Break - my answer to your first question is "I wouldn't mind if nobody stopped them. However, I would be pissed off that they'd tied me up and taken me away from my books/computer. It isn't necessary - I'd be happy to either get on with what I was doing, or leave for a while until they were finished, if the alternative was being killed to be kept quiet. While I would not complain if someone 'stopped' them, I also have no objection to them succeeding in evading arrest, regardless of their 'crimes'".

Your second question - I don't believe in rights. Period. Not the right to be safe from murder and not the right to murder. People should do whatever they want, and I'll only get angry from a "moral" point of view when they lie about it. Obviously I'll get angry from a selfish point of view if what others want prevents me getting what I want, or harms me and so on.

This is why I despise all forms of government. By definition, governments are dictatorships and it pisses me off that they invent lies like universal morality, rights and justice.

ok, so children annoy you and everything that annoys you doesn't deserve food and shelter. way to go. you're certainly making the world a better place there champ. not trying to make children better, just getting rid of them. all sarcasm aside, it's probably a good thing because did you seriously just compare eating candy to violating a woman? I hope to god something very horrible happens to you.

as for your moral code, i highly recommend getting out of your rent free house and hang out with the animals. see how long you survive out there amongst those that dont have any. You cannot claim abhorance for one aspect of the government (eg providing for the needy) and then taking advantage of another system (eg providing for the "needy")

Ah, righto. Out of interest, though, would you aid the police in their capture, out of a sense of revenge? Or would it offend you too much to act in coordination with the government?

Jim - children annoy me and everything that annoys me doesn't deserve any of my money, which is indirectly to say hours of my life.

I take advantage of the goverment because it lets me. If you don't like it, vote Conservative next time.

Break - I'd work in my own best interests. I'd prefer not to sully myself by enabling "justice" to work, but if it saves me a stabbing I will.

and pray, how many people on a daily basis do you think you annoy?

incidentally, and i know i keep going on about this but,

DID YOU JUST COMPARE RAPING A WOMAN TO EATING CANDY?

Question 1: I don't know or care.

Question b: I compared the right to believe rape is good to the right to believe candy is good. However, I did not discriminate between genders. Shame on you.

jim_doki:
and pray, how many people on a daily basis do you think you annoy?

Erm... Why is he supposed to care, I'm wondering?

1: he should care because he's getting paid in the same way orphanages do, it's only fair that he be held to the same conditions that he layed out ie "everything that annoys me doesn't deserve any of my money". by that logic, if he annoys anyone, ever, he shouldn't be getting paid

b: regardless of gender, do you really feel that it's ok for somebody to rape somebody else? I'm only asking because it facinates me that your brain can't distinguish between eating candy and violating somebody else

Always nice to see that i'm not hte crazy one here necro, thanks.

back to the issue at hand, like i said before, report the guy. he needs help, bad. he needs to talk to someone with a degree and possibly some medication.

jim_doki:
Report away my good man

the dude needs help. alcahol counciling for one thing, not to mention he could stand to learn a few social skills. yes, he has a problem, and yes, he might be sick, but his disease has started breaking the law, sexual harrasment and who knows what else when he's not going into the bar

you gotta do something, its not vindictive, its the right thing to do

Yep, report the prick. It's quite obvious why he's in the state he's in and why no-one will give him the time of day.
Report him or fill him so full of booze the odious, thieving little prick doesn't last much longer.

Wait, what? Ignorance? What have I displayed ignorance of?

I have a different way of looking at the world. That doesn't make me ignorant. I guess those guys in that other thread who said McDonalds was better than Burger Kind must be ignorant too, hm?

dude, you compared rape to candy. thats not a new way of looking at the world, thats a gross misunderstanding of how the world works

kailsar:
He's a deeply unhappy person; he's lonely, and no-one likes him. He's also been diagnosed with liver disease, and been told if he doesn't stop drinking, he'll die pretty soon. I do feel sorry for him, but he's a deeply unpleasant person.

Now, I never reported him for benefit fraud. My rationale was that I wouldn't report someone who I liked, I'd just think they were an arse for doing it. So I shouldn't report this guy, just because I can't stand him. It'd just be vindictive.

But one of my co-workers, not the girl who he upset tonight, but someone else who was working, after I had told her about his lifestyle, is going to report him. Without his money, I consider it a serious possibility he'll kill himself. I could probably stop her if I tried, and I don't want a corpse on my conscience, or hers.

I agree with the co-worker, as this man should be reported.

To be blunt: as far as I have noticed, he's an alcoholic, violent, antisocial AND he's a complete dick. He's committing several crimes right there, and just because he's put himself on the road to self-destruction doesn't mean that he deserves your pity. Quite the opposite, really.

Maybe it's against your morals somehow, but a fact is a fact: This man has committed crimes. Report him as such, and the world will be a happier place.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that he SEXUALLY ASSAULTED SOMEONE. Unacceptable, in my opinion.

TheNecroswanson:

jim_doki:
dude, you compared rape to candy. thats not a new way of looking at the world, thats a gross misunderstanding of how the world works

QFT.
Ignorance doesn't always refer to book learning. Your ignorance is in your views. It reeks of that of a man who knows very little of what he's talking about and is just writing to be the rebel.
And yes, while it is an opinion and an opinion cannot be wrong, an opinion can still be ignorant.

To be honest, Molikroth just sounds like a lazy, self absorbed arse who cannot be bothered with others or anything that may affect them.
It feels like I'm stating the obvious, but Rape is the most despicable of crimes and your dismissing it as a bit of a nusiance just shows how up your own ass you are.

Molikroth:
Wait, what? Ignorance? What have I displayed ignorance of?

I have a different way of looking at the world. That doesn't make me ignorant. I guess those guys in that other thread who said McDonalds was better than Burger Kind must be ignorant too, hm?

Please stop, your not helping your case.

Report. Not reporting him is a crime.

@ Necroswanson - an opinion simply can not be ignorant. Ignorance is lack of awareness. The way you say I'm "ignorant", it sounds like you think all opinions that aren't mainstream are somehow misinformed.

EDIT: James - I'm not helping my case? You guys, the judge, juries and executioners of what's morally right, are holding me to trial for disagreeing with your values, and explaining that ignorance and disagreeing are different things isn't helping my "case"?

For the record, I'm not interested in "writing to be the rebel". I believe what I'm writing.

Kailsar - it just occurred to me to ask, why refrain from reporting this guy because you don't like him? Obviously making up things to report is something most people grow out of in primary school, but if you report this, the benefit agency (not sure what it's called in the US, IRS or something?) will obtain proof that he's cheating (i.e. if he's faking a bad leg to get Incapacity Benefit they'll tape him walking without aid or limp) and prosecute.

Molikroth:
Jim - children annoy me and everything that annoys me doesn't deserve any of my money, which is indirectly to say hours of my life.

I'm going to quote Roald Dahl's Matilda here:

"Ach, Children! Terrible, putrid beasts. Glad I never was one."

Seriously, that was the height of hypocrisy. Ethically, what you are saying is that you should have been kicked onto the street with no possessions as a baby?

Neosage: Point. As you already said in the title of the thread, what he's doing is fraud. Its not being smart or clever, he's no different to a con man who worms his way into the life of someone just to take all everything they have. Report him. Welfare benefits should only be for those who need them - the unemployed, the disabled, the orphans and the elderly.

Lord Krunk:

Molikroth:
Jim - children annoy me and everything that annoys me doesn't deserve any of my money, which is indirectly to say hours of my life.

I'm going to quote Roald Dahl's Matilda here:

"Ach, Children! Terrible, putrid beasts. Glad I never was one."

Seriously, that was the height of hypocrisy. Ethically, what you are saying is that you should have been kicked onto the street with no possessions as a baby?

No, what I am saying is people should have had the choice to do that to me. My dad brought up my sister and I alone, and as a single parent got certain benefits such as tax cuts and money from the government. Childless people, or people who couldn't care less about children not their own, should not have to go to work and lose half their income for that reason.

jim_doki:
dude, you compared rape to candy. thats not a new way of looking at the world, thats a gross misunderstanding of how the world works

I'll point out, once again, that the world is a conglomeration of rocks and gases. It has no opinion on matters of morality. Morality is an entirely human invention and not a fact like gravity.

TheNecroswanson:

Molikroth:

Lord Krunk:

Molikroth:
Jim - children annoy me and everything that annoys me doesn't deserve any of my money, which is indirectly to say hours of my life.

I'm going to quote Roald Dahl's Matilda here:

"Ach, Children! Terrible, putrid beasts. Glad I never was one."

Seriously, that was the height of hypocrisy. Ethically, what you are saying is that you should have been kicked onto the street with no possessions as a baby?

No, what I am saying is people should have had the choice to do that to me. My dad brought up my sister and I alone, and as a single parent got certain benefits such as tax cuts and money from the government. Childless people, or people who couldn't care less about children not their own, should not have to go to work and lose half their income for that reason.

Says the leech to the human he sucks off of.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Molikroth:

jim_doki:
dude, you compared rape to candy. thats not a new way of looking at the world, thats a gross misunderstanding of how the world works

I'll point out, once again, that the world is a conglomeration of rocks and gases. It has no opinion on matters of morality. Morality is an entirely human invention and not a fact like gravity.

Besides opposable thumbs, Morality is what separates us from the animals.

one, its not half your income, its much much less than that
bee, are you seriously saying now you feel that you shouldnt have gotten all the things you got as a child because it was paid for by daddy's benefits?

Molikroth:

I'll point out, once again, that the world is a conglomeration of rocks and gases. It has no opinion on matters of morality. Morality is an entirely human invention and not a fact like gravity.

and that's an excuse to go out and do whatever you want to whoever you want is it? im sorry, get the fuck off my planet. yes, my planet. I'm human, we worked out a system long ago in which we were the top bannanas here. you dont wanna join us thats fine, dont let the door hit you on the way out you fucking rape condoning tossbag

TheNecroswanson:

Molikroth:
No, what I am saying is people should have had the choice to do that to me. My dad brought up my sister and I alone, and as a single parent got certain benefits such as tax cuts and money from the government. Childless people, or people who couldn't care less about children not their own, should not have to go to work and lose half their income for that reason.

Says the leech to the human he sucks off of.

That doesn't make any sense at all. I've already said the fact that the government is willing to pay for me to not contribute to it is ridiculous. Just as soon as a government appears that wouldn't take away my money without consent and use it for things I dislike, I'll get a job.

EDIT: Jim - no, I'm saying the money that paid for those benefits should not be taken from people's wages before they get into people's pockets. People should be able to choose whether or not to pay for those things.

I explained it in another thread which I'll try to dig up: if you don't drive, you shouldn't have to pay for roads. It's the same principle.

YET ANOTHER EDIT: Krunk - "sapience" is the word you're looking for, not morality. Morality is a by-product of sapience, or self-awareness, as is all thought that isn't directly to do with food, water, reproduction and territory.

Molikroth:

TheNecroswanson:

Molikroth:
No, what I am saying is people should have had the choice to do that to me. My dad brought up my sister and I alone, and as a single parent got certain benefits such as tax cuts and money from the government. Childless people, or people who couldn't care less about children not their own, should not have to go to work and lose half their income for that reason.

Says the leech to the human he sucks off of.

That doesn't make any sense at all. I've already said the fact that the government is willing to pay for me to not contribute to it is ridiculous. Just as soon as a government appears that wouldn't take away my money without consent and use it for things I dislike, I'll get a job.

That's a very childish point of view.

Molikroth:

TheNecroswanson:

Molikroth:
No, what I am saying is people should have had the choice to do that to me. My dad brought up my sister and I alone, and as a single parent got certain benefits such as tax cuts and money from the government. Childless people, or people who couldn't care less about children not their own, should not have to go to work and lose half their income for that reason.

Says the leech to the human he sucks off of.

That doesn't make any sense at all. I've already said the fact that the government is willing to pay for me to not contribute to it is ridiculous. Just as soon as a government appears that wouldn't take away my money without consent and use it for things I dislike, I'll get a job.

Well, seeming as your taxpayer money goes towards your pension, maybe the government should leave you to rot when you hit 50.

EDIT: Seeming as it doesn't benefit you. Yet.

I say report him. He will never get his life together if he's coddled, he has to learn to work and to survive himself and would probably gain a few social skills in the process increasing his sense of self worth as people start not hating him.

TheNecroswanson:
And just like a leech, you'll stay latched onto the host until it burns you off.
Makes perfect sense. You complain and whine about those other leeches, yet you are one yourself. Parasite.

I object to the term leech. A leech latches on without consent: I'm more like a pet cat: for inexplicable reasons, people get a good vibe from providing for other living creatures. If they're that stupid, of course I'll take advantage.

Krunk - I'm against enforced pension schemes too. Assuming I'd worked for sixty years, I'd like to retire and spend whatever years I had left spending money as I pleased, rather than slowly freezing to death on £71 a week and "winter fuel allowance".

Besides which, my ancestry has inflicted on me many genetic flaws which make it extremely unlikely I'll live past fifty. Why should I set myself up for a pension I'm not going to see?

Report him. It's a crime not to and it's just not worth it. Maybe the government can help him or at least, fix the drinking problem.

Right, I think at this point it's best to draw a line under this little discussion. It is rapidly becoming evident that Molikroth is committed to his views, and nothing any of us might say is going to change his mind.

While we might disagree with his point of view, vehemently in some cases, we're not going to achieve anything by continuing to debate. I admit that I'm as guilty as everyone else on this thread, but culture shock, which I believe this is, is a funny thing.

Let's get this thread back on track and leave discussions on applied objectivism for another day.

Combined:
Report him. It's a felony not to and it's just not worth it. Maybe the government can help him or at least, fix the drinking problem.

Is that true in the UK?

Also, is it true that if you walk past an injured person (car accident or whatever) and don't call the emergency services, you're committing a crime?

@ Nilcypher - "Culture shock" was the phrase I've been trying to recall for the past dozen posts. >.<

Molikroth:
Krunk - I'm against enforced pension schemes too. Assuming I'd worked for sixty years, I'd like to retire and spend whatever years I had left spending money as I pleased, rather than slowly freezing to death on £71 a week and "winter fuel allowance".

Nevertheless, a policy that doesn't benefit you any more should be considered void, just because of that? Hypocrite. HYPOCRITE.

Nil, I've seen your post, and I'm dropping it now. Lets keep this orderly, even if this guy's morality is somewhat... flawed.