TomNook:

LewsTherin:

TomNook:

LewsTherin:
With all due respect,

"Why don't you all fade away
And don't try to dig what we all say
I'm not trying to cause a big sensation
I'm just talkin' 'bout my generation "
-Rodger Daltry

Pete Townshend(sp?) wrote the song.

But Daltry sang it.

But the message came from Townshend, Daltry was just a means of expression.

Ohh you ignorant internet kids...who the hell is "Daltry" ? Go get some education. ;)

John Galt:
...Neo-Luddite...

I went through the whole thread without expecting to come across that term. I had wanted to use that.

Anyway, I've become tired of the many threads that say that most people are dumb. I like being at this end of the bell curve, and I only get annoyed at the stupids when they're irritable.

Some guy: 'Mr President, did you know that half of all Americans are below average intelligence?'
Eisenhower: 'Hubba jubba- wha?'

If there is a general trend down for knowledge/IQ perhaps we should hold our teachers to a higher standard and pay them more. Unfortunately teaching is a safety job, and in the private sector teachers are paid worse wages. It's not amazing to me that teachers often are regarded as nothing more than idealists, leches or lazy flotsam. I had some good professors and teachers, for which I am happy. However poor interpersonal skills has its own drawbacks... such as talking down to your employers.

I like how he assumes teenagers are stupid. We have hobbies and we're going to pursue the things that interest us the most. I'm a very sociable person. I hang out with people almost all day, everyday. Yet I watch UCBerkeley videos on YouTube. Free full-length college lectures on an assortment of different things for entire semesters. Like Physics and Psychology (my favorites). I even had the Psychology ones on my iPod so I could listen to them when I'm not at the computer.

He brought up history and culture multiple times in his explanation. To me, history is irrelevant. It's interesting, but irrelevant. Culture would be a good thing to know if you travel a lot. Which most of us don't. So personally I can regard it as irrelevant as well. Interesting, but irrelevant. And with our social networking, we can find out about others' cultures simply by meeting people all over the world. I talked to a lot of English at one point and learned a lot of how it's like over in England.

He makes half-way points, no real astonishing points. Can you tell me many people over 30 who are able to explain who the enemies were in the first World War? Or how about the war of 1812? Every generation has someone like this. I enjoy my technology. I have an iPod, every console on the face of the Earth (literally I beleive), a facebook, and soon an HDTV, however, I also have Greek Philosophy Books and Kant and Hobbes on my bookshelf. We have lives as teen nowadays. They still had the draft in the 70's and many of these people were shipped off at 18. Not too mention, how many people on this site have gotten jobs based on their knowledge of the past? Is it good for us to be well educated? Of course, is it absolutely necessary to know Plato and Socrates in today's world? I don't believe so. However, how many of us know The President of Nintendo? We know what is relevent to our world just as they knew what was relevent to theirs. Technology is how things are run today. Many of us have been talking about how we need to have face to face skills and get out more. Agreed, I like the exercise and the sun every once and a while, but technology is beginning to keep up with us. We have web cams and video conferences, so I would hope that people stop arguing that we sit with no interaction. Are we dumb, no, do we have different informations, yes. My teachers may know that 50's and 60's, but how many of them understand Gigabytes? Lastly, to an earlier post. I've played FF for my entire life. I have actually looked the Summons up and learned things about the Hindu culture, so games can teach us, indirectly, as long as we are willing to learn about them.

Alrighty, this guy is babbling on in the background as I'm writing this wall of text.
Everything I'm about to assert applies to my situation, and perhaps only my situation? (who knows).
I'm a 22 year old living in Iceland.

His assertion is that without a classic education you are worthless. This is clear from his references to literature, history and so on. Curiously he does not mention the sciences. So his concern seems to be mostly with things that have come and gone, are past, that are...tada...history.
I haven't read this guys book, nor am I particularly interested since he has not endeared himself to me by indirectly calling me untrustworthy (I am under 30).
His reaction is clearly one of phobia. He seems to not be completely aware of the environment of young people, nor what they do in the "internets". Most people in my surroundings use the internet to stay in touch with each other, to express their opinion on things, to research and add to their knowledge, to know about what is happening out in the world.
I'm offended by his assertion that I cannot appreciate literature and art through the internet. He himself is apparently not aware of the wealth of literature found on the web for free and with easy access. Nor is he aware of the artists that come together and syndicate their works be they drawings, music, graphical or whatnot. The internet is a much more efficient medium than any library or museum. His failure to keep up with the times is painfully evident in his comments.
He focuses alot on social networking sites, which I don't use alot personally. However, being from a small nation like Iceland and having friends all over the world (literally) they provide a great way to keep in touch. Did my friends in Sudan manage to build their school? How are my old schoolmates in Chile doing? I wonder what my old roommate is doing in China now? And so on.
He seems like someone that would advocate snail mail because it use to be such a awesome thing.
Back on track.

I agree that education is important. It makes you understand the people around you better if you know history, are aware of politics and such. Tolerance towards people of other races, nations, political and sexual orientation is also directly linked to knowledge. So, in his assertion that knowledge is important I agree with(even though he veils it in vitriol towards young people). But you cannot realistically expect young people to keep up with everything that has come and gone. I doubt Mark Bauerlein knows any physical trade. Does he know how to shoe a horse? To raise a barn? To make chainmail? These are just a few of the skills and knowledges that would have been vital back in the day. So why not know them? At some point knowledge fades out of importance and is instead replaced with skills more relevant to your surroundings. I read quite alot, but most of my reading is done online. Should I limit myself to analogue ways of gaining information and keeping in touch with friends because...he doesn't like it? He gives absolutely no good reason to not use the internet. He only asserts that people are stupid completely ignoring any self criticism.

Lets give a little look at my surroundings and family. My grandfather, as a child, lived in a hut. The walls were mostly stone or packed dirt. There was a grass roof, he lived in the countryside and milked cows, sheared sheep and such. He moved to the city and when the American army took over occupation from the British he'd help his family by stealing cutlery, food and anything else not nailed down from the barracks. Highlights were when the soldiers would give him and his friends candy and there were draconian rules of how the treasure must be split given past endevours and what they had brought to the group. He became a comms officer on fishing ships quite young and later was hired as a radar/comms officer at the now decommisioned U.S. army base here in Iceland.
This is something that went on a very short time ago. Mud walls and theft, and this was the norm! There are much worse stories out there from this time in history. Should I look back glassy eyed and cultivate the skills passed down from my ancestors? Book learning or knowing about the Venetian republic was NOT a priority back then. My father however has inclination similar to Mark in that he prioritizes school learning over almost everything. It is über alles and it is a must that you go to school, get an education and start working ASAP! The generation shift from grandfater -> Father is so huge that I find my generation to be kindof dragging their heels. Yes, social networking is huge, yes reading BOOKS may be declining. Museums and libraries may get fewer visitors but that's seeing such a narrow picture. You have to look at the whole thing to truly understand what is going on. Teenagers are reading fewer books and more e-books, going to fewer museums and logging more hits on sites like "DeviantArt".
It's all a part of being free and living in a prosperous society. I don't "need" to know anything to survive here. Someone with no schooling can get a job, it's not great but it puts food on the table. He can get around, not be immediately excluded from social activities etc. This freedom allows people to pursue their interests and gather the knowledge THEY deem important or necessary. Just because a person hasn't read Edgar Allan Poe doesn't mean they are worthless. Just because someone hasn't been to a museum that doesn't mean they're not able to be productive and engaging citizens.

*shrug*
I'd be lying if I didn't say I know alot of "stupid" people. Alot of them are young, naive, unaware of their surroundings, place too much emphasis on their social life than I think is healthy. They spend all their offnights shitfaced and blackout drunk stumbling around downtown puking their guts out. I disagree with it, but I have no clue if they are more stupid than the previous generation since I WAS NOT THERE! And neither was he there for the generation previous to his. He has no clue about what he's going on about...shit like this just pisses me off and makes me want to go grab my chainmail kit and bend FURIOUSLY!
Anyway...wall of text attacks
The attack was successful.

p.s.
If you are still young (not old like me *qq*) I recommend you try to go to a foreign country as soon as possible and stay there for a while. Enroll in a exchange program, go to a boarding school, anything. Get out of your surroundings, be unable to rely on your established network of family and friends and fend for yourself.
It changed my life, atleast.

Isn't this always the argument the previous generation makes against the new generation. At one point it was people who only read the bible vs people who read more than the bible. This argument is a reoccuring struggle as society changes and embraces new thought patterns, practices, and habbits. It does not mean we are getting dumber, fact is we always have been and always will be dumb. Not to qoute a bad movie or anything but the person is smart and people are dumb. Talk to almost anyone regardless of age and really crack into them and im sure you will find what makes them tick, think, and everything they know is quite astounding. However in groups and examined from afar we are how would you say... "pants on head retarded".

Just my two cents

I don't like the fact that he calls us stupid because we don't know stuff that was relevant during his time. I think the older generation has been calling the younger generation stupid since the dawn of time. I bet during Shakespeare's time older people said the young people going to see Shakespeare's plays while never seeing Oedipus the King in live outdoor theater was a sign that people weren't appreciating the classics.

sammyfreak:
I like this guy, alot. Great literature mature with age, great art becomes more relevant as time goes by. People who dissmiss stuff just become it's old are twats.

People who dismiss things just because they are new are same. There feels a distinct disdain for all that is new to learn and do in this guy's speech.

Newer generations can't possibly learn all the stuff their parents did, to the degree they did, as well as about computers, various programs, how to use the internet most effectively, using various tech, etc. Moore's Law has shown the processing power of our tech to be doubling every couple of years, which allows more functionality and therefore more complexity in their uses. How many of our parents are as versed and comfortable with computers and other tech as this younger generation?

This lack of knowledge of Shakespeare, while sad, is a reflection of the world in which we live. And kids aren't going to the library these days cuz they're doing research online and ordering books from Amazon.

Also, until we can start paying the educators of these "ignorant and lazy" children what they are worth so top people in their respective fields are teaching the children, I lay less of the blame on the children, than on those people over 40 who put those ridiculous salaries in place.

saposkus:
evrybody has to think about in our era plus if he tried to do the things we do i doubt he could get a working escapist profile because his era is the one wher there is no technology and still people read it doesnt mater how much as long as we keep learning and i really dont think antony and cleopatra are gonna have much impact on my life evryday.

I think you just proved his points using both poor grammar and assumptions. Come on, show that we have something to defend. Also, you may not need to read about Anthony and Cleopatra, however in doing so, you're enriching your life. While you aren't 'worthless' as this man would claim you are, you're limiting yourself. Like Protocon said in what was probably one of the best first posts ever, getting outside your comfort zone will make your life so much better. Don't get stuck in a rut lest you continue to validate this man's argument that the under 30 crowd has no appreciation of knowledge.

I don't really buy the argument in the video that children have too many distractions now: There have always been distractions for children, and an IPod or a XBox 360 is no more of a distraction than a walkman or a ZX spectrum was in my day, or a record player and a football was in my father's. Certainly reading takes up a smaller proportion of young folk's leisure time; but they also have more leisure time overall, what with not having to spend 27 hours a day working at the pit to earn enough gravel to feed the family for breakfast &c.

Regarding social networking sites: I would say that if the social networking aspect of the internet does have an effect on intelligence, it is a polarising one. If little Timmy decided to social-network with a shower of dunces, then that may make him more stupid. But little Timmy could be social-networking with intelligent people from all over the world who share similar interests, that can only be a good thing for his intelligence; it is certainly a good thing for his experience of other cultures and appreciation for the ideas and principles of people outside his own community.

I think that the internet also has a polarising effect on intelligence. For those who were already keen to learn and receptive to new ideas, the internet offers access to information about every conceivable subject to a level that I wish I'd had while I was at school. For the pupil who just wants to 'wing it' and get a pass mark for his homework with the minimum of effort, however, this same access to information removes some of the necessity to learn things, because often they can just 'Google' them, write down the answers, and then forget them.

So while I think you could blame technology for exacerbating the problem of educating those less inclined to learn, blaming it for making an entire generation stupid is, well, stupid.

Ok, I just skipped the walls of text, so I'll be brief so as not to be hypocritical. Also, I'm English and not stupid. Blunt, but I'm really not.

I wouldn't blame the internet for the drop in standards. I'd blame the education system and the parents first, because really, those two have much more to do with a child's education than the internet does.

It's parental responsibility to make sure a child focusses on their priorities. Education is important for kids, and it should be a parent's duty to do the absolute best they can in thate area to give their kids the best possible chance in later life.

And I might be crazy and make no sense, but a lot of people have difficulty following my train of thought at times. Particularly classmates.

[edit] erased the rant, sorry guys [/edit]

Pretty much what the guy above me said.

So everyone over 30 is smarter than kids? Really. Check this out:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pg7PB4ytTJ0
Look, I could answer at least 3/4 of those questions, and I've never studied in my life. Most of the things I learn from surfing the internet, finding out new things and sometimes I even find them out in games. And seriously, how many sides does a triangle have? Good frigging lord.

I believe embiggening your vocabulary is perfectly cromulent.

Anyway, here's a pretty interesting link: http://hnn.us/articles/1732.html

"This page lists articles about the teaching of history, focusing in particular on studies which demonstrate the historical ignorance of Americans." And others too, like British and Italians.

My history teacher once read an answer someone from our class had written in a test. There was a question about imperialism and Africa and the student had written as one reason for imperialism was "to raise awareness of AIDS."

Teacher was kinda confused should he complain a lot or just laugh.

The fellow's fallen down the slippery slope of believing that, unless you've read great literature and studied world events, you're a moron. That's really not true. The digital generations understands that this kind of "book knowledge" is largely static, unless piece of information that, more often that not, simply gets in the way of trying to integrate themselves into modern society.

Ultimately, this fellow's been teaching too long. His world is framed with the idea that you need to know these things to function because that's what he teaches all the time. Then you get out into the real world, and that's simply not the case. With the information age came information overload, and kids have to be a lot more savvy about the kind information that really matters to them - that's all that's really happening.

What you really need to worry about is deliberate ignorance - defined a desire not to learn or be reasonable because your convictions are so strong they prevent you from opening your eyes. As Al Gore is pointing out in The Assault On Reason, it's very politically savvy these days to ignore facts. These are our leaders, the peers of the country, and we come to learn from this behavior that it's better to be ignorant and "right" than it is to be intelligent and correct.

That kind of mindset is a far greater threat to intelligence than somebody who doesn't know a little history or terminology.

I'll try and keep it SHORT. This thread makes me laugh because so many people are trying to use complex words to try and shift themselves above an idiot teenager.

ANYWAY I blame education system completely, in English lessons why do they use books such as Silas Marner and An Inspector Calls, yes they're good but teenagers don't give a shit about a book written before electricity. These uninteresting and unappealing books (at least to teenagers) put teenagers off literature and reading, if they used more relevant books e.g Harry Potter, Da Vinci Code, yes they are longer than the above books but they're more captivating than the older books (again to teenagers), it would encourage teenagers to read on and learn.

OR maybe the system is like that so people stay supressed and do not cause trouble and protests as the government takes the publics money. *Leaves and listens to Rage Against The Machine*

/Edit*** People need to listen to more meaningful music like Rage, and sorry this wasnt short at all.

/Edit**** I am 15 from England so I'm actually insulted by the douchebag in the video, fucking capitalist trying to plug his book. Peace Out.

DraftPickle:
teenagers don't give a shit about a book written before electricity.

Then teenagers are stupid. Sorry.

if they used more relevant books e.g Harry Potter, Da Vinci Code,

...
Harry Potter being about...wizardry...so way before (and not using) electricity; and the Da Vinci Code, which is generally classed by most writers as "A boring pile of dingo's kidneys"

Seriously, do you want Katie Price's biog on there as well?

People need to listen to more meaningful music like Rage,

RATM have a very meaningful repetoire, it's just a pity that they're so far within the State now that they don't even qualify to listen to their own music.

I am 15 from England so I'm actually insulted by the douchebag in the video, fucking capitalist trying to plug his book. Peace Out.

On this we can agree, but dude, people were saying the same thing about Velvet Underground, The Sex Pistols and the like before you were even thought of.

There's a tonne of books pre-electricity that are going to be worth reading a thousand years from now; don't hang yourself up on RATM telling you that anyone over 20 is dead from the neck upwards, because...well...they are as well.

Yeah but us teenagers are only stupid because of the environment we're raised in and the fact with only short life we have little life experience. Yeah sorry about the books, in England we analyse the book on things like dramatic irony, structuring, I odnt whats its like in the land of the free :D. WHAT THE FUCK YOU ON ABOUT KATIE PRICES BIO IS A TIMELESS PIECE OF LITERATURE. I only said the thing about electricity to emphasise how old they are. lots of love.........ew

DraftPickle:
Yeah but us teenagers are only stupid because of the environment we're raised in and the fact with only short life we have little life experience.

Nah, John Galt's 15, and there's a lot of smart teenagers here.

Yeah sorry about the books, in England we analyse the book on things like dramatic irony, structuring, I odnt whats its like in the land of the free :D.

Neither do I, I'm Midlands based. :)

WHAT THE FUCK YOU ON ABOUT KATIE PRICES BIO IS A TIMELESS PIECE OF LITERATURE.

Pity she doesn't write any of her books though. Damn Ghostwriters.

I only said the thing about electricity to emphasise how old they are. lots of love.........ew

Heh. Read Macbeth sometime. It's got lots of guts and swordfights. :)

"Nah, John Galt's 15, and there's a lot of smart teenagers here"

So when you said teenagers are stupid you didn't mean it? trying not to be cocky but I'm part of the education system I'm in it so I think i have quite a good handle on why most teenagers dont like reading ANNNND You ever read the Da vinci Code? its frickin awesome. BTW Never read Tom Clancy book they are shite! AND Rage arent that in state

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=55O0DBt7YpE nyah! hehehe bye.

I was a teacher and my family are teachers, so I've got a good handle on it as well. :)
DVC is possibly one of the worst written books I've ever read, there's a good story there, but the Rosicrucian's were old news back in the early 80's.

Rage do a lot of shouting, but they're not half as good as they used to be.

Want a good read? The Watchmen. Rorschach will be right up your street.

Quote from Wulf Legend: He brought up history and culture multiple times in his explanation. To me, history is irrelevant. It's interesting, but irrelevant. Culture would be a good thing to know if you travel a lot. Which most of us don't. So personally I can regard it as irrelevant as well. Interesting, but irrelevant. And with our social networking, we can find out about others' cultures simply by meeting people all over the world. I talked to a lot of English at one point and learned a lot of how it's like over in England.[/quote]

History irrelevant eh? Ok.
-While your at it, let's ignore what happened during the times of the crusades, nazi germany, the french revolution, etc.
-Truth is, history is when you learn why things act like they are. Without history, you woudnt know why you can talk and have a free conscious.
By neglecting history, it's kinda like you neglect all the things that you have learned from your experiences.
-Great you meet someone on the internet, thing is, when you ask "why this is offensive in your country (or culture)". People will relate to history.

Sorry about this, but my major is in history. Your not the first who said something like that, but it gets to me every time.

AntiAntagonist:

Anyway, I've become tired of the many threads that say that most people are dumb. I like being at this end of the bell curve, and I only get annoyed at the stupids when they're irritable.

but isn't that the cliched perspective. i mean we wouldn't have socialism, communism, and welfare if we didn't have contempt for the intelligence of our peers. it almost seems that every person at sometime in their life says the phrase, "this planet is filled with morons".

and i think that mentality says more about the arrogance of every individual than it does about the intelligence of the masses.

So do you agree with me on the whole book thing? BTW thank you for not going " well we both agree the guys a douche lets move on" because not getting to the end of an arguement REALLY fucks me off, you? can add you, you appear to be one of the ten intelligent people on the internet (your not a super-nerd are you?). You ever read 1984 by George Orwell that is fucking read. Also the guy above me has a good point.

Sorry Im starting to talk at you now but I hate how some of the older generation simply shun the younger generation because of there blind views (see the irony?) when if they were really bothered they would try and help us saying we are kinda the future

I personally hated the War Poems/Cider with Rosie (which I had to read) BUT...it's tough to find a book that enough people would like (I'd have Watchmen, Day of the Triffids and probably 1984).

The forums here are quite friendly like that, there's no real "Well, I'll talk over him because he's not very bright."; or at least I haven't seen much.

I'd guess there's more than ten intelligent people on the internet, and I wouldn't really class myself that highly; but I know there's a whole lot of little zergling spawns on other sites.

1984 is a damn good book, but there's still the problem on selling it to some of the teenagers.
*cough* "Wot's is? If the guy dosnt like Big Bruvver, he can just turn it off, innit?" :)

My Father would still say that you have to read Silas Mariner though. And can you imagine doing a paper on H.P.Lovecraft?

(BTW, on Dan Brown, Angels and Demons is far better, and less read)

Ok this guy drives me nuts.... the dumbest generation? as opposed to over 100 years ago where only like half the population was literate?

He makes a few points, american teens dont know much outside the country. But you can't judge these people based on one guys statistics. I don't quite understand what kind of point this guy is trying to get through.

Seriously, don't blame technology and social networking for this. Blame your goddamn education system! I've seen down-town high schools in the states, no wonder kids don't find any interest in their education.

I swear its like these stupid politicians are trying to find scapegoats for societies' problems! Blame tv and bad music for violence! not the poor gun-laws and bad living standards. Blame video games for making kid stupid! BLAME TECHNOLOGY!

America isn't going downhill because of technology and social networking. Plenty of other countries have the same technologies, yet they don't have these issues.

I WAS JUST ABOUT TO FUCKING SAY THAT ABOUT A&D WITH THE ILLUMINATI AND BRANDING AND SHIT. yeah I got excited. quite true about a kid saying turn it off lolage Mclol lol, one more post and ur in 2008! After that never post again until next year and then you can only post once a year.

Derka Derka?

This Mark Bauerlein sounds like a shit teacher, especially when he calls his student's ignorant narcissists, like that is going to inspire them to study his out of touch books. He is also a serial abuser of statistics (as most people without a science education) when he berates a student for watching 2.5 hours of TV per day! Well following that logic; 10% of his sexual encounters should have been homosexual, he should be 20% African-American, has 1.2 siblings and is exactly 5' 9.3" tall.
Also what is the matter with relaxing for 2.5 hours a day (considering we 'waste' 8 hours a day with sleep) especially if they watch an educational channel from Nat-geo, Disco. or the big 'H'. Even the news (just as long as it's not FOX).

His basic argument is that teenagers are not using the internet for knowledge but for communicating with each other. He also implies that people in their 20s fall into this group with his under 30s sticker. This is patently ridiculous considering the popularity of Wikis, search engines, current affairs blogs and youtube video on everything from presidential candidates to budding journalists with their "expose" reports. For some inane reason he has latched onto social networking which is little more than a virtual bulletin board for events and keeping in touch. It's like he's blaming his wife's cooking on her gossiping too much, maybe her cooking is shit because he is an asshole and also why his students make no effort.

I'm sorry the library and the Smithsonian website. He is a "fuddy-duddy" if he thinks these places are engaging for teenagers and young adults. Most libraries have no where near as much readily available information as Wikipedia or a regular search engine plus they are intimidating places with strict rules like no food, no talking, no phones, no music, no friends, no space, no privacy, inconvenient location and opening hours. The idea of just trying to look for information in what your are interested in is impossible as you have thousands of books but have no idea where the info is as they are only ORDERED ALPHABETICALLY BY TITLE. And we all know you can't judge a book by it's cover.

I think Mark Bauerlein's major problem is he is trying to get student to learn by telling them it is important when clearly it is not as important than getting a skill for a job and enjoying their youth while they have it. He needs to push forms of entertainment that have a basis in history and the arts, COD fans will love WWII history, MGS3 fans will love 1960's cold war politics, anyone who was disappointed by I Am Legend will love to read the book that is SO much more satisfying (I really do recommend it, even if you get the audiobook, put it on your ipod and bask in the glory of classic sci-fi-horror). If humanities are so good then how about he proves that.

Unfortunately I can't view the actual video (an infested laptop's driven me to hoping around public access terminals) but I think I've got the gist of it: this git has written a book, and is thus promoting it. Said book is about how 'stupid' or 'dumb' the 'millennial' (anyone under 30, I presume?) generation is. He's using highly questionable sources, most of which are statistics or anecdotes, making them immediately suspect anyway. His target is American youth, and the major factors of modern idiocy appear to be: the American educational system, poor parenting, the internet/technology boom, and the generation itself, as a result of the previous three factors. The big issue seems to be that he is generalizing his sample/studies/whatever he did that qualifies him to say what he's saying to the population (i.e. everyone he's never met). This is a big no-no. If I missed an important point please let me know.

The most blatant first point, in my mind, is: if technology (judging by everyone else's comments that seems a big issue with him) is devolving us into gasping fish creatures, why have so many other tech obsessed countries not found the same fate? I'm sure someone can forge a comeback to this and deliver it via rapier wit.

Surprisingly no one has pulled the, always fun, IQ argument against this guy. There are a fair number of studies suggesting, to the point where it has been mentioned in several of my psychology text books, that the average IQ has significantly increased with every generation. I'm lazy (gasp!) and already approaching long winded, so I won't bother with links no one will investigate. Also: statistics. Ick.

However, many have mentioned the idea that people are well versed in what interests them. Others have dismissed this point, arguing in favor of a well rounded, overall education. Since I'm already skeptical of the validity of IQ testing (outside determining if some one is, say, functionally retarded for legal reasons) I'm not going to hold it up as some shining beacon of a solution to the argument, partially because it tends to favor the second opinion.

But this idea of different types of 'smart' is already being, and has been for a while, investigated by psychology and sociology. I personally subscribe to the theory, and think that the U.S.'s role as a 'melting pot' has something to do with this 'you're all dumb!' ranting. Think about it; most of us have lived their lives in a highly diverse society and culture (if you have internet connection I, optimistically, believe you do live thusly). Different cultures value different forms of knowledge and, regardless of whether the parent is good, bad or even competent, this is impressed upon the offspring through the family.

This is also where the old generation vs new generation conflict might arise: mom and dad moved to the U.S. right after they were married and had you. They wanted you to have a better life here than 'back in the old country' and you, in living that better life, have found you want to pursue the fine, nuanced art of socializing when dad thinks you should be learning how to hoe potatoes. Where or why you're going to hoe potatoes in the suburbs no one knows, but it's his opinion and he's grumpy. You buy him a hoe as a joke gift for the holidays. Gardening tool based chaos ensues. Mom blackmails you photographic evidence of the holiday you 'ruined' until her long over due death.

Or maybe they were just average middle class all American Joes and Janes who wanted the average middle class life for their family. Their kid hits adolescence and starts attempting to tamper with their assembly line lifestyle. They join the student amnesty international group. Mom and dad, who meddled a bit in the hippie movement back in the day, uneasily encourage them. Then the kid spends alot of time online, refuses to do sports, dyes his hair. Mom and dad are getting upset. Kid comes out as gay and moves in with a group of other homosexual teenagers at 16. Dad disowns kid. Mom still writes letters (she never figured out the email), and is always commenting on how nicely the kid and his boyfriend have decorated. The kid's otherwise doing alright for himself.

I won't use anecdotes, because I experienced a less than conventional childhood and adolescence, but I will say I'm the product of a mixed marriage as I'm sure many of you are. I also live in a major metropolitan area and go to a state university with a highly diverse student population. I talk with my peers and have a difficult time finding people I think are outright stupid. Even in high school I found locating out and out morons a challenge. When there's a disagreement it's more often than not because we're approaching the topic from completely different places; I would hate to be a business major, but I came from a financially stable home and don't have to work three jobs to get through college. I'm not looking for a stable nine to five when I graduate. When I confuse people with 'big words' it's often because they're bi-lingual, which is more than I can say for myself (literally, ha! Terrible pun). Sometimes it's because I'm using words common with my culture, but not theirs. If they should know the word it's usually me mocking them for their lack of knowledge. People complain about idiots constantly, but really, we're all idiots to someone at sometime, yeah?

God I'm tired. What the hell was I talking about again? Was I going somewhere with this? Oh. Yeah.

Right, so, generalizing to the population = bad. Don't do that. Of course, it's all merely my opinion. I feel like I should write more, but I hear the tiny screams of 'god no! enough! quiet already!' and my desire to always address and analyze a topic from every conceivable angle and go off on rhetorical tangents is wearing on even my nerves. I feel bad for my TAs.

p.s. Regarding knowledge of history? You just need enough to realize that everything has more than one, and almost inevitably hundreds, of causes. For some this means lots and lots of history classes, for others just one (and presumably a really good history teacher). Again I'm optimistic that that will color most topics one thinks about thereafter, encouraging further research simply for the sake of knowing.

I completely and totally agree with this guy. I don't think he's being arrogant- you can defend your/my generation if you like, but don't defend it just because you see it as 'yours'. We aren't on a team, we don't like each other that much.

EDIT: AND too many people are getting worked up because you think he's calling you stupid for being in the generation- 'He's generalizing, I'M NOT LIKE THAT WAAAAAAAAH!'

He's talking about a generation... he's going to generalize. It's about the statistics and figures, don't take it so personally.

Well it is one thing to say that generally this generation is under-performing but he clearly is not taking this as a general example but applying the average to all people, I mean his book has the subtitle "don't trust anyone under 30". With life expectancy as it is he is saying 50% of the population can go to hell, also by the "not complete citizen if you don't read my books" implies that they don't deserve the vote either.

This is not a thesis for how to improve society, he is just trying to make some money by selling books to old people to bitch about how awful the young generation is, as if his parents weren't doing the exact same thing in the 60's and 70's.

Generally, I think every generation of every society is not as good as it could be, I mean he is complaining about our generation, that is more affluent, literate, cultured and open to more new ideas and points of view with less class or racial boundaries than ever before. I mean he is complaining that his student's are not interested in Anthony and Cleopatra!

Mark imagines the UN response: "Oh my GOD! This is awful, we can't waste our time and money on food convoys to Darfur when a whole generation of Americans are growing up without embracing classical literature!!"

The_root_of_all_evil:

Heh. Read Macbeth sometime. It's got lots of guts and swordfights. :)

Seriously, it does, quite funny too.

HBrutusH:

The_root_of_all_evil:

Heh. Read Macbeth sometime. It's got lots of guts and swordfights. :)

Seriously, it does, quite funny too.

Or Hamlet.

*EDIT* would Neo-Luddite or Technophobic be a better descriptor for this stream of inanity?

That guy sure does like to talk alot....

*goes to myspace*

ZOMG, Craig and Sharon broke up!

MY WORLD IS OVER!!!