Why Am I A Bad Person For Like Large Breasts And Sexy Nuns?

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This week I watched the review of Dragon Crown and read the Critical Miss comic about it and there were a lot of people posting about how bad/stupid/disgusting the female body shapes were in the game. And I remember there was a similar uproar awhile ago about that Hitman: Absolution trailer where Agent 47 fights a bunch of stripperiffic nun assassins.

My question is, are you guys saying that if I like women who have large breasts and/or are dress as sexy nuns that I am a bad person?

Its that I do like women with the sort of figure you see in Dragon Crown or Hitman: Absolution, and the feeling I get from these flame wars is that there are a bunch of people out there saying that because I like women with big breasts, or women dressed in sexy outfits that I am bad/evil/immoral. The idea that someone would label me as a bad person just because I have a certain sexual preference makes me angry.

No. You are not a bad person.

The discussion about what possible negative impacts the disproportionate prevalence of such images and attitudes may or may not have upon the reputation of the industry, as well as what they may or may not be saying about the audience for this material (or who the game-makers think their audience is); is a discussion completely removed from what you enjoy looking at.

In real life, I'm a fan of lots of female body types, and if there's one thing, aesthetically speaking, that's a turn off for me, it's a woman who has artificially enhanced her breasts, arse, or face to the extent that they're no longer in proportion. I'm also certainly not against a bit of kink. In the digital realm, a bit of embellishment is harmless in my opinion. However, examples such as the Sorceress from Dragon's Crown are just so overboard that they're ridiculous, and not at all attractive (to me at least).

For me, it's not even the number of stick-thin, ludicrously buxom female images in games that is the problem. The real problem is that, on the opposite side of the coin, too few female characters are allowed to display any sense of agency, distinct personality, or sympathetic goals of their own. You give me a female character who is more than just a pin-up or reward mechanic, someone who I can identify with on an emotional level, and I honestly couldn't care less what you want her bra-size to be, or if you even want to have her wearing a bra at all.

To put it in a snappier sense: The problem isn't that there are too many Sorceresses, it's that there are too few Alyx Vances.

Silverblade:
This week I watched the review of Dragon Crown and read the Critical Miss comic about it and there were a lot of people posting about how bad/stupid/disgusting the female body shapes were in the game. And I remember there was a similar uproar awhile ago about that Hitman: Absolution trailer where Agent 47 fights a bunch of stripperiffic nun assassins.

My question is, are you guys saying that if I like women who have large breasts and/or are dress as sexy nuns that I am a bad person?

Its that I do like women with the sort of figure you see in Dragon Crown or Hitman: Absolution, and the feeling I get from these flame wars is that there are a bunch of people out there saying that because I like women with big breasts, or women dressed in sexy outfits that I am bad/evil/immoral. The idea that someone would label me as a bad person just because I have a certain sexual preference makes me angry.

No.
If there was a fascinating woman who happened to be dressed in a sexy manner in a game I personally wouldn't give two shits, I mean I think it'd be a shame that she dressed that way because almost without exception (almost) sexy clothes are uncomfortable. What does this matter for a videogame character?

Well rhetorical question it means that the character is going out of their way to be sexual, they are purposefully putting themselves in an uncomfortable position in order to be more sexually attractive. Now, sure, videogame characters can't actually be uncomfortable but that doesn't stop the implication. The designers would rather make a pretty buxom lady who is willing to do this than a pretty buxom lady who isn't.

This all misses what I despise most though which is the callous manipulation. If you've ever been out to a club or the like then I'm sure you've seen countless examples of people dressing up for show, almost everyone does it but the levels vary. The ones who look desperate are unlikely to be interesting. If they wear incredibly revealing clothes and walk with a wiggle as much as they can and laugh and bend over as often as possible then odds are it's fake and as such unappealing. I almost always find more attraction in clever people, I like intelligence and confidence and though it requires some semblance of confidence to wear next to nothing it could also use desperation. I rarely find it's the half naked people I look at twice and not because I'm staring. They think you're capable of being so easily manipulated. More fool for you for actually being manipulated.

Anyway, I guess that's why I think you're a bad person. If you find that sort of thing interesting I'm probably gonna think lesser of you. The characters are unilaterally uninteresting and just there for their bodies. I like attractive bodies but the world can do better than that.

There's nothing wrong with sexuality or the expression of it.

People should leave artists be. If you don't like some peice of art go look for something else and if you can't find what you want then become an artist and make the art yourself. It's not the responsibility of the artist to try and improve society.

I just wish people, in general, would get over the childish shame and embarrassment they seem to feel about this stuff. I mean, I bet everyone who posts in this thread is a consumer of pornography, I am, and yet those same people will act - in public - like anything sexualised is some heinous crime.

Hugga_Bear:

Anyway, I guess that's why I think you're a bad person. If you find that sort of thing interesting I'm probably gonna think lesser of you. The characters are unilaterally uninteresting and just there for their bodies. I like attractive bodies but the world can do better than that.

To clarify I don't actually think you're a bad person. Black/white morality is laughably ridiculous to me...I just mean I think the idea of wanting sexualised anything is kinda silly. I want cool everything, which means interesting which means more than just big tits.

I think the whole Dragon's Crown thing is a little misunderstood. It's all an intentional over the top artstyle for everything involved. Males included. It's not like they went LOL TITS for no reason (*cough*DOA*cough)

Oh yeah anyone who says they don't like sexy nuns are lying. Everyone likes sexy nuns. :D

The Wykydtron:
I think the whole Dragon's Crown thing is a little misunderstood. It's all an intentional over the top artstyle for everything involved. Males included. It's not like they went LOL TITS for no reason (*cough*DOA*cough)

intentional stylization or not, it doesn't stop it from being nightmare material

image

the whole "my horrible aesthetically unpleasing artwork is my style" sounds like a 16 year old DA user.

Silverblade:
My question is, are you guys saying that if I like women who have large breasts and/or are dress as sexy nuns that I am a bad person?

Actually, I do recall reading somewhere that there is a slight but not insignificant statistical correlation: according to one study, the larger the breasts a straight man reports finding appealing, the more likely they are to hold misogynistic beliefs.

But that's probably one of those pop-psychology things that doesn't mean what the news story says it does.

Its that I do like women with the sort of figure you see in Dragon Crown or Hitman: Absolution, and the feeling I get from these flame wars is that there are a bunch of people out there saying that because I like women with big breasts, or women dressed in sexy outfits that I am bad/evil/immoral. The idea that someone would label me as a bad person just because I have a certain sexual preference makes me angry.

Well, I can't speak for everyone who has a negative opinion of Dragon Crown or the Hitman: Absolution trailer, but I don't think liking them makes you a bad person. I do think they are stupid and juvenile, and if you like them that means you like something stupid and juvenile. That doesn't mean you are stupid or juvenile, mind.

Personally, what made me dislike the people involved with Dragon Crown was not that they chose to design their characters with such an immature aesthetic, but that they couldn't own up to the aesthetic when challenged and accept the criticism it got them. Instead the artistic designer decided to try and gay-shame someone who criticized his design choices and then hid behind the claim that he made a translation mistake when the intent of his retort was perfectly clear regardless of language.

We all have guilty pleasures, and as long as we're willing to own up to the dumb, shallow things we enjoy without needing to pretend they are anything but dumb and shallow, we can all get on with our lives.

undeadsuitor:

The Wykydtron:
I think the whole Dragon's Crown thing is a little misunderstood. It's all an intentional over the top artstyle for everything involved. Males included. It's not like they went LOL TITS for no reason (*cough*DOA*cough)

intentional stylization or not, it doesn't stop it from being nightmare material

image

the whole "my horrible aesthetically unpleasing artwork is my style" sounds like a 16 year old DA user.

Yeah as a figurine that's bad because well, it's a figurine not in game artwork, there's a huge difference. GOD THAT'S BAD!

Anyway I do like the art in general, shocking as it may be for you to understand. Maybe not the Amazon so much because dem thighs yo' but I have always loved huge dramatic over the top stuff in general. Dragon's Crown is nothing if not OTT as fuck.

Moth_Monk:
People should leave artists be. If you don't like some peice of art go look for something else and if you can't find what you want then become an artist and make the art yourself. It's not the responsibility of the artist to try and improve society.

That's not the way it works in societies with free speech.

1) The artist gets to make what they want.
2) Everyone who has an opinion about what the artist makes gets to express their opinion. Positive or negative.

That's the social contract. Artists who can't handle that contract should either give up on making art, grow a thicker skin, or (probably the best solution) make their art and avoid reading discussions of their work on web fora.

The videogame industry is MADE of objectifying the female figure. That one or two games draw fire every now and then can only be described as hipocrisy. Final Fantasy boobs are just as large as Tomb Raider boobs, or World of Warcraft boobs. Some games just get all the attention because of how explicit this is made during the marketing bit. Remember the Hitman trailer about the nuns (who feature very little in the actual game) and the gameplay trailer of Dragon Crown. People just foam in the mouth whenever something's announced. But pretty much every game with a female character in it will be, uh, objectifying to some degree. Not EVERY game, but lots and lots of them.

No you're not bad, I too enjoy large breasts and shapely figures, not to the extent of Dragons Crown mind you but still.

The issue really falls down to females feeling uncomfortable with the way women are portrayed in a lot of video games. Characters with little to no personality that are nothing but walking sex objects. If you're attracted to that stuff then by all means be attracted to it but understand females don't necessarily want to play a character that's 80% boobs.

And before the comparison to "buff guys" comes up. Giant breasts don't convey physical power.

MonkeyShone:

Moth_Monk:
People should leave artists be. If you don't like some peice of art go look for something else and if you can't find what you want then become an artist and make the art yourself. It's not the responsibility of the artist to try and improve society.

That's not the way it works in societies with free speech.

1) The artist gets to make what they want.
2) Everyone who has an opinion about what the artist makes gets to express their opinion. Positive or negative.

That's the social contract. Artists who can't handle that contract should either give up on making art, grow a thicker skin, or (probably the best solution) make their art and avoid reading discussions of their work on web fora.

I wasn't saying anything against free speech, buddy.

Of course people can say what they think to art but they should not expect the artist to accommodate to their wishes or that they have the right to tell the artist what they are and are not allowed to create.

Johnny Novgorod:
The videogame industry is MADE of objectifying the female figure. That one or two games draw fire every now and then can only be described as hipocrisy. Final Fantasy boobs are just as large as Tomb Raider boobs, or World of Warcraft boobs. Some games just get all the attention because of how explicit this is made during the marketing bit. Remember the Hitman trailer about the nuns (who feature very little in the actual game) and the gameplay trailer of Dragon Crown. People just foam in the mouth whenever something's announced. But pretty much every game with a female character in it will be, uh, objectifying to some degree. Not EVERY game, but lots and lots of them.

Making something look sexy is not the same as objectifying it. For something to be objectified it has to be that the person is presented as if they are an inhuman thing with no dignity. Even Final Fantasy characters cannot be said to be objectified. Yes, they are sexy but they are also characters with other functions and characteristics than just being there to be sexy. You see.

DugMachine:

And before the comparison to "buff guys" comes up. Giant breasts don't convey physical power.

They might convey sexual power though, which could be something which female members of the audience desire.

You are not a bad person for liking that. The popular perception is that, as a gamer, you are shunned in society because of the portrayal of women in the gaming industry. You don't even have to buy the games - because you identify yourself as a gamer, the negative stigmas the gaming industry has are heaped upon you, because guilt by association.

On a related note and as a question: I have a pink 3DS. Does this make me a bad/weird person?

No, but you are being marketed to with them. That's one level: Female gamers (and other females I suppose, but I don't really care about their opinions on games) largely have to make do with male-oriented games as far as character design is concerned, and they'd like games to be more moderate so they can play them more comfortably. Which is fair enough, but publishers aren't fixing what isn't broke, and that's marketing to males. The next level is within the game, in that this sort of approach to characterisation leads to shallow characters that either look a certain way or do certain things without any personality behind it, and some people (like myself) would rather they put a bit more effort into their characters and would find games more interesting were that the case. So you're not a bad person, but there are some other groups of players who find it annoying that developers and publishers have you in mind most of the time when they make and sell a game.

CrazyCapnMorgan:
On a related note and as a question: I have a pink 3DS. Does this make me a bad/weird person?

It makes you an unusual person. I would go so far to say strange or weird, but those tend to convey negativity or disapproval. You clearly don't care what society thinks of your color choices, which a lot of people find rebellious and threatening.

Also, I wrote the post assuming you are male. Which you may not be; I only just considered it.

Moth_Monk:
There's nothing wrong with sexuality or the expression of it.

People should leave artists be. If you don't like some peice of art go look for something else and if you can't find what you want then become an artist and make the art yourself. It's not the responsibility of the artist to try and improve society.

I just wish people, in general, would get over the childish shame and embarrassment they seem to feel about this stuff. I mean, I bet everyone who posts in this thread is a consumer of pornography, I am, and yet those same people will act - in public - like anything sexualised is some heinous crime.

Hey, when i see the overlarge dicks of sexy muscled men pointing out of their pants and dancing around in front of my face, i'll complain no more!

Veylon:

CrazyCapnMorgan:
On a related note and as a question: I have a pink 3DS. Does this make me a bad/weird person?

It makes you an unusual person. I would go so far to say strange or weird, but those tend to convey negativity or disapproval. You clearly don't care what society thinks of your color choices, which a lot of people find rebellious and threatening.

Also, I wrote the post assuming you are male. Which you may not be; I only just considered it.

I am indeed male. I am also 32 years old. My color choice was inspired because of that "negativity" and "disapproval". Many people, both friend and stranger alike, questioned me about it; often they asked if I was a homosexual. I have a nice little story about the reason behind my purchase, if you'd like to hear it.

Nothing wrong with liking large breasts. Although there is a difference between actual large breasts, and the independently mobile seemingly self aware things of nightmare that are presented in this game. It's kinda like the difference between saying "I like large breeds of dogs" and "I really have a thing for rabid Pit Bulls covered in blood"

As far as the Sexy Nun thing? You have deep emotional issues. Get help or at the very least hire a professional. (Therapist or dominatrix, it really doesn't matter. They cost about he same and it keeps you off the streets and away from the rest of us.)

You're not a bad person. The problem is that liking these things is like masturbating or having sex. There's nothing wrong with it but there's a time and place for it. The thing that bugs me about the usage of these tropes is that more often than not they stuff characters in skimpy clothing and send them off on a battlefield along with heavily armored men. That's just...stupid.

You're not a bad person for liking the cheap tittilation video games send your way because at least they have an abundance of interesting and/or complex female characters to compensate for the overwhelming amount of Tits McGee characters...

Oh, wait...

Moth_Monk:

DugMachine:

And before the comparison to "buff guys" comes up. Giant breasts don't convey physical power.

They might convey sexual power though, which could be something which female members of the audience desire.

The problem with the "its sexual power!" argument is that the sorceress never actually uses it, or is part of her character, unlike say...Bayonetta. The sorceress's boobs aren't there to give her power over anything, or to give her power at all, they're there for eye candy. They don't factor into her character or abilities like the Fighters's or Dwarf's muscles, she could sorcerer without them.

And thats where the creepy "bad person" thing comes into play, the way it's marketed is you're supposed to want to be the Fighter/Dwarf/Wizard because of their power, and drool at the Sorceress/Amazon/Elf because of their physical features (hence why all the male characters have action fighting poses, and all the female characters have sexy stretched out body poses)

OP, I don't think you're a bad person. I actually found the nun's pose, while absurd, a little hot.

At the same time, though, you've gotta recognize that the nun is in a completely submissive position (sexually submissive and conveying weakness). The Amazon, who is meant to be a bad-ass warrior, goes out to fight in what is the most idiotic example of platemail thong bikini I've ever seen.

The Sorceress' design issues are similar, with breasts that flap like flags when casting a wind spell and absurdly huge, not to mention the promo art where she impossibly manages to shove a stave into the crack of her ass. The woman must have packs of fluid in place of a skeleton.

Because ultimately what it comes down to is that the men were designed to look tough and heroic, and the woman were designed to look sexy and enticing. What bugs me out is the fact that the Elf looks cool and interesting without looking like something from a bad H-game, so the artists certainly had it in them. Heck, the cleric/nun/whatever she was would've looked pretty awesome herself if she wasn't put in that stupid pose. They were fully capable of having the women appear as heroic and tough as the male characters but instead decided to go with platemail thongs and Liefeld-esque poses.

Nah, people aren't getting up in arms over the fact that people like sexy figures. People are getting up in arms over (what they perceive) is the devs slapping sexy women in their games to sell more copies.

So no, you're not a bad person for betting horny over people designed to make you get horny.

No, OP, you're not a bad person.

I think the gaming community is just too sensitive these days, and a lot of us seem to think videogames have something to "prove" to the other big mediums out there, so we shouldn't have women of exaggerated proportions in games because reasons.

Remember when games were about having fun, not being politically correct?

MonkeyShone:

Moth_Monk:
People should leave artists be. If you don't like some peice of art go look for something else and if you can't find what you want then become an artist and make the art yourself. It's not the responsibility of the artist to try and improve society.

That's not the way it works in societies with free speech.

1) The artist gets to make what they want.
2) Everyone who has an opinion about what the artist makes gets to express their opinion. Positive or negative.

That's the social contract. Artists who can't handle that contract should either give up on making art, grow a thicker skin, or (probably the best solution) make their art and avoid reading discussions of their work on web fora.

All true. But by the same token, we can take it to...
3) Everyone who has a problem with the artist should also recognize that just because they're louder they're not necessarily more right.
4) The artist doesn't give much of a shit about what people who DON'T help them make money think, they just care about the opinions of the people who DO help them make money.
5) Internet is made of everyone, and none of us ever shut up, ever.

To play devil's advocate; none of the male characters are fleshed out any more than the female characters, if the guys got a full backstory and peronalisties I think people would justified in beating this game with a lead stick. I think the problem is not boobs themselves but the fact that they don't get any agency as people have put it, to me a great game would have an attractive woman and have a great personality. hell it's half of why I enjoy Saints Row.

You are not a bad person, you just have a certain taste. I for one like redheads. The gaming industry does need to stop treating women like idiots though.

If my avatar is any indication, I find women with overly large breasts to be attractive. I believe that they are perfectly fine in video games and in anime because those things aren't real and are just fantasy.

Silverblade:
My question is, are you guys saying that if I like women who have large breasts and/or are dress as sexy nuns that I am a bad person?

Its that I do like women with the sort of figure you see in Dragon Crown or Hitman: Absolution, and the feeling I get from these flame wars is that there are a bunch of people out there saying that because I like women with big breasts, or women dressed in sexy outfits that I am bad/evil/immoral. The idea that someone would label me as a bad person just because I have a certain sexual preference makes me angry.

It's just your body reacting to sexual stimuli.
It's biology.
I would even say that the people suppressing their sexuality out of some misguided sense of morality are only creating problems for themselves because sexuality doesn't just go away if you tell it to. They will always have this voice at the back of their heads saying things like: "Look at her, you want her, don't you?", causing an internal conflict, which will ultimately result in mental damage (and mental damage does lead to physical damage, the brain does affect the rest of the body because it is responsible for the performance of the rest of the body so if it will be in bad shape, so will the body).

As for this shaming of other people for expressing their sexuality, I blame religion for the majority of it (I know, not the most original thing to say but it's true).
The fact is, Abrahamic religion ruined sexuality. Before that, even if you look at Greek/Roman mythology, there were gods specifically responsible for sex and orgies. However, after the Roman empire became Christian, everything went to shit. Sexuality is deliberately shamed in the Bible to make the people feel guilty about it and seek forgiveness, which of course can only be achieved by being obedient to god, represented on Earth by "men of god" (clever little scheme, if I may add).
Things are getting better now that you can actually say "fuck Jahwe and Jesus and the Holy Ghost" and not get killed, but the whole "sex is shameful" mentality is still there. It's ingrained in Western culture because of 1,5 millenium of brainwashing.

Also, don't buy into this "they're nuns, women of god so you can't lust over them" crap.
They're women, they're sexy, your body will react, regardless of what society tells you.
If you're not Christian, you can look and it's just women in sexy costumes, and if you are Christian, those are still women in sexy costumes, not real nuns. Nuns aren't even part of real Christianity (neither are priests and churches for that matter, but that's another topic).

I know this might be incoherent but I hope you get what I'm saying.
The point is, don't care about what other people say about your sexuality.
If anything, it says more about them than it does about you.

when it comes to Dragons Crown:

image

now personally, I'm a bit of the opposite, I tend to like small breasts. Outfits in general dont really matter much to me, a hoodie and sweatpants is the same as say a full latex body suit with so many zippers Michael Jackson would say to tone it down.

Of course, just because of my preference to breast size, I'm considered a bad person automatically by the entire country of Australia since obviously no woman past the age of 18 can possibly have a, b, or c cups.

Then again, in Australia, breast augmentation can be paid for nearly in entirety by the Government since it helps with mental health or something.

Moth_Monk:

DugMachine:

And before the comparison to "buff guys" comes up. Giant breasts don't convey physical power.

They might convey sexual power though, which could be something which female members of the audience desire.

Yes some female gamers may want bigger breasts to fulfill some sort of insecurity they have but it doesn't change the fact that boobs in no way empower you physically when you're supposed to be fighting monsters. If anything they would just get in the way.

sweetylnumb:

Moth_Monk:
There's nothing wrong with sexuality or the expression of it.

People should leave artists be. If you don't like some peice of art go look for something else and if you can't find what you want then become an artist and make the art yourself. It's not the responsibility of the artist to try and improve society.

I just wish people, in general, would get over the childish shame and embarrassment they seem to feel about this stuff. I mean, I bet everyone who posts in this thread is a consumer of pornography, I am, and yet those same people will act - in public - like anything sexualised is some heinous crime.

Hey, when i see the overlarge dicks of sexy muscled men pointing out of their pants and dancing around in front of my face, i'll complain no more!

Then make a game like that? Or get people together and get voices heard you want one made. If one hasn't been made, it's obvious the demand isn't there.

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