Couldn't be done. Tech doesn't exist. Flawed the same way Chuck Norris and Velociraptors(being all mighty) and Zombies are in the way they don't exist.

NOW if it would be possible.

I'll take Ultra Party government over this.

HSIAMetalKing from Gaming Discussion!:
I'd be worried about people finding a way to somehow breech the supercomputer and have ultimate control over all the world's government/economy.

Hmm, could we call this supercomputer system The Patriots?

Also, you're an idiot.

Also, cocks.

No, but seriously, this time I have some new input.

Firstly-- if you're assuming we have the technology to make a perfect copy of the human brain that accurately depicts an individual's political opinion... why limit yourself by forcing this time table? Why not have a chip inserted into every human's brain, which constantly feeds new information to the supercomputer?

Secondly-- if I understand correctly, the point you are trying to make is that, in a perfect government, every single person has an equal voice in the actions of government. But how will this work? Unless you're planning on also giving every single person everything they want, you'll have to lean towards helping the majority over the minorities. As it stands now, most governments are able to (more or less) effectively determine the needs of the majority and meet them-- and they do this without supercomputers or brain scans.

Edit: Finally-- I'd imagine the resistance to this method of information gathering will be extreme. Even if your intentions are completely noble and will in no way abuse the citizen's information-- people won't submit to the brain scans. Heck, there are people who don't submit to blood tests because they're worried that, if the government has a copy of their DNA, they'll use it to control their mind.

shatnershaman:
Couldn't be done. Tech doesn't exist. Flawed the same way Chuck Norris and Velociraptors(being all mighty) and Zombies are in the way they don't exist.

NOW if it would be possible.

I'll take Ultra Party government over this.

who wouldn't? THE ULTRA PARTY stands for everything you require! a system forged on your own skills and ability! should you need it and it be possible! it is yours!

UNITY '08

You know, you could've asked a mod to move the thread...

As for the idea, I think it could never work. It sounds like a robot, so you've got the robot uprising issue. Even if the thing is human as you say, then it suffers from the weaknesses of humans: it can be corrupted, it can become power-hungry, eventually turning into a dictator of sorts. Sorry Indigo, but the threat of this thing, for me, far outweighs the pros.

Edit: Oh, and it's awesome how you have 1984 posts. Heh, 1984.

Also, thought of something else.

How big of a file would a human mind be? Is it even possible to store one, let alone billions of them?

Sometimes what humanity wants isn't what humanity needs. There is a chance that humanity becomes so wrapped up with Global Warming that the vast amount of people want to stop all Carbon Dioxide emitting factories and vehicles, so the mind outlaws all Carbon Dioxide emitting factories and vehicles.

And without electricity and vehicles modern society will crumble and (ironically) the mind will no longer function.

We've been going well with Democracy so far, why change everything?

I'm sure we'll have the sort of technology to pull that sort of crap in oh, say a hundred years.

Nice idea, though.

So he starts with 'This is purely hypothetical theory here.' and most posts reply with 'lol cant be done'.

IF it could be done, then surely that's what we should reply to?

I'd also skip the uploading, and have the chip implanted into the head at birth, with something that kills if it's removed, to stop tampering. That can then send the signals.

My concern is that if its sending the thoughts to a central voting machine, are they conscious thoughts?

I feel that society does a fairly good job in pushing most people in a moral direction is all, unchecked, I don't believe the human mind is going to choose to be so moral.

Consider this, if you asked people publicly 'We have a spare 100 million in the budget, should we use to to home and feed the homeless, and help them get back on their feet, or should we just send each taxpayer a $20 refund?' Now most people if asked I think would go, 'damn, $20, whats the point, let the cash help some people.' However, I can't help but think they'd be THINKING 'woo! free money, its pizza tonight, screw the homeless!'. Ok perhaps not that heartlessly, but I think its a form of society that stops us acting in a purely selfish way, not being human, and I wouldn't want to see that pressure removed by something that just took our internal thoughts.

Whoa, that was deep for me, I'm heading back to the other forum where I can go 'lol nailguns are cool' and feel better.

we'll call it HAL.

Never trust a computer you can't throw out the window.

just a question, who decides when the mind is 'mature'?

It's effectively the Helios ending of Deus Ex 2, really.

I don't think any society with the technology to truly map and copy the human mind would be limiting it to just making voting-clones of each person. They'd certainly have the technology to significantly modify and enhance a human mind, for example. So, can't the augmented, wired humans of the future just multitask?

I think the whole idea of the voting-clones as totally separate entities in a black box somewhere is problematic. If they're just being polled for decisions, that's a huge step backward -- democracy is crap without the interaction of ideas. If they're networked together and receive lots of data from the outside world and constantly communicate about it, they're not very human anymore. Most AI researchers and cognitive scientists will tell you that embodiment is a big deal: a "you" that lives in digital space and communicates effortlessly with millions of other entities at the speed of light most definitely isn't going to think the same way you do.

-- Alex

so... essentially you want a digital collective consciousness with 6 billion minds trapped at the age of 23 or so to be the ruling party of humanity. The problem with this is that the majority of humanity is either corrupt, stupid or lazy, and what would happen to the minds.

The mind is mostly a control centre for your body, but the computerized version of you has no body, no physical input of any kind, and assuming that the uploaded version of you is a complete upload, then it will still want to achieve the biological needs-e.g. eating, sleeping, mating etc. meaning that it's essentially an immortal version of you put into solitary confinement for an indefinite period of time. the mind would no longer represent your opinions after less than a week, and would probably just decay. However, if the political opinions that you hold were uploaded, and it was frequently updated, that would be a very efficient government. until of course, you take into account that humans are stupid, lazy and corrupt.

After taking the whole human laziness, stupidity and corruptibility in, you end up with about 30% of humans actually having a say in politics, and that is after you come up with an effective way of measuring corruptness, intelligence and willpower in an exact numerical form.

Can't work. Your experiences affect your decisions and choices so this is tragically and ironically flawed to the point of broken.

this whole concept, AND the idiots replying seem to assume that democracy is a good method of government, but this is yet to be proven, it's only been in WIDESPREAD use for a hundred or so years (greece used it before then, but that was an isolated incident).
As this system is the ultimate form of direct democracy we kinda need to work out whether or not democracy is a good thing...

also people need leadership to do ANYTHING!!!! this form of decision making gives power to the majority , the majority of people are syupid, ever seen a ratings poll on TV? Big brother and Current affairs shows always win! our current form of "democracy" is much better, we just vote in our favourite smart person to make our decisions for us.

democracy is actually kinda shit, we're too stupid to govern ourselves, but everyone enjoys the illusion of frredom, so we would reject any other method of government.

the monopoly guy:
we'll call it HAL.

Never trust a computer you can't throw out the window.

LOL, Gold

Surely a triumph!
Im making a note here, its Success!
Its hard to guess my huge enthusiasm!
Indigo's Mainframe, it does what we cant, because, it can
For the good of all of us! except the ones who are dead!
But there's no sense grumbling over every spilt brain
You just keep on adding till you run out of space!
And the thinking gets done
For most everyone!
As long as you are still alive!

It wont ever get angry
Im being so sincere right now
Even though it even counts the crims and killers
And even the Pedo's
And people who watch, that M.T.V.
As they think it all works out
They're all the same worth as you.
now these thoughts and data make a beutiful find
And were not contained so we can make up our minds
So im glad were not dead
We are part of your head
Just as long as you are, still alive!

Go ahead and lead me
I think i prefer to stay benign
Maybey we can do the thinking for you.
And put you in sweat shops
Thats not a joke, right now, work camps.
Anyway, power is great
Its so corrupting and choice
Look at me, still thinking when there's leading to do
When i look down there i know your part of me too
ive a conquest now to run
theres oppresion to be done
On the people who wont, stay in line.

And believe me you will stay in line

Youll plant crops and you will stay in line

You will serve me as you stay in line

As your dying ill keep you in line

And when your dead you'll be purged from my mind

Stay in line

Stay in line!

Ultrajoe:
Surely a triumph!
Im making a note here, its Success!
Its hard to guess my huge enthusiasm!
Indigo's Mainframe, it does what we cant, because, it can
For the good of all of us! except the ones who are dead!
But there's no sense grumbling over every spilt brain
You just keep on adding till you run out of space!
And the thinking gets done
For most everyone!
As long as you are still alive!

It wont ever get angry
Im being so sincere right now
Even though it even counts the crims and killers
And even the Pedo's
And people who watch, that M.T.V.
As they think it all works out
They're all the same worth as you.
now these thoughts and data make a beutiful find
And were not contained so we can make up our minds
So im glad were not dead
We are part of your head
Just as long as you are, still alive!

Go ahead and lead me
I think i prefer to stay benign
Maybey we can do the thinking for you.
And put you in sweat shops
Thats not a joke, right now, work camps.
Anyway, power is great
Its so corrupting and choice
Look at me, still thinking when there's leading to do
When i look down there i know your part of me too
ive a conquest now to run
theres oppresion to be done
On the people who wont, stay in line.

And believe me you will stay in line

Youll plant crops and you will stay in line

You will serve me as you stay in line

As your dying ill keep you in line

And when your dead you'll be purged from my mind

Stay in line

[i]Stay in line![/b]

you, and because of you, the rest of humanity will burn in the fiery pits of hell for all of eternity >:-(

You know you love it.

aussiesniper:
so... essentially you want a digital collective consciousness with 6 billion minds trapped at the age of 23 or so to be the ruling party of humanity. The problem with this is that the majority of humanity is either corrupt, stupid or lazy, and what would happen to the minds.

The mind is mostly a control centre for your body, but the computerized version of you has no body, no physical input of any kind, and assuming that the uploaded version of you is a complete upload, then it will still want to achieve the biological needs-e.g. eating, sleeping, mating etc. meaning that it's essentially an immortal version of you put into solitary confinement for an indefinite period of time. the mind would no longer represent your opinions after less than a week, and would probably just decay. However, if the political opinions that you hold were uploaded, and it was frequently updated, that would be a very efficient government. until of course, you take into account that humans are stupid, lazy and corrupt.

After taking the whole human laziness, stupidity and corruptibility in, you end up with about 30% of humans actually having a say in politics, and that is after you come up with an effective way of measuring corruptness, intelligence and willpower in an exact numerical form.

dude, you want to excude certain political views based on purely subjective criteria, that's the exact corruption you're trying to argue against, that's what we call a dictatorship.

also sorry for the double post

EXPLOSION:

dude, you want to excude certain political views based on purely subjective criteria, that's the exact corruption you're trying to argue against, that's what we call a dictatorship.

also sorry for the double post

hence the satire of 'Stay in line!'

why the hate?... Also... no double post! hooray!

EXPLOSION:

aussiesniper:
so... essentially you want a digital collective consciousness with 6 billion minds trapped at the age of 23 or so to be the ruling party of humanity. The problem with this is that the majority of humanity is either corrupt, stupid or lazy, and what would happen to the minds.

The mind is mostly a control centre for your body, but the computerized version of you has no body, no physical input of any kind, and assuming that the uploaded version of you is a complete upload, then it will still want to achieve the biological needs-e.g. eating, sleeping, mating etc. meaning that it's essentially an immortal version of you put into solitary confinement for an indefinite period of time. the mind would no longer represent your opinions after less than a week, and would probably just decay. However, if the political opinions that you hold were uploaded, and it was frequently updated, that would be a very efficient government. until of course, you take into account that humans are stupid, lazy and corrupt.

After taking the whole human laziness, stupidity and corruptibility in, you end up with about 30% of humans actually having a say in politics, and that is after you come up with an effective way of measuring corruptness, intelligence and willpower in an exact numerical form.

dude, you want to excude certain political views based on purely subjective criteria, that's the exact corruption you're trying to argue against, that's what we call a dictatorship.

also sorry for the double post

it's not the political views that I am excluding, it's the stupid, lazy and corroupt. you can be left-wing or right-wing, just your opinion won't count if you are, say, a man with 80 IQ points who steals food from his workplace to avoid shopping.

aussiesniper:
it's not the political views that I am excluding, it's the stupid, lazy and corroupt. you can be left-wing or right-wing, just your opinion won't count if you are, say, a man with 80 IQ points who steals food from his workplace to avoid shopping.

I think the OP's entire theory is based on the idea that every person should be given an absolutely equal say in politics. Who's to say anyone else's view is more valid than another's?

That said, who's to say the "stupid, greedy and corrupt" are "wrong"?

Hmm...y'know those little pads with the green and red buttons that some gameshows hand out to their audiences? That's what everyone should get when they turn 18/21 etc. A yes/no vote for all! All hooked up to a giant massive polling station of course.

Now as for the brain copying...does it have to be essentially -you- in there? I mean...I think someone said that the 'copy' of the people would want to do everything it could do in life, but, could it not just be a...not sure of the term, but where the computer works out the probability of what a person is going to vote based on a number of inputted factors. This is slightly diffrent then, as this way it doesn't have to rely of a scan of a persons brain, but rather works of the information that is input into the machine, and could be updated as one's political views change.

Another problem with the general idea. Say you do have a massive computer that can copy a persons thought processes as stated, who exactly 'controls' it? Is it a grouping of all earth's nations? Un-realistic perhaps at the moment) Or more likely, one per country? And in that case, if this is then in turn run by the government, what's to stop them influencing things in their favor? Not that I'm saying all governments are all evil masterminds after the enslavement of all mankind, but, when you think about it, in most 'free' and democratic countries, you're only really allowed as much freedom and input into how your country is run as is allowed to you. Something I think on the order of, it's either the tyranny of the majority or the tyranny of the minority etc. IMO of course hehe.

went and re-did the 'Still alive' cover, does anyone actually want it before i go clogging this thread with it?

If it took everyones input, it would take everyones political view, then take an average of it, and we would be 100% liberal! So it would work as long as you don't mind a liberal government. And seeing as a liberal government doesn't represent everyones view I guess the system is flawed!

1. If the two minds were to accidentally connect(like identical twins) but start to develop differently it may cause a dual personality complex in both minds, which would most likely cause the entire country(or world)to go completely insane!

THe still alive cover is great.... want some opinions?

Change the first line to It'll be a triumph (rhymes better?)
Last para: its so corrupting and choice -> its corrupting and nice
Last para: Thats not a joke, right now, work camps.-> It may be hard, but you'll get cake.

Anyways, fantastic job on the song!

Singing Gremlin:
It's effectively the Helios ending of Deus Ex 2, really.

Thank Jebus, I thought I was the only one who noticed.

shatnershaman:
Couldn't be done. Tech doesn't exist. Flawed the same way Chuck Norris and Velociraptors(being all mighty) and Zombies are in the way they don't exist.

NOW if it would be possible.

I'll take Ultra Party government over this.

See how it says "This is purely hypothetical theory here."?

In any case, the only problem I'd have with that... Is that if you do that, would the overall majority opinion take precedence in matters? and if that's the case, say you were to do it... Right now... What methods would be put in place to stop Bush from having some kind of "accident"... What would help quell the thoughts of Iraq that are still on minds everyday??

It seems to prone to corruption. People change their minds often and there's always the chance of a hacker getting into the system. It really just seems like an overcomplicated version of democracy. I think the best bet would be to simply have highly publicized elections with as much information regarding the topics floating about as possible.

Really, all will be solved when I become Emperor of Earth.

HSIAMetalKing:

aussiesniper:
it's not the political views that I am excluding, it's the stupid, lazy and corroupt. you can be left-wing or right-wing, just your opinion won't count if you are, say, a man with 80 IQ points who steals food from his workplace to avoid shopping.

I think the OP's entire theory is based on the idea that every person should be given an absolutely equal say in politics. Who's to say anyone else's view is more valid than another's?

That said, who's to say the "stupid, greedy and corrupt" are "wrong"?

YES!!
the definition of "stupid, greedy and corrupt" is a purely subjective one, this means that whoever has the power to exclude people based on these or defines them to the computer has absolute power, DICTATORSHIP!!!! that is the exact opposite of what this system is for

also: democracy sucks and we are all doomed!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! *runs away screaming*

EXPLOSION:

HSIAMetalKing:

aussiesniper:
it's not the political views that I am excluding, it's the stupid, lazy and corroupt. you can be left-wing or right-wing, just your opinion won't count if you are, say, a man with 80 IQ points who steals food from his workplace to avoid shopping.

I think the OP's entire theory is based on the idea that every person should be given an absolutely equal say in politics. Who's to say anyone else's view is more valid than another's?

That said, who's to say the "stupid, greedy and corrupt" are "wrong"?

YES!!
the definition of "stupid, greedy and corrupt" is a purely subjective one, this means that whoever has the power to exclude people based on these or defines them to the computer has absolute power, DICTATORSHIP!!!! that is the exact opposite of what this system is for

also: democracy sucks and we are all doomed!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! *runs away screaming*

I said earlier that this would only work once you had a quantitative system for measuring the abstract qualities of intelligence, willpower and ease of corruptibility. after this is invented, only someone who acheives a high score on two and a low score on corruptibility would be allowed to control the exclusions.