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Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 765 Joined: 9 Apr 2008     | |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 458 Joined: 24 Feb 2008     | The Russians tried a coalition government (Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky); look how well it worked for them! Could Gil DuCeppe be Canada's Joseph Stalin!? This kind of a "bitch-fest" hasn't happened since 1925 with Makenzie King (the guy on the Hundred). It's like Larry and Curly teaming up with Shemp to take out Moe; When will it end? |
On the Record  Posts: 5949 Joined: 7 Mar 2008     |
actually part of their mandate is that but also sovereignty for quebec is part of their mandate, that means quebec will be separate from Canada as for the coalition, well let's see both Dion and Layton lied about things Harper wanted to do on the campaign trail. they lost the election, now being a bunch of sore losers they are trying to steal the government away by hook or by crook. yeah i REALLY want someone like that in power, they call Harper a Canadian bush jr, well sorry to say the coalition is more bush jr like than harper |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2108 Joined: 13 Dec 2007    | This has probably been said, but yeah, we did vote for them. That's why they're the majority, and the Conservatives are the minority. And as for the Bloc, they do want to split the nation but not for a long while, they still want to prove they can lead. And with the Liberals and NDP in the coalition, I think this country will stay together. I am of course thrilled by this coalition. People working together always makes me happy, and it helps when it's for a cause I'm for, AKA taking power away from the Conservative government. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1129 Joined: 11 Dec 2007  | I am all for a coalition, if the governor general decides that the liberals and NDP are fit to run the country together that is. If not, then we will have a wonderful new election, and give minority control back to the conservatives and redo this whole catastrophe. People don't learn, Harper = douchebag, and I personally don't like the way he runs the country. Any party that somehow wins a minority vote without a platform simply amazes me. That is why I am glad that the Liberals and NDP are hopefully going to take control, because my ideal party lies between the two, so huzah for coalition, may you be quick to banish the one known as harper. |
BANNED  Posts: 814 Joined: 23 Apr 2008   | You won't get my vote, I'm in favor of the coalition government and want Harper and the conservatives out of the office. (Since, you know, you were all DYING to know that). User was banned for: Ballad (?) of an ex-goth. (Permanent) |
Anonymous Source Posts: 9 Joined: 30 Nov 2008    | A thread about the coalition has been made already... http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.78454 I'm for it. the conservative's current view on what should be done is horrible. it seems like it would throw us further back into the recession instead of helping |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2492 Joined: 18 Sep 2008     | If I have my canadian politics correct, dion is a nutjob moonbat. Fight the coalition if that whacko is in it. and thats whacko with a nonsilent H |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1416 Joined: 9 Jun 2008   | I say the sooner Harper loses power the better, he is a hypocrite who clearly does not have the best interests of Canada in mind. Best interests of Conservatives, yes, but Canadians, no. Dion is finally nailing him on being more wishy-washy than Kerry, and although I would rather see Layton in charge than him, it makes me very happy that Harper is getting his comeupance. BTW, I voted in my first election this go around, and I happy to say I was able to say I voted for the man who is the most visible representative of Harper's flip-flopping, former longtime Conservative and current Independent MP for Cumberland-Colchester-Musquodobit Valley (say that three times fast!) Bill Casey, who got cast out for voting against Harper's budget when he tore up a oil revenue accord that Nova Scotia and Newfoundland negotiated long and hard to get, even after top Harper man and fellow NS MP Peter MacKay said that no Tory would put booted for voting their conscience. Dion has said publically he would honor the Atlantic Accord, which is a heck of a lot better than we're going to get under Harper! So see ya Stephen! I'd say it's been fun, but who am I kidding? It hasn't. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 1 Joined: 4 Dec 2008 | I felt obliged to respond to this thread, as a fellow Canadian myself. The main reason for the coalition is the creation of a stable (majority) government who, therefore, would quickly be able to take action in this crisis, the recession. The Conservative government failed to get support from other parties, which explains the creation the coalition. By the way, with the support from the Green party, excluding the Bloc Quebecois, the coalition represents 7 000 000 voters compared to 4 000 000 voters for the Conservative. Who said the coalition didn't speak for "we", the voters?
True, but at least Elizabeth May has confirmed she fully supports the coalition. |
On the Record  Posts: 5973 Joined: 7 Feb 2008   |
I'm Left of Center, and THIS is why I'm anti-coalition, because I'm anti Dion and Duceppe. Layton is great when all he can do is talk, that and he's so damn entertaining. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2961 Joined: 21 May 2008  | Well if Micheal Jean decides to close the chamber like Harper wants. Coalition will be twarted. If she doesn't close the chamber till monday good bye Harper. Closing the chamber, sounds like conservative are more worried about their jobs than anything. The sad thing is, this could have been avoided. I dunno when Layton mentionned during the elections the idea of coalition. That's what happens when one ego's takes the tops of things. As for the canadians voted for Harper argument. Actually, Harper got like 34% of the votes. So what about the other 67%?
On which part?
You're comparing a separatist party to a country with a One party regim? |
On the Record  Posts: 5491 Joined: 13 Aug 2008  | Hey, if we had to suffer under Bush and the PATRIOT Act for 8 years, you can suffer a bit too. Apparently the Bush Administration was so bad that the crappy government was contagious. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 772 Joined: 25 Jun 2008  | When enough of the minority opposes a majority, they become a majority in their own right. If you have a majority of those who are not the majority and feel that they are doing something bad enough that they need to be stopped then yes, you voted in enough people to have that happen. Just because they are acting across partisan lines does not mean they are not in the right. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 160 Joined: 16 Dec 2007   | I am a Canadian who comes from the PITS OF CONSERVATIVE SUPPORT (and our one NDP riding to stop it from being a sea of blue, which is kind of hilarious). I support the coalition. Stop fearmongering. This is what democracy is for. I mean heck, the tories had a coalition a few years ago. Did you shout and beg and plead at the government THEN to not allow it? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2768 Joined: 18 Sep 2007  |
Please tell me you're still in school. The plain fact is that Harper screwed up. His economic statement offered too raw a deal to the opposition, gambling that the other parties wouldn't want to go to the polls again so soon with their election funds still depleted. Oddly enough, though, when facing a bill that would've changed how political parties raise funds (in Harper's favour, by the way) the others gave up squabbling amongst themselves and told Harper to sit on it rather than vote to slit their own throats. After this dick move (and, worse, screwing up this dick move) Harper should've made with the apologies... but instead went on the attack, and is trying to step around Constitutional limits to hold on to power long enough to run a string of attack ads against the Coalition and turn popular opinion against it. Never mind the real constitutional crisis he's causing, and the real threat to national unity he's causing by hammering at Quebec MPs every chance he gets... it's that he bungled, horrifically, and is trying to duck out on the consequences of that bungle that has me seeing red. No. The Coalition is how Parliamentary democracies work... stifling it doesn't support our traditions. Indeed, denying it is far less democratic than admitting that you've lost the confidence of the majority of the House of Parliament. -- Steve |
On the Record Posts: 5973 Joined: 7 Feb 2008 | I dunno about this 34% thing folks, my entire friend group is against the coalition and we all voted Green in the last election. Mostly because we... 1. Don't want The Bloc in such an obvious position of power I was REALLY looking forward to the Liberal Leadership change, because that means I might actually be able to VOTE for them next time. Also this screams of a petty ego play by Dion "I'm sad because I lost the election and then the confidence of my party, wah wah wah, now I'm going to form a coaltion and become prime minister anyway, HA HA HA, don't you wish you'd voted for me now?" Yeah, I don't trust a man who is technically going to be replaced in the spring to be prime minister. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2768 Joined: 18 Sep 2007 |
I supported the Liberals in the last election so my opinion may be biased there. Dion's a nice guy, and I think he got a raw deal from his party, but I have to admit that his failure to rally the troops and his allowing the CPC to define the Green Shift as a tax-grab unopposed does reflect poorly on his leadership. But I don't think this is an ego play by Dion. Look closely at the economic update; it's tailor-made to castrate the opposition by cutting all their funding, forcing anti-union legislation down the NDP's throats, screwing the Liberals with women voters by futzing with pay equity... Harper's bill was totally partisan, and short-sighted partisanship at that. (How would the CPC be able to woo anyone dependant upon the auto industry, or women, after that... and some day the CPC may need that funding.) If that update couldn't spark a coalition out of the opposition, then we wouldn't have had an opposition; we'd have had a doormat for one-party rule by a minority party. Set aside your distaste for Dion because he's not going to be there much longer; the Liberals won't let him stay even if he wanted to. -- Steve |
On the Record Posts: 5973 Joined: 7 Feb 2008 | Yet Dion is leading the coalition... But your right, this whole Budget thing was mean spiritedness by Harper. However we did just have an election and I am in favor of letting the conservatives fuck things up in their own right. Mostly because they haven't had a chance yet, the liberals had the whole 90's to screw around, give someone else a turn. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 795 Joined: 16 Apr 2008   | ...Because we all want the carbon tax, right? |
Anonymous Source Posts: 2 Joined: 23 Nov 2008 | Stephen Harper and his circus of political clowns (and, by association, all of their supporters) lost any right to bitch about right and wrong when they tried to unseat the government by voting to take the day off not once but twice. Let me make the clear point here: If it was voteable, every Canadian would vote to take the day off. It's not a matter of confidence, and Harper proved how low he'd sink to make it such. You want petty, irrelevant, utterly wrong governance, look no farther than the Conservatives. Harper broke his own election date legislation because he figured he could get a majority. He's nothing that I want in the leader of my country. The only reason he can win elections is because we have two parties (NDP and Liberal) that have the backbone to try and maintain their own identities instead of uniting for reasons of political expediency. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2768 Joined: 18 Sep 2007 |
Did you actually run the numbers? I would've been paying less in tax under the Green Shift, and even acccounting for price creep on carbon-intensive products I'd have come out ahead on the deal. So yes, I was willing to pay a carbon tax if it meant a bigger cut in my income tax too. -- Steve |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2805 Joined: 23 Dec 2007  | Any political party named 'conservative' is not to be trusted. Remember Maragret Thatcher? |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 795 Joined: 16 Apr 2008 |
The carbon tax is a way for the rich to get richer. Just for the sake of example, if someone was making $1000 and their income tax was $400, the income tax is halved, so they only have to pay $200. Someone was making $500 and their income tax was $200, the income tax is halved, so they only have to pay $100. With the carbon tax, now both have to pay an additional $100. On top of that, that's not even an accurate number. That's just an example. I've seen the numbers, and the carbon tax is actually a sorely bad thing. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 795 Joined: 16 Apr 2008 | Canada was stunned Monday when it was announced that The Stanley Cup will be The cup will be stripped from from 2008 playoff champions the Detroit Red Wings How is this possible, Canadians ask? Well, the Leafs have formed a coalition with eastern conference semifinalists According to current Leaf coach Ron Wilson "the Red Wings have lost the NHL commissioner Gary Bettman is cutting short a European trip to try to |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 109 Joined: 4 Dec 2008  | @OP: This is the same kind of Karl Rove inspired fear mongering that's expected from conservatives. "Don't support the coalition! They're made up of evil frenchies who want to destroy us! Don't support the coalition! It'll mean the end of democracy as we know it!" Fuck you Stephen Harper and fuck your facist party. You've proven nothing except that Albertans have no place being in a position of power for the country. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 109 Joined: 4 Dec 2008 |
This is possibly the dumbest analogy I've ever seen. First off, the teams would have to play the opposing teams AT THE SAME TIME for this to even be remotely accurate. Not to mention you'd have to let the fans say whether the goals are any good or not. This is yet another chain email (I got the same thing in my inbox this morning) by an idiot conservative not smart enough to just "get it". Surprise, surprise. |
On the Record Posts: 5973 Joined: 7 Feb 2008 | That popular vote percentage has been cited anywhere from 30-50%, I'd stop using it as a statistic, apparently the numbers are very wrong somewhere. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2768 Joined: 18 Sep 2007 |
Not in my experience. Then again, I take public transit, don't own a motor vehicle (big credit there) and rent my residence; which takes a big bite out of the tax right there. Add in that I keep my power bills low and the biggest hit I take is buying imported food. The tax credit more than covers it for me, and I'm earning a lot less than anyone in the CAW. Admittedly the Carbon Tax would've been really bad for the Tar Sands development, but then again anything that takes into account the costs of waste processing for that project beyond "dump it in a pond and hope it goes away" hurts it in some way or another. -- Steve |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2961 Joined: 21 May 2008 | Well Michaelle Jean just letted Harper close the chamber. So thank you for ignoring us for 1 entire month. Now you're gonna see Harper play the kind card, kissing babies and bla bla. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2768 Joined: 18 Sep 2007 |
*sigh* CTV and the Globe and Mail just broke that... dammit, now this thing has to hang-fire for another nigh-on two months. That's just not good. All I have to say is that Harper had better crank out one heckuva budget to justify this to me, and that if I have to spend the holidays listening to CPC attack ads I'll burn effigies of the SOB. -- Steve |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3447 Joined: 8 May 2008  |
That is not in the coalition's plans. Neither is closing the Tar sands. The coalition parties compromised, which is what a coalition does. I don't like the fact that the GG let the PM prorogue the House so he can hide from the confidence vote over his budget. I wonder if he will put his sweater back on and get some babies and puppies to hug. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 795 Joined: 16 Apr 2008 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrliDQs1Jps And Stephane Dion looks like a moron... at least here. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2805 Joined: 23 Dec 2007 | Bring me my machinegun, it seems another right-winger has emerged onto my forum. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2768 Joined: 18 Sep 2007 | I meant to post this yesterday, regarding the original post, but had a "senior moment" or something. No petition on the Internet is worth anything other than the paper it's not printed on. No one in government will take it seriously because it's too easy to cheat... and there's no investment in time and effort to set one up, so every crank on the planet can start one and every bored sociopath can lard 'em up with frivilous/false signature. If you really feel that the coalition is that bad, get out of your chair and go start a real petition. One on paper, signed by real, living hands, that one can present with a nicely-heavy thump on the desk of your Member of Parliament. Phoning in your patriotism doesn't impress anyone; going the extra mile for it might. -- Steve |
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This whole event is being made even more complicated by the fact that people don't seem to understand how the Canadian system works. You don't elect a prime minister. You elect an MP. That is it. Those individual MPs can then come together and decide to form a government. If the majority of those MPs belong to an certain party, then that party is assured power.
However, if there is no majority party, then a party can only form a government with the consent of the rest of the MPs, who usually go along with it because they have no better options for the most part. However, if the individual MPs from other parties decide to form their own majority government, then that works as well.
Honestly, when I hear people say "I voted for Stephen Harper, he should be prime minister" I cringe. The office of the Prime Minister doesn't even exist in a written form, it is all based on traditions of, "well, thats the way we've always done it, so lets keep doing that". I can understand how confusing that can be to some people, and I don't blame them. A large amount of Canadian politics is based on unwritten traditions.
The legality of what they are doing isn't really the issue here. What matters is whether or not this coalition government is going to be good for the country or not, and that is what we should be discussing.