Beat Writer  Posts: 182 Joined: 22 Feb 2008     | |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1829 Joined: 13 Feb 2008    | Nursing = years of study, huge amounts of stress, not much appreciation. Modeling = being born pretty, people talking pictures of you walking around. Wonder which is harder.... |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1571 Joined: 14 Oct 2007     | Celebrity vs Teacher in some outlying region. I don't see why this could need explaining. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2059 Joined: 6 Aug 2008 | My mum's a nurse so her job sucks. Examples: Models have to walk and look bored, soooo hard... Oh yeah and nurses in most cases get underpaid. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 209 Joined: 18 Aug 2008   | It's funny, I'm thinking of going into teaching but the money doesn't bother me. It'll be enough to live on, I just want to do something I enjoy. They should be paid more though - it's a very undervalued profession. |
Beat Writer Posts: 209 Joined: 16 Jun 2008   | Do you really need a lot of discussion on whether modelling is harder than nursing? |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1571 Joined: 14 Oct 2007 | Oh, I'm so totally siding with the models. Have you any idea how much they suffer for their personal image? How riling it is to get into a dress, have their hair done, get out of a dress, repeat? And the media, oh, it's enough to make ones heart break! They're living, breathing skeleton-like human beings! Can't you people have enough sympathy to see this? [insert Chris Crocker impersonation here] |
Paperboy  Posts: 46 Joined: 16 Aug 2008    | One of my close friends is a model and it isn't as easy as it looks like, she is always running around the place having to do stuff for the shows and shoots she is a part of and things. She can get quite overwhelmed at times. It is all very competitive so she can't afford to piss a client off because she just won't be hired again. There isn't any sort of job security or staple income until you are in demand and under a contract. Also you can only really be a model for a small amount of time, it is not exactly a job for life. In saying this nursing is definitely the harder job. Nursing is probably one of the hardest jobs I think. It is really so much effort for so little in return, like you are helping people which is great but you don't have a good salary, you have to do really gross jobs and you are around sick people all day. Plus the hours are long and hard often in shifts at awkward times which would most likely interfere with any hopes of a social life. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1618 Joined: 29 Dec 2007   | Man, I hate it when we all agree. There's a reason that we can't pay nurses, teachers, firefighter, etc. for the things they do. It's just impractical. While our society relies on their services, we simply cannot afford to pay them the big bucks(or at least medium-sized bucks) that celebrities and models make. Imagine for a moment, if your national government had to pay for an army of supermodels. The taxes would be horrific and the only possible way you could accomplish that without mass rioting would be under a communist regime(I don't even think socialism could muster the resources to give public servants a competitive salary). So, combine the impracticality of the free-market pay/worth system, with the fact that there is a small, highly profitable group of models(with TV, a model can advertise for millions of people) as opposed to a large, government funded legion of teachers(maybe 120 students daily), and you'll see why you just can't pay them the same. While you might argue that morally, it is abhorrent and a sign of social decay, you cannot argue that to pay teachers the "fair" amount, it would require social and economic changes that the Average Joe will be hard pressed to tolerate. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1571 Joined: 14 Oct 2007 |
The idealist in me is jumping up and down screaming "Kick the models, pay the nurses!". Especially as health care systems are falling over due to unfair working conditions. |
Muckraker  Posts: 344 Joined: 2 Jul 2008 | I don't understand this thread. Surely it undermines your initial comparison that there are a great many more Nurses than Supermodels, or that there are no Supermodels that decided at some early point in their career between modeling and nursing. It is a bit like saying which job is more dangerous for a man: Garbage Collector or Astronaut? By the way, don't dismiss this on the grounds that Garbage Collectors are not encountering life-threatening hazards. There was one recently in Essex (UK) who was in a dark alley on his own picking up what he thought was a plastic bag and it turned out to be a live Boa Constrictor. |
Paperboy  Posts: 30 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 |
Te-he. Erm I don't understand why this topic needs explaining. |
Muckraker  Posts: 337 Joined: 22 Jan 2008 |
Yes we fucking can. Models, celebrities, practically everyone in front of a camera is grossly, and I mean grossly, overpaid relative to what they do. I'm an engineer - I build shit that could result in numerous deaths if I fuck it. Ideally, I'd be paid an appropriate amount when my designs are of sufficient quality to ensure such doesn't happen. I am not. Celebs used to be well-treated because their lot in life was an otherwise pathetic one - a short career (if you lived) and usually a painful end. This has ONLY not been the case in more recent eras. Now, we gush over them like their words are spoken by the Emperor Himself. Now, I will not say that entertainers and the like should be the lowest-paid members of society - but they should be paid relative to the worth they provide. And currently, the worth they provide is nowhere near what they're being paid. |
Beat Writer Posts: 182 Joined: 22 Feb 2008 |
It's just a template to summarise why skill doesn't always reflect pay, and why this is? When it comes to business why is there no 'Civil Court' (i.e. everything has to be morally justified) when it come to your effort and input into the advancement of society. If models made just 'a little bit more' than nurses maybe a thread would have been a waste of time, but sadly money runs the world, and it's flow I think is corrupt. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 63 Joined: 15 Dec 2007 | I more get the impression the the nurses vs models thing was only a kick-off example. I don't particularly have anything that comes to mind. Actually, maybe I do. Teaching vs manual labour (specifically baggage handling in this case) Obviously here we're going for physical vs psychological. Given I recently changed from the former to the latter (summer job = monies) I'm a little surprised to have had a much more 'WTF am I doing here?' feeling about the teaching. At least now if I screw up I've only got to answer to one or two people who'll get angry then send me off to the next job. In teaching you've got 30-odd screaming kids and when you lose control you're stuck with them until the next bell, which could be hours. Let's get some more ideas, people! |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 97 Joined: 14 Aug 2008 | I'd have to say that what you're payed is a direct correlation to how many could do your job. The sad thing is that for all the shit that nurses or teachers have to dredge through (sometimes literally) it's still a job that anyone can go to school to learn to do. The reason Brad Pitt makes the big bucks is because no one can go to school to be Brad Pitt; sure you can go to acting school but how many actors and actress' are out there these days that aren't performing their desired profession, at least a dozen. and here's my question: Senators VS. CEOs who has it worse? |
Beat Writer Posts: 182 Joined: 22 Feb 2008 |
I thinks it's worth mentioning that before Brad was born, people weren't waiting for the 'Brad Pitt vacancy' to be filled, looking like you do shouldn't be held so sacredly, 'No one will ever be like you' applies to everyone, but certain cultures decide what's beautiful and aesthetically pleasing to that culture only, meaning it's not a universal truth, also meaning it should be disposable...and it's not :( But bringing up pay based on how many could do your job is an amazing point, creating ethical Pro's & Con's in my head that hurt. |
Muckraker Posts: 344 Joined: 2 Jul 2008 |
Ok. I think I'm getting to grips with the subtext here. It seems that many are unhappy with glamourous celebrities being remunerated much more than nurses/teachers/garbage collectors. Aside from the irony that misbehaving celebrities are regularly given Community Service that involves picking up litter by the side of the highway, or performing morale-boosting hospital visits, whilst being rejected from a panel of jurors (when called for jury service) as those in charge of jury selection regard their presence as too much of a distraction. It would seem that the fundamental gripe isn't with Supermodels, or "Celebrity", but our current form of post-modern Capitalism which makes heroes and heroines out of the beautiful and scandalous through a commercially biased Media. Even the news is tainted by the need to "sex itself up" with a smattering of entertainment stories. Although, it is not unreasonable that these events should be reported somewhere in the 24hrs rolling-news milieu it is worth examining the 'running order' of these stories in the headlines at the turn of each hour. Perhaps a celebrity marriage wouldn't have been placed ahead of a Chinese earthquake twenty years ago (I seem to recollect a time when the only celebrity stories that made it onto the news involved the British Royal Family, I think that first changed with Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor...), this can be partly explained by the news organization 'not having live pictures from the earthquake zone in China (yet)', however, more of its viewers must want to see Angelina Jolie's twins, or a litter of cute baby pandas, or the Olympics opening ceremony. That said, any utopian suggestions of a society where you were paid depending on how many others could do your job has to be tempered with some pragmatism. Assume such a society existed, with a taxation system and administrative government (please explain otherwise, if you think these elements are not needed), the members of that government would be... elected? Are we not considering a democracy? If not how do you avoid the tendency for centralized bureaucracy to tend toward self-serving totalitarianism. Then who gets to be a citizen? Everyone? Do supermodels get to be citizens? Can anyone be elected to government by their fellow citizens? What are the restrictions and qualifications? If you are required, by law, to have a University Degree in order to become a politician will that not disenfranchise many and within a generation create a resentful unrepresented underclass? So, logically, if you have a society where any idiot can get elected your first act would be to rip apart the fabric of the utopian fair-pay law, as, by its definition, you would discover you were paid the minimum wage (plus overtime for the long hours of paperwork and committee chairing you would be required to do) as any idiot could do your job. The reality is somewhat more ridiculous. We currently have a male supermodel, not known for his great intelligence (but that is unfair), who is Governor of the State of California. Whose fault is this? Capitalism? The Kennedys? The (Hispanic) electorate? The previous incumbent of the office being so useless anyone would be better? Or... The Great American Media who progressively persuaded the electorate to the idea that 'if he looks like a dependable heroic leader, he must be one', by first making them accept a Body-builder with an archetypal heroic physique 'play' the part of Hercules with a dubbed voice-over. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1435 Joined: 27 Mar 2008  |
It's actually kinda hard to be a Senator if you haven't previously been a CEO (or otherwise rich). You get a huge salary, yes, but you're also expected to do shit like maintain a residence in your home state. There was a scandal a while back because Santorum, who is one of the "poorest" members of Congress (also one of the fundie-est, but that's a different topic), had a sham house back in Pennsylvania because he couldn't afford the real thing. Also, there are several junior Congressmen who share a tiny apartment in the city. And campaigning for the job really sucks if you're not rich already, too. -- Alex |
Beat Writer  Posts: 167 Joined: 6 Aug 2008 | This discussion reminds me of this stupid video I saw over on Videosift a while back where it was beutiful people complaining about how "hard" they had it in life... these really attractive women complaining that people were always hitting on them, or about how people were always giving them the benefit of the doubt because they were pretty without really getting to know them or somesuch... oh boo hoo... The comments about the video were the best part. |
Muckraker  Posts: 342 Joined: 17 Apr 2008  |
Not all the variables have been taken into account. The reason that the model is paid so much has nothing to do with ease of the job (as you've pointed out). Since (s)he's pretty, being pretty is rare, and there's a huge demand for pretty they get the money for their time. There are also plenty of jobs that pay the big bucks and the person incredibly busy. Just don't hear about them as much since the jobs are not always photogenic. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 145 Joined: 19 Aug 2008 |
Same here, except my mom has worked in quite a few different sections of the hospital, intensive care, maternity ward (sp?) and a few others so she's seen everything from people dying to someone giving birth, which is pretty amazing, now that I think about it. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 108 Joined: 14 Aug 2008 | Senators vs. CEOs? Depends if we are talking about the average Senator/CEO. If we are, then I say neither. |
Beat Writer Posts: 209 Joined: 16 Jun 2008 |
I sincerely hope you're being sarcastic. Sincerely. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 95 Joined: 20 Aug 2008  |
Yeah my mum's a nurse too, or at least she WAS one. Now she teaches. Apparently they're not even allowed to accept gratuities or anything, for making people HEALTHY?! Not tips! The whole celebrity/model/footballer thing is just beyond me. Some footballers (soccer players) get paid more in a week than a nurse does in a year! What the hell is that?! Supply and demand sure, but the amount of money flying around football itself could save a few countries I'm sure!! It's really upsetting to see sometimes! |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1367 Joined: 12 Sep 2007   | Hey, supermodels have it rough! They have to do everything regular models do PLUS fight crime, and all without eating. More seriously, I don't think models have to be all that pretty. They have to be tall and very thin, for some reason that's always baffled me - in the USA you're attempting to sell clothing to women averaging as big as cars in poorer countries, and you're modeling them on a woman with the alluring figure of a coat rack. WTF? And models need symmetrical, fairly blank faces that talented make-up artists can paint for different effects. Howard_Hughes has it right - for all jobs where your salary is set by someone else, that salary is set by how many people can do your job, or at least are perceived to be able to do your job, as much as for the value of your work (except of course where the law sets the salary.) People pay Brad Pitt obscene amounts of money because they perceive that having Brad Pitt in their movies will entice people to pay to see them. A talented but unknown actor cannot do that. The converse can be said for the kid working the window at Wendy's - he's easily replaced. CEOs have it worse because Senators seldom get sent to prison for the same behavior. As for mine, firemen and interior decorators. Are there really more people willing to run into a burning building than there are people willing to paint that building's walls ugly colors? |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 919 Joined: 14 May 2008 | right got off topic there. My job consists of setting up a mini network of cameras and computers and then sitting at a computer and making sure it prints out id cards for school registration. I have probably the easiest job ever. Until someone fucks up horribly and the network crashes then the line gets backed up because some of our photographers are retards and don't know how to use the camera so I have to take their place and tell them to sit down and yell if you see any of the lights on the computer screen turn red. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3777 Joined: 29 Nov 2007  | Modeling= Keeping your weight exactly between 1xx and 1xx with a two pound difference between the two. Intense hair training to get it to lay the way the photshoot requires. Keeping a healthy look, keeping a balanced diet with proper exercise. Not putting on too much muscle (for women). Havign certain chest sizes (for men). NO ACEN/BLEMISHES. There's alot of mental and physical training in modeling. It requires A LOT more than just being pretty. Otherwise there'd be MANY more models. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 97 Joined: 14 Aug 2008 |
Firemen have it worse, running into burning buildings to save people and the occasional 'burnt remains in the wreckage' doubly so if they belong to a child.
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Here's an example;
Nurses Vs Supermodels
Do you think modelling is harder and requires more skill than nursing? Is it good enough that models are born beautiful and should now receive everything that their looks endorse? Do you know anyone who has (or have you) worked in either trade?
Take into account as many factors as you can think of; Pay, stress levels, perks of the job, advancement & longevity of career.
If you have to raise other career paths to make your point, then so be it.