First off, Hello! I've been browsing this forum for the last couple of weeks and thought it was time I joined in.
Secondly, having seen the generally intelligent level of discussion I have witnessed I thought I would ask a question. I myself am a post-graduate student of European politics and as such am quite an ardent supporter of the EU. I was curious as to other people's perceptions of the orgnisation particularly as many of you are from states outside the EU. Are you in favour of it? What do you know about it? It would probably be helpful if you state in your post which country you are from. Personally, I live in the UK.
Also, this may sound a bit big-headed but if anyone does have a question about the EU I would be happy to attempt an answer.
How does the EU deal with millitary action? It doesn't seem that the EU member nations have any sort of unified guidline for equipment and tactics. How do member nations' genrals decide what course of action to take?
Does the EU consider all of the countries armies as one ? How close are the member states ? In my understanding the EU is like a single country , is this right?
Phantom2595: Does the EU consider all of the countries armies as one ? How close are the member states ? In my understanding the EU is like a single country , is this right?
It was my understanding that the EU is considered one big country. If so then are they represented as such in the UN or are they split back into their individual member nations?
Scolar Visari: How does the EU deal with millitary action? It doesn't seem that the EU member nations have any sort of unified guidline for equipment and tactics. How do member nations' genrals decide what course of action to take?
Basically it all boils down to: Step 1-America invades a country Step 2-The UK joins in, (we don't think for ourselves anymore) Step 3-The rest of Europe either helps us, or berates us for being that stupid.
Phantom2595: Does the EU consider all of the countries armies as one ? How close are the member states ? In my understanding the EU is like a single country , is this right?
Ohhh no our armies are not joint into one large army (sorry not trying to steal your show but I live in The Netherlands and would very much like to address this question).
What the E.U. does is have parliament meetings with delegates from every country (amount of delegates based on countries' population) and they make all the decisions for the E.U. This includes how all individual's countries' military forces will be used in general. This only means they watch each other's backs. It is in no way mandatory for the whole of the E.U. to go to e.g. Iraq when for example the army of The Netherlands decides to do this.
Just a little info: I got most my knowledge on this from of course living in Europe but a big part of my knowledge of the E.U. comes from a government simulation programme called the Model European Parliament, wherein students from schools over Europe simulate the European parliament and make decisions like the real parliament would. By saying this I admit that I do not have a great knowledge of the whole of the E.U. and that the OP might have a better answer for you. I just wanted to touch on the subject.
Scolar Visari: How does the EU deal with millitary action? It doesn't seem that the EU member nations have any sort of unified guidline for equipment and tactics. How do member nations' genrals decide what course of action to take?
Basically it all boils down to: Step 1-America invades a country Step 2-The UK joins in, (we don't think for ourselves anymore) Step 3-The rest of Europe either helps us, or berates us for being that stupid.
That's how things have been for a long time.
The UK is like our friend who's sitting in the jail cell telling us how muchh fun that was. Except he knows how to control his liquor, and we have some fun and break some shit. Eventually we're out and going out on the town once again.
The rest or Europe will help us make bail, or visit us just to tell us that was a stupid idea.
Phantom2595: Does the EU consider all of the countries armies as one ? How close are the member states ? In my understanding the EU is like a single country , is this right?
Ohhh no our armies are not joint into one large army (sorry not trying to steal your show but I live in The Netherlands and would very much like to address this question).
What the E.U. does is have parliament meetings with delegates from every country (amount of delegates based on countries' population) and they make all the decisions for the E.U. This includes how all individual's countries' military forces will be used in general. This only means they watch each other's backs. It is in no way mandatory for the whole of the E.U. to go to e.g. Iraq when for example the army of The Netherlands decides to do this.
Just a little info I got most my knowledge on this from of course living in Europe but a big part of my knowledge of the E.U. comes from a government simulation called the Model European Parliament, wherein students from schools over Europe simulate the European parliament and make decisions like the real parliament would. By saying this I admit that I do not have a great knowledge of the whole of the E.U. and that the OP might have a better answer for you. I just wanted to touch on the subject.
Cool, thanks for the answer. Here in the U.S we having something called the model UN which is sort of like your MEP thing. I just hope your MEP classes aren't as bad as our MUN classes. (hint nothing gets done, just like the real UN)
Phantom2595: Does the EU consider all of the countries armies as one ? How close are the member states ? In my understanding the EU is like a single country , is this right?
Ohhh no our armies are not joint into one large army (sorry not trying to steal your show but I live in The Netherlands and would very much like to address this question).
What the E.U. does is have parliament meetings with delegates from every country (amount of delegates based on countries' population) and they make all the decisions for the E.U. This includes how all individual's countries' military forces will be used in general. This only means they watch each other's backs. It is in no way mandatory for the whole of the E.U. to go to e.g. Iraq when for example the army of The Netherlands decides to do this.
Just a little info I got most my knowledge on this from of course living in Europe but a big part of my knowledge of the E.U. comes from a government simulation called the Model European Parliament, wherein students from schools over Europe simulate the European parliament and make decisions like the real parliament would. By saying this I admit that I do not have a great knowledge of the whole of the E.U. and that the OP might have a better answer for you. I just wanted to touch on the subject.
Cool, thanks for the answer. Here in the U.S we having something called the model UN which is sort of like your MEP thing. I just hope your MEP classes aren't as bad as our MUN classes. (hint nothing gets done, just like the real UN)
We also Have a MUN in The Hague! I can't go though because my school doesn't participate but some of my contacts from the American school of Paris say it's great over there. A lot of students attend every year, and I just might go over there to say hi to a couple of my MEP acquaintances.
Oh and we got lots of stuff done at MEP :) Some great common positions were passed (unfortunately mine wasn't :( ).
Phantom2595: Does the EU consider all of the countries armies as one ? How close are the member states ? In my understanding the EU is like a single country , is this right?
Ohhh no our armies are not joint into one large army (sorry not trying to steal your show but I live in The Netherlands and would very much like to address this question).
What the E.U. does is have parliament meetings with delegates from every country (amount of delegates based on countries' population) and they make all the decisions for the E.U. This includes how all individual's countries' military forces will be used in general. This only means they watch each other's backs. It is in no way mandatory for the whole of the E.U. to go to e.g. Iraq when for example the army of The Netherlands decides to do this.
Just a little info I got most my knowledge on this from of course living in Europe but a big part of my knowledge of the E.U. comes from a government simulation called the Model European Parliament, wherein students from schools over Europe simulate the European parliament and make decisions like the real parliament would. By saying this I admit that I do not have a great knowledge of the whole of the E.U. and that the OP might have a better answer for you. I just wanted to touch on the subject.
Cool, thanks for the answer. Here in the U.S we having something called the model UN which is sort of like your MEP thing. I just hope your MEP classes aren't as bad as our MUN classes. (hint nothing gets done, just like the real UN)
Excellent! I knew the Escapist was the right place for me. The very first reponse nailed the most crucial debated in contemporary European poltics. Beautiful! Either that or you're just obsessed with war.
Anyway, the question of military defence is a very big topic within the EU so I'll try to keep this brief. Currently, since the ratification to the Maastricht treaty, decisions within the EU have been divided into three 'pillars': European Communities, Justice and Home Affairs and Common Foreign and Security Policy (CFSP). Decision making regarding to the CFSP can only be made by the Council of Ministers meeting as the General Affairs and external Relations Committee. Currently, there is no 'European army' but since the failure of the EU to act in Yugoslavia there has been considerable movement in the direction of military co-operation. There are commitments to suppy X amount of soldiers for X months at X days notice but they are not compulsory for membership and not all states participate. This forces can be deplyed by a vote in the council which used to have to be unanimous. However, again, after the failure of Yugoslavia a new procedure was implemented in the area of defence known as creative anstention in which if a state abstains from voting it does not halt the decision. This means groups of states can make use of the security agreements within the EU while other states remain uninvolved. If the Lisbon treaty is passed then the head of CFSP Javier Solana will become the High Commisioner for Foreign Affairs, basically a foreign minister for the EU. This post is mainly intended for international negotiation but it will also be vice-president of the European Council and as such can have considerable affects of decisions regarding common defence.
Apologies for the long post but as I'm sure you can appreciate this is a massive issue and I have only just scratched the surface. I could go on much loger on the issues of defence but I fear people would begin to lose interest. I will if you like but I'll at least give you the option before I get carried away.
Is the European Union the Trojan horse for the New World Order, who also wants to create a North American Union, make superhighways, and take away our guns?
Ken Korda: Excellent! I knew the Escapist was the right place for me. The very first reponse nailed the most crucial debated in contemporary European poltics. Beautiful! Either that or you're just obsessed with war.
Anyway, the question of military defence is a very big topic within the EU so I'll try to keep this brief. Currently, since the ratification to the Maastricht treaty, decisions within the EU have been divided into three 'pillars': European Communities, Justice and Home Affairs and Common Foreign and Security Policy (CFSP). Decision making regarding to the CFSP can only be made by the Council of Ministers meeting as the General Affairs and external Relations Committee. Currently, there is no 'European army' but since the failure of the EU to act in Yugoslavia there has been considerable movement in the direction of military co-operation. There are commitments to suppy X amount of soldiers for X months at X days notice but they are not compulsory for membership and not all states participate. This forces can be deplyed by a vote in the council which used to have to be unanimous. However, again, after the failure of Yugoslavia a new procedure was implemented in the area of defence known as creative anstention in which if a state abstains from voting it does not halt the decision. This means groups of states can make use of the security agreements within the EU while other states remain uninvolved. If the Lisbon treaty is passed then the head of CFSP Javier Solana will become the High Commisioner for Foreign Affairs, basically a foreign minister for the EU. This post is mainly intended for international negotiation but it will also be vice-president of the European Council and as such can have considerable affects of decisions regarding common defence.
Apologies for the long post but as I'm sure you can appreciate this is a massive issue and I have only just scratched the surface. I could go on much loger on the issues of defence but I fear people would begin to lose interest. I will if you like but I'll at least give you the option before I get carried away.
Ha, you caught me, it's a little bit of both. If you're willing to talk I'm certainly willing to listen.
We go on about how great we are and how we stand up for people,but when a tyrant pops up and starts commiting war crimes etc. all they do is remove his honourary doctorate.
If the UN actually was threatening nobody would fight each other with out a very goood reason and even fix some problems.
I always thought the only reason why most of Europe followed America on its stupid wars was due to the NATO agreement and not the EU/UN?
We go on about how great we are and how we stand up for people,but when a tyrant pops up and starts commiting war crimes etc. all they do is remove his honourary doctorate.
If the UN actually was threatening nobody would fight each other with out a very goood reason and even fix some problems.
I always thought the only reason why most of Europe followed America on its stupid wars was due to the NATO agreement and not the EU/UN?
the EU is not the same as the UN, they don't even have the same purpose.
We go on about how great we are and how we stand up for people,but when a tyrant pops up and starts commiting war crimes etc. all they do is remove his honourary doctorate.
If the UN actually was threatening nobody would fight each other with out a very goood reason and even fix some problems.
I always thought the only reason why most of Europe followed America on its stupid wars was due to the NATO agreement and not the EU/UN?
But NATO gave us 5.56 and STANAG isn't that good for something? You're damn right about the UN being completely useless; they couldn't even force Russia out of Georgia.
We go on about how great we are and how we stand up for people,but when a tyrant pops up and starts commiting war crimes etc. all they do is remove his honourary doctorate.
If the UN actually was threatening nobody would fight each other with out a very goood reason and even fix some problems.
I always thought the only reason why most of Europe followed America on its stupid wars was due to the NATO agreement and not the EU/UN?
But NATO gave us 5.56 and STANAG isn't that good for something? You're damn right about the UN being completely useless; they couldn't even force Russia out of Georgia.
5.56 is a bad battle ammunition, it is almost useless against an armored target (I mean body armor) it has no stopping power(why do you think the US has been digging up all of its old m14's?). Its only upside is that it is high velocity and and accurate. But stanag is pretty good.
Duskwaith: I was a little mixed up with the EU and the UN there, hint the question mark.
Either way they still didnt do anything but yabber about restrictions no one will notice and/or care about.
League of Nations repeat anyone?
League of Nations was broken because the ones who came up with it didn't even join thus destroying every kind of motivation for other countries to join and make it work. If the U.S. didn't even trust the system it created itself how was anyone else supposed to?
Duskwaith: I was a little mixed up with the EU and the UN there, hint the question mark.
Either way they still didnt do anything but yabber about restrictions no one will notice and/or care about.
League of Nations repeat anyone?
If you mean the EU then the answer is very much 'no'. The EU was and still is but to a lesser degree and economic union whereas the League of Nations was much more a defence associations with delusions of grandeur of becoming a world government. The main source of the EU's power in global politics lies in what is traditionally referred to as 'soft power' (ie non-military, mainly economic).
We go on about how great we are and how we stand up for people,but when a tyrant pops up and starts commiting war crimes etc. all they do is remove his honourary doctorate.
If the UN actually was threatening nobody would fight each other with out a very goood reason and even fix some problems.
I always thought the only reason why most of Europe followed America on its stupid wars was due to the NATO agreement and not the EU/UN?
But NATO gave us 5.56 and STANAG isn't that good for something? You're damn right about the UN being completely useless; they couldn't even force Russia out of Georgia.
5.56 is a bad battle ammunition, it is almost useless against an armored target (I mean body armor) it has no stopping power(why do you think the US has been digging up all of its old m14's?). Its only upside is that it is high velocity and and accurate. But stanag is pretty good.
Meh, 5.56 tumbles and is a pretty controllable ammo but yeah 7.62 will always hold a spot in my heart. Lol at the old M14s being distributed though, they look like Tony Stark made them when he wasn't working on his suit in that cave. Also Georgia started that conflict and the West is just pissed because we trained them.
I would like to attend MUNs in other countries someday. In case anyone wanted to know, there is one in New York City (where the actual UN is). There's even a whole wikipedia page devoted to it!
Scolar Visari: How does the EU deal with millitary action? It doesn't seem that the EU member nations have any sort of unified guidline for equipment and tactics. How do member nations' genrals decide what course of action to take?
We go on about how great we are and how we stand up for people,but when a tyrant pops up and starts commiting war crimes etc. all they do is remove his honourary doctorate.
If the UN actually was threatening nobody would fight each other with out a very goood reason and even fix some problems.
I always thought the only reason why most of Europe followed America on its stupid wars was due to the NATO agreement and not the EU/UN?
But NATO gave us 5.56 and STANAG isn't that good for something? You're damn right about the UN being completely useless; they couldn't even force Russia out of Georgia.
5.56 is a bad battle ammunition, it is almost useless against an armored target (I mean body armor) it has no stopping power(why do you think the US has been digging up all of its old m14's?). Its only upside is that it is high velocity and and accurate. But stanag is pretty good.
Meh, 5.56 tumbles and is a pretty controllable ammo but yeah 7.62 will always hold a spot in my heart. Lol at the old M14s being distributed though, they look like Tony Stark made them when he wasn't working on his suit in that cave. Also Georgia started that conflict and the West is just pissed because we trained them.
you mean the EBR m14's? still the same old m14, just the stock is different, the pistol grip makes it easier to handle in full auto, and it bridges the gap between assault rifle and sniper.
We go on about how great we are and how we stand up for people,but when a tyrant pops up and starts commiting war crimes etc. all they do is remove his honourary doctorate.
If the UN actually was threatening nobody would fight each other with out a very goood reason and even fix some problems.
I always thought the only reason why most of Europe followed America on its stupid wars was due to the NATO agreement and not the EU/UN?
But NATO gave us 5.56 and STANAG isn't that good for something? You're damn right about the UN being completely useless; they couldn't even force Russia out of Georgia.
5.56 is a bad battle ammunition, it is almost useless against an armored target (I mean body armor) it has no stopping power(why do you think the US has been digging up all of its old m14's?). Its only upside is that it is high velocity and and accurate. But stanag is pretty good.
Meh, 5.56 tumbles and is a pretty controllable ammo but yeah 7.62 will always hold a spot in my heart. Lol at the old M14s being distributed though, they look like Tony Stark made them when he wasn't working on his suit in that cave. Also Georgia started that conflict and the West is just pissed because we trained them.
you mean the EBR m14's? still the same old m14, just the stock is different, the pistol grip makes it easier to handle in full auto, and it bridges the gap between assault rifle and sniper.
The EBRs look nice and I haven't heard any actual complaints but I'm talking about the original M14s that are still being issued as Designated Marksmen weapons. I don't even know why you brought up full auto, it just makes the weapon even harder to control. One more edit, the M14 is technicaly a battle rifle and now a Designated Marksmen weapon, the M4/M16 are both assault rifles
Duskwaith: I was a little mixed up with the EU and the UN there, hint the question mark.
Either way they still didnt do anything but yabber about restrictions no one will notice and/or care about.
League of Nations repeat anyone?
If you mean the EU then the answer is very much 'no'. The EU was and still is but to a lesser degree and economic union whereas the League of Nations was much more a defence associations with delusions of grandeur of becoming a world government. The main source of the EU's power in global politics lies in what is traditionally referred to as 'soft power' (ie non-military, mainly economic).
The LON was also about free trade aswell, having the seas free.
For something as powerful as the UN trade really isnt thht big a weapon, if somebody wants it they will go through everyone to get it.
Well, as far as I know, the EU enforces certain economic laws in every member country. Now, coming from a small country, I see these laws as favoring the bigger, more powerful states, because us smaller ones don't have the same level economy and generally can't do everything that we're required to do. Therefore, a question of mine might be as to why the EU does not differentiate these laws depending on the country? And second,why do they not favor economic independence for smaller nations, but instead exploit them to gain benefits for the big ones?
Second, how come their law is superior to national law?
I live in the U.S. and i still think the U.N. needs reworking. Dont get me wrong I love the concept but it really should give less power to the U.S. and Russia and such. They should give one vote to each country regardless of population and popular vote wins, even if the U.S. doesnt get its way. As a random side note no country should be able to "choose" to recognize a particular treaty as legitamate
First off, Hello! I've been browsing this forum for the last couple of weeks and thought it was time I joined in.
Secondly, having seen the generally intelligent level of discussion I have witnessed I thought I would ask a question. I myself am a post-graduate student of European politics and as such am quite an ardent supporter of the EU. I was curious as to other people's perceptions of the orgnisation particularly as many of you are from states outside the EU. Are you in favour of it? What do you know about it? It would probably be helpful if you state in your post which country you are from. Personally, I live in the UK.
Also, this may sound a bit big-headed but if anyone does have a question about the EU I would be happy to attempt an answer.
I'm going now. Bye!