I actually am surprised no results dealing directly with nihilism were returned when I searched the forum. Anyway, what is your take upon this "philosophy of nothingness?" Please debate the philosophy and keep the discussion on topic.

For myself, I would not agree with the extreme position involved in "there is no truth" or no value is greater than any other value. I do, however, agree with the existential nihilist in that there is no objective or intrinsic meaning to life. I would argue one can create their own subjective meaning.

Check the "Why anything?" thread. It's a thread pretty much inspired by nihilism.

To cut it short though, I'm an absurdist. In my view it's the best place to be for an Atheist, and I think a lot of people will find themselves as absurdists unknowingly (just like me until Imitation Saccharin pointed me in the direction of it)

Ultrajoe:
Nihilism... is quite odd.

To me, it has no potential, its the ultimate pessimism.

And i disagree on the Absurdist thing, i think the best place for an atheist to be is Secular Humanism.

I guess an atheist already made 1 unfounded assumption, why not 2?

Reading the Absurdist thing, I read some things that I agreed with, like creating meaning for yourself. Seems dumb just following some assignment granted by some being you know nothing about. Not sure if that makes me one or not.

I've heard this argument a lot when dealing with nihilism and I always find it dissatisfies me. The argument is basically "nihilism is so bleak" or "nihilism can lead to suicide, dictatorships, etc." I don't feel like it answers its truth, just maybe reasons why to not be nihilist.

Let me be the devil's advocate here and ask why nihilism has to lead to such pessimism. Even if we have no meaning why can we not live within the moment (not in a hedonist sense) and still help others just because we want to?

Ultrajoe:

Travis Bickle:

Imitation Saccharin :

Ultrajoe:
Nihilism... is quite odd.

To me, it has no potential, its the ultimate pessimism.

And i disagree on the Absurdist thing, i think the best place for an atheist to be is Secular Humanism.

I guess an atheist already made 1 unfounded assumption, why not 2?

Would you care to elaborate, I'm interested in what you have to say, but what you have said isn't very clear to me, I may be a little slow.

I agree, i feel i have been accused of something... but i don't know what it is...

Perhaps he believes that the belief that there is no god to be an unfounded assumption.

Theres actually more than a little evidence for and against the existence of a greater power.

Nihilism is a stable philosophy. Why should knowing there is no reason for existing detract from said existence?

Atheism- the belief that no god exists
Secular Humanism- the belief that there is a universal morality among people because they are people

The first assumption is that as no evidence of God has been found, it/he/she does not exist. The second is part of secular humanism, which is based on the assumption that the human condition is universal.

Travis Bickle:

What about the lack of solid evidence?
Is it not reasonable for one to not believe in something that has relatively no evidence to support it?

The only response that does not base itself on assumption is agnosticism.

Travis Bickle:

What about the lack of solid evidence?
Is it not reasonable for one to not believe in something that has relatively no evidence to support it?

There is some evidence that would seem to support the existence of a higher power, very little and nothing solid but it's still there.

Oi! We're not even through the first page and already we've gotten into atheism, humanism, and agnosticism. These topics have been talked to death, look elsewhere for their discussion.

I disagree with the Nihilist talking point that search for meaning is impossible, and meaning is itself unobtainable. In that respect I have to agree with the Absurdists: y' need to come up with your own meaning.

Travis Bickle:

Why are we to believe that something is possible if we have no reason to believe it is?

Because you have not seen that it is impossible.

*I am aware of the seeming impossibility of providing positive evidence for a negative claim, but consider how one proves a ladder is not in a closet.

Nihilism

-Denial of existence of any basic for knowledge or truth
-Rejection of morality, religion, etc.

The only rule is personnal enjoyement.

I think the pessimism point can be answered with the lack of knowledge of nihilism. Let me elaborate with an example of a discussion.

Person A:Do you beleive in God?
Person B: No
Person A: Do you beleive there is a reason for life?
Person B: No, we have no purpose
Person A: So you don't beleive in anything like life, religion and the basics in society?
Person B: I beleive only on my own existence.

Even with this example, I don't think I can't really pinpoint nihilism.

Ultrajoe:

Such things can be cast aside as pointless in the face of more real issues.

It's basically a microcosm for philosophy, yes.

While I very much disagree with Nihilism (or, at least, very much want to), I certainly can't claim to be 100% confident in any particular viewpoint. Nihilism is the stripped down, bare-bones philosophy that my mind leads me to, after I fail to prove to myself that theism or universal morality must be necessarily true.

I am no Nihilist- at least, I don't want to be. But if I discard the other viewpoints one by one for lack of proof, Nihilism is what I find myself left with in the end. If it came to that extreme, I would not condemn any act. Why would I?

EDIT: Also, I could not be an Absurdist in any case, because I could not take the leap that just because I personally will probably never know a thing, that thing must be unknowable. I also don't think Nihilism is predisposed to optimism or pessimism. It is my own need for something greater than myself (which many share) that makes it intolerably pessimistic.

Random argument man:
Nihilism

-Denial of existence of any basic for knowledge or truth
-Rejection of morality, religion, etc.

The only rule is personnal enjoyement.

I think the pessimism point can be answered with the lack of knowledge of nihilism. Let me elaborate with an example of a discussion.

Person A:Do you beleive in God?
Person B: No
Person A: Do you beleive there is a reason for life?
Person B: No, we have no purpose
Person A: So you don't beleive in anything like life, religion and the basics in society?
Person B: I beleive only on my own existence.

Even with this example, I don't think I can't really pinpoint nihilism.

Your ending statement for said theoretical nihilist sounds like you are assuming they are solipsist. While these two views may be compatible, they do not necessarily entail each other. I would argue hedonism is not directly concluded from nihilism. Hedonism is to allow yourself to be a slave to your desires, while I believe many people desire freedom. If there is no meaning in life, then there should be no meaning either way. Want instant self-gratification?
OK, doesn't matter. Want to follow the golden rule? OK, doesn't matter.

(I'm not a nihilist so I do apologize if I overstep my boundaries at any point trying to argue for it.)

EDIT: Alright, to the discussion about assumptions, proving a negative, etc:
It's a logical fallacy to assume A is true just because anti-A has no evidence to support it. However, the converse is also true.
With the assumptions: agnostics aren't above this realm of assuming. If you're a permanent agnostic then you assume that god can't be proven one way or the other.

Travis Bickle:

True, though considering it is impossible to prove or disprove that it's even possible agnosticism makes an equal assumption

"I don't know" is the same as "I can't know" in terms of total knowledge possessed

Travis Bickle:

Also, If the alternative presents a degree of absurdity
it is not so much assuming as much as it is believing in the evidence, or lack there of.

Belief requires assumption

Travis Bickle:

To your second statement: I have no idea what that means, remember I'm a little slow.

You confirm a broom is not in a closet by checking every space in the closet and confirming it is not there. By doing so you have provided evidence that each part does not contain a broom, and the combination is that the closet itself does not contain a broom.

i live life like I play an open-ended RPG, make it up as you go along, the only difference is I don't slaughter and pillage in real life...and there are no mythical beasts...or use of sword play, maybe I used the wrong analogy?

http://webpages.charter.net/poperocket/nihilists.jpg

Zey Belief in NOSSING!

Travis Bickle:

Does "believing in the evidence" require assumption?

Yes, that the evidence is not an aberration.

Travis Bickle:

So what you're saying is the only way to not assume is to simply ignore the idea?

Yup.
Technically this applies to all beliefs and knowledge is ultimately unknowable. But in general life it's enough to be pragmatic.

Booze Zombie:
Nihilism is a stable philosophy. Why should knowing there is no reason for existing detract from said existence?

Yeah, everyone knows theres no reason for or in hoping for world peace or playing viva pinata but that does not mean that either is wrong or fufilling, just that as a mode for meaning they are both rather useless.

If there is no proof something exists, then there is aslo no proof it doesn't.
if you chose to believe, you grant it existance for you thereby giving it meaning.
if you chose to believe it doesnt exist, it doesn't to you, the reality of life is fluid and personal,
simply put if its there, it is and if its not, it isn't, but that doesn't matter.

Travis Bickle:

Does this mean that the definition of atheism in which a person lacks the belief in god (not the belief that a god doesn't exist) is not assuming?

After all a person ignoring the idea completely would be without the belief in God.

But he would also be without a belief God does not exist.

Lack of positive belief covers both atheism AND agnosticism.

I was wondering if any of you have ever had a moment where you have became so lost in exestentionalism that you actually saw the world through someone elses eyes and had a rush that could only be decribed as a heart attack, but also the overflow of emotion rushing into the very core of your being? I know I am ignorant as much of this conversation and would have nothing to add exept my own opinion.

Darth Nihilus was awesome...but most nihilists aren't like him ;(

or are they??

Travis Bickle:

So depending on which definition of the title is being addressed, atheism and agnosticism may lack the assumption that theism carries?

Is that the agreement are debate or argument produces; I hope it is because I'm getting tired.

Yes, depending on definition atheism does not carry an assumption.

I'm a nihilist/cynic/existentialist in that I consider any human action, creation or intention -and even life in itself- as ultimately without any meaning. There is no higher purpose, there is no ultimate goal and no greater good that is universal.

You are what you do. The only judge of your actions, life and intentions is, ultimately, yourself.

There is no definition to 'fail' in life. The person who has no ambitions, but tries to live his 75+ years the way he enjoys it is no 'better' than the man who tries to make a career, and surrenders everything else for it.

Society itself is abstract nonsense, and not something I can surrender my own individuality for. I am what I am, I do what I do. Before I die, I will be able to say that I enjoyed my life; even though I will regret things I did and especially regret the things I never did at all.

How others will see me, as a great man or as an abomination to whatever, does not concern me.

I am responsible for my legacy, even though my legacy in itself is just as worthless as anything else.

And yes, I'm quite capable of enjoying my life.

Nihilism is pointless. Humanity should invest its resources into giving itself all the comforts reserved for gods: terraforming, cloning body parts to replace aging ones etc.

Spinozaad:
And yes, I'm quite capable of enjoying my life.

But, why should you? I certainly don't mean to mock, but only to raise a question I have about Nihilism. I can see that humans are naturally compelled to indulge themselves, but is there any less value in a Nihilist who chooses a miserable and pathetic existence? Or kills himself? Or intentionally hurts others? If I were to subscribe to my own understanding of Nihilism, I would have to recognize that condoning or condemning any action is the result of artificial constraints. I would not condemn any act. So, if nothing matters, what is positive about a happy and fulfilling life?

hypothetical fact:
Nihilism is pointless.

Yes; and that is the point. Which is pointless. Which is the point. Which is pointless. Which is the pointlesspointpointpointalismpointificate-SYSTEM ERROR