Girlfriend Zone!

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Lil devils x:
I think this article is pretty spot on for many. Although I don't find that the men stop once you tell them that you consider them to be a brother, a family member rather than someone you are sexually attracted to. They often get worse, with leters, flowers and gifts like you are somehow going to change your mind. It isn't just a "girlfriend zone" they profess undying love, that you are their soul mate and the marriage proposals are unbearable. The worst part is they hang on to this idea that " maybe someday things will change" even while you are in relationship with someone else and the second a relationship doesn't work out you feel as though the vultures are swooping down on you. Literally the very same week you break up with someone you have every guy you know asking you out at once and telling you that they have all had feelings for you for a long time and it is just creepy to be honest that they were only trying to be close to you in hopes that you have sex with them some day.

This is one of the biggest issues with younger people and I bet it has something to do with movies and the ideal relationship bullshit they get people to believe. I don't expect someone I show interest in to think I want them for life and both sexes do this and it is equally creepy. Peoples assumptions of how to act or what is going on are what just create these issues. I have a friend who is female and sure she is cute but far different then me personality wise so I am not interested. She was super depressed for about 2 weeks so I made her some gluten free brownies(she has that thing where she needs gluten free) since she would kill for chocolate stuff then started to act weird like I wanted to get into her pants heck I ate half the brownies that was worth the time baking them. Like I said with my previous post if people would be more blunt and quit assuming stuff or in a guys case take a damn hint and move on these issues would stop turning into train wrecks. For me a woman who is stuck in the gender roles idea or thinks life is some movie/show romance it is a huge turn off I am not Romeo.

minimacker:
I can totally see why someone would feel this way. It's not as much as "he only sees her as a girlfriend" and more "We get along so damn well, we're always doing stuff together and we make each other happy", but when you then get rejected, they feel like the girl was only putting on a show. She didn't actually feel comfortable with you, she was just faking it. She doesn't want companionship with you.

TL;DR They feel like you're her entourage, not her equal.

If you were in that moment, this is probably what would be going through your head.

Edit: I think a lot of guys also want to know the cold hard facts. Feelings are out of the window at that moment. Am I not a very attractive guy? Am I boring? Too shy? Too outgoing? Trying to spare their feelings is a shitty way of doing it.

Getting along so well still doesn't mean that the girl is also attracted to them in a romantic/sexual way. Even if they're good looking that might still not be the case. Girls, or at least I, don't see 'getting along very well' as a guarantee to also take the next step. Well, like I said in a previous post I at least said yes to guys that have asked me out to see where things would lead, even if I didn't see them as boyfriend material at that time.

I think a large part of the problem is that girls are very hard to figure out for guys. And that the difference between 'a girl being nice to you' and 'a girl liking you and being interested in something more' can be difficult to discern. Still, I see it as a 'get over it' thing. She didn't want to date you, tough luck you can still be friends. It's how I've dealt with guys that rejected me.

sanquin:
So a guy needs time to 'get over a girl' even if there was never anything between them other than a friendship and a one-sided crush from his side? Sounds really immature to me. I get needing time to 'get over' an ex girlfriend, but not a friend that you just asked out and she said no.

I think it can be assumed that the guy just did the whole friendship thing to actually GET closer, and once that factor is out of the way, it becomes pointless. It's even worse than just people being whiny:
they treat you solely as a potential mate, and you're "not good for anything else" (dunno if that was already mentioned in the thread - but from what I've seen, it's pretty much how a lot of guys see it - with a little less negative connotation to it, though)

sanquin:

generals3:
Or it's simply because they find it easier to get over them by taking distance? Why assume the worst.

So a guy needs time to 'get over a girl' even if there was never anything between them other than a friendship and a one-sided crush from his side? Sounds really immature to me. I get needing time to 'get over' an ex girlfriend, but not a friend that you just asked out and she said no.

However I welcome your post. As it shows the problem from the male thinking point, just like the blog post in the OP tried to point out. Guys complain about the friendzone so much and how bad it is. Yet they never try to see it from the girl's side. As in "Why can't I just be nice to a guy for once, without him asking me out and eventually avoiding me because I rejected that offer?"

If I've learned anything from being on these forums on this subject, it's that women are not making any more of an effort to understand the other side than men are.

Not that the sides here are gender-based of course. Because they aren't.

Rainforce:
I think it can be assumed that the guy just did the whole friendship thing to actually GET closer, and once that factor is out of the way, it becomes pointless. It's even worse than just people being whiny:
they treat you solely as a potential mate, and you're "not good for anything else" (dunno if that was already mentioned in the thread - but from what I've seen, it's pretty much how a lot of guys see it - with a little less negative connotation to it, though)

That's what I've been saying. Those are the people I hate. Becoming a girl's friend and such for the sole reason of trying to hook up with her.

Mr Cwtchy:
If I've learned anything from being on these forums on this subject, it's that women are not making any more of an effort to understand the other side than men are.

Not that the sides here are gender-based of course. Because they aren't.

In this case, there are two sides. Men don't understand women, women don't understand men. Any attempts to understand each other in the past have failed, no matter how much effort was put into it.

I know that this is satire but it's depressingly true as well...

It sucks when you see a female friend that's oblivious to most of her male friends' being "friends" with her with the sole intention of getting in her pants.

P.S Please don't turn this into yet another sexism thread. That train has long past. Or at least until Sterling needs more views for all that admoney.

We speak of emotional maturity? What of the selfishness and borderline manipulation of any person who willingly maintains friendship with someone who expressed interest in more? Good on any person who breaks from such a treacherous relationship, knowing their emotions are not to be toyed with by someone who doesn't respect their well being enough to consider the power they now hold over them. And they have the gall to complain about them only wanting sex? Not accepting that their genuine friendship was a foundation where real emotions actually grew beyond what they wanted? Because we cannot accept that emotional affections are often coupled with physical intimacy?

So quick to condemn, especially those that condemn you for the same.

The satire failed miserably because it is the epitome of the first world problems that the rejected wish they could experienced from the mouth of the rejecter. Once again their emotions are treated as childish, immature and perverted; when they should have done the "right thing" and considered the preferences of the chooser. That they must someone respect the choices and lack of attraction the other has; while the other is required to what? Maintain the level of elevation they have over the other?

It is not satire; it is pouring salt within the wounds of those that were bound by the wills of their hearts.

And why? Because you want them to understand why you are hurt? And you method of doing so is making fun of why and how they are hurt? I have no shame enough to give you.

Autotelic:

IceForce:

I don't understand people who say the friendzone doesn't exist.
It's quite possible for someone to reject someone else as a relationship partner, but still accept them as a friend.

Since this phenomenon DOES exist, then by extension, the friendzone exists too.

I think that people don't object quite so much to the 'technical' definition of 'the friendzone', but rather to the connotations attached to it. We do all agree that sometimes, one person will reject their admirer because they only want to be friends.

The thing is, the term carries a lot of additional meaning. There's a tone of entitlement attached to it - "I'm such a nice guy, but girls still won't put out; girls only like jerks; I'm totally friendzoned." It would be humorously ironic if it weren't such a dangerous sentiment due to the somewhat misogynistic assumptions attached to it. I know a fair number of guys who hear other guys complaining about being friendzoned, and it has warped their perceptions of how to interact with women. It's completely unfair to expect someone to enter a relationship with you just because you're being nice to them, and yet not only has this expectation come to exist, the people holding that expectation actually seem to feel victimised by their rejection.

It's not the term itself that people object to - it's this warped view of relationships that people are seeking to debunk.

I was going to respond and then you swooped in like a hero to do my job for me. Good Good.
This. You are friends. Or not friends. The Zone is a lie, a verbal tac-on to get a victimization slant on the affair.
And that is what pisses people off, not the act or the description of the act. But even then I argue that the two state of being, are; friends or not friends. There are branches within those two but this mythical zone has never had anything attached to it that wasn't a whining douche nozzle crying about how he or she were nice to someone and were denied their promised reward. Like Mario expecting cake from Peach after every kidnapping. <Crickets>

Anyway moving on from that negativity, Anything I have to say about this matter was said in the 1-month ago thread. If anyone's memory is failing them, get their reading glasses on and have at you.

I dunno its all a thing of mind set, I'm a guy and I have a much easier time being friends with girls than guys, a number of my female friends tried to have the friendzone talk with me when we started getting close, it was a long and painstaking process to explain to them that I was not in fact interested, at the same time I have been in the situation where I started to develop feelings for one of my closest friends, made me erratic and confrontational not fun, the friend zone more than anything is a mindset, it is a way to rail against unrequited love, its a painful place to be in, and most people have been there some people get angry with the person they perceived have friendzoned them and that is unreasonable, but a lot of people are just angry with the position they are in and need a way to express that, and I don't know if that's a necessarily bad thing

We get a lot of `But being friendzoned hurts!`.
Yes, I'm sure it hurts.
Nobody is trying to say that it doesn't.

But it isn't exactly all butterflies and rainbows on the other side of it either.
I especially am not great at making friends, I'm pretty shy.
Losing a friend because they imagined that I was somehow the `one for them`, without any input from me, was very hurtful.
And you get a lot of `But girls just date jerks instead!`.
The guy I `friendzoned` (by never responding to a second-hand confession), said my boyfriend at the time was a jerk.
He'd never met him.
They'd never even been in the same room.
Why, I wonder, would somebody who had been rejected feel the need to make up things like `but they are dating a jerk!`.
Perhaps to get sympathy.

I realize the post was satire, but this happens to me every now and then. And it sucks, because you don't want to hurt their feelings, but you really do just see them as a friend.

Phasmal:
Why, I wonder, would somebody who had been rejected feel the need to make up things like `but they are dating a jerk!

Eh. The "other man" or "other woman" is always a jerk. I've never met my ex's husband, but I will remained convinced until the day I die that the man is an utter bastard. He could be pulling a bag of puppies out of a house fire and I'd still despise him. "Jerk", after all, is an entirely subjective and relative label. We're all someone's jerk.

OT: At least, I think it's OT:

Having someone view you only as a friend when you fancied a romance hurts, and is awful.

Having someone view you as a romantic prospect when you thought they were a platonic friend, and then that person disappears into the ether because their kindness was actually courting, hurts and is awful.

Alas, in neither situation does the other person OWE you anything. Friendships are not inherently more noble than romantic relationships, nor visa versa. Expecting someone to subdue romantic feelings for the sake of a friendship is silly (and unwise, if they say yes they are almost certainly lying and laying in wait for a later opportunity) and no less fundamentally unfair than expecting someone to abruptly find you sexually appealing just because you showed them basic human kindness.

People don't always hook up. Romance is hard. If it was easy, the poets wouldn't be so hot on it. They'd write about something else instead. Like...fishing. Or Badminton.

sanquin:
In this case, there are two sides. Men don't understand women, women don't understand men. Any attempts to understand each other in the past have failed, no matter how much effort was put into it.

I think that position is too biased; we mostly see the negative side, but I know enough people for whom it works just fine.

Rainforce:

I think it can be assumed that the guy just did the whole friendship thing to actually GET closer, and once that factor is out of the way, it becomes pointless. It's even worse than just people being whiny:
they treat you solely as a potential mate, and you're "not good for anything else" (dunno if that was already mentioned in the thread - but from what I've seen, it's pretty much how a lot of guys see it - with a little less negative connotation to it, though)

First of all it shouldn't be assumed the friendship thing happened to get closer. It happens quite often that friendship makes romantic feelings pop up. But even if we assumed the friendship was there to get closer, what's wrong with that? Now sure the extremely wrong way you phrased it makes it sound bad. The whole "you're not good for anything else" isn't accurate at all. It is simply that most people don't like to constantly hang out with others who don't have the same romantic feelings for them, it can make the "getting over" process much harder than it has to be. And than let's take a deeper look at the "tactic" of becoming friends to get closer. What's wrong with wanting to know someone better and let that person let you know better before putting yourself in the situation which will get you judged as a potential romantic partner. Don't we all say the "interior" is also very important? Who the fuck would have the pretense to claim they can judge someone's personality after one or two dates. There is nothing wrong with using a tactic which minimizes the odds of you being "misjudged". On top of that it may make you realize the person you wanted to have a relationship with isn't actually the right person for you.

cant we all just finally understand that human relationships arent binary and that all this friendzone BS is just furthering everyone's conflicting expectations? women are not genetically wired to want to f**k everything that is attractive to them like men are, and its perfectly healthy to want someone of the opposite sex (or same, or whatever one you like) to hang out with without a cloud of sexual tension hanging over you all the time.

now this bit is just personal experience and observation, but it seems to me women have guy friends to avoid needless drama, something that relationships and other female friends are full of, probably developed from a self-understanding that men seem to lack. listen here guys; it would do you some real good to get a lesbian friend who is physically attractive to you, so you might develop the same control and understanding. you might even come to realize that sometimes just having fun with a girl and being content at that brings you far more happiness than all the tension and drama of a relationship ever could. no need for forced bravado and tiny lies of omission, no little instinctual tingle in the back of your head viewing friends as competition... having a female friend and only friend is actually wonderfully UNstressful once you stop looking at fairytale happily-ever-afters as the key to happiness.

Dogstile:

Ratties:
Well I don't make friends with girls because I think it's pointless. Alright if I just want to hang out and have a good time, I will do it with other guys. Let me be blunt about this. Think girls can be fun to hang out with as well. Find the idea of a girl just wanting to be just a friend kind of harsh. Likes everything about me. All we do all day is joke around and have a good time. Know that there is a part of every guy that knows that she thinks you are not attractive enough to date. Never tell you that. If that is not case, heres another. If you are just a back up guy she has around in case all the other guys don't work out. Got to say that it makes me sound like a insecure asshole. A girl would just say, "hey I am not attracted to you, do you want to be friends?" Know it's harsh, the truth hurts.

You know what would be awesome? If people stopped blaming the other person for their insecurities. You think you're a backup guy? Ask her, its not her fault you're insecure. Don't think you're attractive enough to date? Look at every fat dude with a girlfriend ever.

You know what I did when I had those thoughts? I talked about them. Now i'm actually dating her. Funny how talking to the other person about it without blaming them doesn't push them away if you're not being a whiny twat about it.

E: In fact, this entire thread could be resolved really quickly if people just got over their own mental hangups. The girl doesn't owe you shit, the guy doesn't owe you shit. Blaming them for not satisfying your urge is bullshit because its your urge, not theirs.

Well after reading two messages about this, I didn't read yours. After all, the first two pretty much said the same thing you wrote

"Girls only go for attractive guys" will come up at some point. I will counter this preemptively by pointing out how guys who complain about this only seem to go for pretty girls or in the same breathe will make fun of a fat girl. Just, goddamn, can we end the thread now?

Dogstile:

Ratties:
Well I don't make friends with girls because I think it's pointless. Alright if I just want to hang out and have a good time, I will do it with other guys. Let me be blunt about this. Think girls can be fun to hang out with as well. Find the idea of a girl just wanting to be just a friend kind of harsh. Likes everything about me. All we do all day is joke around and have a good time. Know that there is a part of every guy that knows that she thinks you are not attractive enough to date. Never tell you that. If that is not case, heres another. If you are just a back up guy she has around in case all the other guys don't work out. Got to say that it makes me sound like a insecure asshole. A girl would just say, "hey I am not attracted to you, do you want to be friends?" Know it's harsh, the truth hurts.

You know what would be awesome? If people stopped blaming the other person for their insecurities. You think you're a backup guy? Ask her, its not her fault you're insecure. Don't think you're attractive enough to date? Look at every fat

dude with a girlfriend ever.

You know what I did when I had those thoughts? I talked about them. Now i'm actually dating her. Funny how talking to the other person about it without blaming them doesn't push them away if you're not being a whiny twat about it.

E: In fact, this entire thread could be resolved really quickly if people just got over their own mental hangups. The girl doesn't owe you shit, the guy doesn't owe you shit. Blaming them for not satisfying your urge is bullshit because its your urge, not theirs.

"Girls only go for attractive guys" will come up at some point. I will counter this preemptively by pointing out how guys who complain about this only seem to go for pretty girls or in the same breathe will make fun of a fat girl. Just, goddamn, can we end the thread now?

Dogstile:

Ratties:
Well I don't make friends with girls because I think it's pointless. Alright if I just want to hang out and have a good time, I will do it with other guys. Let me be blunt about this. Think girls can be fun to hang out with as well. Find the idea of a girl just wanting to be just a friend kind of harsh. Likes everything about me. All we do all day is joke around and have a good time. Know that there is a part of every guy that knows that she thinks you are not attractive enough to date. Never tell you that. If that is not case, heres another. If you are just a back up guy she has around in case all the other guys don't work out. Got to say that it makes me sound like a insecure asshole. A girl would just say, "hey I am not attracted to you, do you want to be friends?" Know it's harsh, the truth hurts.

You know what would be awesome? If people stopped blaming the other person for their insecurities. You think you're a backup guy? Ask her, its not her fault you're insecure. Don't think you're attractive enough to date? Look at every fat dude with a girlfriend ever.

You know what I did when I had those thoughts? I talked about them. Now i'm actually dating her. Funny how talking to the other person about it without blaming them doesn't push them away if you're not being a whiny twat about it.

E: In fact, this entire thread could be resolved really quickly if people just got over their own mental hangups. The girl doesn't owe you shit, the guy doesn't owe you shit. Blaming them for not satisfying your urge is bullshit because its your urge, not theirs.

"Girls only go for attractive guys" will come up at some point. I will counter this preemptively by pointing out how guys who complain about this only seem to go for pretty girls or in the same breathe will make fun of a fat girl. Just, goddamn, can we end the thread now?

Well I don't need a strangers advice. All you did was tell me stuff I already know, but thanks.

Lilani:

thaluikhain:
At first that seemed like a satire, but actually, no, that looks like it's just the friendzone from the other person's PoV. As such it's depressing rather than funny.

I kind of felt the same way. Like, I can understand why it would be hard to hang out with someone after they turn you down, and I do think that friendships bring about the strongest and most lasting relationships.

...But at the same time, there can be an element of manipulation involved if the person makes "friends" for the exclusive purpose of getting in a relationship, and then just running away after rejection because they didn't expect or desire any other outcome. Which, unfortunately, is exactly the track for a lot of friend zone situations.

Ratties:
Well I don't make friends with girls because I think it's pointless. Alright if I just want to hang out and have a good time, I will do it with other guys. Let me be blunt about this. Think girls can be fun to hang out with as well. Find the idea of a girl just wanting to be just a friend kind of harsh. Likes everything about me. All we do all day is joke around and have a good time. Know that there is a part of every guy that knows that she thinks you are not attractive enough to date. Never tell you that. If that is not case, heres another. If you are just a back up guy she has around in case all the other guys don't work out. Got to say that it makes me sound like a insecure asshole. A girl would just say, "hey I am not attracted to you, do you want to be friends?" Know it's harsh, the truth hurts.

This makes no sense to me at all. So when you happen to be around girls, do you make a conscious effort to not be friendly to demonstrate you don't want to be around them any more than necessary? I'm friends with a lot of guys, and it didn't happen because I was doing anything unusual. I was just in a situation that they were--like class or anime club or whatever--we were friendly with each other as we normally are, and we became friends. No conscious effort on anybody's part. What would take conscious effort is making a point to avoid these guys. And when we hang out, it's not "Oh dear, there are guys here, now I can't have fun the way I want." It's "Oh, Julia brought along Nick and Ethan. Cool."

You're also making the biggest mistake "friendzoners" make in that you somehow think that because a female enjoys being around you but doesn't want to date, that's cruel because she thinks you're not "hot" enough and that you aren't enough to date her. To be frank, that's just silly, and completely false. Friends just happen. Sure a single female might "size up" a guy to see how much she likes him at any point in the relationship, but being friends isn't some bin you've been relegated to because you're not good enough. It's just what happens when two people get along. It's no different from having guy friends in that respect. You don't decide who your guy friends are by deciding they aren't good enough to share a blood pact with, do you? No? Well, women feel the same. I was friends with my first boyfriend and current boyfriend for MONTHS before I decided I liked either of them. And in both instances, I realized I liked them before they realized they liked me.

I'm not sure what could have happened to you for you to have developed this warped sense of reality when it comes to how women work, but it simply isn't true. The barrier you've built around yourself isn't real. You can continue to think it is if that makes you feel more secure, but all you're doing is losing out on a bunch of great friends and possible relationships because you've decided the asylum you've built in your head feels better than actually treating girls like human beings.

Well I have already gotten 4 other messages about this. All I can say is that yours is probably no different than the rest of them.

Frankster:
"Evolution conditioned our male hominid ancestors to seek nice girls as mates and form friendship bonds only with the other dudes that they hunted mammoths with. It's true-I know this because I studied hominids in my fifth-grade science class."

If i wasnt sure before, thats the part where i knew it was satire xP

Well i got no comment on the matter, im someone who honestly believes the friend zone is an artificial social invention but then again i got a "if it happens it happens, if it doesnt happen then it doesnt happen" attitude vis-a-vis my female friends, i dont understand why its shown to be horrible to be just friends with a girl, as illustrated by this pic:

Ratties:

friendzone photo: friendzone friendzone.jpg

Yes it is better then nothing. Do people here not have female friends? Even if you're thinking with your dick surely some of ya must realize having more female friends means more women in your life to act as part of your social network and gives you a better rep to meet new women.
Unless you're some kinda player who hits on girls whilst going out (i doubt thats the case for most people here) then the way you're going to meet future partners is likely through your social circles, so why people think having a female friend you aren't fucking is a bad thing is just..beyond me.

Well I am not reading these if you guys are all going to post the same stuff.

Zhukov:
Heh.

I kind of want to make fun of it, but it's depressingly accurate.

Hm. One thing that strikes me in regard to this... issue. Can't you "respect someone as a person" and want to get in their pants at the same time? Because I'm pretty sure you can. But it seems to be frequently inferred that that is not the case.

Not respecting someone is how you get into their pants and subsequently occupy that space for a while until you find someone else more deserving of your unrespect.

Das life.

There are several reasons why people end up in the friend zone, but the one I hear about most often is this:
you've tipped the scales of attraction vs comfort to the comfort side. They have become too comfortable with you, and as such, you are no longer deemed "relationship material." You become like a brother. Or a lamp.
Let's just assume for the sake of this post that the concept of friends with benefits does not exist.

image

Take a look at what this man is doing: he is balancing. It's exactly like that. You meet a girl, she thinks you're cute, and the countdown timer begins. Wait too long and the scale shifts: she loses interest and you lose your chance for a while. So, you have to keep inching it in the opposite direction by showing her that you're interested in being more than just friends. Strike while the iron is hot, because that window is closing, and it won't wait around. Be adventurous and flirtatious. Take them out, but don't be there at their beck and call. You're a man, not a dog. You have your own life to live, you have your own problems, and you can't be dealing with somebody else's emotional instability. I'm not saying to treat women like shit, but don't be there to pamper their asses. Think of it like a mystery: the best ones keep you in suspense, they keep you guessing. They never reveal themselves completely. Be like that: intrigue them, make them wanting more.

The friend zone sucks, there's no doubt about that, and while you can look up all of the advice in the world on how to avoid it, it pales in comparison to the actual experience you get from finding yourself in there.

Now for my female readers out there, let me offer you some advice: a lot of guys SUCK at getting the message. Women are trained to let men down gently and vaguely, "I'm not ready for a relationship right now," "I think it's too soon for me," repeat ad nauseam. This gives them the idea that, if they wait around long enough, you'll finally be "ready." Don't do this. Let them know "Hey, I don't like you like that." Is it blunt? Yes. Will it hurt? Most likely, provided they don't have skin made of titanium, but it is far, far better to tell them this way, than to imbue them with the sense of false hope that you will someday be available to them.

I was well and truly told "no" by a girl I was friends with and loved to bits. She knew I liked her more than friends but made it clear friends were all we would ever be.

And we still are, almost ten years on and it's all good! I don't get to see her often due to distance but we stay in touch and occasionally get together to indulge our shared hobbies and interests. Ironically, I went off on a huge rant about being constantly being friend-zoned a few years ago! Thankfully someone kicked me in the nuts (metaphorically) and told me to stop being a twat.

So I did.

I'm not saying that falling for and then asking out a friend is a bad idea but so long as the rejection is civil I can't see why the friendship cannot be sustained. Sure there may be an awkward moment but it passes eventually, trust me!

These threads always seem so weird to me. A lot of people suggests that cross-gender friendships are not viable or at least sub-optimal due to risk of attractions. So how is that supposed to work for bisexuals, are we not supposed to have any friends at all?

To be frank, yes I get attracted to my friends occasionally. I keep it to myself if it could cause problems, but usually people are fine with it. Could be due to being polyamorous, I don't really see attractive people as "Oh, I should totally get it together with that person. Otherwise I won't be getting anything."

And how do the concept of friendzoning work when the person is open to the concept of friends with benifits? Is it worse that they aren't attracted to you then?

Not trying to be judging here, it just looks a bit confusing from my (a bit unconventional) viewpoint.

I think I might be one of the few people to avoid the friendzone all together, because I haven't got the feeling of entitlement that the friendzone requires. I usually check if I like the person first, and if it works as friends, then become close friends and then see what happens. It's worked 3/3 times so far really.

It does help that I only make friends with someone if I care about who they are and what they stand for, usually with a lot in common. I have the innate ability to forget some people are even alive if I can't bring myself to find anything/enough to make them worthy of my attention. This may make me seem to be like an a-social douche-nozzle, but I only have friends I care for, and would fight for if the situation required it. Perhaps even die for if I must. I don't think a lot of people can say the same.[ so, if anyone stumbles upon this who knows me, If I call you a friend, feel honoured :P.]

Perhaps this is just the answer to friendzones, just find people who are similar to you, and hang round those. Instead of making all sorts of "semi-friends" and spreading out interest too thin.
If you're around girls who are similar to you, they'll probably be at least somewhat interested in you too. And if there's a foundation, there can be built upon. Otherwise you have no business being in a relationship with them anyway.

This generation, my generation tends to go for pretty , popular and "easy" , instead of friendly, trustworthy and profound. ( do note that these aren't opposites) This stuff ought to be taught at school. The "How to life Class" I think that could do the entire world good, especially me, myself and I. Especially Moi though.

Hey, I'm a straight guy with plenty of good, platonic female friends, some of which I value more than my male friends. I also try not to make the mistake of leading a girl on when it comes to dating, and under no circumstances will I conceal my actual intentions. In other words, if I wanna go out with a chick, I'll make sure she knows my intentions from the start ( To avoid bullshit like this). It's something I have learned from being put in "the friendzone"; a term that is pathetic, and guys who are in it, are in it because they are pussies and unlikable betas (GENERALIZING HERE, BEAR WITH ME), and can't seem to grow the balls to actually charm a girl; or directly ask her out on a date.

I thought the "friendzone" was just a term for an unfortunate but comical situation a male can find themselves in.

"I wanted to out with her but she firmly placed me in the friendzone." As in a long-term attempt at wooing resulted in no romantic relationship forming.

It's comical because it's unfortunate for the guy but it's hardly an issue worthy of such... debate.

It's "guy slips on banana" kind of funny. A bad thing happened but he'll just get up, brush himself off and move on.

Guys tend to form freidnships with other males far more than women, if a man is showing an interest in a woman there's a high chance he wants to form a romantic relationship. That's just the probability of things. Deal with them.

My take on this whole matter, I blame society and how it teaches us to act around the opposite sex.

As of now, there's a lot a women can learn towards how to act around men. Women know what attracts us, what drives us. They know how we act around other guys. Society has mostly been catered around how to please a man. But when it comes to women? There isn't much clue. Well, women know what they like. But the problem is guys don't. We don't understand their needs, we think they're some type of mysterious creatures that is different from us, and we scratch our heads trying to figure them out.

Truth of the matter is, they're no different from us.

Women know all to well how to attract a man. But the unfortunate thing is men in our society have no clue on how to attract women. Because society hasn't been built up around how to cater to women's desires (since for the longest time; women have been considered the inferior sex), men have no clue on what to do.

I'm going to put it simply. If you want to be more than just friends, you can't come across as just friends. In the end, a relationship is going to involve sex, and if you want a women to want that from you, you have to learn how to attract them that way. The reason the quite essential "jerk" always gets the girl is they're not afraid to want sex from women, nice guys are, so they learn the tricks of the trade on how to attract women faster than the nice guys do.

Now another thing that's bullshitting about our society today are the traditions we still live by. Particularly, men are still suppose to be the gender to make the initiation of approaching a girl. If a girl is drawn to a guy, they can't approach him unless out of fear of coming across as a slut. Guys have to do everything while the girl has to pretend she isn't interested in finding a sexual relationship because that would make her come across as a whore. This is a huge problem because it forces women to keep their thoughts to themselves, and it doesn't allow guys to learn from them.

Anyways... that's my two cents on the matter.

Hazy:

Let's just assume for the sake of this post that the concept of friends with benefits does not exist.

Well the moment you stop seeing sex as a "benefit", that concept ceases to exist. Allow me to elaborate. The "with benefits" part is tacked on to allegedly say "who do something friends generally aren't expected to do". But friends generally aren't expected to do any one specific thing, so any one specific thing can be classified as "benefit" in that regard.

So it's more a rub-it-in-your-face "but still getting laid" thing. So the concept of "friends with benefits" mostly exists so people can tell you they're getting laid without explicitly stating it.

Now for my female readers out there, let me offer you some advice: a lot of guys SUCK at getting the message. Women are trained to let men down gently and vaguely, "I'm not ready for a relationship right now," "I think it's too soon for me," repeat ad nauseam. This gives them the idea that, if they wait around long enough, you'll finally be "ready." Don't do this. Let them know "Hey, I don't like you like that." Is it blunt? Yes. Will it hurt? Most likely, provided they don't have skin made of titanium, but it is far, far better to tell them this way, than to imbue them with the sense of false hope that you will someday be available to them.

Words of wisdom. From your lips into the ear of every single person on the planet and the few who aren't currently on it, hopefully.

generals3:
First of all it shouldn't be assumed the friendship thing happened to get closer. It happens quite often that friendship makes romantic feelings pop up. But even if we assumed the friendship was there to get closer, what's wrong with that? Now sure the extremely wrong way you phrased it makes it sound bad. The whole "you're not good for anything else" isn't accurate at all. It is simply that most people don't like to constantly hang out with others who don't have the same romantic feelings for them, it can make the "getting over" process much harder than it has to be. And than let's take a deeper look at the "tactic" of becoming friends to get closer. What's wrong with wanting to know someone better and let that person let you know better before putting yourself in the situation which will get you judged as a potential romantic partner. Don't we all say the "interior" is also very important? Who the fuck would have the pretense to claim they can judge someone's personality after one or two dates. There is nothing wrong with using a tactic which minimizes the odds of you being "misjudged". On top of that it may make you realize the person you wanted to have a relationship with isn't actually the right person for you.

your perspective is right as well, but I didn't mean this as an actively planned thing - it's just so that subconsciously, you WILL try to get closer via the whole friendship path if you're initially , no matter what. And when the initial attractor fails, you WILL fall off that track.
...
Also screw the rest I was about to write, you're right enough with what you wrote.

I can't hear the satire over the sound of this anvil hitting me in the head.

(yes I know it's writing and you couldn't actually hear writing anyway shut up)

I found a way to avoid the Friendzone myth and any repercussions that would come from complaining about the supposed zone. I just don't talk to anybody unless I have something to say.

Zantos:

SaneAmongInsane:

sanquin:

You're getting me wrong. I'm all for guys at least trying for a relationship if they're attracted to a girl. The problem I have is with the guys that, after being 'friendzoned', they totally alienate themselves from said female friend. As in, the only thing they cared about was getting into that girl's pants. And once they find out that's not possible, they lose interest and stop trying to be friends.

I've been that guy.

I'm disliking all this "Pants" talk though. Every time i've ever gone that route I was seeking out a genuine relationship. Hey, it's difficult. Reach for a brass ring, fall and then still to try to maintain a friendship with that person? That takes a great deal of maturity to move on from that, and not everyone has that in them.

I wouldn't call it maturity so much as practice. I used to not be able to look at a girl that I really thought we'd be perfect together but turned me down. Now a number of times (possibly higher than I'm going to admit to) I can have perfectly functioning friendships with people that I used to be head over heels for, and surprisingly people that felt like that about me. By all means feeling upset about it shows that you had invested emotion in the scenario, go for it.

The problem is when people start to build up this shield of "I was perfect and deserved this". Pro-tip, if you can in the space of one conversation go from thinking you love someone to telling anyone that will listen that she's a manipulative bitch who is just using you to look popular, you probably aren't that great relationship material.

But in addressing the "pants" talk, this is something you'll have to clear for me. Maybe it's just the type of friendships I cultivate, but the only differences between my close friends and relationships is the physical. I mean, the kissing and sex and unspeakable sex have emotional links to them, but they're still physical acts. It's nice to have a partner to support you and cheer you up when you're sad and enjoy spending time with, but if they're the only person in your life that can do that it just strikes me as odd, and having been in a relationship with someone that thought like that I can tell you straight up that it has a serious impact on the both of you.

It just seeming implies it was all about getting one's dick wet, as oppose to some sort of meaningful intimacy.

sanquin:
That's what I've been saying. Those are the people I hate. Becoming a girl's friend and such for the sole reason of trying to hook up with her.

Yeah bro, it's a great idea to randomly hook up with a girl without getting to know her first. I just walk up to them on the street and I'm like "You're a really nice person, and I quite like you. I'd like to enter a deep, meaningful, committed relationship with you."

Complaining about guys that become friends with a girl in the hopes of entering a relationship is painfully retarded, especially because most of the time, the girl is unwittingly leading the guy on. And you expect him to not be happy when you lead him on and then shoot him down? He's not cutting you off because he's not getting in your pants (that's what fuckbuddies are for). He's cutting you off because you hurt him.

Gah, this is so infuriating. There's such a massive lack of empathy in this article that I want to tear my hair out. Tha author even pulls the "I'm a nice person" card (despite shooting this guy down and then complaining about it) and claims that she's not a douchebag (even though she has no empathy for him). The fact that she makes these claims and then immediately afterwards makes sexist cracks about "men's primal lizardbrains" (please look at the ratio of male to female engineers in the world today, child) says a lot.

tl;dr: Typical misandrist rant resulting from driving friends away after leading them on.

Hazy:
There are several reasons why people end up in the friend zone, but the one I hear about most often is this:
you've tipped the scales of attraction vs comfort to the comfort side. They have become too comfortable with you, and as such, you are no longer deemed "relationship material." You become like a brother. Or a lamp.
Let's just assume for the sake of this post that the concept of friends with benefits does not exist.

image

Take a look at what this man is doing: he is balancing. It's exactly like that. You meet a girl, she thinks you're cute, and the countdown timer begins. Wait too long and the scale shifts: she loses interest and you lose your chance for a while. So, you have to keep inching it in the opposite direction by showing her that you're interested in being more than just friends. Strike while the iron is hot, because that window is closing, and it won't wait around. Be adventurous and flirtatious. Take them out, but don't be there at their beck and call. You're a man, not a dog. You have your own life to live, you have your own problems, and you can't be dealing with somebody else's emotional instability. I'm not saying to treat women like shit, but don't be there to pamper their asses. Think of it like a mystery: the best ones keep you in suspense, they keep you guessing. They never reveal themselves completely. Be like that: intrigue them, make them wanting more.

The friend zone sucks, there's no doubt about that, and while you can look up all of the advice in the world on how to avoid it, it pales in comparison to the actual experience you get from finding yourself in there.

Now for my female readers out there, let me offer you some advice: a lot of guys SUCK at getting the message. Women are trained to let men down gently and vaguely, "I'm not ready for a relationship right now," "I think it's too soon for me," repeat ad nauseam. This gives them the idea that, if they wait around long enough, you'll finally be "ready." Don't do this. Let them know "Hey, I don't like you like that." Is it blunt? Yes. Will it hurt? Most likely, provided they don't have skin made of titanium, but it is far, far better to tell them this way, than to imbue them with the sense of false hope that you will someday be available to them.

QFT

i think this could go either way on the gender scale, but it is very important to convey this.

if you don't make your intentions/feelings clear, holy fuck, people will twist whatever you say in their head to give themselves a possible chance. make your intentions CLEAR from the get go, just assuming things is setup for bad things to happen in the long run.

(this is coming from a guy who has friendzoned 4-5 girls off the top of my head, they ended up cooling off after a month or so and we are great friends now, but nonetheless i friend zoned them, hard, and they got the point loud and clear )

I think the problem at the heart of the matter is the miss-match between romance and friendship between the two genders.

Guys don't really differentiate between a romance and friendship because men tend not to be picky about choosing sexual partners. They'll approach a prospective romantic partner like a friend, and a friend can easily become a prospective romantic partner- the distinctions appear naturally blurred through the eyes of a man.

For women on the other hand i feel the distinctions are more rigid. A man is either a friend or prospective romantic partner, and that distinction is made early on and it's hard to shift to one from the other (that's not to say it doesn't ever happen however.) If a man approaches a women like a friend then he's going to be put in the friend category but if he doesn't do that he's more likely to be put in the prospective partner category.

I think a problem lots of men face is that we naively assume that women view relationships in the same way we do. You like someone so you want to get to know them, you enjoy spending time with them and you build a friendship and from that friendship you hope romance will blossom. That only tends to happen though if the woman views you as a potential romantic partner from day one- and the trouble with building a friendship first is that you reveal your flaws and weaknesses to them which turns a lot of women off.

The reasons why this happens is probably a complex mix of evolved behaviour and how genders are socalised, but as with all discussions about human behaviour we need to be mindful that we can only make vague generalisations given the complexity and intelligence of the human mind.

This will sound rich coming from a guy, but i do sometimes wish that girls approached sex and relationships in the same way that guys did- Everyone would be having a hell of a lot more sex otherwise. But then again maybe if humans were like that we'd all be so busy fucking we'd have never left the caves :P

Hazy:

Take a look at what this man is doing: he is balancing. It's exactly like that. You meet a girl, she thinks you're cute, and the countdown timer begins. Wait too long and the scale shifts: she loses interest and you lose your chance for a while. So, you have to keep inching it in the opposite direction by showing her that you're interested in being more than just friends. Strike while the iron is hot, because that window is closing, and it won't wait around. Be adventurous and flirtatious. Take them out, but don't be there at their beck and call. You're a man, not a dog. You have your own life to live, you have your own problems, and you can't be dealing with somebody else's emotional instability. I'm not saying to treat women like shit, but don't be there to pamper their asses. Think of it like a mystery: the best ones keep you in suspense, they keep you guessing. They never reveal themselves completely. Be like that: intrigue them, make them wanting more.

Broadly agree with what this guy says- you need to make your intentions known early on so women know how to view you and you ask them out fairly sharpish whilst you still hold her romantic interest. Leave it to late or get too comfortable with her and she'll see you as a friend. If it works great, if not you disengage and move on.

Sadly, from personal experience it's rarely that simple, even if you are experienced enough to know the risks and can confidently ask women out it's easy to get sucked into a girl who you see regularly and so you can't disengage from them- and then you end up with all the emotional friendzone baggage.

Oh, and whilst i'm on this subject- I hate it when people say "be yourself" when you're around other women, because i find it really useless advice. Being myself around women, i only make friends with them because that's what i'm naturally inclined to do.

Philosophically speaking, i don't think there's such a thing as a "true self" and that in every social situation we wear a metaphorical mask which conceals or promotes certain aspects of my personality. If i'm socalising with my friends i wear a certain mask, if i'm in a formal work situation i'll wear another mask, and another when i'm with my family or on the internet as i am now. When you're flirting with someone you're interested in, you need to wear a mask which highlights what makes you interesting to them- your skills, hobbies and interests- as well as one that draws attention to the positive aspects of your character- be friendly, warm, humourous and confident and "cool" (for want of a better word). Being fit, healthy, in shape and dressing well also helps a lot naturally.

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