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Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 606 Joined: 26 Sep 2008     | |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 75 Joined: 8 May 2008     | I have the same attitude towards vegetarians as I have towards Christians. "You and I have a different way of life but if we don't dwell upon this difference too much, we'll get along just fine." If either tries to tell me that not doing as they do makes me Satan, then the relationship has rather poor prospects for the future. Vegetarianism has some benefits, I admit. It really seems the animal farm industry is hurting the environment and of course eating too much meat is bad for your health. But that's the thing. It seems perfectly reasonable for me to limit the amount of animal products I eat, but I don't see why I am a sinful barbarian if I eat any at all. It has been discussed before, but the "we can't slaughter the poor animals" argument seems very weak to me. Humans, like other animals have to kill other lifeforms to survive. I'm not the one who has come up with that. We don't kill (or have someone kill for us) - we die. If I could survive by watering myself and sticking my head out to sunshine it would be swell, but unfortunately I have to kill. Is it better to kill things that don't scream when they die? I dunno. Do plants lack a will to live? We can't say, but it's obvious they develop mechanisms that help them survive and in some cases - go figure - prevent them from being eaten. Ending on a supermarket shelf cut up into pieces is not the ultimate meaning of existence of a cow, but neither is it the meaning of existence of a carrot. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 1 Joined: 12 Nov 2008  |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_of_Adolf_Hitler As for the topic at hand, militant/pushy vegetarians are (imo) in the wrong, but there are a large amount of hypocritical meat eaters who will complain about "pushy" vegetarians one minute, and then joke about how they enjoy things like "I actually love vegetarians. Watching them get all foamy at the mouth while I eat a hamburger makes for good theater." Lastly, as for "Similarly studies have shown that Males cannot safely sustain themselves on a diet of Soy protien because of the estrogen content. It can increase our risks of various cancers because our bodies are not meant to handle that much estrogen.": http://www.soymilkquick.com/shouldmenworry.php I think a good quote here is "When you consider that millions of men in China, Japan and other Asian countries have had soy foods in their daily diets from earliest childhood, you can appreciate that the plant estrogens they contain have no discernible effect on male sexual development, and no feminizing effects at all. Given the huge populations of Asian countries there's no reason to think that soy affects male fertility, either." Shockingly, there is not a high rate of cancer amongst the men in China, Japan and other Asian countries. Indeed, if you take sources like: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_bre_can_inc-health-breast-cancer-incidence You can see that shockingly, the high-soy consuming countries have the lowest rate of breast cancer, despite that supposedly being associated with high soy consumption. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 863 Joined: 20 Dec 2007    |
Well , I live down in Texas and that's the reason I eat meat. Because it tastes so damn good. When you've got one of the best barbecue joints in the state near where you live with some of the best damn venison you'll ever have, you'll know why I'm not a vegetarian. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 429 Joined: 3 Oct 2008   |
Dude, I want to go to Texas so much. I wanna try true Texan Barbeque. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1306 Joined: 17 Jun 2008     |
Sp if we don't matter either why aren't you killing yourself right now? I mean, if we have no point, why not just slaughter other humans for food as well! It will be such fun! So if they don't have a "point" in life we might as well just raise them in shitty conditions and then off them huh? Yeah, sounds like a fantastic idea.
I swear that once I'm done with my research paper due Friday I'll make a post in there. And I can't resist this type of thing, I've lost a friend fighting about it recently. I'm still not going to stop, although I do hope everyone here just kinda gives up. Because I know it will get to the same thing it did last time... "OMG there were 80 posts since the last time you logged on and you didn't respond to mine? How dare you?
Akuushi covered that a couple of posts above me, and all I'll say is that you're wrong and your "studies" are wrong. You'll be just fine with soy, but oh well, be stubborn. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 429 Joined: 3 Oct 2008 |
When did I say humans have no point in life? Why don't you read my post before you quote it and shove words into my mouth. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 492 Joined: 24 May 2008    | This is probably been said somewhere, but the main reason meat-eaters don't like vegetarians is because some vegetarians are fairly militant about their ideas, and hostile towards meat-eaters. So, many meat-eaters get the idea that all vegetarians are like that. I for one don't care at all what you do to your own body. Vegetarians only annoy me when they actively try to. Actually, one of my best friends is a Vegan, but he changed diet purely for health reasons, and so isn't preachy about it. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1306 Joined: 17 Jun 2008 |
I'm sorry, when I read all of this:
I thought that was your position. Apparently I should have read "Everything I'm saying right now, read it as the complete opposite! |
On the Record  Posts: 6343 Joined: 22 Aug 2008     |
That was mostly Eggo to be honest, but I see your point. Sucks about losing the friend though ;/
Ta muchly.
Probably around here:
To be fair to Shivari's point, you did say we should start slaughtering each other. You also stated you viewed humans on the same levels as pigs, cows and dogs implying that humans are fine to eat, as all three of those (not sure about cats) are consumed on a fairly regular basis. Just sayin'. Edit: Shivari ninja'd me ;( |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1306 Joined: 17 Jun 2008 |
I always like disagreeing with friends on something, as that way we can debate about it and I respect them more as a result. She was weak, and couldn't take that someone else wasn't a gun-loving conservative that loves meat. And it's not like we went from being best friends to hating each other. She stopped sitting next to me in lunch, but is still friendly enough in Geometry, so it's alright. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 57 Joined: 4 Aug 2008   | Vegetarian, old Native American word meaning "Bad Hunter" |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 7 Joined: 12 Nov 2008   |
I just woke up so I can't actually be bothered to get a link. However, it goes along the fact of if you believe in global warming being caused my humans (which I personally dont, but that's a different matter alltogether) The most harmful gas to the environment is methane, it is around 3x as potent as C02, the mass amount of animals that are here, not because of nature but because of breeding create a huge amount. Then theres the fact of transportation, food production, fishing, preparing, whcih all adds to the C02 going into the environment, especially with things like trawler fishing etc. And finally theres something I read along the lines of, a meat eater needs a whole field worth of food in a lifetime where as two vegetarians can use the same amount of space. meaning meat production cuts down on space and real nature. For the record though none of that is some sort of STOP EATING MEAT!!! speech, I don't really care what other people do, but it's a good thing to know for arguments sake. |
Time Lord  Posts: 9760 Joined: 13 Feb 2008    | I counter all your arguments with canine teeth and underground coal fires. I then knock out your economy issues with the fact that one third of all food bought is destroyed in the U.K. Meat has a far longer use by date than vegetables. Also, the only reason that humanity can exist at it's current state is the mass production of vegetables/cereals; which was banned for meat. Once we lose fossil fuels, we will not be able to survive purely on vegetables/cereals. |
On the Record Posts: 6343 Joined: 22 Aug 2008 |
Interesting tangent: Couple of threads back there was a things that creep you out or things that you don't do or odd habits you had or something like that and a number of people expressed the fact that they refuse to eat vegetables and have done since a very young age (I believe on person quoted 3 or 4). I find it interesting how not one person in that thread pointed out to them that we have incisor teeth for a reason, that we are omnivores and we are currently at a stage in evolution where we best survive on a balanced diet. Now whether or not they're healthy with their diet of meat only is not the issue I wished to pick up upon here. It's that nobody questioned them. To me, at least, people who eat only meat are far, far rarer than Vegans/vegetarians. Why is it then, that no one questioned their choices, and yet when vegetarianism comes up you got 32 pages of rehashed arguments yet again about our canine teeth. I thought that was terribly strange, however I popped my head into the thread too late after they posted to give a decent reply, as I recall.
In comparison to the transportation, food production, farm machine for sowing seeds, preparation, which all adds to the C02 going into the environment for vegetables. Sorry, that point is as moot as could be. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 584 Joined: 17 Apr 2008   | I dont hate vegetarians, it's the one who start judging me for my meat eating or telling me how much the animals suffered. One time i was in a restuarant and i ordered rabbit medallions and my mates little brat of a sister got out a picture of her rabbit and started going on about how cruel it is to eat animals. If you think this isn't right don't do it, but don't preach to me or i will take the micheal, and this stands for anyone on any subject. Basically i just enjoy mock anyone with extremist view and a loud mouth. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 884 Joined: 19 Sep 2008   | I was a veggie all throughout high school, but I still got pissed off at other veggies who said that they were saving animals and the planet by not eating meat. I agrued that because they didn't buy the meat that was on the shelves, it was ultimately going to waste, meaning that the animal died for no reason. It did piss loads of people off, being a vegetarian and arguing against it, but I had fun. In all seriousness, I think everyone should try being one for a year or so. It really gives a different perspective on good food. Even now I eat and love meat again, I still often take vegetarian options in restaurants if I can see its going to be good. Especially Indian food. |
Paperboy  Posts: 30 Joined: 8 Oct 2008  |
Alright, so now you advocate that it's OK to kill SOMETIMES, like when it's necessary. If I'm not mistaken, the same argument is made for assasination. Again, you're missing my point. If you're going to kill for nurishment, don't discriminate or deprive yourself. Additionally, that's the thing about veggie lifestyle, is that it doesn't reaaly provide all the nutrition a body needs. I could live on a slice of bread and a cup of water a day, but that's not healthy at all. |
Paperboy Posts: 30 Joined: 8 Oct 2008 |
I'm sorry, so you're trying to tell me that NOT killing animals, which produce the methane that's the bane of all existence, and killing plants, which produce oxygen among other evironment friendly things, is HELPING the environment? Doesn't make much sense... |
Anonymous Source Posts: 7 Joined: 12 Nov 2008 |
It makes perfect sense when you consider that those animals are only here because they were bred in order to be eaten. If people didn't eat meat there would be no cows, no pigs etc. or atleast not anywhere near to the billions as there are today.
But meat produce uses all those things aswell, the feed for chickens, pigs, it all has to come from somewhere. The production of a vegetarian diet it alot less harmful to the environment than a omnivore diet. A way to look at is, you feed a heard of cows enough food to sustain a bigger group of people, so really you are using up perfectly good food in order just to create more of a different kind, which coming from a purely environmental standpoint, makes no sense. |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 6 Joined: 17 Sep 2008  | Ah, what a topic. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1434 Joined: 7 Jan 2008    |
Corn-fed vegetarians are the best you can get when they're farm-raised, but free-range and wild game vegetarians are better still. No problems here with dietary choice vegetarians, but since when one eats with a group including vegetarians the stereotype is for them not only to state their vegetarianism but also justify it in terms of the cute fuzzy calves, the tendency is to harbor an unspoken "stfu!". The resulting passive-aggressive behavior toward vegetarians should really surprise nobody. |
On the Record  Posts: 5945 Joined: 7 Feb 2008   |
You are correct about the studies madam, I have now done my research and realize it's a controversial topic. Hence I will say that I am stubborn, and unwilling to simply eat nothing but soy protien. For the record I have tried vegetarian soy replacements, Soy Ground Beef replacement is fine, Soy Dogs/Luncheon meat is fine. However in terms of other meats I enjoy soy is no replacement, you can't really get Soy Prociuto, Soy Ribs or Soy Steak. As well I see no reason why I should give these up. I realize you are passionate about the rights of animals and I respect that, but I feel life should be worth living and a life eating nothing but soy... is not one that appeals to me. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1306 Joined: 17 Jun 2008 |
And I think that an animal's life is worth way more than my taste buds.
Vegetarianism gives you everything you need, there wouldn't be any vegetarians if it didn't. So please, educate yourself on the topic.
There are more meat eaters, so there are a lot more people that blindly hate vegetarians. Just look at the Barbaric thread, it was all me on my side, and like 40 on the other side. The people who actually see how barbaric this person is are in the minority. I'd probably yell at this person as much as possible. Because, of course, everyone who doesn't agree with me is just like Adolf Hitler. So, now both sides have done the useless comparison to Hitler, we can end that discussion. |
On the Record Posts: 6343 Joined: 22 Aug 2008 |
Excuse me if I'm ignorant of the subject, but I was under the impression cows eat grass, something which generally I've found to grow quite naturally.
Yay Godwins? |
BANNED Posts: 953 Joined: 26 Apr 2008 |
Animals never kept other animals in tiny cages in which they spend their entire lives never being able to turn around. Never fed them a constant dose of antibiotics because they had put them in living conditions so filthy they'd die with out them. Never kept birds in cages with their beaks and legs chopped off. You get your hands on an animal and kill it, by all means, eat up. Until then I don't want to hear it. User was banned for: Pro-copyright proponents press propaganda on classrooms. (Permanent) |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2273 Joined: 13 Sep 2007  | The problem here is that this forum is not exempt from the odd behaviour surrounding vegetarians. Some of the most intelligent, reasonable people I've ever met suddenly get crazy defensive and and illogical the instant it comes up. It's weird I tell ya! |
BANNED Posts: 953 Joined: 26 Apr 2008 |
And that isn't me. But, you know, I'd really have to disagree with this idea that somehow vegetarians started this. We're too tiny. I don't think most of you have ever even seen one of us outside of the internet, and then you'd have to consider the internet "seeing" somebody. What I'm getting from this here is that a lot of you do that stupid stupid thing people do; project your perceptions outward. A vegetarian or a vegan probably has never directly said a damn thing to you in all your life, but you assume they're going to be overtly hostile, and so you attack them. It's pretty simple and stupid and common place. User was banned for: Pro-copyright proponents press propaganda on classrooms. (Permanent) |
Anonymous Source Posts: 7 Joined: 12 Nov 2008 |
Woopedy doo, cows eat grass, pigs dont, chickens dont, the fact cows eat grass doesnt detract from the fact they take up space that could be used for other things that are much more sustainable, besides most cows used for meat dont graze, they are given feed which has to be grown elsewhere and trasnported in. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3365 Joined: 8 May 2008   | My only problem with vegetarians or vegans is they never call ahead so they come in take a look at the menu, see the 3-4 vegetarian options I have given them then have the fucking audacity to complain about lack of options. Or they just whine and ask why cant I do this or that for them instead. The customer is not always right! The chef has absolutly no obligation to change the menu to suit people. Hence why when the dumbass waitress tells customers I will cook any type of meat to their liking I just point to the menu and get them to slowly and carefully point out which things the menu states that. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 606 Joined: 26 Sep 2008 |
True, but neither did I. My family patronizes local organic farms where such things aren't in practice. I'm all for hunting. I hate those who mutilate and abuse animals. And as for the cage thing, what do you call your cubicle at work? What do you call an "efficiency" apartment? |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 5 Joined: 14 Nov 2008   | As there are no ethical vegetarians here I shall act as an ambassodor for the small country of "neutral yet ethical vegetarian pacifists" :) Now I have no prejeduces against meat-eaters, I don't push my veiws on other people, they eat meat, good for them I couldn't care less what they ate in all honesty. If someone makes a joke, I'll take in good jest; it's only when they start waggling their bacon sandwhiches in my face it gets enfuriating. I mean I haven't done anything against them, nor do I heavily include it in conversation, they're veiws come from the stereotype portrayed by the media. This may sound like a "can't think of someone to blame, oh look lets blame soiciety" however this is a geniune contributor to the stereotype. I mean look at the previous posts, none of them considered themselves morally higher, and neither do I and if you speak to vegetarians in real life neither do they, infact only a small proportion of us act with a "holier than thou" attitude (or maybe they are plenty and I have had the pleasure of avoiding them.) (If theres any spelling mistakes in the post, I apologise to all you OCD grammar correcter, and I also send my deepest regrets to all of you about the tofu chunk joke, that was bad for me.) |
BANNED Posts: 953 Joined: 26 Apr 2008 |
??? User was banned for: Pro-copyright proponents press propaganda on classrooms. (Permanent) |
Paperboy Posts: 30 Joined: 8 Oct 2008 |
No, no, no, YOU failed to quote me properly. I fully aknowledge the fact that a pure meat diet is not sufficiently nutritious, but neither is a pure veggie diet. Of course it is easy now for people to be vegetarian, because there's plenty of syntesized crap to replace the stuff you'd need. You don't see any vegetarian athletes, and all vegetarians I know aren't always the picture of perfect health. True, they do not tend to be overweight, though a few are, but they do tend to be a bit out of shape. Plus, I'd like to see some verified research myself. Look, what this all boils down to is is that I'm not vegetarian, I don't think it's a good Idea, it's not natural, but that's my opinion and everyone is welcome to their own, so be be a vegetarian if you want, it's your life. PS- GET OFF IT WITH THE HITLER STUFF!!! It is quite possibly the worst argument on the face of the earth. I mean, anti-semitism, racism, anti-homosexual tendencies aside, the man was to Germany what Obama is to America. At least, in that time in German history. |
Paperboy Posts: 30 Joined: 8 Oct 2008 |
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Why don't vegeterrorists get upset when *animals* eat animals? If your precious animals can eat each other, so can I!
PS - Vegetarianism isn't as healthy as people claim it to be. Balance and quality are healthier than anything.
http://foodconsumer.org/7777/8888/N_utrition_35/090909562008_Vitamin_B12_may_prevent_brain_shrinkage.shtml