One more thing I'd like to add:

Why is there such an outcry to see black versions of popular characters? Nick Fury is black now, for example, and we keep hearing people asking for a black Bond. Why? Is it because Obama is going to be our new president? Why are so many people saying we need a black version of -insert popular character- all of a sudden? People cry racism every time they make a character from a different ethnic group white, so why is it suddenly fine to "blackify" characters that were white?

This is why I hate the whole topic of race. There are tons of double standards and hypocrisy. Just leave characters the way they were written and shut up.

It's bad. M was able to get away with becoming a woman because A) We assume it's a change of command, and B) She isn't exactly a main character of the movies.

Bond however, there is only one. Changing him too much would be non-canon. I'd hate to see them change him just to be politically correct. Would they make Bond a girl or homosexual? No, because it's not his character. It's not James Bond.

To the above post, Nick Fury was black in the Ultimate comics. He was black a long time. Now Sam Jackson playing him... ohhhhh yeah!

Sexual Harassment Panda:
This is retarded. Bond is a well established character...we know what he looks like.

Yes, he looks like this:

That's right, he looks like six completely different people.

Wait, seven:

No wait, eight:

As you can see, we definitely know what Bond looks like. He looks like eight different people, specifically four English men, one Scot, one Aussie, one American and a guy from Ireland.

Admittedly all of these men are white, but that doesn't mean the next man has to be, and if we're going off what Ian Fleming wrote, Bond should also be nearly ninety, as his date of birth, as Fleming wrote it, is somewhere around 1920.

I think they should stick to the original character. If he's going to be black let's have him being Asian as well what the hell. Let's fuck up another character concept for the sake of political fairness. This "fab" of political correct is starting to get out of hand and on my nerves.

Ronwue:
I think they should stick to the original character. If he's going to be black let's have him being Asian as well what the hell. Let's fuck up another character concept for the sake of political fairness. This "fab" of political correct is starting to get out of hand and on my nerves.

I think you mean 'fad'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying 'THE NEXT JAMES BOND MUST BE BLACK!", I'm just saying that if it was handled right, the next James Bond could be black.

nilcypher:

Ronwue:
I think they should stick to the original character. If he's going to be black let's have him being Asian as well what the hell. Let's fuck up another character concept for the sake of political fairness. This "fab" of political correct is starting to get out of hand and on my nerves.

I think you mean 'fad'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying 'THE NEXT JAMES BOND MUST BE BLACK!", I'm just saying that if it was handled right, the next James Bond could be black.

Nil, before I saw the reinvention of Felix Leiter, I'd disagree. After...it is possible, but it would be rather tricky to successfully pull off.

thebobmaster:

nilcypher:

Ronwue:
I think they should stick to the original character. If he's going to be black let's have him being Asian as well what the hell. Let's fuck up another character concept for the sake of political fairness. This "fab" of political correct is starting to get out of hand and on my nerves.

I think you mean 'fad'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying 'THE NEXT JAMES BOND MUST BE BLACK!", I'm just saying that if it was handled right, the next James Bond could be black.

Nil, before I saw the reinvention of Felix Leiter, I'd disagree. After...it is possible, but it would be rather tricky to successfully pull off.

Plus (here's me trying despriately not to make this sound racist) you'd have to pull off the fact that he sleeps with a million women. White Bond: the audience thinks he's swave, cool, chrismatic. Black Bond: as the stereotype goes (not my opinion) he must be a pimp and/or Will Smith.

But that's not the issue I'm worried with. It just seems like the only reason for them to change is due to becomming more PC. It's unnessassry to make huge changes like this. Bond stories are all samey and familiar. Changing it would scare too many people.

santaandy:
As Bond is British, I have nothing against Bond being any of the cultural subgroups there, including Chinese or Indian. We've already had Scottish and English, why not something else? Such would be far less important than writing a proper story, mind you. CR = good, QoS = boring.

That was a Scottish guy playing as an Englishman. That is not the same as changing Bond's race completely.

nilcypher can you please tell me if my following post is racist / flaming and I will edit and leave this thread.

Jesus is portrayed as white in most "pictures" of him but the book was written about a guy from a central arab area. I'm not saying Bond should be black but it has been done before in the past and no-one seemed to mind, or is it just when somebody white is played by a black person that things seem to be seen as bad?

Quinn Davis:
I guess it would be fine, as long as they didn't BLACK HIM OUT. If you know what I mean.

Like Blade, or XXX or anything like that, with lots of ebonics and references to his blackness. THAT would ruin it. And, unfortunately, Hollywood tends to do this when a lead action movie character is black.

i can picture bond saying. "itz ok bout dat nuke and shit bitch , ima bust a cap in dat fool fo set trippen on mah country , den bust a nut on yo tits" it would be awesome like boys in the hood meets 007.

Infernalistgamer:

Quinn Davis:
I like black people, but Bond is a whiter than white englishman.

Should Blade be white? or Shaft?

Characters should be the way they are written, that's it.

And anyone who could manage to be offended by this topic, needs to pull the stick out of their ass.

Normally, I'd agree. But, a black man portrayed the Kingpin, one of my personal favorites, quite well. At the same time, I threw a fit when they made Terry Fitzgerald (Spawn movie) white. So, I think I go case-by-case.

Urgh... that Spawn movie was a travesty to the entire concept of Spawn in so many ways.

Bond should be a suave, English, male, womanising, secret agent. Beyond that I don't see why he shouldn't be black, but I can see one reason why he should. When I first saw the queston, I just couldn't imagine it. I seriously could not (and still can not) picture a 'suave' black man in a movie. This isn't because I am racist in any way, but because I have been force-fed enough stereotypes in my 32 years that whenever I see a black guy in a film now I either expect a wise-cracking side-kick or a serious, humourless hero with a troubled past. And for that matter... when I see an Asian I either expect a computer whizz who is helping the hero or some socially awkward dude who is about to high-kick some violent thugs into a load of garbage cans.

Looking over this thread I don't think I am alone in having these mindsets jammed into my conciousness.

It's time to tear these kinds of stereotypes down. 'I Spy' kind of tried it by having Eddie Murphy as the suave spy and Owen Wilson as the whacky side-kick, but the fact the film stank and the had no real depth to its characters meant it did very little to change my pre-conceptions.

No bond is british and is white in the other films that would be weird if the next plastic surgury he has makes him black

Well, I have nothing against having a black super spy character who's identical to bond in attitude and aplomb, changing 007's ethnicity at this point in the game seems a little silly.

race changes have occured in established media - Harvey Dent in batman for instance changed form black to white, and catwoman in the original 60s show changed from white to black to white again... It has been done.. but never with characters as iconic as James Bond.

I'm continually baffled by this idea that Bond should be white because Bond has always been white in the past. The franchise is constantly getting retcons and updates. Are we supposed to believe that it's the same Bond who fights Soviet assassins in 'From Russia with Love' as the Bond who battles the XKR driving villain in 'Die Another Day'? Even at the most conservative estimate, there is a 17 year gap between the two, and yet Bond has seemingly barely aged.*

I think with just a few lines, you could bring in a black James Bond and get away with it. For example:

M: (Hands Bond a Walther P99) I don't mind telling you 007, you have a lot to live up to.
Bond: (Looks at the pistol for a moment) I'm well aware of that sir. (Holsters the gun)

or

Bond: The name's Bond, James Bond.
Bond Girl: Funny, I always thought you were white.
Bond: (Smiles wryly)I get that a lot.

*(For reference, my conservative estimate has 'From Russia with Love' set in 1989, just before the fall of the Soviet Union, and 'Die Another Day' set in 1996 which is the first year the Jaguar XKR was available)

Nothing about an established character should be changed. Bond's creator, Ian Flaming, wrote him as a white Brit, and changing anything about the character would go against what the character's creator had in mind when writing the stories...

nilcypher:
I'm continually baffled by this idea that Bond should be white because Bond has always been white in the past. The franchise is constantly getting retcons and updates. Are we supposed to believe that it's the same Bond who fights Soviet assassins in 'From Russia with Love' as the Bond who battles the XKR driving villain in 'Die Another Day'? Even at the most conservative estimate, there is a 17 year gap between the two, and yet Bond has seemingly barely aged.*

...

*(For reference, my conservative estimate has 'From Russia with Love' set in 1989, just before the fall of the Soviet Union, and 'Die Another Day' set in 1996 which is the first year the Jaguar XKR was available)

Either your maths is erroneous or you've thrown down the wrong dates, that's a 7 year gap, not 17.

Goddamnit! You're right! That's what I get for trying to argue a point at two in the morning.

EDIT:

Jharry5:
Nothing about an established character should be changed. Bond's creator, Ian Flaming, wrote him as a white Brit, and changing anything about the character would go against what the character's creator had in mind when writing the stories...

As I've said before, if we go off what Fleming wrote, he'd be almost ninety now. The first Bond novel was published in 1953 and Bond was in his thirties then.

nilcypher:

Pyronoid:
Short answer, no.

Long answer, no, because it would completely contradict the last oh so many films. James Bond suddenly transformed into a black guy.

As opposed to M suddenly transformed into a woman, which is clearly fine.

She didn't. M is a title, and the old one quit or was killed, can't remember. In Goldeneye, one character makes the remark "you're new M is a woman?"

Quinn Davis:
I like black people, but Bond is a whiter than white englishman.

Should Blade be white? or Shaft?

Characters should be the way they are written, that's it.

And anyone who could manage to be offended by this topic, needs to pull the stick out of their ass.

i wouldnt mind a white blade (even though i loved wesley snipes) but a white shaft would be lame, i mean it WAS a blacksploitation series.

but yah, a black bond would be pretty lame, I think they should make a new bond-like series so that there could be a black "bond", perhaps put in a black 00 agent that would take the place of bond after his tragic death?

orannis62:

nilcypher:

Pyronoid:
Short answer, no.

Long answer, no, because it would completely contradict the last oh so many films. James Bond suddenly transformed into a black guy.

As opposed to M suddenly transformed into a woman, which is clearly fine.

She didn't. M is a title, and the old one quit or was killed, can't remember. In Goldeneye, one character makes the remark "you're new M is a woman?"

But as I mentioned before, Casino Royale shows Bond at the beginning of his career as a double-0 agent, and yet we still have the same female M. Until Goldeneye, M had always been a man. M may be an ancillary character, but the principle still applies.

The James Bond movies are more like a set of stock characters than a single coherent continuity.

-- Alex

freakyHippo:

AuntyEthel:

freakyHippo:
I think we are years away from seeing a black bond. In this country we don't have any other black people in top spying positions. Until we have a black Man from U.N.C.L.E or a black Saint i don't think we'll ever see a black bond.

Err... there is a black saint. He's called Moses the black.

Not this type of saint

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_the_Black

this type of saint

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saint_(TV_series)

Ah right. I thought it was kinda weird to put James Bond, UNCLE and s saint into the same category.

I have no problem with it

My only problem is that it has to be pulled off, with the right actor and in a way that's not completely cheesy or dentrimental to the black community.

I mean, if it's the same basic character, who cares about the skin color?

OK, let's put this another way.

Wolverine, of X-Men fame, is a short man. 5'3" to be exact. It is referenced often in the comics, usually by bad guys trying to wind him up. It is a hard fact about the character that has remained unchanged since the character was created.

Now, with that in mind, did anyone mind that Hugh Jackman is actually quite tall?

nilcypher:
OK, let's put this another way.

Wolverine, of X-Men fame, is a short man. 5'3" to be exact. It is referenced often in the comics, usually by bad guys trying to wind him up. It is a hard fact about the character that has remained unchanged since the character was created.

Now, with that in mind, did anyone mind that Hugh Jackman is actually quite tall?

I'd be willing to see if it would work.

but that's an interesting point.

I have no idea if this is accurate, but this is just the way I've always viewed it;
Each Bond film is set in its own universe, where the events of other Bond films did not necessarily take place before consecutive 'adventures'. This allowed for the changing of actors, and the modernisation of Bond so that he would fit with the rapidly modernising times, especially seen in Daniel Craig's jump into a post-Bourne era of film goer.

However, this view gets fubard with the latest Bond flick, Quantum of Solace, which I haven't yet seen but I'm reliably told follows almost directly on from the events of Casino Royale.

Having not seen it again I make an educated guess here, but are all the actors and actresses the same for Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace?

Coming back to the original question, my mind is divided. On the one hand, Bond has always felt like a white, British character to me, but then this is just because ever since I was a kid thats the way he has been presented. For the love of all things good, don't make him black just because it would be politically correct, but if they find a black actors that portrays the character well then why the hell not go for it?

Again on a side note, after so many years of Bond being portrayed as a white Brit, I'm doubtful as to wether they would even get away with this, it would probably cause an outcry about 'P.C. gone mad' (I can see the Sun headlines now (for the non-Brit readers, its a trashy and oft-slated newspaper)) regardless of wether or not the actor was right for the role.

Bottom line; make him black if it 'feels right', don't make him black because of political correctness (and agreeing with a previous post, don't 'blackinise him' if he is portrayed by a black person!)

Apologies for the length of the post, but <3 you escapist, you give me something to do when my fever wakes me up at 3am and I can't go back to bed yet 'cos I sweated the crap out of my sheets (boo influenza!) :)

Hmmm.

I really cannot decide which stance to take in this thread. This is almost unheard of. I am baffled and confused, the pros and cons take fails to help me split the internal vote. The moral and ethical purist take doesn't shake the feeling that it would fall on its face.

My biggest concern is that no matter how it was done, he would always be 'black'. Meaning that that would be his defining feature, ruining the performance or films integrity. I do certainly think it could be done, certainly.

My answer:

Should their be a black Bond? Undecided. I lean towards no, because the question implies that there needs to be a black bond just because he would be 'black'. When was skin color the measure of an actor? It's like voting for Obama because America should have a black president. Its for the wrong reasons, the president should be capable, as should any actor playing Bond.

Could there be a black Bond? Absolutely. An actors merit should be their only defining feature. I wouldn't mind an ugly bond, because it would lend itself to the character.

The original title question itself is loaded, and i have no answer to it. But this:

nilcypher:
M: (Hands Bond a Walther P99) I don't mind telling you 007, you have a lot to live up to.
Bond: (Looks at the pistol for a moment) I'm well aware of that sir. (Holsters the gun)

or

Bond: The name's Bond, James Bond.
Bond Girl: Funny, I always thought you were white.
Bond: (Smiles wryly)I get that a lot.

Makes me think that it could work extremely well. Provided the Bond Girl is handled even more delicately than it is now days, a black Bond girl can and has worked, but if done poorly and for the wrong reasons (Because bond is black) it fails for the same reason a black Bond would. Provided race is not the excuse, it is never an obstacle.

Alex_P:
The James Bond movies are more like a set of stock characters than a single coherent continuity.

nilcypher:

... Now, with that in mind, did anyone mind that Hugh Jackman is actually quite tall?

I'm not sure how to phrase it properly (it's late after a long shift at work) but I feel these two posts go hand in hand.

While I'm totally open to the idea of an awesome, sophisticated, suave, smart, deadly, black secret agent, he couldn't be Bond. Bond is a white British male. That'd be like if they got a black actor to play hitler in a movie. If they want to see a Bond movie with a black guy, why not round up a few good actors, some good writers, and a good director, and make your own secret agent movie about a black guy.

nilcypher:

Ronwue:
I think they should stick to the original character. If he's going to be black let's have him being Asian as well what the hell. Let's fuck up another character concept for the sake of political fairness. This "fab" of political correct is starting to get out of hand and on my nerves.

I think you mean 'fad'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying 'THE NEXT JAMES BOND MUST BE BLACK!", I'm just saying that if it was handled right, the next James Bond could be black.

Yeah, it could be like Bubba Ho-Tep,

"Jack, John F. Kennedy was a white man."
"They dyed me this color!"

Ronin_14-47:
While I'm totally open to the idea of an awesome, sophisticated, suave, smart, deadly, black secret agent, he couldn't be Bond. Bond is a white British male.

Not to say you don't realize or acknowledge this fact, but there are black british people.

nilcypher:

Ronwue:
I think they should stick to the original character. If he's going to be black let's have him being Asian as well what the hell. Let's fuck up another character concept for the sake of political fairness. This "fab" of political correct is starting to get out of hand and on my nerves.

I think you mean 'fad'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying 'THE NEXT JAMES BOND MUST BE BLACK!", I'm just saying that if it was handled right, the next James Bond could be black.

Yea, sorry for my wrong spelling. It was late.

I don't disagree that he could be black... I'm saying that he shouldn't be and not for any other reason than because it is not in his character concept. Let's have a black harry potter as well, a black Alladin and a black Aragon and a black "insert popular character here" as we're at it. And after that let's make them all Asian. That would give movies some great depth and concept if we tweak around.

We could do all of those things, but those are very different cases. James Bond differs because a case can be made that many people have been James Bond, 007. The same is not true for Harry Potter or Aragorn. Harry Potter can not, in any context, be construed as a code name.

You could get away with a black Aladdin though, or at least a middle eastern one.