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Red Guard  Posts: 4821 Joined: 14 Oct 2007     | |
On the Record  Posts: 5780 Joined: 7 Mar 2008     | for me i kinda go between reading "great" novels and fluff. i think it's best to read a bit of both and can keep your interest as some of the "great" books are a rather dry read and the fluff can be a light read you can power through. i never read 1984, saw the movie as a kid and liked it tho i was a bit too young to really get the themes but i did get some of it. in school i had to read Animal Farm and it was one of the few books i enjoyed, the others being Anthem, similar to 1984, The Chrysalids, great sci fi, A Clockwork Orange, the UK version of it, and Sir Gwain and the Green Knight Orwell was a good writer, he lived at a very trying time in the world and saw what could happen if the Red Scare really did follow thru and his 2 biggest books were about that. even Anthem was like that too i personally loved reading A Clockwork Orange. it's a great novel and mostly told from the perspective of Alex. he's way more brutal in the book than the movie and the UK version has an extra chapter at the end. the sad part is Kubrick's copy didn't have that chapter and so he didn't put it in the movie, when he found out he was upset and it was one of his regrets not including it because it is a VERY important part of the book. the mark of a good writter tho is one who can transcend a genre and not be thought of a sci-fi or fantasy or horror or fiction author. he is just thought of as a writer. few can actually do different genres of writing sucessfully but once they do, then you have a truly great author |
Red Guard Posts: 4821 Joined: 14 Oct 2007 | I plan to read A Clockwork Orange at some point, because the movie was fantastic, and I've been told that the book is even better. Interesting though, to note the cross-overs between A Clockwork Orange and say, Crime And Punishment, which I'm currently reading. They're both well worth it as experiences, and comparisons. Fluff... requires definition. I do like some 'light' fiction, such as much of Pratchett because, despite the fact that many of his books are just variations on the same mould, they are fantastically written and quite hilarious. Jasper Fforde is another favourite. |
On the Record  Posts: 6362 Joined: 24 Apr 2008   | Im a Terry Pratchett diehard. All the books, all the art. I love his style, his wit and his intelligence. But i adore the fact that he has all of these things and still writes in an easy, uncomplicated manner. Its like seeing a Formula 1 driver take to a golf buggy, all the mastery is still there but it's made available to a lower common denominator. That, is skill. To have the power of a god but still the restraint to apply it subtly. The fool can read it and love the story, but there is innumerable other layers of depth that mean you enjoy to your full capacity and ability, and aren't cluttered with things you do not understand. When i learned he has Alzheimer's i was quite upset. I still am. |
Red Guard Posts: 4821 Joined: 14 Oct 2007 | The layering that Pratchett uses is fantastic. I keep finding more and more jokes each time I re-read his books, which never seem to lose appeal either. Always an achievement. I can't claim to have read all his books, but I'm only about 2 off from Discworld (Reaper Man and Sourcery) with my favourites so far being Soul Music and Thief Of Time. The former has so much that appeals to my musical nature, and the many puns make me laugh as much as they can make me want to beat my head against a wall. Thief Of Time however, includes many ideas and plot features which just appeal to my every nature, along with Pratchett's characteristic wit and charm. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3592 Joined: 3 Apr 2008     | I do enjoy Sci-Fi Novels.. I have just finished the Cassandra Kresnov Trilogy... Awesomeness abounds... |
Beat Writer  Posts: 140 Joined: 18 Aug 2008     | I like interesting human characters. I am on this huge Richard Matheson kick. I have read I Am Legend twice in the last six month and Robert Neville is flawed but in a human way. I liked the sheer moments of terror that he experienced in the novel, especially when his "best friend" was terrorizing him. I even liked the ending. That novel was perfect. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1679 Joined: 29 Dec 2007    | I'll read just about anything political. From 1984 to Anthem to The Prince, I'll read 'em all. I intend to acquire a copy of Mein Kampf and Das Kapital but I'm not sure I can be seen with those books and not be put on some sort of government watch list. As for general reading, I generally latch onto an author and will not stop until I've committed their entire works to memory. So far Frank Herbert has met such a fate(and I read that series he did about the water planet before Dune), and R.A. Heinlein and Vonnegut will soon follow. Oddly enough, I've never read any Pratchett books though I keep hearing people sing their praises, I guess I just haven't got around to them yet. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1654 Joined: 21 Aug 2008   | Ah, 1984. A classic, and fast becoming more relevant than ever. Although honestly, I have to say I enjoyed Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 more, as far as that sort of novel goes. The ending's considerably less "depressing" depending on your point of view. I can't say I especially envy the great writers. It might sound arrogant to say, but I know the burdens of being a person of intellect living in a world that celebrates stupidity. Having to cope with that is difficult enough for me. But having to deal with that zipping around one's mind, in addition to the potential write such excellent, thought provoking fiction? I fear I would not survive the mental stress. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1664 Joined: 9 Aug 2008    | I read 1984 when I was... 15? I think. Freshmen in high school. I liked it alot, I'd like to read it again. For me, I think the best kind of literature has an underlying theme or message. I dislike the "just for entertainment" kind of books for some reason, I don't know why. I liked them as a kid, but even then I read alot more non-fiction books about animals than I ever did about magical tales or anything. I did, however, really enjoy the Redwall series as a kid. Apart from that, all of my books are the "game changer" type. The ones that make a big impact or have an underlying message. "1984" was one of my early favs. I also really enjoyed "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley. I'm a big fan of Ayn Rand's novella "Anthem" and found it easily accesible unlike "Atlas Shrugged" which I never really got around to reading. Really good stuff. "World War Z" is probably the closest thing to that sort of book we have that is relevant to our generation and I love it. It's my favorite book. I'm the sort of person who believes in staying relevant and up with my own generations arts and I think "World War Z", in the future, will be looked back upon as a real period piece due to this age of ours being defined by global crisis, war, natural disasters, and viral scares abroad. Not that I'm comparing Max Brooks to George Orwell, but I like that book alot, and anyone who hasn't read it yet is missing one of the best reads out there. If more books could just capture me, grasp me from the start, and make me interested, I would probably read alot more fiction, but most books are very unimaginative in my opinion and its hard for me to find fiction now-a-days that's a compelling read. If I'm allowed to mention graphic novels, if more actual novelists had the imaginations of Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman, I'd undoubtedly read more fiction. "The Watchmen", "The Sandman", and "Road To Perdition" are some of the best reads ever... and all of them are graphic novels. And to prove that it works in just letters, I point to Neil Gaiman's "American Gods" (also a book with an underlying message) as a perfect example, and one of my favorite books. I've never been one for the high fantasy or weird sci-fi books. They never really capture me or my imagination. I find it all very unrelatable and while I am a very imaginative person, those things aren't interesting to my imagination in particular. I'd rather read an interesting biography or a non-fiction title like "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" or "A Fighter's Heart" (both experimental journalism books) than the next Harry Potter or Discworld book. I'm open to the ideas and what not, but usually they just don't interest me at all. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2767 Joined: 13 Feb 2008   | I read quite a bit of "great" literature, probably because my English major of a brother shoves a stack of books that "I totally have to read" at me every time I come home. He got me hooked on Ursula K Leguin and Kurt Vonnegut. Not sure if that's how you spell their names, but opening a new tab to google is just so much work. |
Red Guard Posts: 4821 Joined: 14 Oct 2007 | In all seroiusness, I've found the current mainstream lifestyle of looking up to 'celebrities' and looking down on everything else to be very Brave New World-esque. It's quite depressing. Added to that the fact that webspeak is really quite similar to Newspeak, and we really are in the shit. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1585 Joined: 5 May 2008     | I'm an avid reader myself, nothing better than a good book in my opinion. I'm a sucker for anything by Chuck Palahniuk (Lullaby, Haunted, Fight Club, Choke etc.) his dark satire never ceases to make me laugh. I also love all of Chuck Klosterman's novels (Sex, Drugs & Cocoa Puffs is probably his most well known one) and I love the Cirque Du Freak series by Darren Shan (The movies are going to be dreadful by the looks of things though.) Douglas Adams is another favorite of mine, the Hitchhiker's series is brilliant, I even enjoyed the movie. I like Dan Brown as well, even though his writing isn't great. But my favorite author of all time is Edgar Allen Poe, his poetry inspires me quite a bit, and I love his short stories. My favorite would have to be The Graveyard. That is a piece of genius. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1664 Joined: 9 Aug 2008 |
I've made this statement in the past and I agree completely. Its very scary how similar things are getting. |
Red Guard Posts: 4821 Joined: 14 Oct 2007 |
Californication, really. And a degree of the dumbing down of people as a whole. It really doesn't help that mass society just begs for a shepard, and often gets ones which glorify stupidity. It's half the reason I'm so spiteful and cynical. I'll say this for books like that. I love the ones with political themes, social commentary and psychological basis. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1664 Joined: 9 Aug 2008 |
Sounds like you need to read World War Z by Max Brooks. |
Red Guard Posts: 4821 Joined: 14 Oct 2007 |
I'll add it to the shelf. Seriously, I have an entire collection of books I need to read. And I'm slowly collecting more. It's times like these I kind of miss insomnia just a little. It doubled my free time. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2582 Joined: 6 Jun 2008    | No one has said it so I will. Read the Mars trilogy (by Kim Stanley Robinson) right now. It's a great science fiction story about a joint venture by several countries to terraform Mars. It then becomes a debate to what degree Mars should be terraformed. And of course Mars independence. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1585 Joined: 5 May 2008 |
I love that book, as well as his other one The Zombie Survival Guide |
Red Guard Posts: 4821 Joined: 14 Oct 2007 | On that note. I'm going to start a sub-thread list of books you must read before you die. Feel free to add to it. 1984 |
On the Record Posts: 5780 Joined: 7 Mar 2008 |
there's a good message to Clockwork Orange, the movie was REALLY good and almost a perfect movie version of the book, yes they took out some stuff but left a LOT of the important stuff in there, i read the book an independant book for my last year in high school and then i watched the movie, so not to taint myself
i mean fluff as stuff that is a rather light read that doesn't have a very deep message to it, like Stephen King or the Forgotten Realms books and such.
i just finished reading it, the part with the dog made me sad, you can't help but feel bad for him at that point. the book was brilliant tho he did a lot of Twilight Zone episodes and also 2 Master of Horror episodes, tho his son helped with them, his son is also Richard Matheson too but goes by Richard Christian Matheson Those putting The Prince in fiction, while it's a great book it's not fiction, it's non-fiction and shows you how to run a principality and is great way to win a game of Civilizations |
Red Guard Posts: 4821 Joined: 14 Oct 2007 |
Exactly. Have you read any of his Discourses? That's equally fascinating. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2582 Joined: 6 Jun 2008 | oooh, I liked A Brave New World. It was an upbeat 1984. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2921 Joined: 22 Jun 2008  | Ah, the written word, without which this forum would only be an extension of the chan. I particularly enjoyed Jordans' work on the Wheel of Time. The sheer epicness of scale and flow of the plot just carried itself through three months of my life. Lots of deep, rich characters. Loved how he described combat, especially. /fanboy Also, I couldn't possibly leave out my avatar. Salvatore has given us perhaps the most memorable fantasy character ever to stalk the Realms, or even perhaps literature itself. The essays laiden between each few chapters are very well written as well. My list is still being added to mentally. The Belgariad/Mallorean |
Beat Writer  Posts: 193 Joined: 30 Apr 2008     |
Machiavelli...was an Italian right? He was a Renaissance philosopher I know that. Or maybe a better term might be a political thinker. I can't remember what he wrote about (its been too long since I learned about him) |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1664 Joined: 9 Aug 2008 |
Well, you should move it to the top of your list then. You know why? Cuz its got zombies. |
Red Guard Posts: 4821 Joined: 14 Oct 2007 |
Pretty much yeah. He wrote about governance, for the most part. |
On the Record Posts: 5780 Joined: 7 Mar 2008 |
and it's rather boring too but an interesting read and as i said great for using to win a game of Civilizations as well |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2659 Joined: 4 Nov 2007 |
He's best known for The Prince, a how to guide for being a monarch/dictator, based on his experiences with Florentine politics. It was basically the first time realpolitik was spoken of out loud, which scandalised European culture and made his name a definition for "treacherous liar/politicker": in Othello, Iago compares himself to Machiavelli - saying something like "I am the treacherous Machiavel..." Of course, it didn't change the fact that he was essentially right about how politics was done in the day. |
Beat Writer Posts: 159 Joined: 4 Feb 2008    | Since all good English books will probably be recommended by someone here, I can recommend some good Scandinavian literature. One of the most influential writers in Scandinavian literature is Aksel Sandemose. His most known work is arguably a fugitive crosses his tracks. It's not a page-turner, but it contains some relevant commentary on human beings still. One of the large Scandinavian present-day authors are Jan Guillou, who wrote the Knight Templar trilogy. It's historical fiction about the Swedish boy Arn whom is believed to be destined by god to become knight templar. Unlike 99% of the books about the knights templar this does not involve black magic, satanism or conspiracy theories. Rather it is a pretty well-researched historical novel. It's a pretty exciting read, although it's literary value is not on par with "A refugee crosses his tracks". Hunger by Knut Hamsun is also a very important novel in Scandinavian literary history. I remember that I wasn't impressed by it, but then I were not a very mature reader when I read it. They often say that Shakespeare was the best author ever, and that Ibsen is a close second. Me, I'm not impressed by any of them, but Peer Gynt is a pretty good play. Mind you, it doesn't rhyme it English as it does in Norwegian. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 586 Joined: 27 Apr 2008   | Interesting fact about Sir Gawain and the Green Knight something I wrote a Uni Thesis about, if you read the Morte d' Arthur. Sir Gawaine is a wide eyed happy clappy Knight and quite annoying at the start of the story. He engages in a metamorphosis through the course of the book and becomes an embittered cynic. The timelines of both books intersect and it can be stated that Sir Gawain's metamorphosis is chronicled in the Green Knight even though it was written about a decade before at the least and Malory claimed never to have read it... So how is that for an odd synchronicity |
Red Guard Posts: 4821 Joined: 14 Oct 2007 |
Hence, Discourses. Which is about Rome, and an absolute must for political students. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2353 Joined: 14 Sep 2007   | I just got out of Jonathan Swift's 'Gulliver's Travels', which is easily one of the best books I've ever read and proves Swift as a satirical genius. It's amazing to see the character Gulliver change from a fresh-faced adventurer to a lonsesome misanthrope, to see Swift viciously rip apart man's hubris and society's problems, and damn if it isn't funny at times. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1113 Joined: 19 May 2008   |
Sandemose is greatly overrated in my opinion. If you want some Scandinavian literature with serious depth, I would recommend Johannes V. Jensen. his poetry in particular is beautiful, but I don't know if any good translations exist. His sister was also a respected author, and one of the more influential early Danish feminists. I heartily recommend All Quiet on the Western Front. I still think it's the best book writen about war. It's about (very) young German soldiers in WW1, caught up in events they don't understand and lured into the millitary by false promises and hypocritical old men who prefer to have others fight their battles for them. This book will be relevant as long as there is war. |
Red Guard Posts: 4821 Joined: 14 Oct 2007 | On the note of a fantastic non-English author, Solzhenitsyn. Unfortunately, he died recently, but his works will live on and ever give us commentary upon the state of man. |
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I am an avid reader. That's hardly news. However, I was wondering who else felt the same adoration and envy for great authors and their works. I'd also like to suggest discussing the themes of books. (And on a side note, I'd prefer this -didn't- descend into a rant about Twilight. We already have threads for that.)
So to kick-start the idea, I'm going to stick the book 1984 by George Orwell up on the podium.
Personally I loved this. It is well written, and I find it quite a joy to read. Each character is defined by his or her actions, and relations to the totalitarian nature of their society. They act in different ways, reacting to situations according to their own close-held ideals, whether they be the ones installed by the Party or ones brought about through their own conclusions.
Newspeak is also a fascinating idea. The thought that it is possible to restrict human thought and capacity by all-but eradicating any hint of seditious language has always been to me a thing of amoral genius. The true tool of dictatorial governments. Once society had regressed to such a point, there would be little or no need for policing anything other than the language, which would naturally fall to the Thought Police.
One thing which has come up in friendly discussion regarding 1984 is the depressing nature of the book itself. How this is such a bad thing, I don't understand. While it is a negative outlook, the fact that it can make one react in such an emotional way, in empathy with the story, is just another sign of the power of the writing. Then again, I'm biased as someone with a loathing of most happy endings, unless they're very well written.
Thoughts?
(Edit: Some word-flow fixed.)