PedroSteckecilo: Sorry if that seemed antagonistic Cheeze, that Foot Binding bit wasn't directed at you in particular. And again yes you're right about the Medieval Era lawmaking, not my specialty unfortunately so there are gaps, I do religions and social trends that stem from them.
No worries--I brought up the net hunting thing specifically because so much chauvinism is based on the flawed idea that the division of labor with men doing the 'active' and 'dangerous' things is natural.
Although I never could figure out why gathering wasn't considered dangerous. When you go to hunt, you lay in wait in an ambush spot, aware of your surroundings. When you gather, you're out in the open looking down at the ground with all kinds of lions and tigers prowling around.
It's true, but I'm guessing the folk who weren't aware whilest they gathered weren't around long.
greygelgoog: It's not that you did something spectacularly kind, it's that you had basic courtesy? In that case I should be thanked daily for not murdering anyone.
I am so going to write a Sci-fi story where that happens now.
Also, if you need any examples of why feminism is good, look up Footbinding, that shit is horrible.
So, what you're saying here, is that we need to move the feminists to China, where Footbinding actually happens, and not leave them where they are, you know, where that sort of thing is a crime.
Footbinding is an example of how bad a male dominated society can get and why we can not allow society to revert. It's forced mutilation on account of a sexual perversion. And footbinding isn't practiced openly in China anymore, however plenty of female children are abandoned there as Males are considered more important as they are considered carriers of the family legacy. The same problem occurs in India.
I've had the discussion of what women would do if they were the out and out leaders of society, with the women who wanted that power, and frankly I don't think it's any better of an alternative. I'll agree that footbinding is wrong, but you can't then justify militant, extremist feminism for a problem that exists in a completely different society. I'm not arguing that we need to go back to the way things were before. I don't consider that any more of a step forward than slavery, but you can't use evidence of what another society does and apply it to ours. Unless you want to drop into discussions of the matriarchal societies where the king was killed every year.
I am unsure if my Apprentice posted on this thread or not, but I still hold open the door for her, and anyone else who is walking behind me, woman or man. If someone were to yell at me for holding the door for them, I would simply ask them to step back through, and then once they are outside, I would slam the door in their face. Christina LOVES it that I still get the door for her, and I had a friend who was surprised that even though she was dating someone else, and we had broken up long before then, that I would still get the door for her on both my truck and any building we walked into. She really appreciated it because even her fiance wouldn't do that.
So, moral of the story: If a woman gets up in your face because you are being polite, slap that bitch, HARD! Otherwise, most people appreciate the kindness, and will thank you for it.
I hold the door for anyone. And the day some twat goes off on me for holding the door is the day she gets yelled down by someone in public for being rude to someone who was just being polite.
Hmm since we seem to be getting back on track with the topic....
I dont think chivalry is dead per say. Merely people chose to make it selectively dead. Example: if a femanist bitches at me for holding a door (example in the first post) I will gladly let it go and watch the strong spring slab of hurt bitch slap her so hard her eyes pop out the back of her skull...I will then blink and then probably have a good giggle about it as she lays screaming in the street blood pouring from her shattered facial bones as people stare strangely at me wonderng why I'm such an evil fuck.
However if a nice person (man, women or inbetween) turns up a'll gladly hold the door open for them smile politely and get on with my day feeling a bit better for it.
Either that or I stick by one creed if i'm lazy "I do no discriminate between age, sex, creed or race...I hate everyone equally."
Or something like that. I should go play more fable to maim people....since fable 2 isnt on pc yet and i positively hate the xbox controllers...
So, moral of the story: If a woman gets up in your face because you are being polite, slap that bitch, HARD! Otherwise, most people appreciate the kindness, and will thank you for it.
InifniteWit: I hold the door for anyone. And the day some twat goes off on me for holding the door is the day she gets yelled down by someone in public for being rude to someone who was just being polite.
So, moral of the story: If a woman gets up in your face because you are being polite, slap that bitch, HARD! Otherwise, most people appreciate the kindness, and will thank you for it.
InifniteWit: I hold the door for anyone. And the day some twat goes off on me for holding the door is the day she gets yelled down by someone in public for being rude to someone who was just being polite.
I don't think its dead I think it has morphed into common courtesy, when I'm at school/work (since I work at my school) and I see someone with an arm load of books I open the door for them, not because of their sex but because its a pain trying to juggle an armload of stuff and open a door.
AHAHAHA! I see your point, though I feel only the second example really makes any transgression. After all, you can't very well call a rude woman a dick, now can you? Or wait, would that also be empowering? Would a woman feel equal if a man she was chewing out for saying 'ladies first' hauled off and mashed her in the face, as he might do to another man? The simple fact is that women and men are different. Maybe not in every way some stereotypes portray, and of course it varies from individual to individual, but jeez, there's a reason that there is a separate name for each of the sexes. 'Wymen' need to learn to deal with polite, friendly, and BENEFICIAL behavior.
So, moral of the story: If a woman gets up in your face because you are being polite, slap that bitch, HARD! Otherwise, most people appreciate the kindness, and will thank you for it.
InifniteWit: I hold the door for anyone. And the day some twat goes off on me for holding the door is the day she gets yelled down by someone in public for being rude to someone who was just being polite.
I dont think chivalry is dead per say. Merely people chose to make it selectively dead. Example: if a femanist bitches at me for holding a door
Yes, chivalry is alive and well...
I think this was the OP's point.
"Do to others as you want done to yourself."
Cheeze_Pavillion, you do realise that if you were to do as mentioned in the three examples, it appears as if you want to be respected and adored in return. The world doesn't act that way, I'm sorry to say.
Cheeze_Pavillion, you do realise that if you were to do as mentioned in the three examples, it appears as if you want to be respected and adored in return. The world doesn't act that way, I'm sorry to say.
AHAHAHA! I see your point, though I feel only the second example really makes any transgression. After all, you can't very well call a rude woman a dick, now can you?
Everyone's got an a-hole...and most people act like one, so it makes for a great thing to call people.
AHAHAHA! I see your point, though I feel only the second example really makes any transgression. After all, you can't very well call a rude woman a dick, now can you? Or wait, would that also be empowering? Would a woman feel equal if a man she was chewing out for saying 'ladies first' hauled off and mashed her in the face, as he might do to another man? The simple fact is that women and men are different. Maybe not in every way some stereotypes portray, and of course it varies from individual to individual, but jeez, there's a reason that there is a separate name for each of the sexes. 'Wymen' need to learn to deal with polite, friendly, and BENEFICIAL behavior.
Cheeze_Pavillion, you do realise that if you were to do as mentioned in the three examples, it appears as if you want to be respected and adored in return. The world doesn't act that way, I'm sorry to say.
Don't throw petrol onto a fire.
I don't see what you're getting at.
What you said, in relation to the premise of the thread, was quite hypocritical.
Cheeze_Pavillion, you do realise that if you were to do as mentioned in the three examples, it appears as if you want to be respected and adored in return. The world doesn't act that way, I'm sorry to say.
Don't throw petrol onto a fire.
I don't see what you're getting at.
What you said, in relation to the premise of the thread, was quite hypocritical.
Why exactly is it hypocritical? I still don't know what you mean by "if you were to do as mentioned in the three examples": as the women? as the posters?
galletea: It is a problem. Particularly annoying are the women on daytime shows who claim to 'speak for all women'. They have me swearing at the television, saying that the word 'mankind' is sexist and other such militant feminist bull.
That's one thing I do enjoy about being a white male, I don't have any one person who claims to represent me and all of my views. When you look at a jack-ass white male and he says he represents the oppress men. You think to yourself, "wow that dude is a jack-ass. "
When you have a jack ass member of 'x' group, people (not me but just the common consenses) tend to say, "Wow see thats why I hate group 'x'."
Because of recent years I have became a bastard, likely if that was to happen to me, I would have slapped the women right their and said. "I don't old doors open for women, I hole doors open for my fellow mankind." Then again I likely wouldn't have someone yell at me, because when I hope doors open for people, I give a very light grin and a quick bow of my head as respect. Somehow I find people to react differently to that then just a big grin and stare into their eyes.
Cheeze_Pavillion, you do realise that if you were to do as mentioned in the three examples, it appears as if you want to be respected and adored in return. The world doesn't act that way, I'm sorry to say.
Don't throw petrol onto a fire.
I don't see what you're getting at.
What you said, in relation to the premise of the thread, was quite hypocritical.
Why exactly is it hypocritical? I still don't know what you mean by "if you were to do as mentioned in the three examples": as the women? as the posters?
Yes. If you were to act like the women referenced in your examples, would you call it an act of chivalry?
Cheeze_Pavillion, you do realise that if you were to do as mentioned in the three examples, it appears as if you want to be respected and adored in return. The world doesn't act that way, I'm sorry to say.
Don't throw petrol onto a fire.
I don't see what you're getting at.
What you said, in relation to the premise of the thread, was quite hypocritical.
Why exactly is it hypocritical? I still don't know what you mean by "if you were to do as mentioned in the three examples": as the women? as the posters?
Yes. If you were to act like the women referenced in your examples, would you call it an act of chivalry?
Would I call *what* an act of chivalry? What the the women did? No, but they never claimed to be being chivalrous, so I'm still at a loss about what you're trying to express.
Chivalry is indeed dying, but it's not feminists' fault. Don't get me wrong - I'm a dude, I do all sorts of dudely things, and I do hate rampant radical feminism, but we honestly can't blame them for us not being polite and "chivalrous". I'd go into more detail but that's so far off-topic that it deserves its own thread.
I guess what I'm saying is: Who gives a flying fuck at a rolling donut what that woman said. Stupid people are everywhere. Keep getting doors for people and being polite.
Cheeze_Pavillion, you do realise that if you were to do as mentioned in the three examples, it appears as if you want to be respected and adored in return. The world doesn't act that way, I'm sorry to say.
Don't throw petrol onto a fire.
I don't see what you're getting at.
What you said, in relation to the premise of the thread, was quite hypocritical.
Why exactly is it hypocritical? I still don't know what you mean by "if you were to do as mentioned in the three examples": as the women? as the posters?
Yes. If you were to act like the women referenced in your examples, would you call it an act of chivalry?
Would I call *what* an act of chivalry? What the the women did? No, but they never claimed to be being chivalrous, so I'm still at a loss about what you're trying to express.
The fact that it doesn't apply when there is only one party being chivalrous.
Cheeze_Pavillion, you do realise that if you were to do as mentioned in the three examples, it appears as if you want to be respected and adored in return. The world doesn't act that way, I'm sorry to say.
Don't throw petrol onto a fire.
I don't see what you're getting at.
What you said, in relation to the premise of the thread, was quite hypocritical.
Why exactly is it hypocritical? I still don't know what you mean by "if you were to do as mentioned in the three examples": as the women? as the posters?
Yes. If you were to act like the women referenced in your examples, would you call it an act of chivalry?
Would I call *what* an act of chivalry? What the the women did? No, but they never claimed to be being chivalrous, so I'm still at a loss about what you're trying to express.
The fact that it doesn't apply when there is only one party being chivalrous.
How can a woman be chivalrous or not to a man? That makes no sense.
Cheeze_Pavillion, you do realise that if you were to do as mentioned in the three examples, it appears as if you want to be respected and adored in return. The world doesn't act that way, I'm sorry to say.
Don't throw petrol onto a fire.
I don't see what you're getting at.
What you said, in relation to the premise of the thread, was quite hypocritical.
Why exactly is it hypocritical? I still don't know what you mean by "if you were to do as mentioned in the three examples": as the women? as the posters?
Yes. If you were to act like the women referenced in your examples, would you call it an act of chivalry?
Would I call *what* an act of chivalry? What the the women did? No, but they never claimed to be being chivalrous, so I'm still at a loss about what you're trying to express.
The fact that it doesn't apply when there is only one party being chivalrous.
How can a woman be chivalrous or not to a man? That makes no sense.
No, it's not subservience. It's courtesy and respect. When someone helps me do anything, whether I need the help or not, I thank them. Even if the help was unwanted and completely useless, I thank them. I don't see how this could be considered subservient.
Edited for calmness: Eggo, if you would kindly refrain from doing this:
santaandy: Speaking of literature, did anyone ever notice how one-sided "The Vagina Monologues" are?
Speaking of which, did anyone ever notice how one-sided the last couple millenia have been?
It doesn't make me see your arguments in a very neutral way. It's not witty, it's not clever, and it certainly isn't mature. The only way your arguments are going to get any serious consideration is if you present them in a manner that doesn't sound so hostile.
I would not think that both parties being polite would be considered submissive or obedient. I would consider it more under the term 'respectful'.
Then why is this thread about chivalry?
No, it's not subservience. It's courtesy and respect. When someone helps me do anything, whether I need the help or not, I thank them. Even if the help was unwanted and completely useless, I thank them. I don't see how this could be considered subservient.
This discussion is about the language and semantics behind terms such as chivalry and subservience; not what you personally feel is socially appropriate to do.
And I don't believe in anything; stop being so appallingly melodramatic. It's only a forum.
Eggo: And I don't believe in anything; stop being so appallingly melodramatic. It's only a forum.
Ahahaha, sorry, I just knew that you would say something along the lines of "I don't believe in anything."
I apologize for my previous post; I re-read it now and it sounds very spiteful, and that was not my intention at all. My purpose was to inform you of something that has bothered me about the way you present your arguments for some time.
The only thing I model my life after is being a rational skeptic. If you're swearing upon rationality and skepticism in regards to me, you aren't really leaving much room for yourself when the dust clears.
I'm equally courteous to men and women, unless of course that woman is attractive, then I'll go so far as to be civil.