hire monitors that randomly observe the classes, and only keep the teachers who are actively teaching and inspiring their students. Overhaul the administration system big time as well, drastically reducing how much money is going into administration to make room for more teachers. Meanwhile up the minimum teachers can make, and reduce the maximum by an equal amount (make min at least 35k at this point, and max twice that).

Then we might at least start to solve the problems we have with our education system. That still leaves the whole problem of students themselves respecting their teachers and focusing on learning (a responsibility of both the students and parents). Most other countries have far better education systems partially due to the students respecting teachers and focusing on learning. That is a problem we can not easily fix even with drastic changes to our school system.

I don't think anyone can argue that ultimately he has a good point, it's more about how he handled the situation.

Doing that's not really a mature way to get your point across situationally. BUT if he raised the issue with the school staff they would have brushed off what he had to say as soon as he was out of the room. By making a spectacle of it he got it posted online and now it's gotten out to over 100,000 people. As far as I'm concerned he did alright.

I've seen this floating around, too. I don't see why everyone's going nuts over it since all he's doing is repeating what every teenager has already said. I said shit like that and I do still believe it in adult life.

He's right, that much is clear but what's most unfortunate is the class' reaction to him. I think they called him a baby at the end of the video? They should have said something, I think. If they agreed, they should have said something. If they disagreed, they should have said something.

Sure, maybe the guy was being an idiot. Sure, maybe his opinions are obvious and yeah, he said it kinda badly but... Well, maybe he wasn't taught these things by a teacher that cared. I had to teach myself most of this shit, too. I've never met a teacher who actually cared all that much except for once, in college. From my experience teachers care as much as their pay allows. Not to say teachers aren't over worked or unable to give the support they want to, I'm just speaking from experience.

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