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Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 964 Joined: 8 May 2008     | |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1566 Joined: 5 Dec 2007     | I had a friend who was talking about it once. The whole idea is completely insane, exploiting psychological weaknesses to get laid? I believe this takes sexism and the objectifing of wimmen to a whole new level. Even if you don't do it to get laid you are basicly toying with the emotions of another human being, something I find to be...tasteless to say the least. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 559 Joined: 24 Oct 2008     |
Woah, woah, woah.......this isn't my batman cup. |
Paperboy  Posts: 22 Joined: 3 Jan 2009    | So basically your ex screwed you over and now you're obsessed with picking up women and becoming a different person? I dunno what this game is but it sounds pretty pathetic if you're downloading seminars and calling yourself a pick up artist. You'll show her huh, sounds like you're totally over her! |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2487 Joined: 29 Nov 2007    | Whenever I'm around PUA guys they always think that they now have the magic ability to pick up any woman. Since anytime they screw up they just assume the girl has issues and move on, this opinion is never proven wrong. And it gets downright painful to be around guys hitting on a girl they have no chance in hell with. Self-confidence or learning to fake it does not, alas, make your actions any better or worse. Just louder. Personally, this video sums up my philosophy on how to deal with heartbreak: |
Muckraker  Posts: 324 Joined: 20 Nov 2008   |
You should read it before you bash it. What you just described is some ignorant fratboy who hasn't read these books. The the Mystery Method is actually the most respectful way to behave in front of a girl you're attracted to. Women are the gatekeepers. They choose who they will have sex with in our society. These books acknowledge and respect women in that role. There are no "magic words" or "mind control" that change this. Using the Mystery Method, the guy will build attraction and will not display any sexual interest(ie- hit on her) until she has displayed interest first. If he fails to impress her, he leaves. The Mystery Method is a forward-thinking and insightful book in the fields of self improvement and sociology. It's not at all about deceiving women with false value. It's about creating genuine value and becoming the type of man that women want more of in this world. Ask me. Quote me. Flame me. Praise me. I love this shit and I'll talk about it all day. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 961 Joined: 21 Dec 2007  | I read that book. My first impression was that it was bullshit. Then I thought I had to learn all I could and finally I realised it was just a good (albeit true) story. Some small things have permeated into my life like the three second rule and counting IOIs. But overall its a story and a fantastic one. Strauss starts as the underdog, learns as an apprentice, has a few victories and losses, equals his masters, goes an adventure in a foreign land, learns more, becomes the greatest, builds a palace for himself and his fellow masters, finds fame, life starts to get chaotic as a subtle new threat enters the scene, finds love, strife between friends and lovers, sacrifices lifestyle and creed for love. If you replaced picking up women with chess or martial arts it would have worked just the same. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1933 Joined: 31 Jan 2008  | Ehh.. It seems a bit iffy to me.. If I was on the dating scene (which I'm not because I have a long term girlfriend - Booyah) I wouldn't even think of using some book. Not seriously at least. I would like to point your attention to the episode of Futurama where Fry eats that sandwich full of worm eggs which make him super great and make Leela totally hot for him. In the end Fry questions whether she is hot for him - or the worms. Now I have not read, heard of, seen or have any interest in this book but wouldn't it be better to.. You know.. Be yourself when it comes to that sort of stuff? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1086 Joined: 25 May 2008   | I just do that kind of stuff my way, although it does usually take a drink first if it's a girl I have no acquaintance to whatsoever (e.g. friend of a friend or some hanging out with people I know) because when it comes to stepping up to a girl in a bar I find interesting I have an absolute lack of stones. Might be pathetic or short-sighted not to try it any other way than I'm used to (by the way I don't always drink when I hit on girls :P) but I feel comfortable with it and I guess that's what matters. Feeling comfortable with the way you're handling the situation. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 857 Joined: 13 Oct 2007  | I read the beginning 100 pages of that book. Interesting stuff. I just can't fake confidence to get a woman to sleep with me. Morally I find it objectionable, and second, I just have shitty self-esteem. But it did open my eyes up to a fascinating world of study, a combination of human sociology, anthropology, psychology, etc. I've read 'The Definitive Book on Body Language' and I've noticed a bit more about how people's actions speak louder than words. I find it interesting about how much you can learn from a person from their handshake, gestures, or speech. But its also opened my eyes to how... same-ish we all are. We aren't as unique as we may think |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 938 Joined: 9 Nov 2008  | I read some of it on a boring afternoon at university. I found it...fascinating. I'm not going to bash the book or anyone who believes it. After all, it probably does work and probably does help people get laid. And even though it doesn't appeal to me all that much, I can understand the desire to have the ability to seduce people at will. It's a form of power and control. Everyone likes a bit of power and control. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 964 Joined: 8 May 2008 | Quite alot of differing opinions on this so I'll address some:
My ex didn't "screw me over", she broke up with me, something that happens to alot of relationships all the time, she didn't do anything silly like sleep with my brother or something, sorry it's not as dramatic as you had hoped:/ In relation to this, I didn't instantly think to go out and get laid, I picked up other hobbies and things to do to keep me occupied whilst getting over my ex, I began to do Parkour for example. Semi related: Just like everyone can be a better version of themselves, everyone has the capacity to get a six pack, this bullcrap fed to us about having the right genes and stuff is nonsense. Granted some people may have better genes than others and maybe able to achieve a six pack faster and easier but it is not above anyone who is willing to work and strive toward getting one. But due to the way society is today(obesity and whatnot)people just can't get one, because they eat crap, even the ones who wish to get a six pack are fed the wrong information. Did you know that even if something has been processed to be made better for you it is still bad for you? Anything processed is bad for you. I bet there are some people on here who did not know that. / semi rant.
I had the same first impression as you, but as I began to actually step back and look when I was in clubs and such I began to realise the going ons in the background, things a "normal" person would most likely not pick up on. I actually commented to my friend(who incidentally the same night showed me him in action)when I first found out that he did it, that he had this aura around him, not an "I'm an all important person, bow before me" arrogant aura but a calm, soothing and powerful aura that just drew people to him, especially girls, that's when I started to really "invest" in learning the "game".
I wouldn't exactly replace picking up women with anything, I enjoy it too much lol but I do do other things alongside it, like I mentioned I took up Parkour, something else I greatly enjoy doing. The common misconception about PUAs too is that they only go out to get laid, this isn't necessarily untrue but the way you hold yourself, reading people, the way you talk and act spill over into everyday activities and pursuits, for example the people I do Parkour with look to me for answers and seek my approval, even though some of them have been doing it longer than me(I'm approaching 6 months on the 11th)they look to me sometimes to help them and I feel I've just adapted and taken on the form of some sort of leader to these guys and it feels good.
You are being yourself. I'll admit when you start out you have to memorise alot of stuff, but only to get you through, once you get out there and continue to do it then you start to inject your own spin and personality into your material and make it your own to suit your situation and your personal style. In the end you are being yourself, you're just being the best "you" you can be. It's yourself X 10.
Right on. If you're comfortable with that then all the more power to you:)
Fake it till you make it;)
Yeah, like I've mentioned already, there's alot behind the scenes going on but alot of it is pretty much the same, or slight variations of each thing that goes on. They aren't all too disimilar which is why I think once you just have the social dynamics down and know your theory it doesn't matter what you say as long as you say it and do it in a certain way it will trigger attraction or whatever feeling you are trying to trigger within someone. I hope I have adequately addressed some peoples' points in this thread. I myself don't go out specifically to just get laid(it would be nice every now and again I won't lie)but stuff like this fascinates me, there is a deep, ingrained psycological side imbued in all of us and all we do and how we interact and it fascinates me to learn about it. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 961 Joined: 21 Dec 2007 |
Sorry didn't realise how ambiguous what I said was. I meant the content of the book. Had Neil Strauss written the same story, but replaced picking up with kung-fu it would have been just as good, because hes a kickass writer and what happened to him resembles the plot of a film or book. But yeah it is important to diversify you interests, infact thats a big part of his book. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 964 Joined: 8 May 2008 |
Ah I get you now:) If anything too alot of the aspects from your other interests can be used in other things, like Parkour teaches you alot about overcoming your fears and various physical obstacles, approaching women is just another obstacle to me, another fear I have to overcome so in that aspect they're pretty much the same. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 961 Joined: 21 Dec 2007 |
Yeah I read it in a couple of days, missed a lot of sleep because I couldn't stop. Needs to made into a film. Edit: I think the rights have been sold and a screenplay is being adapted |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3086 Joined: 13 Jul 2008 | My opinion: Anyone who needs to read a self-help book in order to pick up women probably has some serious confidence issues, issues which are probably better adressed by a psychiatrist than a "Pick Up Artist" shaped like an egg. I mean come on, this is just stupid, there's a book telling us, us un-romantic, vegetating sods, who can't so much as look at a women without bursting into tears and snivelling into our own ragged, dirty sleeves, who are so spectacularily dull that we need a bald, magician look-a-like to tell us how to "pick up" women like they're some kind of possesion, like a sidebag, to make you look "cool" or "succesful", what to do with women. Or at least that's what Neil thinks you are, you pathetic vermin! |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 961 Joined: 21 Dec 2007 |
Firstly its not a self help book, its an autobiographical novel, its written quite well and is a good story. While he cites examples of different individual's techniques and styles, he never says you must do this, he is quite critical about the various ideas and becomes cynical with the entire lifestyle. In fact the ending pretty much rejects/discourages the lifestyle. A lot of PUAs are shown to be needy, manipulative or slightly disturbed. I only liked two people in the book, Style himself and Juggler, who seemed like a nice normal guy and who was aware that some people (Style included) were trying to fill an empty hole in themselves with picking up. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 964 Joined: 8 May 2008 |
Going back to my six pack analogy, we all have it within us to be confident in approaching and being around women, if some people need a book to "believe" in so that they can get that confidence(fake it till you make it baby)then who are we to judge them? I also hate, absolutely hate to bring religion into this too but the Bible(or any religious scripture for that matter)gives people hope, they follow it word for word and worship it, are you calling them wrong for following the(supposed)word of God? We might as well burn all the books in the world that tell us how to cook, dance, meet people, read body language or any instructional how to book on anything because before people learn from any books they were obviously "vegetating sods" weren't they? And you're stating the obvious in the first sentence, self help book? not confident? Um, I thought self help helped you be confident at whatever it is you're helping yourself with so obviously the people who read this aren't confident. Yet there's no such thing as you're either confident or not, there are varying degrees, for example I have no problem approaching women and talking to them, I however am not confident in maintaining a conversation with them, something I can do well with my friends because they're my friends after all, I know them alot better than a random woman on the street. I'm not confident in that. I'm willing to learn and become more confident in maintaining conversation so I go out there and I start conversations and over I get better at it, I get more confident andless "stressed out" about it. Don't tell me you've never had a situation at a new job, or school, or college where you meet new people, it's awkward at first that's for sure, not many people talk to each other, it only takes one person(like myself on many occasions)to get everyone involved, to make everyone feel comfortable, that's a life skill you carry with you to wherever you go, whatever jobs you take, you will meet new people and will have to be confident, there's no substitute. The assumption here(and from many people who I've discussed this with)is that you only use this stuff on women, if you think that then you must be really closed minded, adapting to different situations and scenarios, not every approach you do will be the same, just like not every aspect of a job will be the same, you have to adapt, something this teaches and embeds into you. At the end of the day people can believe what they want to, I'm not trying to convert anyone but at the same time I will be logical and get them to see that it's just about bedding women and it's just about power and control, there's so much more to it if you bothered to read up on it, but no, like many others you've just skimmed the surface and made a judgement straight off and I pity you for that. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 964 Joined: 8 May 2008 |
I don't know. To be honest I think it is, but in the loosest sense possible. It helps you, I would say more indirectly than telling you what to do and not to do. But either way my point still stands about any self help book really. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 961 Joined: 21 Dec 2007 |
Yeah, I guess my statement is that its not like "Picking up chicks for dummies" or something, I see it as a story first.
I did want to get a tan and my teeth whitened after reading it. I also now have a desire to dye my long hair green that I can't stamp out. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2621 Joined: 27 Aug 2008   | You mean pushing down your natural insecurities to interact with people more confidently? I taught myself that without a book. In a dating situation I don't really see the merit. If I was to flip it on my head and I was a girl that had gone out with a PUA/'fake it till you make it' person and found out ... I would, firstly, never want to see them again and, secondly, think a lot less of them as people. The entire point of dating is to get to know a person for who they are, not to evaluate their trained skill sets. Its like entering a cheat code into a game only to make it to the end and get the bad ending screen just because you cheated. Although if you're from Luton I can see how you'd need all the help you can get (go Watford!). |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3086 Joined: 13 Jul 2008 |
My objection was that we, as a human race, have become so numb, so helpless, that now apparently we need a book to instruct us on how to do what previously we had to figure out ourselves. Ever done that before? Now cooking or dancing is somewhat different, as it requires a set method, however picking up women is something that can only really be learnt by experience, by finding what makes you appealing. So, the Bible. I suppose that Neil Strauss can be compared to Jesus too then? No, because Jesus' principles were applicable to all areas of life, were previously he thought that the human race had been suffering. You can't learn how to do such things as "Worship your one true God" by experience, because you don't know about it, which is why the Bible was made, whereas dating, as I said before, has to be learnt by experience, as does the whole principle of self-confidence. A book can't do that for you.
I also agree with the entirety of this post. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 964 Joined: 8 May 2008 |
Fair point:)
First off, congratulations, now realise that not everyone has the ability to do that. In videogames even, let's turn your analogy on its head by using COD4 as an example. Now there's debate about the whole "M16 is a noob gun" thing but people who start afresh have to use the gun, it's one of two assault rifles you get at the beginning so naturally people are going to use it who start out and they will slowly adapt and begin to use new guns once they're unlocked. The M16 is really a "crutch" to get the person into the game, they may suck with said gun but they will adapt and find their own playstyle within the game and that is what happens with anything, not just games or PUA stuff. And lastly I'm not sure how where I live has anything to do with this. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 961 Joined: 21 Dec 2007 |
I wonder how much of "the game" is regional? A lot of the stuff he does seems like stuff L.A. people would fall for. In Australia I'm pretty sure magic tricks wouldn't work and negs would probably get you into a few fights. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1132 Joined: 26 Jan 2008   | Anyone who needs to read a book in order to pick up woman has no personality. Or so i believe i could be very wrong but thats how it seems. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 964 Joined: 8 May 2008 |
Ok, I'm afraid you've lost me, if cooking and dancing require a "set" method then I seriously need to reevaluate my life now.
I never compared him with Jesus, I compared their "teachings".
Though Jesuss' teachings are applicable to all areas of life so are Neils', just that his are abit more recent and upto date with said times. And I've already addressed the experience thing. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 964 Joined: 8 May 2008 |
Only one way to find out. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 961 Joined: 21 Dec 2007 | I think there's some judging of a book by its cover going on here. If you disagree/agree with the concept of PUAs and the culture around it voice your ideas. But read the book before attacking it. I enjoyed it. I don't want to be a PUA. But its a good book.
Why the hell not? I'm up for any adventure. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2621 Joined: 27 Aug 2008 |
If we're sticking with gaming analogies. At the beginning of this year I was a low level Playa with almost no skill ranks in chatting people up, a chronic lack of self-esteem hit points and lets just say my Charisma score would have barred me from choosing Paladin as my character class. So I did some grinding (social sense, not hookers) levelled up a few times and my THAC0 has increased dramatically because of it. I didn't have to use a cheat code or even use the manual. It's pretty obvious you get better at something with practice. There are little tricks you pick up but your confidence builds with interaction. Personally I like the M16, I'm happily capable of using just about everything else (not really bothered about the sniper rifles) but I like using Steady Aim and Stopping Power to be able nail any target I set my sights on as long as I use my wits. I've used the spray weapons a few times but I find you don't pick up to many good hits that way, and I'm not quite skillful enough to do my best with the single shot sniping weapons. Some times I get burned because I'm using the wrong tactic but you learn from this in a natural manner, I don't really want to read a guide on how to play well because I'd rather work it out myself. That might just be what I like, but I suspect people find it more rewarding. For physical and social interaction there is only so much you can read to learn. As for dating I've found that a little bit of confidence in your lack of confidence then managing it isn't a big deal. And as for putting yourself in their shoes I think it's a bit unsympathetic to assume that playing them using well rehearsed psychological tricks is totally fine and dandy. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 964 Joined: 8 May 2008 |
Because I have no money(I'm a student you see lol)and I start back at uni next week:D However, back on topic. Initially I didn't like the sound of what they were doing in the book either but it forced me to take a look at myself and reassess what I wanted versus how I should go about getting it and how I was going about getting it at that moment, I had to change my outlook a huge deal. My goals are still the same, my morals and my ambitions are the same, just the way I'm going about getting what I want in the end has changed, and if anything as a person I have become a whole lot better. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 964 Joined: 8 May 2008 |
I think we're both on different sides of the same coin here. It just depends on the thing you're doing really and the sort of person you are. With me I can either read or watch someone do something(in the case of Parkour)and be able to replicate it. Like with driving, I never picked up a book on it, I learnt everything I know from my dad, my instructor and just going out and driving, no book necessary. Even if I do read a book, like now with PUA stuff I never analyze every word or syllable, I skim read these things because I know a book can only get so far before you have to do things yourself. Now I'm not arguing that yes using a book is kind of sad, analyzing every passage, yes is "sad" but that's not what I do. Some people may do it but then that's their own perogative I suppose, we all learn differently. If I've had a particuarly bad night I might consult it for abit to see what I should've done in the situation I messed up on so I won't mess up again, but I'll soon abandon what the book said and use my own talent, add my own flair to that situation instead of doing what the book says, and that's all I'm trying to get at really. Using a book is good up until a certain point, it is a "crutch" of sorts helping you until you can walk by yourself and adapt and triumph. Not just "The Mystery Method" or any other PUA book but every book is like this, if you're going to say that reading a PUA book is sad and not worth it then maybe we should burn all self help books in existence because they do the same, but how much it affects a person depends on the person and how they learn. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 961 Joined: 21 Dec 2007 |
Yeah I forgot that, I'm a broke uni student too. Maybe later when (here's hoping) we're super rich and can private jet from capital to capital.
Yours seems to be a sensible interpretation of the ideas. I think most of the other posters envision people like Papa and Tyler Durden from the book. The ones I liked in the books where those who had their shit together like Juggler and too a lesser extent Sin. Off topic, do you agree 19 is a weird age? (I'm going through it now also). |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2621 Joined: 27 Aug 2008 |
Technically I hate the burning of any books and would never condone it, technically. As far as I'm concerned outside of technical manuals on how to do stuff safely (tips for runners and how to fix your car, for example) I don't believe in the 'self-help' industry. I very much consider it a gigantic scam run by very smart people to remove money from very gullible people. I hate it when people say "this book changed my life" because all I can say to it is "because your £20 poorer?". |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 964 Joined: 8 May 2008 | Can I say "this ebook changed my life"?. Plus I don't buy books, internet baby lol:P Sorry, lost my train of thought there:(
Leave your hope at the door lol, we will be super rich:D I would love to meet Tyler Durden, Mystery and Style, I think I would just die on the spot from their sheer awesomesauceness lol. Though yeah Tyler is abit weird, I would analyze him and most likely vice versa. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 961 Joined: 21 Dec 2007 |
Just weirdish, I feel way older then I was in high school, but at the same time so young as an adult. I constantly think crap I should have done (blank) in my past, then realise I have a lot of living ahead of me. |
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Sorry to(kind of)steal your topic title TheNecroswanson but seeing it gave me the drive to finally make this topic, I've had it in the back of my head but just haven't been bothered to post it.
Anyway, moving on to the topic at hand.Right so alot of the oldies know of my ex gf plight, this was about 8 months ago now and since then about 2 months ago I've seriously got back into dating again and interacting with girls again. I read the book "The Game" by Neil Strauss(Style)and it has literally changed my life, since reading it I've looked at the world of dating and interactions in clubs, bars etc alot differently. I've befriended a fellow PUA(Pick Up Artist)who is actually on the same course as me so that's lucky and he has been mentoring me on "the ways" of being a PUA and I feel my life has taken a turn for the better in every aspect. I'm getting laser eye surgery in a few days, I'm finally going to pass my theory test and get driving and just a ton of other things that propel me forward into a better future.
Of course I haven't forgotten about my ex, she was my first love after all but if she's off somewhere screwing my "friend" then I don't really care, that's her problem now. I can take a pick of any beautiful woman I want now because I'm single and because I can and it's empowering to say the least:D
I've laden myself down with material, downloaded seminars and lectures taught by "Mystery" and "Style" themselves, I've just taken on a different persona altogether(one which I have yet to think of a name for so if you have any suggestions then fire away lol).
The point of this topic is to see if there is anyone else who has read "The Game" themselves and who have adopted the same lifestyle choice I have. And ladies, what do you think of this "phenomenon"? Do you think it's deceitful, underhand, wrong, etc? What are you thoughts on it? There is a massive psycological side to it all, it's not just about getting girls into bed(a common misconception), I will try and explain as best as I can(after all I am still learning myself).
Thanks in advance. I am now off to work, I'll contribute once I get back:)