So I don't know if anything similar has been done since my experience taught me the forum search function hasn't worked out for a couple of people here, which means eventhough there would have been a topic about this once there'd still be a chance that I wouldn't have found anything. So here goes:
In this thread I would like to discuss with you about alcohol. This is a harddrug which has been widely accepted in the society. Accepted a lot more than any other harddrug known to me. So I would like to know what your views are on alcohol consumption. Is it good that it's more widely available than any other harddrug on the market? Remember it destroys more lives than e.g. smoking or marhiuana but you can't get those at your local bar.
Also what do you think of the legal drinking age in your country? Is it good the way it is or should it be higher/lower? Also do the bars where you frequently go to check the consumer's ID's thoroughly enough? (please specify in which country you live and what the legal drinking age is in order to smoothen discussion).
If there is anything else on the subject you feel needs to be said or discussed, feel free to speak your mind.
Here's my story:
I live in The Netherlands,(legal age 16 for soft alcohol, 18 for strong alcohol) I'm 18 years old and I've been introduced to alcohol properly when I was 15. From then on I started drinking a beer or 2 when there was a party and that smoothly went up while I aged. By the time I was 16 going on 17 I was already drinking strong alcohol (not that much in bars, just at home/parties). My parents always made sure they knew what I was drinking and usually how much as well, so I didn't get into a lot of trouble and haven't gotten into trouble until now (knock on wood). I'm allowed to drink strong alcohol since two weeks ago and I enjoy a good scotch.
So my view on availability is a bit mixed, seeing as it is a harddrug and so many people screwed themselves over by consuming it that my conscience simply wouldn't have to allow such a thing. However the fact of the matter remains that I also indulge myself once in a while and because of this high availability I could continue to do this (quite illegally until two weeks ago). So I guess I disapprove of how easy it is to obtain something you don't even have the right to acquire, but I wouldn't want to be that much of a hypocrite and say I want to see it gone forever.
This brings me to the checking of ID's, as in it's not thorough enough. Unfortunately I rely on my boyish looks and charm to get girls, which works to my disadvantage when I go to buy strong alcohol, in that I always get asked for ID. However, a friend of mine who's 1 year younger than me can go get 3 shots of 50% without any problem since he's got a goatee. Now I understand that a bar can be a busy place and there's a lot of other people to serve but checking ID is done too superficial in my opinion. I have no idea how that could be helped but it's my view (eventhough I did get screwed over a lot by the superficial approach).
I look at it this way. The forbidden nature of alcohol to people under 21 (I'm in America, Nevada to be precise) makes it the perfect vehicle for rebellion and since as with most vices we're all a bunch of Helen "won't someone think of the CHILDREN?!" Lovejoys it leads to kids binge drinking more than they otherwise would.
America's puritanism and hypocritical adult/child dynamic leads to all sorts of bad decision making both by authority figures and by adolescents, whose main lesson they learn from life is "don't trust authority figures." There's a reason our alcoholism, teen pregnancy, and drug abuse rates are the highest in the industrialized world (and why our suicide rate is surpassed only by Japan's.) We treat our children like toddlers, then the day they turn 18 we expect them to act like mature adults.
Certain age limits make sense (pushing the age of sexual consent much below 16 is basically an open invitation to sexual predators without doing a damn thing about teen sex), but if our alcohol and drug laws weren't pants-on-head retarded I'm willing to bet we'd have a lot less teens ruining their lives in the name of normal adolescent tendencies to rebel.
Live in the USA, so drinking age is 21. That is bullshit personally, as you can buy cigarettes which imo are much worse at 18. Also if you are old enough to guy die in Iraq, you should be old enough to have a damn beer.
If you tell someone that they can't do something, that's just going to make them want to do it more. I can't drink legally, and I don't, but so many people got completely drunk at my school's last football game illegally that it wasn't even funny (OK, it was kinda funny to watch one of them stagger around and trip over their own feet), but anyway, it doesn't really matter what the drinking age is. If people really want to drink, they're going to drink whether someone tells them they can or not.
In the UK, the drinking age is 18 which I think is fine as it is. The main problem come from younger people sneaking into bars and clubs and getting completely smashed; these are the people that give the youth in Britain such a bad reputation. I think the only reason that drinking alcohol is as accepted as it is is due to the fact that we've been drinking for many, many years. And remember, in moderation, alcohol isn't that harmful at all. It's when you start to let it run your life that it becomes harmful... but so can anything. If it doesn't affect anyone else, why meddle in something that has nothing to do with you?
Ace of Spades: If you tell someone that they can't do something, that's just going to make them want to do it more. I can't drink legally, and I don't, but so many people got completely drunk at my school's last football game illegally that it wasn't even funny (OK, it was kinda funny to watch one of them stagger around and trip over their own feet), but anyway, it doesn't really matter what the drinking age is. If people really want to drink, they're going to drink whether someone tells them they can or not.
But don't you think that when the threshold is too high, people are inclined to drink earlier than when it's done in stages? I mean, over here we can drink beer when we turn 16. You can get drunk, but you'd need quite some beers to do so, plus most 16 year olds I know have some sort of parental supervision on this. Allowing the consumption of beer and the like keeps rebellious youth a little happy, without jumping straight to hard lquor. Then, when they turn 18 and gained a little know-how about the effects of alcohol - and hopefully some responsibility - they can drink all kinds of alcohol.
I live in the UK the age is 18 to buy in bars/shops but people under that age can be given alcohol by there parents at home legally. I guess I'm a binge drinker. I don't drink regularly 4 times a month maybe but when I do I aim to get completely fucked. I think it's fine as it is and people should stop trying to ruin a good thing which has worked for century's. but then I think quite a lot of illicit drugs should be legal as quite frankly it's the induividuals choice what they do with there body.
has anyone else noticed pretty much all laws in the last 60 years or so have been about a certain amount of people usually between 0-40% not liking something which another certain size of the public enjoy (from cycling on pavements to the right, to smoke with out the fag packet scaring the shit out of you) and eventually this will lead to everything fun being banned and everyone will be miserable but agree that everything that is illegal should be.
Ace of Spades: If you tell someone that they can't do something, that's just going to make them want to do it more. I can't drink legally, and I don't, but so many people got completely drunk at my school's last football game illegally that it wasn't even funny (OK, it was kinda funny to watch one of them stagger around and trip over their own feet), but anyway, it doesn't really matter what the drinking age is. If people really want to drink, they're going to drink whether someone tells them they can or not.
But don't you think that when the threshold is too high, people are inclined to drink earlier than when it's done in stages? I mean, over here we can drink beer when we turn 16. You can get drunk, but you'd need quite some beers to do so, plus most 16 year olds I know have some sort of parental supervision on this. Allowing the consumption of beer and the like keeps rebellious youth a little happy, without jumping straight to hard lquor. Then, when they turn 18 and gained a little know-how about the effects of alcohol - and hopefully some responsibility - they can drink all kinds of alcohol.
I have to say that's actually a good idea. However, convincing the American government of that is a bit trickier than convincing me.
Ace of Spades: If you tell someone that they can't do something, that's just going to make them want to do it more. I can't drink legally, and I don't, but so many people got completely drunk at my school's last football game illegally that it wasn't even funny (OK, it was kinda funny to watch one of them stagger around and trip over their own feet), but anyway, it doesn't really matter what the drinking age is. If people really want to drink, they're going to drink whether someone tells them they can or not.
But don't you think that when the threshold is too high, people are inclined to drink earlier than when it's done in stages? I mean, over here we can drink beer when we turn 16. You can get drunk, but you'd need quite some beers to do so, plus most 16 year olds I know have some sort of parental supervision on this. Allowing the consumption of beer and the like keeps rebellious youth a little happy, without jumping straight to hard lquor. Then, when they turn 18 and gained a little know-how about the effects of alcohol - and hopefully some responsibility - they can drink all kinds of alcohol.
I have to say that's actually a good idea. However, convincing the American government of that is a bit trickier than convincing me.
Yup that's what I figured.
..but that's not really my problem right now is it :3
Mr.Bubbles43: Live in the USA, so drinking age is 21. That is bullshit personally, as you can buy cigarettes which imo are much worse at 18. Also if you are old enough to guy die in Iraq, you should be old enough to have a damn beer.
My opinion: Eveyone should be allowed to do it, no-one should do it, adn if you do do it, stay the hell away from me 'till you sober up. Other than that I couldn't give a crap.
Mr.Bubbles43: Live in the USA, so drinking age is 21. That is bullshit personally, as you can buy cigarettes which imo are much worse at 18. Also if you are old enough to guy die in Iraq, you should be old enough to have a damn beer.
If your in the military you can drink at 18.
..As to avoid getting mentally disturbed when you have to shoot people again the next day?
Ace of Spades: If you tell someone that they can't do something, that's just going to make them want to do it more. I can't drink legally, and I don't, but so many people got completely drunk at my school's last football game illegally that it wasn't even funny (OK, it was kinda funny to watch one of them stagger around and trip over their own feet), but anyway, it doesn't really matter what the drinking age is. If people really want to drink, they're going to drink whether someone tells them they can or not.
But don't you think that when the threshold is too high, people are inclined to drink earlier than when it's done in stages? I mean, over here we can drink beer when we turn 16. You can get drunk, but you'd need quite some beers to do so, plus most 16 year olds I know have some sort of parental supervision on this. Allowing the consumption of beer and the like keeps rebellious youth a little happy, without jumping straight to hard lquor. Then, when they turn 18 and gained a little know-how about the effects of alcohol - and hopefully some responsibility - they can drink all kinds of alcohol.
I have to say that's actually a good idea. However, convincing the American government of that is a bit trickier than convincing me.
Yup that's what I figured.
..but that's not really my problem right now is it :3
Yep. Maybe some future president will fix the system.
But don't you think that when the threshold is too high, people are inclined to drink earlier than when it's done in stages?
I first got drunk about 4 years old, through maraschino cherries( liqueur based coating ), and I've been through some truly stupendous levels of drinking. Some friends of mine consume 50+ units a week, continuing to drink after they've thrown up the rest.
First thing needs to be that tolerance (whether caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, gaming or any other 'drug') needs to be taught at an early age. Second, it needs to be slowed as a means or recreation; or at least dealt with sensibly (I.E. Designated Drivers get free soft drinks, or anti-alcohol food, like pasta, is served at all times) Thirdly, there needs to be a limit on how much you're allowed to take at one time, and after vomiting seems to be the best point. Fourthly, supermarkets need to lay off the quick sales to people's problems. When Value Lager costs less than water, then something is very wrong. Fifthly, I'm on my fifth pint of the night and I'm STILL saying this.
But don't you think that when the threshold is too high, people are inclined to drink earlier than when it's done in stages?
I first got drunk about 4 years old, through maraschino cherries( liqueur based coating ), and I've been through some truly stupendous levels of drinking. Some friends of mine consume 50+ units a week, continuing to drink after they've thrown up the rest.
First thing needs to be that tolerance (whether caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, gaming or any other 'drug') needs to be taught at an early age. Second, it needs to be slowed as a means or recreation; or at least dealt with sensibly (I.E. Designated Drivers get free soft drinks, or anti-alcohol food, like pasta, is served at all times) Thirdly, there needs to be a limit on how much you're allowed to take at one time, and after vomiting seems to be the best point. Fourthly, supermarkets need to lay off the quick sales to people's problems. When Value Lager costs less than water, then something is very wrong. Fifthly, I'm on my fifth pint of the night and I'm STILL saying this.
Hear hear.
Of course you can kiss your ass goodbye when you introduce the free soft drink idea to a bar.
Ace of Spades: Yep. Maybe some future president will fix the system.
Heh, don't have much faith in Obama fixing it?
Not really. If actually does something about it I will be pleasantly surprised. If I could have voted in the 2008 election, I would have voted for Ralph Nader. :)
Mr.Bubbles43: Live in the USA, so drinking age is 21. That is bullshit personally, as you can buy cigarettes which imo are much worse at 18. Also if you are old enough to guy die in Iraq, you should be old enough to have a damn beer.
If your in the military you can drink at 18.
..As to avoid getting mentally disturbed when you have to shoot people again the next day?
Most likely to avoid the argument: "If he can die for his country why can't he drink?"
The bar I used to work for gave out free drinks for the drivers. Worked pretty well. Bonus was the Taxi drivers gave discounts for bar pick-ups after 1.
I hate alcohol and what it does to people (Note: i don't drink). The last party i was at, a lot of people had too much to drink, and they ended up trashing a lot of the inside of the hosts house. He was livid, but i guess he should've kept the doors locked (The bulk of the party was outside). People were sprawled everywhere, throwing up on the carpet, the garden, anywhere. It was disgusting. Why do people do this to themselves? I talked with most of the drunks while they were sober and they were really nice people, i don't get why they need to drink so much.
Casual/social drinking is fine, but if you're drinking to get drunk then you're doing it for the wrong reasons. There's nothing to gain but everything to lose if you drink to get drunk.
Mr.Bubbles43: Live in the USA, so drinking age is 21. That is bullshit personally, as you can buy cigarettes which imo are much worse at 18. Also if you are old enough to guy die in Iraq, you should be old enough to have a damn beer.
If your in the military you can drink at 18.
..As to avoid getting mentally disturbed when you have to shoot people again the next day?
Most likely to avoid the argument: "If he can die for his country why can't he drink?"
The bar I used to work for gave out free drinks for the drivers. Worked pretty well. Bonus was the Taxi drivers gave discounts for bar pick-ups after 1.
I was actually aiming at why the drinking age is lower for soldiers than normal citizens.
And your bar is awesome, I have yet to walk into such a place. All they do here is take your car keys when you had too much or stop serving you drinks.
Alcohol is a drug, binge drinking is retarded, and our drinking age is a joke. A 21 year old is going to make the same mistakes an 18 year old will make. Necroswanson thinks they should just re-instate the prohibition. Lord knows booze makes most people autistic.
Mr.Bubbles43: Live in the USA, so drinking age is 21. That is bullshit personally, as you can buy cigarettes which imo are much worse at 18. Also if you are old enough to guy die in Iraq, you should be old enough to have a damn beer.
If your in the military you can drink at 18.
..As to avoid getting mentally disturbed when you have to shoot people again the next day?
Most likely to avoid the argument: "If he can die for his country why can't he drink?"
The bar I used to work for gave out free drinks for the drivers. Worked pretty well. Bonus was the Taxi drivers gave discounts for bar pick-ups after 1.
I was actually aiming at why the drinking age is lower for soldiers than normal citizens.
And your bar is awesome, I have yet to walk into such a place. All they do here is take your car keys when you had too much or stop serving you drinks.
Yea, I thinks it's weak too, 21 is a bit old to have a first beer, especially after driving for 5 years. My thoughts are that you should have experience with alcohol before you start driving.
You should visit the Bremslicht :)
I have never had to take away keys, but then again, it's hard to notice who's the driver if everybody is drinking. The good thing about this place is that public transport is fairly well structured.
Im underage over here in England and my parents wont buy me any, but i have brothers in their 20's and most of my m8s parents are cool with it. I dont like drinking in public places as i someones a cock then its everybodys problem andnot just yours leading to some awkard situations. But the odd house party here and there is an excellent way to keep in touch with old friends.
Mr.Bubbles43: Live in the USA, so drinking age is 21. That is bullshit personally, as you can buy cigarettes which imo are much worse at 18. Also if you are old enough to guy die in Iraq, you should be old enough to have a damn beer.
If your in the military you can drink at 18.
..As to avoid getting mentally disturbed when you have to shoot people again the next day?
Most likely to avoid the argument: "If he can die for his country why can't he drink?"
The bar I used to work for gave out free drinks for the drivers. Worked pretty well. Bonus was the Taxi drivers gave discounts for bar pick-ups after 1.
I was actually aiming at why the drinking age is lower for soldiers than normal citizens.
And your bar is awesome, I have yet to walk into such a place. All they do here is take your car keys when you had too much or stop serving you drinks.
Yea, I thinks it's weak too, 21 is a bit old to have a first beer, especially after driving for 5 years. My thoughts are that you should have experience with alcohol before you start driving.
You should visit the Bremslicht :)
I have never had to take away keys, but then again, it's hard to notice who's the driver if everybody is drinking. The good thing about this place is that public transport is fairly well structured.
Americans on the forum may be interested to know that several university presidents around the country are trying to lobby the government to lower the drinking age to 18 so that college students will have more knowledge about alcohol and be able to make better decisions when they actually get to college.
I think the US should remove the Drinking age limet so toddlers drink and when there young and such and its not seen as the forbidden fruit but more as some orange jucie you drink after school because your out of Dr.Pepper. In germany there is no drinking age limet and there DUI and Drinking retalated crashes are 16 Times Fewer then that of America. that witch is in the US. In germany Kids drink pop not bear because it fucking TASTES BETTER Well (Cept coke w/ JD)
101194: I think the US should remove the Drinking age limet so toddlers drink and when there young and such and its not seen as the forbidden fruit but more as some orange jucie you drink after school because your out of Dr.Pepper. In germany there is no drinking age limet and there DUI and Drinking retalated crashes are 16 Times Fewer then that of America. that witch is in the US. In germany Kids drink pop not bear because it fucking TASTES BETTER Well (Cept coke w/ JD)
The age limit is 18 as of this year. Before that it was 16 for beer and 18 for everything else.
So I don't know if anything similar has been done since my experience taught me the forum search function hasn't worked out for a couple of people here, which means eventhough there would have been a topic about this once there'd still be a chance that I wouldn't have found anything. So here goes:
In this thread I would like to discuss with you about alcohol. This is a harddrug which has been widely accepted in the society. Accepted a lot more than any other harddrug known to me. So I would like to know what your views are on alcohol consumption. Is it good that it's more widely available than any other harddrug on the market? Remember it destroys more lives than e.g. smoking or marhiuana but you can't get those at your local bar.
Also what do you think of the legal drinking age in your country? Is it good the way it is or should it be higher/lower? Also do the bars where you frequently go to check the consumer's ID's thoroughly enough? (please specify in which country you live and what the legal drinking age is in order to smoothen discussion).
If there is anything else on the subject you feel needs to be said or discussed, feel free to speak your mind.
Here's my story:
I live in The Netherlands,(legal age 16 for soft alcohol, 18 for strong alcohol) I'm 18 years old and I've been introduced to alcohol properly when I was 15. From then on I started drinking a beer or 2 when there was a party and that smoothly went up while I aged. By the time I was 16 going on 17 I was already drinking strong alcohol (not that much in bars, just at home/parties). My parents always made sure they knew what I was drinking and usually how much as well, so I didn't get into a lot of trouble and haven't gotten into trouble until now (knock on wood). I'm allowed to drink strong alcohol since two weeks ago and I enjoy a good scotch.
So my view on availability is a bit mixed, seeing as it is a harddrug and so many people screwed themselves over by consuming it that my conscience simply wouldn't have to allow such a thing. However the fact of the matter remains that I also indulge myself once in a while and because of this high availability I could continue to do this (quite illegally until two weeks ago). So I guess I disapprove of how easy it is to obtain something you don't even have the right to acquire, but I wouldn't want to be that much of a hypocrite and say I want to see it gone forever.
This brings me to the checking of ID's, as in it's not thorough enough. Unfortunately I rely on my boyish looks and charm to get girls, which works to my disadvantage when I go to buy strong alcohol, in that I always get asked for ID. However, a friend of mine who's 1 year younger than me can go get 3 shots of 50% without any problem since he's got a goatee. Now I understand that a bar can be a busy place and there's a lot of other people to serve but checking ID is done too superficial in my opinion. I have no idea how that could be helped but it's my view (eventhough I did get screwed over a lot by the superficial approach).
So, what's your say on this?