Najos: It makes sense. Politics + science = Politology! I think I'm going to start using it. I have an interview for uni next week. Think I'll say it then.
I guess... It's a part of social sciences, concerned with the studies of the institutions of society, like the legislative organs, economics like Keynes and the like
Ha ha ha, I looked it up. I think its an odd name for Political Science. Admittedly the two words are a bit unwieldy but politology is hilarious.
grenobl: Patriotism is definitely not the same as nationalism. It supposedly means only that you love your own country, while nationalism means that you disrespect other countries or nations. The whole concept of nations is a relatively recent cultural development, it started somewhere after the medieval times in europe. Also, nationalism in europe is very different from nationalism in america or australia, whose inhabitants are actually descended from various nations from around the world - we might say that these countries can only be patriotic.
I dislike the idea of nations in the nationalist sense, because the only differences we have are purely cultural - we are all the same people, but we speak different languages, have different beliefs or simply live in different locations or regions. While nations have played a big role in the development of the present world, we might consider them outdated now. We are here, talking, from anywhere, the net is here, communication is instant and universal.. It seems to me that there is no reason to think with boundaries, to be nationalist. Nationalism is now just another division, a way to think of someone as "them", which gives "us" the liberty to behave in less than ethical ways. Wars are dependent on that division, as long as there are groups of "them" and "us" there can always be war.
I come from a nationalist country, it's not considered normal here if you aren't a gun wielding nationalist. But I am also a witness to wars which were led in the name of nationalism, and believe me, there is hardly anything worse... Oh yeah, I'm anti-nationalist.
P.S. Speaking from the back of my mind, I remember that the genetic similarity between us and chimps is 99,5%.. Making all of us practically the same. Making nationalism a celebration of the fact that I speak another language.. Well, languages and cultures can be learned, I guess. Nationalism sucks.
P.P.S. Mind that patriotism is fine with me, when I speak of nationalism I mean the kind where hatred is involved. Or divisions, or disrespect. Or lack of thinking.
I guess... It's a part of social sciences, concerned with the studies of the institutions of society, like the legislative organs, economics like Keynes and the like
Ha ha ha, I looked it up. I think its an odd name for Political Science. Admittedly the two words are a bit unwieldy but politology is hilarious.
damn.. I thought it was pretty common. Does it sound like something funny or wrong? It seem like you english people think it's a very dodgy word :P
To the extent of hating/fearing everywhere and everyone else, bad.
It may not be particularly rational, but I think there's a place for "yay us, go <country>, we're awesome" despite not having any personal connection to the success at hand... I don't go in for that much myself, but I still have some pride in my country, just because I kinda like it here. Had I been born elsewhere no doubt I would have been socialised by that different culture and ended up liking it there just as much, but... but fuck you is why.
In any case, I don't see the harm of it so long as rational thought isn't suspended as a part of it (which unfortunately it all too often is).
I guess... It's a part of social sciences, concerned with the studies of the institutions of society, like the legislative organs, economics like Keynes and the like
Ha ha ha, I looked it up. I think its an odd name for Political Science. Admittedly the two words are a bit unwieldy but politology is hilarious.
damn.. I thought it was pretty common. Does it sound like something funny or wrong? It seem like you english people think it's a very dodgy word :P
Whenever we refer to it as a subject its almost always 'Politics'. As in "I have an A-level in Politics". Sometimes you get "Political Science" degrees but I've never even heard of politology. It sounds made up, like "economology" or something. My full degree title from Edinburgh is Politics and Economic and Social History.
Good, I thought it was something dirty.. Like: "I've got a searing pain in my left politology" or "I want to introduce my girlfriend to politology, but I don't know if our relationship is ready" :P
There's a difference between nationalism and patriotism, I think. I always thought of patriotism as a love of one's country, one's homeland. There are two different kinds of patriotism in the U.S.A. but since I talked about that in a different thread, and since this is about nationalism, I'm not going into that again.
Nationalism, in my view, is different from patriotism in that it is love of one's nation. Being a nation implies a unique culture and ethnicity that is shared by a vast majority of the population. As such, nationalism is a love of all these things.
Here in America, there really isn't such a thing as nationalism. We have a culture, but we have no ethnicity that is shared by a VAST majority of the population. Americans can trace their ancestries to many of the different ethnicities contained with each race, i.e. Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Iberian, Slavic, etc. We have quite a bit of patriotism here in American, but nationalism is an impossibility here.
By the way, too much of anything can be harmful. It's OK to have some pride in one's nation, just as long as you acknowledge its more shameful actions as well. Guilt doesn't extend across generations, but each new generation must face the mistakes of the previous generations so that those mistakes aren't repeated.
TheDean: NATIONALISM, does this answer your question?
I'm not entirely sure, but I'm going to go with no here.
You jerk! THe answer was after that bit. MORON!
I'm sorry for misinterpreting you Dean. But look at your sentence... it look like NATIONALISM is the answer for my question.
Please don't refrain to calling me a jerk AND a moron... if you're going to call me something please make up your mind. And ... Don't call me names please, it makes you sound like an infant
As far as I know, a wave of nationalism is sweeping across the globe. Where I'm from (Denmark) nationalism it thriving, constantly feasting off of old people who fear "strangers". Constantly being superimposed in the media as an urgent threat to the country it self. In the case of Denmark, I'm not entirely sure of what people are afraid of losing... Most of the culture being portrayed as danish is typically something rural, something "smalltownish" playing on familiar strings like coffee and cake in a countryside house - something relating to a period so distant.. like the world doesn't change if we just close our eyes (and our borders)
Nationalism makes me a sad panda...
Mind me if I'm wrong How is the nationalism coming along in your countries?
What are people afraid of losing? Social integrity (seeing rapes in Denmark have skyrocketed) Freedom of speech (Muhammed cartoons)
Be proud of what you currently have compared to some crappy places..
Seeing as rapes in Denmark have skyrocketed since when? and source please We can't really lose the freedom of speech, as it is written in the Constitutional Act of the Kingdom of Denmark. Yes there were some people laid off, but anyone is yet to be prosecuted. Proud of what we currently have, no thanks - I'm not content, people are still living in poverty in Denmark
TheDean: NATIONALISM, does this answer your question?
I'm not entirely sure, but I'm going to go with no here.
You jerk! THe answer was after that bit. MORON!
I'm sorry for misinterpreting you Dean. But look at your sentence... it look like NATIONALISM is the answer for my question.
Please don't refrain to calling me a jerk AND a moron... if you're going to call me something please make up your mind. And ... Don't call me names please, it makes you sound like an infant
Don't worry about the Dean. He's definitely not a Man so I guess this is the flame tactics he's got to resort to. He was complaining early about bringing the Man Laws up again so couldn't resist doing it again.
It makes me think of symbology. Not that anyone is still talking about it, but I had to drive to the bank and then go drop off my rent. I was still thinking about it.
The Queen. Elegant splendour, tradition and style that has lasted for many, many years. Say what you like about Republics and so on, monarchy is a very stable system. Constituional monarchy all the more so. Another note- The spending on the maintaining of the Royal Familiy is miniscule when one considers the money they bring to this nation in terms of tourism alone.
The NHS: While it may be a little wobby (Thanks to the Bitch Thatcher's depredations) it still represents a guarantor, a security, an assurance that all Britons will be looked after by the State with their interests at heart in times of pain, rather than relying on the goodwill of companies and the market.
Economics: We invented it. Smith laid down capitalism, in all it's middle-of the road glory. Keynes refined it, purging off all the valueless addenda (Laizzaiz-faire, anyone? Bleurgh) that had somehow become attached to Smith's original doctrine.
Tolerance: Britain has often been the refuge of those fleeing oppression, and terror, and war (that often we started), and thus, is good.
Socialism: For making it work.
Empire: Using main force to spread civilisation. Instant win.
Saving the world from Germany: Yes, the Yanks and the Russians helped, but we willingly sold off our Empire to finance those wars.
So yes, I'd describe myself as both nationalist and patriotic. No racial strings attached. Assuming nationalism to be equivocal or indeed a carrier of racism is much like assuming that liberalism is precursor to Stalinism.
Tolerance: Britain has often been the refuge of those fleeing oppression, and terror, and war (that often we started), and thus, is good.
Socialism: For making it work.
Empire: Using main force to spread civilisation. Instant win.
Saving the world from Germany: Yes, the Yanks and the Russians helped, but we willingly sold off our Empire to finance those wars.
Seconded.
It was Britain that held the line before the Yanks got there arses into gear for WW2. If we'd lost the Battle of Britain then the odds of America ploughing in are low. It's much more likely they'd have just called a truce with Germany and do something about the Pacific.
That battle was amazing, just for the tiny numbers and unbelievable closeness. Less than 2,000 aircraft on the British side versus clear over 4,000 on the German. The British ended up sustaining 500 aircrew casualties and 27,000 civilian. The Germans lost 5 times that number of aircrew. All without the help of Ben Afflect and Matt Damon thank you very much Michael Bay.
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
Tolerance: Britain has often been the refuge of those fleeing oppression, and terror, and war (that often we started), and thus, is good.
Socialism: For making it work.
Empire: Using main force to spread civilisation. Instant win.
Saving the world from Germany: Yes, the Yanks and the Russians helped, but we willingly sold off our Empire to finance those wars.
Seconded.
It was Britain that held the line before the Yanks got there arses into gear for WW2. If we'd lost the Battle of Britain then the odds of America ploughing in are low. It's much more likely they'd have just called a truce with Germany and do something about the Pacific.
That battle was amazing, just for the tiny numbers and unbelievable closeness. Less than 2,000 aircraft on the British side versus clear over 4,000 on the German. The British ended up sustaining 500 aircrew casualties and 27,000 civilian. The Germans lost 5 times that number of aircrew. All without the help of Ben Afflect and Matt Damon thank you very much Michael Bay.
To be honest a bit of smart planning and with only one front to fight on Germany probably could have had the Russians, or at least driven them into a stalemate. The Germans basically cut through the Russian until Leningrad. (Yes I know it's all more complicated than that but without Britain, US and the Commonwealth to worry about it could have gone the other way).
To be honest a bit of smart planning and with only one front to fight on Germany probably could have had the Russians, or at least driven them into a stalemate. The Germans basically cut through the Russian until Leningrad. (Yes I know it's all more complicated than that but without Britain, US and the Commonwealth to worry about it could have gone the other way).
Should Have listened to Paton, and after we beat the Germans we should have push all the way to motherland...
TomNook: Unlike a lot of my fellow US citizens, I'm not ashamed of my country. I'm happy and proud to live here.
I live in the USA, and Iam not ashamed of my nation, anyone who is ashamed of the US is a retard and should go live in 3rd world country for a week and then you can ask them that question.
TheDean: what i mean is that every country is a place w/ ppl in it. i have no loyalty to one more than others.
Thats a fair point,
I have Loyalty to the founding Ideals of my nation. We may not always reach these Stout after ideals all the time, but at least we have goals. Any man no matter the color of his skin, the beliefs he my hold, or the creed he maybe, If he is a Citizen of my country, and supports the same ideals, I support him.
However I would never force my ideals on to people.... Some people seem to fail at this idea.
Thst makes perfect sense to me, and for that i knight ye. I'm not quite 100% sure that i have authority to do that but who cares.
Anyhoo, i understand you, but i like to stretch beyond just a country. I have no loyalty to one particular place because i didn't choose to be here. I'm not saying i don't like it ofr anything, but i didn't control where i was born, so it would be silly to have pride in something i didn't even work to acieive.
TheDean: NATIONALISM, does this answer your question?
I'm not entirely sure, but I'm going to go with no here.
You jerk! THe answer was after that bit. MORON!
I'm sorry for misinterpreting you Dean. But look at your sentence... it look like NATIONALISM is the answer for my question.
Please don't refrain to calling me a jerk AND a moron... if you're going to call me something please make up your mind. And ... Don't call me names please, it makes you sound like an infant
i know, and you're right, i don't usually resort to name-calling but you were rather sacrcasric towards me. I would apologize, but i never do that. I do see what you meant though, but all you had to do was read on.
It went liek this
Part 1: angry shout: NATIONALISM Part 2: asking if what i was aobut to say answered your question Part 3: the answer
TheDean: what i mean is that every country is a place w/ ppl in it. i have no loyalty to one more than others.
Thats a fair point,
I have Loyalty to the founding Ideals of my nation. We may not always reach these Stout after ideals all the time, but at least we have goals. Any man no matter the color of his skin, the beliefs he my hold, or the creed he maybe, If he is a Citizen of my country, and supports the same ideals, I support him.
However I would never force my ideals on to people.... Some people seem to fail at this idea.
Thst makes perfect sense to me, and for that i knight ye. I'm not quite 100% sure that i have authority to do that but who cares.
Anyhoo, i understand you, but i like to stretch beyond just a country. I have no loyalty to one particular place because i didn't choose to be here. I'm not saying i don't like it ofr anything, but i didn't control where i was born, so it would be silly to have pride in something i didn't even work to acieive.
Yes, but your fathers before you worked to make your home and your nation(which can be one and the same if you look at it) a safe place for you. So have pride in the ones who came before you, and pay respect to them. No nation is perfect, but hey you said it yourself, you don't really have a choice where you are born, make the best of it. Make the future better for the next generation in your nation, that is True patriotism.
TheDean: NATIONALISM, does this answer your question?
I'm not entirely sure, but I'm going to go with no here.
You jerk! THe answer was after that bit. MORON!
I'm sorry for misinterpreting you Dean. But look at your sentence... it look like NATIONALISM is the answer for my question.
Please don't refrain to calling me a jerk AND a moron... if you're going to call me something please make up your mind. And ... Don't call me names please, it makes you sound like an infant
i know, and you're right, i don't usually resort to name-calling but you were rather sacrcasric towards me. I would apologize, but i never do that. I do see what you meant though, but all you had to do was read on.
It went liek this
Part 1: angry shout: NATIONALISM Part 2: asking if what i was aobut to say answered your question Part 3: the answer
I see.. Let's just leave it behind us then, shall we? :)
Am I the only just getting a little smile on my face? The irony in a thread about being concerned about having
TomNook: Unlike a lot of my fellow US citizens, I'm not ashamed of my country. I'm happy and proud to live here.
I live in the USA, and Iam not ashamed of my nation, anyone who is ashamed of the US is a retard and should go live in 3rd world country for a week and then you can ask them that question.
I think it's very important to distinguish between european and american nationalism. Where I think nationalism/patriotism is something deeply situated in most aspects of american society and culture, I think there's a different attitude towards the nationalism/patriotism in Europe.
...but I think that nationalism is regarded as something shameful in the public discourse.
Yet your divisive observation between americans and europeans in inherently nationalistic (if not continentalistic?). It's odd, whenever the discussion of politics occurs with europeans they pride their nationality with not being overly nationalistic "unlike those americans". They always seem to miss the irony.
Us americans have no preconceived notions about the nationalism of other countries besides France. Obama won, Bush lost... in real life you almost have a 50/50 chance of randomly picking an excessively patriotic/nationalistic americanat random.
I'm Canadian, and Canadians don't really know what Canadian culture is (aside from the very definite fact that it is very different from American culture), so there's really no root for nationalism to grow from.
I think it's very important to distinguish between european and american nationalism. Where I think nationalism/patriotism is something deeply situated in most aspects of american society and culture, I think there's a different attitude towards the nationalism/patriotism in Europe.
...but I think that nationalism is regarded as something shameful in the public discourse.
Yet your divisive observation between americans and europeans in inherently nationalistic (if not continentalistic?). It's odd, whenever the discussion of politics occurs with europeans they pride their nationality with not being overly nationalistic "unlike those americans". They always seem to miss the irony.
Not what I meant. I mean it's important distinguish between to two versions of nationalism. Don't you agree that nationalism is conceived differently i the US and EU? If your going to discuss it, you have to specify what we're talking about
many of us Filipinos are nationalistic, especially those who are in the government, the politicians.. the love our country and the countrymen because its where they can get a lot of money from.. corrupt beasts..
In Lithuania, nationalism is very common.Ultra-nationalism is rarer and often confined only to bigger cities.
Lithuanians are a tad more nationalistic than people in most countries, because being nationalist is the only way to remain a unique culture and not be assimilated by another nation (and culture), such as Poland and Russia. Lithuanian history also gives us a good reason to be a bit nationalistic. After all, we beat the Teutonic Knights, the Romans, the Russians and the Mongols.
Combined: In Lithuania, nationalism is very common.Ultra-nationalism is rarer and often confined only to bigger cities.
Lithuanians are a tad more nationalistic than people in most countries, because being nationalist is the only way to remain a unique culture and not be assimilated by another nation (and culture), such as Poland and Russia. Lithuanian history also gives us a good reason to be a bit nationalistic. After all, we beat the Teutonic Knights, the Romans, the Russians and the Mongols.
Ummm, Mongols totally kicked your ass mate.
Wikied just to make sure I remember correctly: European vassals
"Grand Duchy of Lithuania, the nominal vassal. However, Mongols under Orda and Burundai successfully invaded southern regions of Lithuania in 1241 and in 1259 (Later Nogai), Jogaila, the Grand Duke of Lithuania and the King of Poland, officially acknowledged Tokhtamysh as overlord in 1382. Mongols of Golden Horde always counted the Lithuanians among their subjects, and Tokhtamysh demanded Lithuanian king to collect taxes from Kiev (then under Jogaila and his successors) for his campaign against the Timurids."
knock 'em out champ