Ronwue:
a black Alladin

Are you talking about Aladdin, from the Disney movie fame? 'Cos he was Arabic, and thus, if we were to follow the original IP's directions, we would have a Middle Eastern actor. Although, an African actor could work as well, since the Islamic empire extended into Northern Africa as well, during the height of its rule, and thus, an African Aladdin could work in canon.

As for a 'black' Bond, as long as he was British, had awesome gadgets, shagged lots'a'women, and had LvL 20 Charisma (in effect, kept true to the characteristics of the character), then I don't see why not. I'm more worried that Daniel Craig doesn't say "Shaken, not stirred" and "Bond, James Bond" in the new films, because that, to me, is worse than having an actor of African descent that does say such things. It's not who that I'm worried about, it's the amount of skill they have as an actor, and whether or not the archetype of Bond is fulfilled by the character.

nilcypher:
Goddamnit! You're right! That's what I get for trying to argue a point at two in the morning.

EDIT:

Jharry5:
Nothing about an established character should be changed. Bond's creator, Ian Flaming, wrote him as a white Brit, and changing anything about the character would go against what the character's creator had in mind when writing the stories...

As I've said before, if we go off what Fleming wrote, he'd be almost ninety now. The first Bond novel was published in 1953 and Bond was in his thirties then.

Who gives a crap? It is just the idea of honoring the source material. Superman would be old as hell too, as would Batman and a bunch of other characters. It is only the idea of honoring the source material that matters.

And by the count more people think the idea is FAIL than not.

nilcypher:
We could do all of those things, but those are very different cases. James Bond differs because a case can be made that many people have been James Bond, 007. The same is not true for Harry Potter or Aragorn. Harry Potter can not, in any context, be construed as a code name.

You could get away with a black Aladdin though, or at least a middle eastern one.

the original Lord of the Rings Cartoon had a native american Aragorn. There's some food for thought.

Are we talking black american or black british? British, I would be fine with, since bond is a codename given to a specific operative, but an american? hell no. Gangsta Bond? good gods. Sean Connery would come out of retirment to cut someone down, Highlander style.

I think a black man would have trouble infiltrating a Russian millitary base... just sayin'. It's the Black Captain America argument all over again.

If the actor was any good, then sure, why not.

axia777:

nilcypher:
Goddamnit! You're right! That's what I get for trying to argue a point at two in the morning.

EDIT:

Jharry5:
Nothing about an established character should be changed. Bond's creator, Ian Flaming, wrote him as a white Brit, and changing anything about the character would go against what the character's creator had in mind when writing the stories...

As I've said before, if we go off what Fleming wrote, he'd be almost ninety now. The first Bond novel was published in 1953 and Bond was in his thirties then.

Who gives a crap? It is just the idea of honoring the source material. Superman would be old as hell too, as would Batman and a bunch of other characters. It is only the idea of honoring the source material that matters.

And by the count more people think the idea is FAIL than not.

So in essence, as long as the spirit of the character is right, then other details become inconsequential? Well if that is the case, then I would say that as long as Bond is a suave, womanising, man of action, his race is meaningless.

Incidentally, the DC Comics universe gets semi-regular reboots the keep it up to date, so actually Batman and Superman wouldn't be all that old.

EDIT: I added a new option to the poll

nilcypher:

axia777:

nilcypher:
Goddamnit! You're right! That's what I get for trying to argue a point at two in the morning.

EDIT:

Jharry5:
Nothing about an established character should be changed. Bond's creator, Ian Flaming, wrote him as a white Brit, and changing anything about the character would go against what the character's creator had in mind when writing the stories...

As I've said before, if we go off what Fleming wrote, he'd be almost ninety now. The first Bond novel was published in 1953 and Bond was in his thirties then.

Who gives a crap? It is just the idea of honoring the source material. Superman would be old as hell too, as would Batman and a bunch of other characters. It is only the idea of honoring the source material that matters.

And by the count more people think the idea is FAIL than not.

So in essence, as long as the spirit of the character is right, then other details become inconsequential? Well if that is the case, then I would say that as long as Bond is a suave, womanising, man of action, his race is meaningless.

Incidentally, the DC Comics universe gets semi-regular reboots the keep it up to date, so actually Batman and Superman wouldn't be all that old.

EDIT: I added a new option to the poll

Please do not add to the poll. I did the poll this way to deal with absolutes. "If done correctly then yes" is subjective. If it was done then the people who are saying yes would lean more towards saying it was done correctly while the ones saying no wouldn't. So an option like that tells us nothing we don't already know.

Meangunns:

Please do not add to the poll. I did the poll this way to deal with absolutes. "If done correctly then yes" is subjective. If it was done then the people who are saying yes would lean more towards saying it was done correctly while the ones saying no wouldn't. So an option like that tells us nothing we don't already know.

I see.

So basically you want people to condense their opinions into a simple binary answer? If you were going to do that, you could at least ask the right question The question you should be asking is "Could there be a black Bond?/ The question of should comes after the possibility has been established.

I've only read up to page 3 in this thread, so I apologise if this has been said already.

Shaft's blackness is intrinsic to his character. He fights racist bad guys, almost every scene has him beating the shit out of someone for saying something nasty about black people. Luke Cage's blackness is also a deep basis for his entire background, character and motivation.

Bond, however, is not motivated by his ethnicity, but by his tortured origins, and his duty to his country: Britain. His skin colour has absolutely nothing to do with his character or motivation.

His gender certainly does; that can only change if it becomes normal to depict debonair female chauvinists who are nonetheless charming.

Also, I'd like to quote something I couldn't let slide:

"Look at it this way. If we make a black Bond, then why can't we make Bond a Native American spy for the CIA? Hell, why don't we turn James Bond into a promiscuous woman named Jenny Bond? Hell, why don't we turn it on its head and make Bond a Russian spy for the KGB during the Cold War? See what I'm getting at here? If you let one major change like that, then that opens up the possibility of changing the character so much in later iterations that they hardly resemble the original source material."

Essentially, you're talking utter crap. Why on earth would you consider the colour of a man's skin to be anything like as important as his loyalty to his country? I won't accuse you of being a bigot, but I cannot honestly see how it makes the slightest bit of difference.

We are not proposing that James Bond be turned into James Brown, but that, as long as the character's CULTURAL background remains the same, which I agree is essential, his RACIAL background makes no fucking difference.

Finally, stop being so bloody defensive. A black actor will only ever be chosen to play Bond if, like Connery, Brosnan and Craig before him, he is the best man for the job.

nilcypher:
We could do all of those things, but those are very different cases. James Bond differs because a case can be made that many people have been James Bond, 007. The same is not true for Harry Potter or Aragorn. Harry Potter can not, in any context, be construed as a code name.

You could get away with a black Aladdin though, or at least a middle eastern one.

As I recall the opening line from the story in Arabian Nights goes something like...

"There was a little Chinese Boy named Aladdin"

So his race has been wrong from pretty much the get go.

And WERE they to make a black bond, Chitwell Ejioffer would be a stellar choice.
http://www.hbo.com/films/tsunami/img/castandcrew/506x316_chiwetel.jpg

PedroSteckecilo:

nilcypher:
We could do all of those things, but those are very different cases. James Bond differs because a case can be made that many people have been James Bond, 007. The same is not true for Harry Potter or Aragorn. Harry Potter can not, in any context, be construed as a code name.

You could get away with a black Aladdin though, or at least a middle eastern one.

As I recall the opening line from the story in Arabian Nights goes something like...

"There was a little Chinese Boy named Aladdin"

So his race has been wrong from pretty much the get go.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the story of Aladdin as found in the Arabian Nights. It was a much later addition, stuck in there by the British.

nilcypher:

axia777:

nilcypher:
Goddamnit! You're right! That's what I get for trying to argue a point at two in the morning.

EDIT:

Jharry5:
Nothing about an established character should be changed. Bond's creator, Ian Flaming, wrote him as a white Brit, and changing anything about the character would go against what the character's creator had in mind when writing the stories...

As I've said before, if we go off what Fleming wrote, he'd be almost ninety now. The first Bond novel was published in 1953 and Bond was in his thirties then.

Who gives a crap? It is just the idea of honoring the source material. Superman would be old as hell too, as would Batman and a bunch of other characters. It is only the idea of honoring the source material that matters.

And by the count more people think the idea is FAIL than not.

So in essence, as long as the spirit of the character is right, then other details become inconsequential? Well if that is the case, then I would say that as long as Bond is a suave, womanising, man of action, his race is meaningless.

Incidentally, the DC Comics universe gets semi-regular reboots the keep it up to date, so actually Batman and Superman wouldn't be all that old.

EDIT: I added a new option to the poll

No, that is not what I meant at all. Bond was written as a white British man and should stay a white British man, PERIOD.

Just like Superman is a white guy, Blade is a black guy, Bat Man is a white guy, and Rhodes from Iron Man is a black guy. Should we change Rhodes white? And if so why? I mean if we are at it is that ok? How about turning Shaft white? Is that bad? Would black people get offended?

What is this crap of trying to envision every super hero as black some other race than what they were written as? It worked just fine for Nick Fury because MARVEL re-wrote the character for the Ultimates line. That was sanctioned by the people who wrote the character. That and the fact that the old school Fury was from WWII.

Just leave the source material alone.

BTW, it will never happen.

Eggo:
I thought race didn't matter?

It does not. Honoring the source material does. People need to stop trying to re-write perfectly good written characters.

Lets make the easter bunny an elephant!

axia777:
That and the fact that the old school Fury was from WWII.

Not unlike a certain secret agent I can think of.

curlycrouton:
I think, go for it, as long as it worked, and that he was British. (I'm not being racist, surely you know that all Bonds are British?)

Yeah, about that. Pierce Brosnon, the second last Bond was Irish. He was born in Navan which is in Meath. So sorry about that. But not all Bond's are British

Now, to reply to the original topic. No i dont think a black bond will work becasue, Bond is white. Im not racist but i just think Bond should stay the same as he was for years. Thats why i dont really like Daniel Craig as a Bond..he acts like an ass hole and he has blonde hair. He just isint James Bond. No matter how hard he tires, he will never be a Bond to me.

Um... Bond was written as an asshole lest we forget. Casino Royale is fairly true to the book and the original character except there are a bunch of action sequences added in and the movie is updated to fit modern storytelling techniques.

PedroSteckecilo:
Um... Bond was written as an asshole lest we forget. Casino Royale is fairly true to the book and the original character except there are a bunch of action sequences added in and the movie is updated to fit modern storytelling techniques.

This is actually true. People who think he was written as a suave debonair have never read the books by Fleming. Sure he got laid, but Bond was actually a real had case asshole.

And he was a white British man. Nothing can change that.

Eggo:

axia777:
It does not. Honoring the source material does. People need to stop trying to re-write perfectly good written characters.

M was a man and Bond had black hair.

And since race doesn't matter, how is it a rewrite of a perfectly "good" written character?

Changing race changes origins. M does not matter because it is a secondary character that we hardly see. It is not the archetypal charter that Bond has became. Hair color also really does not matter much as it is but a small detail. Race is no small detail. It is a large one.

And when I say race does not matter I mean in the context of black super heroes are just as valid as white ones. But only if they are written that way. I would not want Blade or Shaft to be turned white of any other race either.

As some above said, only if Chiwetel Ejiofor gets the job. Otherwise, no.

Well, ok, on one condition. I get to remake Shaft with the titular character played by Will Ferrell :P

gabriel_pierce:
Well, ok, on one condition. I get to remake Shaft with the titular character played by Will Ferrell :P

That would be terrible.....

Who ever can play the character well. But it would be retarded to change something like that. White people are too guilty these days. I mean blacks don't care if the guy is white, why should we?

I quite frankly don't care, because I'm not going to see a another new Bond film after Quantum of Solace.

You don't have to be British to be Bond.

There have been two Bonds who have not been, Lazenby (Australia) and Brosnan (Irish, RoI, not NI). Whilst being able to 'be British' is a must, the actors country of origin really matters not.

J-Man:
Political Correctness is unnecessary, I just believe it doesn't matter, all we need is a good actor.

Maybe Samuel L Jackson. "I want these mother****ing agents, off my mother****ing mission!"

I would watch a bond movie with Samuel L Jackson...would be the most hilarious film ever, though it would also suck horribly.

Resistance205:

curlycrouton:
I think, go for it, as long as it worked, and that he was British. (I'm not being racist, surely you know that all Bonds are British?)

Yeah, about that. Pierce Brosnon, the second last Bond was Irish. He was born in Navan which is in Meath. So sorry about that. But not all Bond's are British

Now, to reply to the original topic. No i dont think a black bond will work becasue, Bond is white. Im not racist but i just think Bond should stay the same as he was for years. Thats why i dont really like Daniel Craig as a Bond..he acts like an ass hole and he has blonde hair. He just isint James Bond. No matter how hard he tires, he will never be a Bond to me.

No, I meant the Bond character is British. Hell, an American could play him if he acted as a convincing Brit.

Black Bond.....Like I said, by all means, as long as it worked, and as long as it wasn't condescending.

If the makers of Bond wanted to change the race of the protagonist, than they had better be making such a decision based on their intended target audience. I get the feeling that most of the the people who grew up with Bond, would rather than he retained some shred of his original form. And if he were black, the new black audience would be disappointed that the character isn't like the guy in Rush Hour 3. I don't mean to generalize, but the black people that I know tend to want to see action films and "yeeeeaaaah booooi" humor intertwined when the protagonist is black. I think they'll be snoring if the "Black Bond" wasn't Chris Rock.

nilcypher:

Meangunns:

Please do not add to the poll. I did the poll this way to deal with absolutes. "If done correctly then yes" is subjective. If it was done then the people who are saying yes would lean more towards saying it was done correctly while the ones saying no wouldn't. So an option like that tells us nothing we don't already know.

I see.

So basically you want people to condense their opinions into a simple binary answer? If you were going to do that, you could at least ask the right question The question you should be asking is "Could there be a black Bond?/ The question of should comes after the possibility has been established.

Look the whole point of being able to post in the thread is to explain why you think it should or should not happen. Beside you only added a seconday yes option and not a seconday no option. Basically you only cared about expanding on one opinion. Also the question is should and not could. The possibility has been and will always be there anything is possible. The question is should it happen, is okay to change an established character. Not to mention you added another option after a lot of people had already voted.

Come on. Those fuckers went ballistic over a blonde Bond. I don't think I could handle the whining and shrieks of "WELL I THOUGHT RACE DIDN'T MATTER MISTER SMARTY PANTS!!". That being said I think it'd be make for an interesting twist providing twist. Each actor has portrayed the character in a very different way which, in my sweet and humble opinion, is what's given him his longevity. That and we all love thinly disguised boner jokes.

PedroSteckecilo:
If they were to, the guy who played the Operative in Serenity, he was also in Children of Men whose name I unfortunately can't spell, would be the best choice

I agree with you. If Bond were to change race, that would be the best actor for the job.

Edit: Bond's skin color does not matter, as long as he is British (Or Scottish).

in my opinion it would take the enjoyment out of it. I'd be spending the entire movie wondering how much smaller my peins is than black bond's. I'd walk out of there with a complex, not even remembering a single plot point.

Yegargeburble:

PedroSteckecilo:
If they were to, the guy who played the Operative in Serenity, he was also in Children of Men whose name I unfortunately can't spell, would be the best choice

I agree with you. If Bond were to change race, that would be the best actor for the job.

Edit: Bond's skin color does not matter, as long as he is British (Or Scottish).

Or Irish. Or Australian.

J-Man:
It's irrelevant, unless you're a racist moron from the deep south of America, what does it matter? The Bond series has already been ruined by the latest two Jason Bourne copy-cat films.

Jason Bourne isn't a copy of James Bond! Just because they both have spies, they're almost nothing alike.

Besides, you can quite clearly see that Casino Royale took a lot from the Bourne films to apply it to Bond.

Here's why the Bourne series is better, or at least why the third film is; there is no forced love interest. It doesn't hamper the story and doesn't force those same tired clichés down our throats.

In every Bond film he has to fall for a woman, have her double cross him, have her save him and then end up with him to be forgotten in the next film.

As to whether there should be a black Bond. If you want it to match the original idea that Flemming had then it would be your typical white high class Brit from the sixties.

But really it's a bit of a racist question because colour should have no effect on the character. I mean there's no reason Bond couldn't be a woman or in a wheelchair or have a gay relationship.

If you want it to match the original idea that Flemming had then it would be your typical white high class Brit from the sixties.